The Office of Constable

metman

Sworn or unsworn, officer or staff?

In recent times policing in the UK, as in Ireland, has undergone significant change. In my opinion the most significant aspect of this change has been the introduction of badged civilians afforded powers that used to be the sole preserve of sworn Constables.

Today the argument is made that we do not need police officers to perform many functions historically attributed to them, so we can instead use civilians with police powers to do the job. What this has given rise to, in this country, is a two-tier system of policing where on the one hand you have sworn officers with full police powers, and on the other hand non-sworn police 'staff' who have limited police powers but sometimes wear uniform indistinguishable from that of a police constable (called 'police community support officers' or PCSOs).

Government makes the argument that these police staff have the full support of the community and have proven successful in being the eyes and ears of the police; their role being 'non-confrontational observe and report'. However statistics have shown that PCSOs have had zero impact on crime stats in areas where they have been used and have been cynically used in an effort to recruit higher numbers of ethic recruits. Yet the government sings the praises of these uniformed civilians at every opportunity and continually states how well they've been received by Joe Public. In my view this is a ploy on the part of said government, as funds are diverted from the recruitment and training of sworn police officers and instead pumped into the recruitment of cheaper police 'staff' ultimately creating less police pensions and saving cash in the longterm.

My question (there is a point to all this) is that as a sworn officer I feel the public are conned by moves like the creation of PCSOs, but do the public get the police service they deserve? I see absolutely no value or usefulness in their role and the criminal fraternity know who they are and what they can and cannot do. The only people conned are the public who think they are seeing police officers on the beat, when in fact they are Police staff. Now while you might be thinking, well so what, a police uniform is a police uniform, think about this;

A police officer here takes two years to train at a cost of about £140,000 and takes an oath when he enters the office of Constable. A PCSO gets three weeks training at a fraction of the cost and is cheaper all round for the government. They earn less and are unsworn. This is sadly reflected in some police staff's reluctance to get involved in actions most members of the emergency services accept as part of the job.

PCSOs have begun a full-scale erosion of the office of Constable here, with the introduction of police 'investigators, police 'detention officers', and so forth and so on, all being civilians with limited police powers so as to enable them to perform roles typically the preserve of sworn officers. In my view the government seems to know the price of everything yet the value of nothing when it comes to policing and I take the view that the service afforded to joe public is suffering on account of this.

I have heard PCSOs are being introduced in NI, so don't be surprised when you see them being rolled-out in the Republic, particularly in light of the introduction of the Garda Reserve...

Should we simply dispense with the vocational sworn officers completely in order to save money?

For more, look here.

deadwood

Are these guys given specific roles rather than the more general policing role of a reserve?
I can see benefits for some roles. A person trained exclusively as a detention officer could perform that role adequately and (here's the spin) release officers onto the street (I know, I know..).

I think contracted summons servers, warrant executioners (?) and other largely administrative jobs could be done by any authorised person and save me half my working week being a delivery boy and debt collector. I'd welcome a change in this direction, but I think you're about to put me right Metman?

metman

Police Staff like PSCOs are supposedly a uniform presence on the street reporting crime and anti-social behavior to police officers and dealing with low-level stuff themselves by way of ticket. They are 'non-confrontational', i.e. they do not get hands on, (though this doesn't stop them winding joe public up to the endth degree and then handing him over to a police officer once sufficiently wound up) and do not carry batons, cs or handcuffs (though Transport PCSOs do carry cuffs) and have a power to detain a person for 30 minutes pending the arrival of a police officer. This all sounds fine...in theory. What alarms me, and many other police officers here, is that this role is being expanded by stealth. Some forces here are now putting a PCSO into the passenger seat of a patrol car to save money on crewing. So these non-confrontational civilians are now out in patrol cars responding to emergency calls.

Deadwood I agree with you in so far as I've no issue with civvie gaolers or even front of house staff, or those serving summons etc but I imagine you'll agree that critical roles like uniform law enforcement on the street and emergency response cannot and should not be staffed by 'plastic police' with limited training and powers.

Its how these roles are evolving that concern me and colleagues in the Fed more than anything else. Needless to say a government that is soft on crime like the current one (that won't even pay existing officers what they're owed) is only too happy to encourage more and more civvies to join the job as PCSOs, in order to save money and continue the illusion that money is being spent on policing.

