Quotas: Yay or Nay?

Pepe LeFrits

There is no difference. You're creating one that doesn't exist.

It's like saying that the Department of Finance would be legally entitled to create a rule whereby only 25% of a bank's call centre staff on any given shift can be foreign. 'Oh but they are still able to employ them, they just aren't allowed to put them all to work at the same time'. It's complete nonsense.

OhNoYouDidn't

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

There is no difference. You're creating one that doesn't exist.

It's like saying that the Department of Finance would be legally entitled to create a rule whereby only 25% of a bank's call centre staff on any given shift can be foreign. 'Oh but they are still able to employ them, they just aren't allowed to put them all to work at the same time'. It's complete nonsense.

So what you are saying is that players who get sent off cant be suspended? Of course they can because the rules of the game override the rules of work.

There are emplyment rules and there are football rules.

A quota of sorts already exists with Champions League squads, which you are convienently ignoring.

LuckyLloyd

nipplenuts wrote: »

Correct on all counts. Do you suppose the system is letting the young players down, and trails the academies of other European leagues?

From what I have seen and heard about underage football and development here and in the UK as compared to the likes of the Netherlands, France and Italy - we are good on getting players to understand how to compete physically and tactically earlier. But we sacrifice technical development by doing that and we never catch up on that score. And it's the bit that counts cause the other stuff can always be coached and improved no matter what age you are.

In Holland and Italy they don't have kids playing proper competitive matches until they are 13 or so. We have our 10 - 14 year olds kicking lumps out of each other on heavy surfaces in order to satisfy the sporting ambitions of their parents and coaches.

Attitudes are changing, and the various UEFA licensing courses help to instill the right approach and method (teach them to be better, not how to win). And resources are increasing and being made more available.

When the coaches at all ages stop worrying about results and start to nurture kids till a later age eventually the current imbalance in the Premier league will be righted.

Think of the ages Rooney, Fabregas, Gerrard, Scholes, Joe Cole etc, etc were when they came through into premiership first teams. Good enough = old enough = pitch time.

Pepe LeFrits

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

So what you are saying is that players who get sent off cant be suspended? Of course they can because the rules of the game override the rules of work.

There are emplyment rules and there are football rules.

A quota of sorts already exists with Champions League squads, which you are convienently ignoring.

QUOTA SYSTEMS AND THE HOMEGROWN PLAYER RULES

The current legal situation is that any quotas limiting the number of foreigners (who are EU citizens) from club football are illegal. Direct discrimination on the grounds of nationality is expressly prohibited by EU law and the Commission and ECJ have made it clear that any attempt to bring in the type of quota system that existed before the Bosman case would be challenged. As a result, suggestions in 2008 by FIFA that a '6+5' rule could be implemented are misleading. The situation regarding UEFA's Homegrown Player rule is less clear. The rule is discriminatory under EU law but unlike the Quota System it is indirect, rather than direct discrimination. Therefore it is possible that the system could be justified under EU law if it achieves its objectives of increasing the quality of the academy systems.

THE FUTURE FOR EU LAW AND FOOTBALL

EU law is of huge importance for the football industry throughout the world. Although the EU accepts the 'specificity of sport', it grants no exemption from EU law for the industry. Where purely sporting rules are integral for the sport and are considered proportionate (e.g. eligibility rules for International football) these can be justified, but where rules are either not integral for sport or have a disproportionate impact on EU rights they can be challenged by the Commission or in the European Court of Justice.

It's clear as day.

But by all means, keep ignoring the simple fact that Blatter has been looking at the possibility that he might get the law changed and has been shot down.

leninbenjamin

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

But by all means, keep ignoring the simple fact that Blatter has been looking at the possibility that he might get the law changed and has been shot down.

and now he's trying to put pressure on associations to make it a gentlemen's rule. this clearly shows how much of an idiot he is, because all it needs is one club to go to the ECJ, and also how he perceives that the game of football should be above the law. he's a tyrant and should have no control over an organisation as powerful as FIFA.

Chardee MacDennis

Well "Fifa has voted overwhelmingly in favour of the 'six-plus-five rule' put forward by president Sepp Blatter."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/7421348.stm

why couldnt they just vote it down and let that be the end of it, sigh....

Chardee MacDennis

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

How so?

In normal work you can give a months notice and quit for another job. Not so in sport.

In normal work, there is equaltiy legislation to adress gender and disability imbalances. Not so in sport.

In normal work there are health and safety rules. Not so in sport.

In normal work, your boss cant shout at you and throw things. Not so in sport.

FIFA is based in Switzerland exactly so it can avoid these things. What the EU Commisioner has said is that clubs cannot dicriminate on the employment front, ie no quotas on signings. That does not in anyway stop a FIFA rule in relation to the matchday squad.

I ask again, what 'EU law' stops FIFA issuing a rule that starting elevens must have 5/6/7 domestic players? UEFA already insists that a certain number of players in Champions League squads be products of your youth system. Whats the difference?

The amount of people passing themselves off as experts on employment law is laughable.

em
1. my boss can shout at me if he wants and as long as he is not throwing stuff at me, i dont think i'm gonna be up in the EU courts.
2. of course there are health and safety laws in football
3. can you show me where there is no equality?
4. UEFA's homegrown player rule says nothing of nationality; a player must have been at the club for 3 or more years before he was 18 to be classed as home grown.
5. as regards your lasts statement: the pot and the kettle come to mind.

you really are just ignoring all the facts here.

Mitch Connor

Call_me_al wrote: »

em
1. my boss can shout at me if he wants and as long as he is not throwing stuff at me, i dont think i'm gonna be up in the EU courts.
2. of course there are health and safety laws in football
3. can you show me where there is no equality?
4. UEFA's homegrown player rule says nothing of nationality; a player must have been at the club for 3 or more years before he was 18 to be classed as home grown.
5. as regards your lasts statement: the pot and the kettle come to mind.

you really are just ignoring all the facts here.

to be classed as home-grown under Uefa rules, the player has to have been at the club for 3 years between the ages of 15 and 21.

OhNoYouDidn't

Tauren wrote: »

to be classed as home-grown under Uefa rules, the player has to have been at the club for 3 years between the ages of 15 and 21.

Sigh. We will try this one last time.

FIFA can, and do, impose a quota system on matchday squads.

All I am saying is there is nothing to stop them doing another.

This is not rocket science.

Mitch Connor

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Sigh. We will try this one last time.

FIFA can, and do, impose a quota system on matchday squads.

All I am saying is there is nothing to stop them doing another.

This is not rocket science.

why are you sighing at me - all i did was may a correction to cal_me_al's post

Personally I don't really get why Fifa would not be allowed to impose any rule they like. They govern a set of competitions - if you want to play in the competition then play by 'our' rules. If you don't, then go make your own game...

Pepe LeFrits

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Sigh. We will try this one last time.

FIFA can, and do, impose a quota system on matchday squads.

All I am saying is there is nothing to stop them doing another.

This is not rocket science.

And you're wrong, because the homegrown quota and the 6+5 quota are not the same. The first rule is already legally dubious, and the second one is certainly crossing a line that would be challenged in court and would be blocked.

Which is why Blatter is looking to get the law changed so that he can push through his 6+5 proposal, which you seem to refuse to accept.

You're right, it isn't rocket science.