Traveller Encampment At The Carrickphierish Road

Freddie59

Since this new road opened it has been widely abused by travllers camping illegaly. A Halting Site ("social housing scheme") has been provided next to the new Blackberry Fields City Council Estate. This appears to act as a magnet to others, who think nothing of appearing along in new vans and jeeps and setting up shop, adjacent to a new estate where young couples are paying huge mortgages.

This road is quickly descending into another Lacken Road and action needs to be taken now by the City Council, who, as usual, appear to pay lip service to the situation. How is there one law for travellers and another for the rest of us? It's ludicrous.

Cabaal

Only way to show the situation up as a joke is get a camper van or something and heade out on some road and setup shop, do what some Traveller's do and leave it go all the way top the court and then move

Sully

I recall reading somewhere that its not the councils fault. They cant force them out. Each time they have to go to court and get eviction notices and if that fails they have to try going to court again to remove them. Something to that affect anyway.

Cabaal

I don't think wishing they were wiped out is not the way to go, at the end of the day its their way of life and certain aspects of that have to be respected,

I have to agree that when they break the law they should be dealt with thje same as anybody else but wishing they were all wiped out is not the way to go.

KevIRL

<snip - removing quoted post>



Wow sweeping generalisation there.

Have you anything to back up how the travelling community 'offer nothing' to society and 'annoy anybody that they come with a mile of'

If anyone from any background breaks the law of the land they deserve to be dealt with accordingly, but making unfounded allegations against one section of the community is unfair.

KevIRL

Cabaal wrote: »

I don't think wishing they were wiped out is not the way to go, at the end of the day its their way of life and certain aspects of that have to be respected,

I have to agree that when they break the law they should be dealt with thje same as anybody else but wishing they were all wiped out is not the way to go.

Well said Cabaal.

dazftw

I live in blackberry fields and even though I hate them being there so so much, I walk past everyday going to town and they dont say a word to me at all. At 1st the little kids did but I dont see them anymore.. I cant see them from my house either and its right at the front of the estate.

The only time ive seen them be a nuisance, was when some traveller pulled up in a van giving out to some other lad about money saying he'll have it tomorrow! I mean screaming the head of eachother

Other than that there only an eye sore and leave there rubbish there.. when there gone. I would like to see them moved but it seems they leave and come back at either end of the road.

longshanks

Cabaal wrote: »

I don't think wishing they were wiped out is not the way to go.

so you think wiping them out is the way to go?? thats an interesting one

Sully

This isnt a thread to bash travellers, call them names or anything else like that.

Topic Cleaned.

daftdave

im not traveller bashing and i did not call them any names, i gave my personal viewpoint on what i think of them, and im sure 95% of people here would agree with what i said, lets just agree on saying that they are a pain in the ass !

longshanks

the final solution, only applied to the pavee's. now there's a thought

Sully

daftdave wrote: »

im not traveller bashing and i did not call them any names, i gave my personal viewpoint on what i think of them, and im sure 95% of people here would agree with what i said, lets just agree on saying that they are a pain in the ass !

Sweeping generalisations are unfair. As I said, please refrain from doing so.

Sully

longshanks wrote: »

the final solution, only applied to the pavee's. now there's a thought

What ya mean?

Jumpy

Sully wrote: »

What ya mean?

Google Hitler and "Final Solution"

He was suggesting ethnic cleansing.

Freddie59

daftdave wrote: »

im not traveller bashing and i did not call them any names, i gave my personal viewpoint on what i think of them, and im sure 95% of people here would agree with what i said, lets just agree on saying that they are a pain in the ass !

Precisely. This is the 21st Century. And you still have these abandoning vehicles in an area not designed for them. But the PC brigade will try to convince you it's a minority. Of course it is.:rolleyes:

What separates them from you and me is quite simple. An address. You and I can be prosecuted and held to account on the basis of it. They can't - because they don't have one.

My solution? Find somewhere to locate them in the Country where they can practice their 'traditions' (what are these traditions BTW?) - keep them there -and let the rest of us get on with our lives.

Sully

Freddie59 wrote: »

Precisely. This is the 21st Century. And you still have these abandoning vehicles in an area not designed for them. But the PC brigade will try to convince you it's a minority. Of course it is.:rolleyes:

I gather you know something I dont. Can you provide me any statistics or whatever that shows the majority of travellers are not law abiding citizens?

What separates them from you and me is quite simple. An address. You and I can be prosecuted and held to account on the basis of it. They can't - because they don't have one.