FGR

metman wrote: »

Some forces here are now putting a PCSO into the passenger seat of a patrol car to save money on crewing. So these non-confrontational civilians are now out in patrol cars responding to emergency calls.

This is what I don't like to see happenineg and has always been an issue regarding the Reserve here.

It's not appropriate to have an inadequately trained individual with exceptionally limited powers assisting you in what most consider the vital role of policing.


I dislike having to be alone when doing a tour in the patrol car and although some people might say it's better to have two pairs of hands than one - I would rather handle a situation on my own as opposed to having another individual 'handle it' in a way I would dislike yet subsequently have it put on my plate to deal with paper-wise.

It's not their fault as; like Metman states; it's management and Government penny pinching and also playing a delicate PR game.

Whatever happened to the Governments that supported their police and made hard/difficult decisions to support their force; even when they might have gone against the will of the people?

The future isn't bright. Although it is specifically stated in the code that Reserves are not to ride in the patrol car - it will only take a couple of handshakes and signatures to change all of it.

metman

ForegoneReality wrote: »

Although it is specifically stated in the code that Reserves are not to ride in the patrol car - it will only take a couple of handshakes and signatures to change all of it.

I think those handshakes have already happened judging by boardsbandit's post on the 'Are you in the Garda Reserves' thread?

This is what I'm talking about.

boardsbandit200 wrote: »

Hi i'm in the reserve now for almost a year- i joined when i was 19- i was shy and blisfully unaware of what it was like to be garda. I'm also the only one in my district and had no other reserves to help me settle in.


I really only do saturday nights- to suit me (i go out drinking thursday nights- student nights). My saturday nights comprimise of either foot patrol or i'm in the squad car- it's 50-50 really i've come across a lot of different things- from fights, domestic disputes, car accidents and checkpoints.
I have been with another regular gaurd the entire time throughout any patrols and yes I have had to restrain and hancuff people- I always make sure that my partner knows about what powers I have.

FGR

Thank you for bringing this to my attention, Metman!

(Regular Disclaimer as Always) In case I put forward the wrong impression I wish to state that I hold no disrespect towards the members of the Garda Reserve. They're only trying to do their bit to assist their home community; and are doing their level best with what little they've been given, too.

What I can see about the placing of reserves into the Patrol Car however is like the issue of rigid cuffs/CS Spray, purpose specific cars and the general lack support from Senior Officers/Government - I must say that many of my colleagues and I feel absolutely disillusioned by those who employ us.

It may sound over the top but with all of the negative criticism from the media and lack of positive public re-enforcement from our employers I'm beginning to feel more like a criminal -because- I'm a full time Garda these days.

On Youtube you'll find a lot of videos from US, Australian and some UK Police Chiefs/Commissioners etc who openly support and defend their police during times of controversy..But it seems as if our powers that be have rolled over and allowed the negative criticisms to stand without contest/justification. They only seem to say "We're Changing" in response to it all. That's not good enough. It's as if to say that all of the hard working men and women who've served well before me weren't 'up to scratch' which is very sad.

Apologies for the rant - but my entire point is that with ever increasing civilianisation and further 'change' I am of the opinion that the duties of the Reserve will be vastly increased however also feel that their powers will remain exceptionally limited causing a burden on both the reserve and the full time member.

Fyr.Fytr

Metman how do you fin working with special constables??

They have the full range of powers, in the start need to be accompanied by a reg but after they prove themself may become indipendant, is this the way for the reserve to go?

Dinter

metman wrote: »

I think those handshakes have already happened judging by boardsbandit's post on the 'Are you in the Garda Reserves' thread?

This is what I'm talking about.

The reserve can't drive police vehicles. They've always been allowed ride in 'em though.

metman

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Metman how do you fin working with special constables??

They have the full range of powers, in the start need to be accompanied by a reg but after they prove themself may become indipendant, is this the way for the reserve to go?

In my view if you're going to have reserve police officers out dealing with the public they either need full police training, or to be accompanied by a regular officer at all times.

I've worked with some Specials, not many to be honest, the majority of whom were decent intelligent people who wanted a taste of policing and wanted to do something useful with their spare time. Most of them had good jobs on civvie street and earned a lot more than a regular officer.

