Traveller Encampment At The Carrickphierish Road

sunnyse

Lets look at this argument from a different prospective. Take another section of our society who live outside the norms.
For example how about litter louts.
I would like to state here I hate litter louts. There may be a minority of litter louts who live happy and productive lives but generally I think they are a boil on the arse of humanity.
So, does that make me racist, does it mean that I generalise.
I don't think so. I detest people who throw their rubbish about or dump their black bags by the side of the road.
I think they should be forced to live within the rules and regulations set by society.
I feel the same way about travellers, they are a boil on the arse of Irish society. I grew up in a council estate of 6 houses, 3 of them had travellers living in them.
The drunken fights and general lawlessness was bad enough but then they brought all their caravan dwelling cousins and relatives to live with them. I can't tell what that was like to grow up with. No-one will ever convince me that travellers"way of life" is worth saving or "protecting"
Mind you that probably puts me up there with Hitler:D:D:D:D:D

sunnyse

Cabaal wrote: »

Sorry I apologize, let me reword some things
"yes I'm sure thats how the Nazi's viewed gypsie's"

I believe gypsie's is a fairer comparison to travelers perhaps?

Is that better, just because you don't like a race of people and personally see them as unhelpful to society doesn't mean they should be all stuck in one place or wiped out.

There is no correlation between gypsies and travellers. Travellers are not a race they are a section of our own society who are unwilling to remain within the laws of that society.

Cabaal

sunnyse wrote: »

Lets look at this argument from a different prospective. Take another section of our society who live outside the norms.
For example how about litter louts.
I would like to state here I hate litter louts. There may be a minority of litter louts who live happy and productive lives but generally I think they are a boil on the arse of humanity.
So, does that make me racist, does it mean that I generalise.

Travellers are almost there own society with Language & customs etc, people that litter are not so thats hardly comparing like with like

I think they should be forced to live within the rules and regulations set by society.
I feel the same way about travellers, they are a boil on the arse of Irish society. I grew up in a council estate of 6 houses, 3 of them had travellers living in them.
The drunken fights and general lawlessness was bad enough but then they brought all their caravan dwelling cousins and relatives to live with them. I can't tell what that was like to grow up with. No-one will ever convince me that travellers"way of life" is worth saving or "protecting"

Yes and I'm sure many people on boards can say they lived or knew people that were non-travellers and lived in council houses and were complete scum, but that would be unfair to all the other people that are not scum that just happen to live in council houses.

At no point did I say all travellers were saints or all keep within the law but at the same time its wrong to label them all as the same when they are clearly not.

The majority of negative comments towards travellers here have been directed towards all travellers

sunnyse

Travellers are almost there own society with Language & customs etc, people that litter are not so thats hardly comparing like with like

I don't think they are ALMOST their own society. They don't have their own language, they have a dirivation of English called 'Cant' that is spoken in places like Tuam or Ballinasloe. It is simply a type of slang that has been created over the years.
As for their traditions, please please fill me in on the traditions of travellers that make them stand out as another society.

at the same time its wrong to label them all as the same when they are clearly not.

What do you mean by "when they are clearly not", I haven't seen any examples of their value to our society. What do you feel we should take from this valuable "society" that would improve our own??

jimmytheman

hi -- are the travellers a probelm there --- i looking at buying an appartment in crraigpharish ---- im worried because they are cheap! 147k

---

makes me fel there is something dodgy ---- any advice????

longshanks

for all those who are saying the pavee's are not criminals, how do ye all feel about people who turn a blind eye to crime? everyone, at this stage must face up to the fact that at least some are criminal, and fairly blatant about it too. they get away with this because they have the backing of all the others on their sites, stretch of road, whatever. they dont ever help the garda shickaloney with any of their enquiries into traveller related crimes.
the world was horrified at the church's cover up of child abuse, brutality etc. people are equally dismissive of parents who claim they didnt know their kids were drug dealers, despite them being umemployed and driving new cars etc.
not the same i know, but folks always seem willing to back up the pikeys. why this is, is beyond me, but for all the posters on this thread backing them up here is a question to ask yourself... would you be happy if your daughter was going out with one?

