Pulled in the bus lane

cagedbiker

Got nailed yesterday on the Stillorgan Dual carriageway and told I'll be getting a fine in the post in the next few weeks for €60.

I know I shouldn't have been in the bus lane but I really do feel it's safer than battling with cars jumping lanes without looking for bikes. I've seen many motorcycle cops using the bus lanes and other cops just ignorning me going up the bus lanes. I don't use the bike lanes unless I'm just going around a car stopped in a yellow box or something.

I don't go flying down the road and most of the time I'm the last one in the line but thems the breaks... I got pulled over with a car that had been following me for about 6 sets of traffic lights so I think the cop may have felt he had to take me in too but three other bikes filtered into traffic just before me and whooshed on, and while I was waiting for him to get finished with the car driver about 6 more flew by without him batting an eyelid...

What is the feeling here on bus lanes? I'm sure this has come up before and perhaps I am harping on about stuff that's been covered to death. I thought I heard something about a report in the UK where they found that in areas where bikes could use bus lanes the accident rate dropped? I know in Madrid bikes are now officially allowed to use bus lanes (they introduced an initiative a few years ago to curb congestion where anyone with a full car licence for 2 or more years automatically got issued a motorbike licence for up to 250cc).

Anyone tell me why exactly bikes aren't allowed to use the bus lane? I really can't think of a logical answer to this...

gabgab

Hey have you a mirrored bubble screen?? Went up towards Raphaela's afterwards, if so I was ahead of you in an Alfa, saw it in my mirror and was going to ask you what happened,

Dont know the actual rules but looks pretty pants to me, and in your defense you were not ripping along,

lord lucan

that's so unlucky. i,like many i'm sure on here use bus lanes quite regularly and (touch wood) i've never been stopped despite passing many cops stationed in the bus lane trying to catch cars using it. if i'm in a bus lane i usually try to keep the speed down,shows you respect what the lane is for and keeps you out of trouble if a cager decides he's had enough of sitting in line and darts out in front of you. all i can think of is you got a cop in a bad mood,the bike cops are great,they've no issues with you being there as do most of the traffic corp. anecdotaly i've heard of regular cops pulling bikes in the bus lane,usually new cops out of templemore but it's unfair to generalise on that.

Dorsanty

On way in this morning following behind a cop car in bus lane . When we reached traffic he went out of his way to move to the left to let myself and another guy filter.

It's a real roll of the dice when you use the bus lanes. Never been pulled yet myself.

I, like lord lucan keep the speed down in bus lanes. So if I do get pulled I might be able to get away with a 'sorry officer, it's my first time' response. I also like to keep the speed difference between me and the air conditioned cages down to a minimum for when they randomly pull out in front.

cagedbiker

mirrored bubble screen, dont' know... I've a drag star cruiser - probably the only one in Ireland with a helmet box on the back (i still can't find lockable saddle bags to leave the wet trousers or spare gloves in when I'm out)

Run_to_da_hills

That’s unlucky, I would nearly fight that in court on safety grounds, Which is more dangerous, weaving through a three foot gap between oncoming traffic in the centre of the road or riding up a bus lane. I encountered a cop on this one before and he let me off. Cops normally keep a blind eye to bikes in the bus lane particularly bike cops. You were probably stopped by the same cop that told me I that it was an offense not to carry my insurance details.

MarkR

cagedbiker wrote: »

Got nailed yesterday on the Stillorgan Dual carriageway and told I'll be getting a fine in the post in the next few weeks for €60.

I know I shouldn't have been in the bus lane but I really do feel it's safer than battling with cars jumping lanes without looking for bikes. I've seen many motorcycle cops using the bus lanes and other cops just ignorning me going up the bus lanes. I don't use the bike lanes unless I'm just going around a car stopped in a yellow box or something.

I don't go flying down the road and most of the time I'm the last one in the line but thems the breaks... I got pulled over with a car that had been following me for about 6 sets of traffic lights so I think the cop may have felt he had to take me in too but three other bikes filtered into traffic just before me and whooshed on, and while I was waiting for him to get finished with the car driver about 6 more flew by without him batting an eyelid...

What is the feeling here on bus lanes? I'm sure this has come up before and perhaps I am harping on about stuff that's been covered to death. I thought I heard something about a report in the UK where they found that in areas where bikes could use bus lanes the accident rate dropped? I know in Madrid bikes are now officially allowed to use bus lanes (they introduced an initiative a few years ago to curb congestion where anyone with a full car licence for 2 or more years automatically got issued a motorbike licence for up to 250cc).