Ah for god sake, are you suggesting that anybody who doesn't have a fixed location are not law abiding citizens? You can still be prosecuted if your on the go, hence the "No Fixed Address" you often see in the press referring to cases.

My solution? Find somewhere to locate them in the Country where they can practice their 'traditions' (what are these traditions BTW?) - keep them there -and let the rest of us get on with our lives.

The real solution is to give them a different spot to accommodate them in each county. If they abuse it, they should be removed and prosecuted. At the moment, there is **** all space for them and a lot of it is abused. Nobody does anything and the Guards don't want to get involved.

kinkstr

Sully wrote: »

I gather you know something I dont. Can you provide me any statistics or whatever that shows the majority of travellers are not law abiding citizens?

Why dont you provide a statistic that the minority of travellers are the ones that break certain laws. But then again, its hard to gather information and stasticis on a group of people that dont have an address, or those poor ones that have always seem to have just lost the social welfare cards:eek:

daftdave

if they abuse it you say remove them, to where, the carrickpherish road perhaps ?? or somewhere else that they are not wanted but dont care what people think. just because these people i.e the travellers that break the law by parking themselves wherever they feel like,

"i have to explain myself thoroughly in everything i say here as i was given an official boards warning for expressing my personal viewpoint in one of my previous posts on this issue",

back to what i was saying, just because these people have no morals or pride in the area that they live, should we be dragged down to their level of destroying the area around them and then moving on to the next area, thus leaving people who pay huge mortages having their homes devalued and the area they live in defaced.

all the time the government stick to the same laws which do not protect the very people that bump up their coffers by paying our taxes and trying to live like honest people and have a clean area for our childeren to grow in and feel safe........ rant over

Marcus.Aurelius

Its probably time for the PC brigade to grow up and actually make a decision. All this nonsense about "minority rights" etc., just lets people have an avenue to escape important issues in life.

If you have an opinion, you might be forced to do something about it.

Wouldn't want that, would we?

:eek:

Grow up is all I can say TBH.

Travellers cause havoc wherever they go, everybody knows it. Every busybody denies it in case they might have to act on it.

Sully

kinkstr wrote: »

Why dont you provide a statistic that the minority of travellers are the ones that break certain laws. But then again, its hard to gather information and stasticis on a group of people that dont have an address, or those poor ones that have always seem to have just lost the social welfare cards:eek:

There are plenty of court cases if you look around about travellers being in trouble in court. There are no statement to say that EVERY traveller acts like this. Lets be fair!

daftdave wrote: »

if they abuse it you say remove them, to where, the carrickpherish road perhaps ?? or somewhere else that they are not wanted but dont care what people think. just because these people i.e the travellers that break the law by parking themselves wherever they feel like

Away from parking illegally. If there were stronger laws and fines, they wouldn't do it. Saying that, before we do that, they need to be given proper facilities. Its their way of living and we have to respect that.

"i have to explain myself thoroughly in everything i say here as i was given an official boards warning for expressing my personal viewpoint in one of my previous posts on this issue",

You were warned not to generalise.

back to what i was saying, just because these people have no morals or pride in the area that they live, should we be dragged down to their level of destroying the area around them and then moving on to the next area, thus leaving people who pay huge mortages having their homes devalued and the area they live in defaced.

Blame the laws and lack of space for them.

all the time the government stick to the same laws which do not protect the very people that bump up their coffers by paying our taxes and trying to live like honest people and have a clean area for our childeren to grow in and feel safe........ rant over

Yes well its Ireland. All our laws are ****ed. They need to be fixed, and stat.

maoleary wrote: »

Its probably time for the PC brigade to grow up and actually make a decision. All this nonsense about "minority rights" etc., just lets people have an avenue to escape important issues in life.

If you have an opinion, you might be forced to do something about it.

Wouldn't want that, would we?

:eek:

Grow up is all I can say TBH.

Everybody has a right to protection. Including you. If you were black, would you like to be referred to as a "ni**er" all the time? Thats what PC is.

Travellers cause havoc wherever they go, everybody knows it. Every busybody denies it in case they might have to act on it.

Do they though? They have in Waterford (tho I dont think its all of them) but is it the same eveywhere?

Dac51

To the PC brigade on this thread, all I can say is this:

I have lived in Ballybeg for the past 30 odd years and unless you live near a traveller encampment then you have no idea what you are talking about.

Travellers (the majority of them) have destroyed the Ballybeg Link Road which was only built a few years ago. The childrens park on the Ballybeg Link Road has been left unused for the past year as traveller children are intimidating others. Rubbish is simply thrown in the adjacent field which the council are left to clean up. Caravans are parked on the footpath leaving pedestrians to walk on the road. Bonfires are lit on the footpaths causing serious risk to traffic and smoke damage to nearby houses.

And I can tell you that is not the minority that is doing this. It is the MAJORITY of travellers. Ask a traveller where they dump their sewerage. Ask them where they dump their rubbish (I haven't seen any wheelie bins on the link road!). Ask them how they can afford a 08 Lexus if they have no means of income other than social welfare. Ask them why they dump dead horses in adjacent fields.

Tell you what. Let's move them from Carrickphierish and Ballybeg to your area. You'll soon change your tune.

Psychedelic

Cabaal wrote: »

at the end of the day its their way of life and certain aspects of that have to be respected

please explain why we should automatically and without question respect their way of life?

their way of life is basically a big two-fingered salute to our way of life. they don't pay taxes, don't work, don't contribute to community and culture, they have no respect for the law, they destroy our green areas and so on.

now before anyone says this is generalising all travellers, and asks for something to back this up, ask yourself do you have anything to back up that the majority of travellers are in fact good, law abiding citizens who work, pay taxes and so on? ask yourself, are the majority of the travellers you've met, encountered, saw, read or heard about really good people?

KevIRL wrote: »

<snip - removing quoted post>

Have you anything to back up how the travelling community 'offer nothing' to society

do you have anything to back up that the travelling community do indeed offer our society? coz i sure as hell don't know what they contribute.

Woodgate

daftdave wrote: »

"i have to explain myself thoroughly in everything i say here as i was given an official boards warning for expressing my personal viewpoint in one of my previous posts on this issue"

Me too.

KevIRL

This thread seems to have gone down the same road as many others beforehand. The crux is that people state their opinion to be fact. I have no problem with people having the opinion that the majority of travellers are troublemakers, (although my opinion would be different).

The problem that I have, is when posters state matters to be FACTUAL without any facts to back this up

And I can tell you that is not the minority that is doing this. It is the MAJORITY of travellers.

they don't pay taxes, don't work, don't contribute to community and culture, they have no respect for the law, they destroy our green areas and so on.

Travellers cause havoc wherever they go, everybody knows it.

Those are just some examples from this thread of posters making statements as if they were fact with nothing to back it up. This is discrimination and making generalisations.

Now people may throw back to me "well you provide us facts as to why travellers are good people/dont break the law etc", but I dont need to. Why? Because I am not accusing anyone of anything. I am not arguing whether travellers are 'good' or 'bad' but I will argue to the hilt that in our society individuals and groups deserve to be free from discrimination and stereotyping based on sex/colour/race/nationality/ethnic background/culture.

I fervently believe that individuals should not be allowed to flout the laws of the land, and if they do so, then they should face the full consequence of the law.

Just last week there was a similar thread on this forum and the same sort of sweeping generalisations were made. It wasnt right then, and it isnt right now

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055296792

In summary. Saying something like 'I believe all travellers habitually break the law' is a statement of opinion, granted this opinion may be challenged by others. Whereas saying something like 'all travellers habitually break the law' is a statement of fact and as such such should be backed up with facts to prove it.

BBM77

Psychedelic wrote: »

please explain why we should automatically and without question respect their way of life?

their way of life is basically a big two-fingered salute to our way of life. they don't pay taxes, don't work, don't contribute to community and culture, they have no respect for the law, they destroy our green areas and so on.

now before anyone says this is generalising all travellers, and asks for something to back this up, ask yourself do you have anything to back up that the majority of travellers are in fact good, law abiding citizens who work, pay taxes and so on? ask yourself, are the majority of the travellers you've met, encountered, saw, read or heard about really good people?



do you have anything to back up that the travelling community do indeed offer our society? coz i sure as hell don't know what they contribute.

Well said Psychedelic. It drives me mad when I see these “Traveller” spokespeople on the TV; they are a million miles away from the Travellers people in the real world have to deal with. There are far to many excuses made for the criminal and anti social behaviour which is the way of life of 99% of Travellers.

longshanks

KevIRL wrote: »

This thread seems to have gone down the same road as many others beforehand. The crux is that people state their opinion to be fact. I have no problem with people having the opinion that the majority of travellers are troublemakers, (although my opinion would be different).

The problem that I have, is when posters state matters to be FACTUAL without any facts to back this up


Those are just some examples from this thread of posters making statements as if they were fact with nothing to back it up. This is discrimination and making generalisations.

Now people may throw back to me "well you provide us facts as to why travellers are good people/dont break the law etc", but I dont need to. Why? Because I am not accusing anyone of anything. I am not arguing whether travellers are 'good' or 'bad' but I will argue to the hilt that in our society individuals and groups deserve to be free from discrimination and stereotyping based on sex/colour/race/nationality/ethnic background/culture.

I fervently believe that individuals should not be allowed to flout the laws of the land, and if they do so, then they should face the full consequence of the law.

Just last week there was a similar thread on this forum and the same sort of sweeping generalisations were made. It wasnt right then, and it isnt right now

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055296792

In summary. Saying something like 'I believe all travellers habitually break the law' is a statement of opinion, granted this opinion may be challenged by others. Whereas saying something like 'all travellers habitually break the law' is a statement of fact and as such such should be backed up with facts to prove it.

and you just stated that people who claim the pavee's to be trouble (even though they have first hand experience of the said trouble) are making sweeping generalisations. the pot and the kettle, no?
and then some tripe about 'defending to the hilt' freedom of expression etc. from behind a computer screen. ooh aren't you the big che guevara. go defender, go go!!

KevIRL

longshanks wrote: »

and you just stated that people who claim the pavee's to be trouble (even though they have first hand experience of the said trouble) are making sweeping generalisations. the pot and the kettle, no?
and then some tripe about 'defending to the hilt' freedom of expression etc. from behind a computer screen. ooh aren't you the big che guevara. go defender, go go!!

Nope I said that people who claim 'all' travellers or 'the majority' of travellers without facts to back the claim up are making sweeping generalisations. If someone has had a bad experience with one traveller or a number of travellers it still does not mean that 'all' or the 'majority' can be labelled thus. As I said, its fine for someone to have this opinion (althought I would dispute the opinion)

LOL fair enough perhaps I got a bit carried away with the defending to the hilt comment, but those are my beliefs and I stand by them.

Cabaal

Psychedelic wrote: »

please explain why we should automatically and without question respect their way of life?

Why should I respect your life?

their way of life is basically a big two-fingered salute to our way of life. they don't pay taxes, don't work, don't contribute to community and culture, they have no respect for the law, they destroy our green areas and so on.

Ah good good, lets generalizing again...nice one
Since your generalizing I'm not even going to bother

now before anyone says this is generalising all travellers, and asks for something to back this up, ask yourself do you have anything to back up that the majority of travellers are in fact good, law abiding citizens who work, pay taxes and so on? ask yourself, are the majority of the travellers you've met, encountered, saw, read or heard about really good people?

If your going to generalize then your have to back it up its as simple as that,. anyone else here is saying that generalizing is unfair as not all travellers are like this....this is plain to see from life experiences.

As such if your going to generalize then back up this generalization with actual facts.

do you have anything to back up that the travelling community do indeed offer our society? coz i sure as hell don't know what they contribute.

sigh...sweeping statements again, I'm sure the Nazi's thought the same about the jews :rolleyes:

Psychedelic

Cabaal wrote: »

Why should I respect your life?

i never said you should respect my way of life. i asked why we should respect their way of life, when they clearly do not respect ours.

Cabaal wrote: »

If your going to generalize then your have to back it up its as simple as that,. anyone else here is saying that generalizing is unfair as not all travellers are like this....this is plain to see from life experiences.

As such if your going to generalize then back up this generalization with actual facts.

sigh...sweeping statements again, I'm sure the Nazi's thought the same about the jews :rolleyes:

fair enough, i'm generalising to a degree, but please answer me this:

- are the majority of the travellers you've met, encountered, saw, read or heard about really good people?

- what do the travelling community contribute to our society? i'm serious here, i honestly don't know, but if you think they do contribute, please offer some examples.

- the actual facts you look for are stated by people's first hand experiences in this and other threads. go for a drive around our city and you'll see the facts too.

sunnyse

Cabaal wrote: »

sigh...sweeping statements again, I'm sure the Nazi's thought the same about the jews :rolleyes:

I can't believe you're bringing up nazis and jews in a discussion about travellers. It is such a lazy way to put a point across. Do you really think there is any correlation between hitlers final solution and waterford peoples dislike of the habits of travellers.:rolleyes:

Cabaal

sunnyse wrote: »

I can't believe you're bringing up nazis and jews in a discussion about travellers. It is such a lazy way to put a point across. Do you really think there is any correlation between hitlers final solution and waterford peoples dislike of the habits of travellers.:rolleyes:

Sorry I apologize, let me reword some things
"yes I'm sure thats how the Nazi's viewed gypsie's"

I believe gypsie's is a fairer comparison to travelers perhaps?

Is that better, just because you don't like a race of people and personally see them as unhelpful to society doesn't mean they should be all stuck in one place or wiped out.