KevIRL

longshanks wrote: »

for all those who are saying the pavee's are not criminals, how do ye all feel about people who turn a blind eye to crime? everyone, at this stage must face up to the fact that at least some are criminal, and fairly blatant about it too. they get away with this because they have the backing of all the others on their sites, stretch of road, whatever. they dont ever help the garda shickaloney with any of their enquiries into traveller related crimes.
the world was horrified at the church's cover up of child abuse, brutality etc. people are equally dismissive of parents who claim they didnt know their kids were drug dealers, despite them being umemployed and driving new cars etc.
not the same i know, but folks always seem willing to back up the pikeys. why this is, is beyond me, but for all the posters on this thread backing them up here is a question to ask yourself... would you be happy if your daughter was going out with one?

I'm sure some travellers do commit crimes. Just as I'm sure some lawyers/teachers/doctors/priests/unemployed people etc also commit crimes. I feel that anyone breaking the law should be punished if tried and convicted.

However I do believe it is unfair to generalise and say that all travellers or the majority of travellers commit crimes, without having some evidence to back this statement up

longshanks

KevIRL wrote: »

I'm sure some travellers do commit crimes. Just as I'm sure some lawyers/teachers/doctors/priests/unemployed people etc also commit crimes. I feel that anyone breaking the law should be punished if tried and convicted.

However I do believe it is unfair to generalise and say that all travellers or the majority of travellers commit crimes, without having some evidence to back this statement up

its not unfair, not one little bit. (i'm starting to think you just like the word generalise). an example? a friend of mine and his neighbour have dogs for hunting. the neighbour came home a couple of days ago and all his dogs were gone. it was known the pavee's were lurking in the area so my mate and a couple of his friends went to the halting site to ask questions. they were told ' nobody here will say anything but we might know someone who knows something. 200 euros.' the money was paid and my mates neighbour has his dogs back.
that shhit goes on at every halting site/encampment in the country, ask any garda that. it happens with machinery, factory or building equiptment, pets, motorbikes, outboard motors, anything they can get their hands on. why do you think they all drive vans??
by the way, my mates neighbour was lucky to get his dogs back. they often steal small dogs, cats etc, to blood hunting and fighting dogs. the ispca or the gadrdai will tell you that. its pretty well known that when they set up camp on roadsides the local pet population gets decimated.
its about time you grew a pair and admitted some shockingly obvious truths to yourself.
it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck... must be a goose, dont want to generalise

Fajitas!

Is this a thread on the travellers on the Carrickphierish Rd, or a debate on travelling communities on the whole?

Freddie59

I think the statement by Dac51, who has lived alongside the chaos that is the Lacken Road, is adequate proof for everyone here. Here is a person who has endured this - AT FIRST HAND - and yet people still cry 'prove it'.

His statement has been ignored by the PCers on this thread, always first to jump to the defence of these people. I wonder why? I would ask this of the PC brigade - how many of you have lived next to an encampment for thirty years (like Dac51) - and seen the effect on the neighbouring community? Well? Sully?

Freddie59

longshanks wrote: »

its not unfair, not one little bit. (i'm starting to think you just like the word generalise). an example? a friend of mine and his neighbour have dogs for hunting. the neighbour came home a couple of days ago and all his dogs were gone. it was known the pavee's were lurking in the area so my mate and a couple of his friends went to the halting site to ask questions. they were told ' nobody here will say anything but we might know someone who knows something. 200 euros.' the money was paid and my mates neighbour has his dogs back.
that shhit goes on at every halting site/encampment in the country, ask any garda that. it happens with machinery, factory or building equiptment, pets, motorbikes, outboard motors, anything they can get their hands on. why do you think they all drive vans??
by the way, my mates neighbour was lucky to get his dogs back. they often steal small dogs, cats etc, to blood hunting and fighting dogs. the ispca or the gadrdai will tell you that. its pretty well known that when they set up camp on roadsides the local pet population gets decimated.
its about time you grew a pair and admitted some shockingly obvious truths to yourself.
it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck... must be a goose, dont want to generalise

That just about covers it. Reality.

Cabaal

Freddie59 wrote: »

I think the statement by Dac51, who has lived alongside the chaos that is the Lacken Road, is adequate proof for everyone here. Here is a person who has endured this - AT FIRST HAND - and yet people still cry 'prove it'.

His statement has been ignored by the PCers on this thread, always first to jump to the defence of these people. I wonder why? I would ask this of the PC brigade - how many of you have lived next to an encampment for thirty years (like Dac51) - and seen the effect on the neighbouring community? Well? Sully?

Hang on their, my family ran a pub and shop for years and we had awful trouble anytime travellers came to town and took over the local car park and made an awful mess....however there are about two traveller familys that setup shop just outside the town and they don't bother anyone.

They still have there vans and there dogs but they keep the place tidy and infact they;ve even helped out setting and watering plants near where they live, anyone that tells me that these people deserve to be treated as criminals unless there';s actual proof that they've done anything wrong deserves a kick up the arse.

I've seen the affects of what travellers can do first hand from working in the business but I still wouldn't be so short sighted as to tar all of them with the same brush.

If that was the case I'd think anyone that came from the likes of balleybeg are cheap skates, liars & a scumbag just because over the years I;'ve met such people but on the same side of things I've met some lovely people from such places so I judge each person as I meet them...generalizing is just bloody retarded

Its clear this thread has turned into a debate on travelling communities on the whole and its even more clear that some people within this thread will just continue to be short sighted but sure thats their loss in life so its no bother to me

On a on-topic note, if they are illegal parked on the Carrickphierish Road then they need to be moved on...the same as anyone else, if they;ve littered they need to be fined...the same as anyone else.

dazftw

Fajitas! wrote: »

Is this a thread on the travellers on the Carrickphierish Rd, or a debate on travelling communities on the whole?

Yea I think im the only person on here that has to deal with them living by my house. I really dont like them in general there just a nuisance and they litter, walk up the carrickphierish road and you'll see the crap just down in the grass. Theres good and bad ones like just more so bad ones.

Anyway there gone now, or atleast there gone from that end of the road.. There digging up the road again I think it made them move!

CantGetNoSleep

i think its time for a seperate forum for giving out about the gyppos

And what about a poll: have you ever had a positive experience with a kna*ker?

Choices may as well be a) no b) most certainly f*cking not and c) yes-i'm one of those pavee point types who blindly defends travellers (and roma gypsies now too) for robbing people, breaking litter laws, parking wherever the f*ck they want and many more

Freddie59

Cabaal wrote: »

Hang on their, my family ran a pub and shop for years and we had awful trouble anytime travellers came to town and took over the local car park and made an awful mess....however there are about two traveller familys that setup shop just outside the town and they don't bother anyone.

They still have there vans and there dogs but they keep the place tidy and infact they;ve even helped out setting and watering plants near where they live, anyone that tells me that these people deserve to be treated as criminals unless there';s actual proof that they've done anything wrong deserves a kick up the arse.

I've seen the affects of what travellers can do first hand from working in the business but I still wouldn't be so short sighted as to tar all of them with the same brush.

If that was the case I'd think anyone that came from the likes of balleybeg are cheap skates, liars & a scumbag just because over the years I;'ve met such people but on the same side of things I've met some lovely people from such places so I judge each person as I meet them...generalizing is just bloody retarded

Its clear this thread has turned into a debate on travelling communities on the whole and its even more clear that some people within this thread will just continue to be short sighted but sure thats their loss in life so its no bother to me

On a on-topic note, if they are illegal parked on the Carrickphierish Road then they need to be moved on...the same as anyone else, if they;ve littered they need to be fined...the same as anyone else.

OK Cabaal. I think we're all in agreement that ALL trvellers are not as described. Now it's a case of percentages. In my case my positive experiences would be in low, single figures. Having been threatened with having my head opened with a concrete kerbstone you can probably understand where I'm coming from.;)

The reality is that they dump where they like - when they like. And appear to be answerable to nobody. Amazingly, there never appears to be string of caravans (or even one) parked on the way to the Willamstown Halting site. Is there a reason that bye-laws are enforced here and not on the Carrickphierish Road?

And then an image is painted of an underprivileged people, marginalised by society.:rolleyes: Yeah, of course they are.......

The Halting Site at Kilbarry has been rebuilt (at enormous cost) twice (or is it three) times. Have you been to see it lately. It is like the aftermath of a natural disaster. Then cousin Jimmy and co are strung out along the Ballybeg Link Road - with no-one even botering to ove them on.

And people wonder why the majority of the population have a downer on them?

Cabaal

Freddie59 wrote: »

OK Cabaal. I think we're all in agreement that ALL trvellers are not as described. Now it's a case of percentages. In my case my positive experiences would be in low, single figures. Having been threatened with having my head opened with a concrete kerbstone you can probably understand where I'm coming from.;)

Fair enough, just didn't think it was far to tar them as all the same

The reality is that they dump where they like - when they like. And appear to be answerable to nobody. Amazingly, there never appears to be string of caravans (or even one) parked on the way to the Willamstown Halting site. Is there a reason that bye-laws are enforced here and not on the Carrickphierish Road?

The law should apply to them and the Gardai need to enforce these laws, perhaps its worth getting loads of people to keep ringing the Gardai about the illegal parking/camping thats going on?

And then an image is painted of an underprivileged people, marginalised by society.:rolleyes: Yeah, of course they are.......

Some are and some are not, the one's with the 08 vans and BMW's are clearly not

The Halting Site at Kilbarry has been rebuilt (at enormous cost) twice (or is it three) times. Have you been to see it lately. It is like the aftermath of a natural disaster. Then cousin Jimmy and co are strung out along the Ballybeg Link Road - with no-one even botering to ove them on.

And people wonder why the majority of the population have a downer on them?

Need been out in Kilbarry for a long time I think so coudn't comment on what it looks like, perhaps when they rebuilt the halting site they should have started charging them rent for it to keep it maintained?

Freddie59

Honestly, Cabaal - just take a spin out. Then you'll see why people get so infuriated with them. It's an eye opener.

Dac51

KevIRL wrote: »

This thread seems to have gone down the same road as many others beforehand. The crux is that people state their opinion to be fact. I have no problem with people having the opinion that the majority of travellers are troublemakers, (although my opinion would be different).

The problem that I have, is when posters state matters to be FACTUAL without any facts to back this up







Those are just some examples from this thread of posters making statements as if they were fact with nothing to back it up. This is discrimination and making generalisations.

Now people may throw back to me "well you provide us facts as to why travellers are good people/dont break the law etc", but I dont need to. Why? Because I am not accusing anyone of anything. I am not arguing whether travellers are 'good' or 'bad' but I will argue to the hilt that in our society individuals and groups deserve to be free from discrimination and stereotyping based on sex/colour/race/nationality/ethnic background/culture.

I fervently believe that individuals should not be allowed to flout the laws of the land, and if they do so, then they should face the full consequence of the law.

Just last week there was a similar thread on this forum and the same sort of sweeping generalisations were made. It wasnt right then, and it isnt right now

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055296792

In summary. Saying something like 'I believe all travellers habitually break the law' is a statement of opinion, granted this opinion may be challenged by others. Whereas saying something like 'all travellers habitually break the law' is a statement of fact and as such such should be backed up with facts to prove it.

The first example you gave was a comment I posted. I am insulted that you say my comment is a generalisation. Did you not read my post? I have lived adjacent to travellers for the last 32 years of my life. I can back up every comment I made and state them as fact, not generalisations. I have first hand experience of how these people live. Do you?

Of course I do not label every traveller as a criminal or scumbag. There are decent travellers out there who wouldn't bother anybody but I'm afraid the majority have no regards for the law of the land. I would recommend as others already have, for some of the posters here to drive out to the Ballybeg Link Road and the Kilbarry halting site and have a look at the state of the place. Would this be accepted in any other part of the city (as I have asked some city councillors numerous times)?

smaoifs

jimmytheman wrote: »

hi -- are the travellers a probelm there --- i looking at buying an appartment in crraigpharish ---- im worried because they are cheap! 147k

---

makes me fel there is something dodgy ---- any advice????

They're along every couple of weeks, sometimes at the Mount Suir end of the road on either side, less often at the Old Kilmeaden Road end. They're gone (for now) as the road is being dug up and made a mess of again (lost count of how many times this year!). You'll probably find that the bigger nuisance. Seems to be a monthly rotation of digging a hole and sticking traffic lights either side of it to cover a distance that you wouldn't travel overtaking another car.

dazftw

Yea its a nice place to live, you hear/see nothing from the travellers that have the small housing estate thats on the same road. Only thing is its far from town if you have to walk and its a pain coming back all uphill..

ROCKMAN

Personal History with the travelling community.

I boxed for nearly 12 years , Through out that time I have fought and trained with many travellers. And in this environment I must said there was a level of respect between us so called settled people and travellers that I have not seen anywhere else , I do believe that this level of respect was a bit unique to the sport. I still meet some of these lads around and have had a pint and a game of pool with them , and on these occasions have been introduced to their families and I have been show nothing but respect and friendliness.

Then about 4 years old, I worked a job , where I was dealing with anything from 15 to 30 members of the travelling community every night. (The only place that would allow them in. NOT A PUB ) Anyway 99% of these lads I did not know (to young ,18-20 year olds ) at the start , A part small bits of trouble every now and again its was OK. these bits of trouble I think I would have got from a 15+ strong group of 18-20 year old settled lads.
Do I think that because we where the only place in a very large area that would let them in helped OF COURSE ,they would have been on their best behaviour i.e get barred would mean them having nowhere for miles around.

Now
Would I trust a Traveller ?...... NO WAY
Would I like them living beside me ?, well I have three families living on my street ..... WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE BACK OF ONE OF THESE FAMILIES.
Would I like to see my daughter / sister dating one ?..... HELL NO
Do I think a very large % wreck the areas they move into .... OF COURSE ,The evidence is there for everyone to see in the places already mentioned on this thread.
Are they all bad ? NO
Is there a large percentage of travellers committing crimes ? YES OF COURSE

Sully

Freddie59 wrote: »

I'm asking YOU Sully.:p

I dont really have the time to be looking back over my previous posts but IIRC I made a lot of stuff in quotes. They were not direct quotes but a general theme throughout some posts in the past when it comes to travellers threads. Such a theme that I would prefer not to see. Rockman seems to be getting the jist of things. A nice fair and civil post and best of all : on topic!

Freddie59

Sully wrote: »

I dont really have the time to be looking back over my previous posts but IIRC I made a lot of stuff in quotes. They were not direct quotes but a general theme throughout some posts in the past when it comes to travellers threads. Such a theme that I would prefer not to see. Rockman seems to be getting the jist of things. A nice fair and civil post and best of all : on topic!

Well said Rockman. Case closed and proven. And Sully - you have accused me of posting stuff that I didn't. I think the appropriate response is an apology. Nice and civil like.:p;)

Sully

Freddie59 wrote: »

Well said Rockman. Case closed and proven. And Sully - you have accused me of posting stuff that I didn't. I think the appropriate response is an apology. Nice and civil like.:p;)

Feel free to point them out to me..

Freddie59

Sully wrote: »

Feel free to point them out to me..

From your earlier post:

"I dont mind people ranting about a group causing trouble in such and such a location but when it turns into a widespread "Lets bitch about ALL the travellers as they are ALL theiving scumbags and filthy ****ers who need to be exterminated with a flame thrower, shower or using the Hitler method. Ya boy, **** travellers!" you cross the line."

Or maybe you meant to say 'a line has been crossed'..................:o

Sully

That wasnt meant to be taken as a direct quote it was a very rough summary of the type of conversation we try to avoid. The "you cross the line" wasnt intended to be pointed at you, it meant in general.. My bad on phrasing.

Freddie59

Sully wrote: »

That wasnt meant to be taken as a direct quote it was a very rough summary of the type of conversation we try to avoid. The "you cross the line" wasnt intended to be pointed at you, it meant in general.. My bad on phrasing.

Apology accepted.:p:D

Fajitas!

Right, this has nothing to do with the Carrickphierish Rd. anymore - If you want to start a debate on travellers, try After Hours.