Anyone tell me why exactly bikes aren't allowed to use the bus lane? I really can't think of a logical answer to this...

I suppose if you let bikes use it, then you'll have to let trikes. Then smart cars. Then minis.

Run_to_da_hills

MarkR wrote: »

I suppose if you let bikes use it, then you'll have to let trikes. Then smart cars. Then minis.

A Smart car or trike has more than two wheels :rolleyes:

snollup

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

A Smart car or trike has more than two wheels :rolleyes:

What about a smart car doing a wheelie??!!

Got pulled once in fairview but got off with a warning! Think keeping the speed down helped.

Run_to_da_hills

snollup wrote: »

What about a smart car doing a wheelie??!!

Got pulled once in fairview but got off with a warning! Think keeping the speed down helped.

I have managed to lift the wheel of sidecar for about 100 yards, would that count?

RATM

That was unlucky OP though Id just pay the fine ( begrudgingly ) and move on. I do it all the time in the city center, I call the bus lanes 'my own personal motorway'.

Theres no reason not to let motorbikes use the bus lanes, in fact it makes total safety sense. I think this was muted some time ago but Im not sure if anything came of it.

Though Id be more worried about the implications when they make the city vehicle free in a few years, what does that mean for bikes? Will we be bunched with cars who cant use inner city streets or will they let motorbikes into town to roam freely?

Boom_Bap

I think these comments about keeping at a slow speed in the bus lane are ridiculous.
Its a bus lane, not a motorbike lane and going at slow speeds does not justify motorcycles use of the lane.
If that is the reasoning then if a car is driving slow in the lane, it should be OK.
If you are driving at a slow safe speed, you may be having an impact on a bus behind you who has a schedule to keep.

I am a car driver but I am making these comments as a motorist and an advocate of road safety, I in no way have an issues with motorbikes on the road but I have problems with motorcycles and cars (insert other forms of vehicle here) breaking laws and thinking it's fine to do so and trying to justify it with ridiculous comments.

Dorsanty

Boom_Bap wrote: »

I think these comments about keeping at a slow speed in the bus lane are ridiculous.

It's a sign of being safe not it's legality. i.e. not going at full 80kph or so as cars are only doing 30kph or less is safer way to do it. Still not saying it's 100% legal or that, that makes it right. Just that when the cop pulls you for it he shouldn't be able to do you for dangerous driving too.

Boom_Bap wrote: »

If you are driving at a slow safe speed, you may be having an impact on a bus behind you who has a schedule to keep.

I don't think we where talking about crawling along. More keeping within and below the speed limit.

Boom_Bap wrote: »

I am a car driver

Yes, you are.

Boom_Bap

Dorsanty wrote: »

It's a sign of being safe not it's legality. i.e. not going at full 80kph or so as cars are only doing 30kph or less is safer way to do it. Still not saying it's 100% legal or that, that makes it right. Just that when the cop pulls you for it he shouldn't be able to do you for dangerous driving too.


I don't think we where talking about crawling along. More keeping within and below the speed limit.


Yes, you are.

It 0% legal. A cop should be pulling you in because it is dangerous driving because it is ILLEGAL. No grey area here.
And good work on taking out of context quotes there.

Wossack

Boom_Bap wrote: »

It 0% legal. A cop should be pulling you in because it is dangerous driving because it is ILLEGAL. No grey area here.
And good work on taking out of context quotes there.

how is it dangerous?

I've been waved into a bus lane by a motorcycle cop in the past - its safer then filtering/overtaking, and they know it.

snollup

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

A Smart car or trike has more than two wheels :rolleyes:

Boom_Bap wrote: »

It 0% legal. A cop should be pulling you in because it is dangerous driving because it is ILLEGAL. No grey area here.
And good work on taking out of context quotes there.

Boom_bap, if you think that the law = safety you are sadly mistaken. As I bike rider I can tell you that it is far safer to ride in the bus lanes then take your chances with car drivers that think they own the roads. A good proportion of those driving cars do not watch for bike (pedal or motor).

cagedbiker

Sorry, just to clarify, I'm not trying to get out of paying the fine (did the maths today and it's cheaper than paying for parking alone in town for the week) nor am I trying to say I was right and the cop was wrong - he's just doing his job and I have great respect for the cops in general.

I am of the opinion though that bikes should be allowed to use the bus lanes, the fact that bikes are forced to share the same lanes as cars to me is very dangerous. Bicycles have been given their own lanes as it is evident that they are more at risk in traffic, as are motorcyclists. The infrastructure (for want of a better word) is there with bus lanes and this would mean bikes don't have to weave in and out of traffic or worry about cars hopping lanes without looking, only that we can overtake busses when they pull in at their stops and watch for cars filtering in to turn left at junctions/petrol stations/the like.

On the whole the common wisdom seems to be that most people turn a blind eye to bikes in bus lanes as it is widely regarded as being safer. I'm all for dangerous driving of any kind to be stamped out (excessive speeding, drink/drug driving, weaving in and out of busy traffic like a lunatic) but at the same time what I and other are suggesting about using the bus lanes would mean safer roads and less accidents.

Is this not the case?

Boom_Bap

How is it dangerous....i'll throw out a little example.

One morning (wet) I was pulling out of a housing estate on the Navan Road turning left to get into a lane of traffic heading towards the city. Coming out of the estate I have to cross a bus lane. A car in the lane of traffic allowed space for me to pull in to.
I looked left and it was safe, i looked right, a bus was stopped in the bus lane at the nearby bus stop. It was safe to proceed.
I started to drive out and then a motorcyle came around the bus and down the bus lane and heading straight for me at a reasonable speed. He had to brake hard and I had to accelerate to get out of his way because....wait for it.....he was avoiding traffic by driving in the bus lane.

Now the key here is that I had to avoid him for driving in the bus lane, where he should not be driving. Is this dangerous?

The best thing is that we both stopped to talk to each other and he claimed that I nearly killed HIM. Now I would hold my hands up if I am in the wrong, i'm not a perfect driver and have made mistakes before, but I will accept situations where I make mistakes.

Boom_Bap

snollup wrote: »

A good proportion of those driving cars do not watch for bike (pedal or motor).

I completely agree with this, there is a huge proportion that dont look out, I do alot of cycling also and have to avoid cars doing stupid things!

shrapnel222

a quick question here. i used to live in the UK, and they make it very clear over there that the police have to strictly obey the rules of the road if not on an emergency so are not allowed to use the bus lanes, go through traffic lights, illegal turns, etc... if they don't have their siren or lights going. is it the same case here? because everywhere i go, the police are always in the bus lanes, cars and motorbikes.

if that were the case and if i ever got stopped, i would be seriously tempted to spend the day with a video camera filming every garda doing an infraction when not on an emergency call, and go to court to show them.

Wossack

Boom_Bap wrote: »

How is it dangerous....i'll throw out a little example.

One morning (wet) I was pulling out of a housing estate on the Navan Road turning left to get into a lane of traffic heading towards the city. Coming out of the estate I have to cross a bus lane. A car in the lane of traffic allowed space for me to pull in to.
I looked left and it was safe, i looked right, a bus was stopped in the bus lane at the nearby bus stop. It was safe to proceed.
I started to drive out and then a motorcyle came around the bus and down the bus lane and heading straight for me at a reasonable speed. He had to brake hard and I had to accelerate to get out of his way because....wait for it.....he was avoiding traffic by driving in the bus lane.

Now the key here is that I had to avoid him for driving in the bus lane, where he should not be driving. Is this dangerous?

The best thing is that we both stopped to talk to each other and he claimed that I nearly killed HIM. Now I would hold my hands up if I am in the wrong, i'm not a perfect driver and have made mistakes before, but I will accept situations where I make mistakes.

So if it was a Sunday, and the motorcyclist was legally allowed ride in the buslane, you then would have been responsible?

The motorbike could easily have been a taxi doing the same thing, or a fast cyclist..

bottom line is, you didnt look

faceman

Boom_Bap wrote: »

How is it dangerous....i'll throw out a little example.

One morning (wet) I was pulling out of a housing estate on the Navan Road turning left to get into a lane of traffic heading towards the city. Coming out of the estate I have to cross a bus lane. A car in the lane of traffic allowed space for me to pull in to.
I looked left and it was safe, i looked right, a bus was stopped in the bus lane at the nearby bus stop. It was safe to proceed.
I started to drive out and then a motorcyle came around the bus and down the bus lane and heading straight for me at a reasonable speed. He had to brake hard and I had to accelerate to get out of his way because....wait for it.....he was avoiding traffic by driving in the bus lane.

Now the key here is that I had to avoid him for driving in the bus lane, where he should not be driving. Is this dangerous?

The best thing is that we both stopped to talk to each other and he claimed that I nearly killed HIM. Now I would hold my hands up if I am in the wrong, i'm not a perfect driver and have made mistakes before, but I will accept situations where I make mistakes.

Bus lanes arent bus lanes 24 hours a day (with some exceptions). The same situation could have happened outside bus lane hours or could have happened where the motorcyclist was a cyclist. The motorcyclist should have exercised caution when overtaking the bus. None of us were there so we cant comment specifically. Similarly when making your maneuver you need to continue to follow the required obsersations, windows mirrors etc. You did not have right of way regardless.

Aside from that I fail to see how you can make a claim that bikers driving in the bus lane is any more dangerous than not driving in the bus lane, particularly after the studies done in Bristol, Manchester, Madrid, Scandanavia and Australia. MAG ireland also have plenty of info on this.

snollup

Boom_Bap wrote: »

How is it dangerous....i'll throw out a little example.

One morning (wet) I was pulling out of a housing estate on the Navan Road turning left to get into a lane of traffic heading towards the city. Coming out of the estate I have to cross a bus lane. A car in the lane of traffic allowed space for me to pull in to.
I looked left and it was safe, i looked right, a bus was stopped in the bus lane at the nearby bus stop. It was safe to proceed.
I started to drive out and then a motorcyle came around the bus and down the bus lane and heading straight for me at a reasonable speed. He had to brake hard and I had to accelerate to get out of his way because....wait for it.....he was avoiding traffic by driving in the bus lane.

Now the key here is that I had to avoid him for driving in the bus lane, where he should not be driving. Is this dangerous?

The best thing is that we both stopped to talk to each other and he claimed that I nearly killed HIM. Now I would hold my hands up if I am in the wrong, i'm not a perfect driver and have made mistakes before, but I will accept situations where I make mistakes.

I agree that what that guy did was stupid & he prob going too fast. That said it could just as easily been a cyclist. Anyway, I would believe that at the end of the day it makes no sense not to allow bikes use bus lanes because it would make the roads safer for all users!

Hotblack Desiato

MarkR wrote: »

I suppose if you let bikes use it, then you'll have to let trikes. Then smart cars. Then minis.

Rubbish, utter rubbish. Do you ride a bike?

Run_to_da_hills

How often would you see a bus being held up by a slow motorbike? maybe a moped or a vintage bike but certainly not any of the bikes used by couriers and most bikers around the city.

Some push bikers are the worst culprits for hogging busses and getting in the way of bikers in slow traffic, they have laws to themselves and break traffic lights, weaving in and out of traffic and they think they can get away with it. Push bikers should keep to the left of the bus lane (Some bus lanes are already marked out for cyclists).

In the interests of safety bikes should be using bus lanes and I thought MAG was fighting this case. The only time I could see justification for a biker getting a ticket on a bus lane is if he was acting the maggot or speeding

Hotblack Desiato

It's entirely at the whim of the Minister for Transport. You can argue until you're blue in the face (and MAG Ireland have done, over many years) but if he won't listen, he won't listen.

The arguments that bikes in buslanes are dangerous for cyclists, etc. are totally bogus. Most buslanes are not 24/7 and so are quite legally shared by cyclists, motorbikes and other traffic at those times. There is no evidence of any safety issue at all, except in the heads of the more extreme bicycle activists.

Also I would have thought that car drivers coming in here to stir up arguments was against the Motorbikes charter?

BlueBandit

You were damn unlucky to get fined for it. Same as most bikers on here I use bus lanes all the time and have passed guards no bother, even when they have pulled up a cage or van or whatever. Personally I think bus lanes should be open to bikes (no surprise there) and 99% of guards seem to agree, but as the ad says "there's always one"

Run_to_da_hills

OP, are you sure you weren't not pulled by one of these

cagedbiker

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

OP, are you sure you weren't not pulled by one of these

I think you may be misinterpreting my "pulled" in the bus lane... :eek::D

murphaph

Wossack wrote: »

I've been waved into a bus lane by a motorcycle cop in the past.

Me too.

Boom_Bap

ninja900 wrote: »

Also I would have thought that car drivers coming in here to stir up arguments was against the Motorbikes charter?

Apologies if I have been stiring up arguments, its not my intention.

I would like to also add that I hate seeing cars using bus lanes during operation hours.