My experience overall was that I found the lack of knowledge and confidence in dealing with people a little worrying to be honest. Even Specials with 5 or 6 years in, who considered themselves old sweats, needed closer supervision than new probationers. For this reason where I work, Specials are not used on response teams and instead do community work and public order patrols on the weekends, which I think is a good use of them as a resource.

On the flip side I also found that the Specials attracted the Tackleberry types as well as the 'Walters'; people who couldn't make the grade with the regular recruitment so opted for the Specials, or those who just wanted a uniform and a warrant card but had no interest in actual policing.

I would not feel confident with having Specials/Reserves patrolling independently or responding to 999 calls paired up.

eroo

The only problem(as a civvie) I have with the Garda Reserve is the training.I know of a person who wants to join GS as a full time Garda.That person smokes weed,drives dangerously,sees nothing wrong with getting in fights and even calls Gardai 'Shades'.Now I know that person only wants to join to become a Starsky or Hutch,and had only recently thought about applying because the job has 'good pay and a pension'!Now,I also know this person won't last more than a month in Templemore as they usually weed out those who aren't right for the job or those who can't take the life that goes with the job ... But what if this person applies for the Reserve to become a Weekend Starsky?Although the interview is tough,anyone can put on a face and pretend to be someone they are not.Also,the training is no where near as tough and intense as that required of a full time Garda.

So,could people like I have outlined above make into the Garda Reserve/Met's PCSO and Special Constables?

Fyr.Fytr

metman wrote: »

In my view if you're going to have reserve police officers out dealing with the public they either need full police training, or to be accompanied by a regular officer at all times.

I've worked with some Specials, not many to be honest, the majority of whom were decent intelligent people who wanted a taste of policing and wanted to do something useful with their spare time. Most of them had good jobs on civvie street and earned a lot more than a regular officer.

My experience overall was that I found the lack of knowledge and confidence in dealing with people a little worrying to be honest. Even Specials with 5 or 6 years in, who considered themselves old sweats, needed closer supervision than new probationers. For this reason where I work, Specials are not used on response teams and instead do community work and public order patrols on the weekends, which I think is a good use of them as a resource.

On the flip side I also found that the Specials attracted the Tackleberry types as well as the 'Walters'; people who couldn't make the grade with the regular recruitment so opted for the Specials, or those who just wanted a uniform and a warrant card but had no interest in actual policing.

I would not feel confident with having Specials/Reserves patrolling independently or responding to 999 calls paired up.

Thanks.

I've found through reasearch on forums about specials etc, there seem to be alot of tack's alrite who care more about which torch is best, where to get this pouch for their belt and so on rather then doing the job.

Plenty of walters too, or uniform carriers someone called them more concerned about where they can get free travel and subway discounts with their warrant card then gettting stuck in and giving a dig out.


I really want to join the reserve as hopefully after college ill be joining eighter the guards of dfb so its for the experience as front line emeregency services more then anything, couldnt give a fiddelers about carrying asp and cuffs off duty as some specials seem to think is the be all and end all.

But with all the negative comments towards the system (and not the people which is good) is it worth it or will i be wasting not only my time but that of my babysitters if you will

metman

At the end of the day go for it! If you go in with the right attitude; wanting to learn as much as you can, make some friends with the regs, get stuck in and have a few laughs it'll only do your application to either the Guards or DFB the world of good. Just because the system isn't fantastic doesn't mean the experience won't be!

While I might knock the failings of the Specials system here or the GR there, I won't knock people for wanting to do something valuable with their free time. Policing isn't something I'd do for free, but fair dues to those that are wiling to help out.

Fyr.Fytr

Cheers mate, well it'll be at least august before I can apply so will give it careful thought between now and then

metman

eroo wrote: »

That person smokes weed,drives dangerously,sees nothing wrong with getting in fights and even calls Gardai 'Shades'.

So,could people like I have outlined above make into the Garda Reserve/Met's PCSO and Special Constables?

The type of person you've described usually grows up at some point, or winds up getting nicked.

Provided your man doesn't get into trouble with the local boys in blue, and grows up, then yep, he could have apply for the Guards or any other job you've mentioned.

eroo

metman wrote: »

The type of person you've described usually grows up at some point, or winds up getting nicked.

Provided your man doesn't get into trouble with the local boys in blue, and grows up, then yep, he could have apply for the Guards or any other job you've mentioned.

He has already applied!:eek: