Interesting Article

DSB

bohsman wrote: »

"Kinda stating the obvious there."

Yea but if you read any of the countless glory hunter v holier than thou threads over the years very few seem to realise that.

I'm sure the journalist does realise it but I'm sure he also doesn't want to pander his beliefs to cater for what people want to hear.

Jazzy

Gavin shels wrote: »

It's in Tolka, don't mine Des he hasn't made many matches this year.:rolleyes:

thats cos hes a Man Utd fan

OhNoYouDidn't

invincibleirish wrote: »

Nope but the tone of it appears to be debating whether its a bad thing or not (its not)

Yes it is.

Fratton Fred

Yes it sums up Irish football, but ets face it, that article could have been written by a Reading/Brentford/Gillingham fan quite easily., or, for that matter, a Kilmarnock or Stirling Albion fan.

they talk about getting people to EL games, but what do the clubs do? do they have community liason managers going out and meeting the community? do they have players visiting local schools and giving out free tickets? or do they just sit on their arses moaning that no one comes to watch them?

My personal view is that Eircom is the wrong sponsor, the league needs a sponsor who is more interested in football, one that gives the impresson of youth and fun, not a boring old giant that most people detest.

The sponsor should be out there getting Damien Duff or Stephen Doyle in people's faces, talking about their days growing up as a Cork fan, or a Bohs fan and get kids to go along to games.

When Sunderland are over, why not make the games all ticket, with tickets only available to those who attended the lasy home game, make people work for their ticket rather thanjust turn up to try and catch a glimpse of the "God" that is Roy Keane.

There's loads of things clubs can, do and maybe they are doing it, but I haven't seen it.

OhNoYouDidn't

Fratton Fred wrote: »

they talk about getting people to EL games, but what do the clubs do? .

Every club has a CPO. There have been some innovative schemes, from Rovers getting onto Ticketmaster, letting kids and Taxi drivers in free, giving out easter eggs with a free pass for a game etc.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

do they have community liason managers going out and meeting the community? .

Yes. Every single one of them.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

do they have players visiting local schools and giving out free tickets? .

Yes. Every single one of them.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

or do they just sit on their arses moaning that no one comes to watch them?
.

No.

What an appalingly ignorant post.

_blank_

Every club doesn't have a CPO.

OhNoYouDidn't

DesF wrote: »

Every club doesn't have a CPO.

They should have, its a condition of licencing....

_blank_

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

They should have, its a condition of licencing....

No, it isn't.

OhNoYouDidn't

DSB wrote: »

I'm sure the journalist does realise it but I'm sure he also doesn't want to pander his beliefs to cater for what people want to hear.

Knowing the guy in question, the last thing he will ever do is water down his disdain for barstoolers.

OhNoYouDidn't

DesF wrote: »

No, it isn't.

I think you will find it is.

_blank_

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I think you will find it is.

Show me.

OhNoYouDidn't

DesF wrote: »

Show me.

I don't have the licencing document in work, but it does. Will link later.

The substantive point is FrattonFred seems to want to believe that LoI clubs arent active in reaching into the community and get new punters through the door.

We had 60 kids from Carlow at the Rovers Drogs game ffs.

Fratton Fred

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

What an appalingly ignorant post.

Yes it was ignorant, in that I have no idea what they do, which is why I asked the questions.:rolleyes:

So the teams are doing everything I suggested, my apologies.

Fratton Fred

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I don't have the licencing document in work, but it does. Will link later.

The substantive point is FrattonFred seems to want to believe that LoI clubs arent active in reaching into the community and get new punters through the door.

We had 60 kids from Carlow at the Rovers Drogs game ffs.

good, lets face it, if you go to a school and give out 200 free tickets, it isn't costing the club anything, but of those 200 free tickets, there will probably 50 kids that go, who need to be taken there by 25 fathers who pay.

It's all about getting to kids young and getting theminto the habit of going, and making it trendy to go.

and don't be so defensive.

DSB

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I don't have the licencing document in work, but it does. Will link later.

Its only for clubs with a Premier Licence, I believe.

SectionF

Fratton Fred wrote: »

good, lets face it, if you go to a school and give out 200 free tickets, it isn't costing the club anything, but of those 200 free tickets, there will probably 50 kids that go, who need to be taken there by 25 fathers who pay.

It's all about getting to kids young and getting theminto the habit of going, and making it trendy to go.

and don't be so defensive.

Too much amateur marketing expertise. I think the reason your post didn't go down well was because of its combination of a sweepingly judgemental tone with a patent lack of knowledge.
If eL clubs got a single new fan for every preachy MB post about what they should be doing to get people to go to football, they'd already be building bigger stadiums to accommodate the demand.
Many eL clubs are putting in massive work to engage communities, but, however worthy it sounds, it can only achieve so much. The key is mass coverage of what should be a mass sport. MNS is the first move in that direction in decades, but most coverage in other media is at best woefully inadequate if not deliberately negative.
When you listen to Morning Ireland and they are shooting the breeze about last night's eL, rather than ManU or Cavan GAA, then you will see people return to real football.

_blank_

Morning Ireland isn't on of a Saturday :pac:

gosplan

The article is right but to be honest the main thing that puts me off going to games is time.

I'm not traditionally from Dublin and I don't drive. I grew up in Wexford but before the days of Wexford Youths - no-one really went to watch local football.

No-one in my family watched football, I started watching Arsenal that season when they took the league from Liverpool as a friend of mine was already a supporter.

Since then I've gotten pretty obsessed with them. Obviously I don't make too many games but I try to go whenever I can and try to schedule my London trips to see friends and family around football matches.

What I'm saying is that I'm not a part of grassroots football in Ireland and never have been. I love the national team and go to every match I can but I don't have any alliegence to a club side. Should I just decide to develop one now - will I suddenly be a 'real' fan then?

To all the 'real' fans here, I'm pretty sure you didn't just one day decide to go to a game on your own - someone pointed you in the direction of the team you support, most likely your families or friends have some involvement in Dublin club football, or at least a history of following it.

I've no problem with that, you've done more than me to promote grassroots football in irleand but the level of elitism in many of your posts sickens me. Just beyond you are the GAA county supporters saying you're not 'real' Irish sports fans at all. Just beyond those are the parish supporters who abuse them for simply jumping on the Croke Park bandwagon. Where does it end?

You learn from those around you, in my case it was Arsenal and I've a lot emotionally invested in them, far too much to consider turning back now.

Honestly, if I thought it was worth the time I'd go to an EL game. I'm not sure if this is me being lazy, the EL not selling its product well or me simply not having a past in Irish club football ... or a combination of all three.

Fratton Fred

SectionF wrote: »

Too much amateur marketing expertise. I think the reason your post didn't go down well was because of its combination of a sweepingly judgemental tone with a patent lack of knowledge.
If eL clubs got a single new fan for every preachy MB post about what they should be doing to get people to go to football, they'd already be building bigger stadiums to accommodate the demand.
Many eL clubs are putting in massive work to engage communities, but, however worthy it sounds, it can only achieve so much. The key is mass coverage of what should be a mass sport. MNS is the first move in that direction in decades, but most coverage in other media is at best woefully inadequate if not deliberately negative.
When you listen to Morning Ireland and they are shooting the breeze about last night's eL, rather than ManU or Cavan GAA, then you will see people return to real football.

amateur marketing?

I was only quoting what I saw Reading and Wycombe Wnaderers doing to compete with the big clubs. Wycombe in particular really turned things around and ow the majority of kids in High Wycombe wear Blue jerseys instead of red ones, a major triumph for the club.

Yes, the key is mass coverage, like I said it's about making it trendy and mass coverage creates that. That i why I am surprised that Eircom are not doing more to promote the league, surely mass coverage is good for them. Maybe a more dynamic sponsor (Meteor for example) would help.

_blank_

Meteor = eircom

estebancambias

gosplan wrote: »

The article is right but to be honest the main thing that puts me off going to games is time.

I'm not traditionally from Dublin and I don't drive. I grew up in Wexford but before the days of Wexford Youths - no-one really went to watch local football.

No-one in my family watched football, I started watching Arsenal that season when they took the league from Liverpool as a friend of mine was already a supporter.

Since then I've gotten pretty obsessed with them. Obviously I don't make too many games but I try to go whenever I can and try to schedule my London trips to see friends and family around football matches.

What I'm saying is that I'm not a part of grassroots football in Ireland and never have been. I love the national team and go to every match I can but I don't have any alliegence to a club side. Should I just decide to develop one now - will I suddenly be a 'real' fan then?

To all the 'real' fans here, I'm pretty sure you didn't just one day decide to go to a game on your own - someone pointed you in the direction of the team you support, most likely your families or friends have some involvement in Dublin club football, or at least a history of following it.

I've no problem with that, you've done more than me to promote grassroots football in irleand but the level of elitism in many of your posts sickens me. Just beyond you are the GAA county supporters saying you're not 'real' Irish sports fans at all. Just beyond those are the parish supporters who abuse them for simply jumping on the Croke Park bandwagon. Where does it end?

You learn from those around you, in my case it was Arsenal and I've a lot emotionally invested in them, far too much to consider turning back now.

Honestly, if I thought it was worth the time I'd go to an EL game. I'm not sure if this is me being lazy, the EL not selling its product well or me simply not having a past in Irish club football ... or a combination of all three.

Like you I love the Ireland team. In fact they are the only team I support in the true sense of the word. Like if they win, I am elated. If they concede in the last minute it makes me depressed.

I just go to EL games to watch the actual football match, but you would be suprised how quick you can become emotionally attached with a team once you start following them. I remember I had this with Bohs. I hated the Eircom League, then watched Robbie Doyle in action at the Carslile grounds and I was hooked on them.

But you make a good point, do you just become a bandwagon jumper if you start supporting a team now.

LuckyLloyd

SectionF wrote: »

Too much amateur marketing expertise. I think the reason your post didn't go down well was because of its combination of a sweepingly judgemental tone with a patent lack of knowledge.
If eL clubs got a single new fan for every preachy MB post about what they should be doing to get people to go to football, they'd already be building bigger stadiums to accommodate the demand.
Many eL clubs are putting in massive work to engage communities, but, however worthy it sounds, it can only achieve so much. The key is mass coverage of what should be a mass sport. MNS is the first move in that direction in decades, but most coverage in other media is at best woefully inadequate if not deliberately negative.
When you listen to Morning Ireland and they are shooting the breeze about last night's eL, rather than ManU or Cavan GAA, then you will see people return to real football.

I'm afraid part of this will always be a simple numbers game. Check out how many professional Premiership or football league teams exist off the population of the greater London area. Then compare that to the amount of teams that are trying to exist off the much smaller population in Dublin - and the nation as a whole. Then add in the fact that Leinster and Munster are bigger operations than any English Premiership Rugby club - and the GAA is entwined into the fabric of this country.

England has the mass of barstool fans aswell. There is just a much larger population as a whole over there so the minority percentage that do want live football becomes enough to support football at that level.

You guys are all fighting a losing battle. You will be small time until you get someone into the Champions league / radically improve the standard of football that is played so that the league contains players that the barstoolers know to be "deadly".

_blank_

estebancambias wrote: »

then watched Robbie Doyle in action at the Carslile grounds and I was hooked on them.

:eek::eek:

Oh my god esteban.

I absolutely detest Robbie Doyle.

Fratton Fred

DesF wrote: »

Meteor = eircom

I know, very different brands and target market though.

DSB

gosplan wrote: »

To all the 'real' fans here, I'm pretty sure you didn't just one day decide to go to a game on your own

I did, and just dragged some unwilling participants along with me.

estebancambias

DesF wrote: »

:eek::eek:

Oh my god esteban.

I absolutely detest Robbie Doyle.

I like his style of play.

OhNoYouDidn't

DesF wrote: »

Meteor = eircom

People won't go to games because they don't like the sponsors? Heard it all now.

It is the FAI and clubs job to promote the league, not eircom. They provide plenty (free WAN broadband at all grounds for example) above and beyond what is contractually expected of them.

Fratton Fred

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

People won't go to games because they don't like the sponsors? Heard it all now.

It is the FAI and clubs job to promote the league, not eircom. They provide plenty (free WAN broadband at all grounds for example) above and beyond what is contractually expected of them.

great, I'll take my laptop along next time

you miss the point. Look at the way O2 uses the rugby team for advertising, how often do Eircom use the LoI in their adverts? (Or the national team for that matter)

Advertising creates brand awareness and image which is something the LoI needs. Eircom should be helping out there.

SectionF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm afraid part of this will always be a simple numbers game. Check out how many professional Premiership or football league teams exist off the population of the greater London area. Then compare that to the amount of teams that are trying to exist off the much smaller population in Dublin - and the nation as a whole. Then add in the fact that Leinster and Munster are bigger operations than any English Premiership Rugby club - and the GAA is entwined into the fabric of this country.

England has the mass of barstool fans aswell. There is just a much larger population as a whole over there so the minority percentage that do want live football becomes enough to support football at that level.

You guys are all fighting a losing battle. You will be small time until you get someone into the Champions league / radically improve the standard of football that is played so that the league contains players that the barstoolers know to be "deadly".

No one is suggesting that Irish football should have the same scale of following as English football in England.

If you want to call it 'small time', then that is your take, but as it happens, in spite of our frequent delusions to the contrary, we live in a small country.

In fact, absurdly, part of the problem is that people feel the need to big up themselves -- and the country -- by claiming allegiance to elite British clubs.

As for the level of football, the standard is the standard. If more people went, it would get better. We will never have access to the talent freak show that is EPL, and if everyone adopted the logic that we should therefore abandon the sport, then there would be just one league in the world. As it is, live football is a hell of a lot better than any other sporting spectacle on the island.

You are right in that no one is going to be weaned overnight off the television-driven, vicarious buzz of following Arsenal or ManU. But, if they love football as much as they claim to, they at least will go to the odd eL game and accept it for what it is and where it's at.

Or maybe they're just happy with television.

OhNoYouDidn't

SectionF wrote: »

Or maybe they're just happy with television.

I think my newfound gypsey chum has hit the nail on the head.

The issue is not looking at overseas football, most LoI heads are fans of more than one team, its the exclusive support of foreign football by Irish, and only Irish, fans who then profess to be lovers of the game, patronise their local teams and expected to be taken seriously.

"I follow Man Utd". Why not "I follow Man Utd and Rovers"?

LuckyLloyd

SectionF wrote: »

No one is suggesting that Irish football should have the same scale of following as English football in England.

If you want to call it 'small time', then that is your take, but as it happens, in spite of our frequent delusions to the contrary, we live in a small country.

In fact, absurdly, part of the problem is that people feel the need to big up themselves -- and the country -- by claiming allegiance to elite British clubs.

As for the level of football, the standard is the standard. If more people went, it would get better. We will never have access to the talent freak show that is EPL, and if everyone adopted the logic that we should therefore abandon the sport, then there would be just one league in the world. As it is, live football is a hell of a lot better than any other sporting spectacle on the island.

You are right in that no one is going to be weaned overnight off the television-driven, vicarious buzz of following Arsenal or ManU. But, if they love football as much as they claim to, they at least will go to the odd eL game and accept it for what it is and where it's at.

Or maybe they're just happy with television.

I've written about this before. Most people do just like television and don't actually like football all that much. They keep up enough not to feel left out down the pub. And their motivations are not to look into football because they love the sport - but because they love being part of a winning feeling of some sort. That is just the way it is.

I don't like the hype of the premiership and the way it is marketed and presented. However, I can't deny that I love going to a premiership game and seeing first hand the athleticism and intelligence of the whole thing. I've also traveled to a couple of championship games this year and found it hugely entertaining. The Eircom league is light years behind them in terms of the pace and invention on show. The patterns and flows seem much more limited and predictable and it is rare that you see movement or runs off the ball that are genuinely intriguing.

So I'm happy to spend my schekles on a trip across the water to see games live. I don't really give a **** if that makes me a real football fan in you or anyone else's eyes. I love the sport, and am passionate about it. But some part of it is that I like to be entertained.

Why can't you guys just be happy with your hobby and leave the rest of us to it? Ye can be safe in the knowledge that you have what you perceive as the moral high ground - that right is on your side. Do you actually believe that constant preaching to the barstoolers / guys that travel abroad for games changes anything? Do you think that having the same old argument on this forum all the time is eventually going to help move the Eircom league out of the depths of the footballing world?

OhNoYouDidn't

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Why can't you guys just be happy with your hobby and leave the rest of us to it? Ye can be safe in the knowledge that you have what you perceive as the moral high ground - that right is on your side.

But right is on our side.

Your choice of 'hobby' has a direct negative impact on mine. So while you drain money out of the Irish football pool and give it to a monolith that is the English Premier League, real fans will continue to question your choice, and the pecular piece of the Irish psyche that it represents, analyised and mocked.

SectionF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I've written about this before. Most people do just like television and don't actually like football all that much. They keep up enough not to feel left out down the pub. And their motivations are not to look into football because they love the sport - but because they love being part of a winning feeling of some sort. That is just the way it is.

I don't like the hype of the premiership and the way it is marketed and presented. However, I can't deny that I love going to a premiership game and seeing first hand the athleticism and intelligence of the whole thing. I've also traveled to a couple of championship games this year and found it hugely entertaining. The Eircom league is light years behind them in terms of the pace and invention on show. The patterns and flows seem much more limited and predictable and it is rare that you see movement or runs off the ball that are genuinely intriguing.

So I'm happy to spend my schekles on a trip across the water to see games live. I don't really give a **** if that makes me a real football fan in you or anyone else's eyes. I love the sport, and am passionate about it. But some part of it is that I like to be entertained.

Why can't you guys just be happy with your hobby and leave the rest of us to it? Ye can be safe in the knowledge that you have what you perceive as the moral high ground - that right is on your side. Do you actually believe that constant preaching to the barstoolers / guys that travel abroad for games changes anything? Do you think that having the same old argument on this forum all the time is eventually going to help move the Eircom league out of the depths of the footballing world?

It's an argument! We can agree to not have the argument once we agree, and if we don't agree then I think it's healthy that we should continue to have the argument. It's curious, however, that it's people on your side of the argument always want it to just stop.
But you do seem to agree: 'Most people do just like television and don't actually like football all that much.' That's fine. Carry on, because you don't need my permission or anyone else's to do that.
I don't think anyone is going to have a Damascene conversion to eL, thereafter shunning EPL forever, but I also don't think we should pretend that there isn't football to go to here, as not everyone has the money to travel to live games in England other than for the occasional jolly, probably as part of a shopping trip.
You like the athleticism and intelligence that you see in EPL. I see that too in eL, though at a different level, of course, and it is not to be dismissed simply because it is naturally occurring rather than depending on the ownership of vast Eurasian oil fields or of whole countries.

PauloMN

The Ed Leahy piece has some merit, but personally I feel that he and others actually contribute to the problem they are talking about. He has taken the "not a real football fan" approach with his case-study examples.

Maybe, instead of alienating potential Eircom League fans by taking the piss out of them, he could try a more positive approach.

The elitism of some Eircom League fans is there for everyone to see - it's been mentioned plenty of times here and in this thread - and that article stinks with it. The suggestion that only a devoted EL fan that goes to games every week is a real football fan is just ridiculous and childish.

I support Celtic and often look at the ****ty, unglamourous matches we play, and the equally unglamourous football that's often being played in the crappy, unglamourous cold stadiums. I often wish Celtic had the millions of pounds that the likes of Stoke and Hull will have to play with. I listen to the crap people spout on about "oh you know Celtic are British though" and "sure the fans are all knackers and RA heads". Who cares what people thing? I don't, because it doesn't change the feeling I get when Celtic win, like last Thursday night. I wouldn't change it for the world.

I don't insinuate that people who watch EPL games on telly every so often that they are somehow less of a fan, that they can't be real football men 'cause they don't get to games. Why do lots of EL fans do that? Each to their own - nobody has to justify their reasons for supporting their team, or the manner in which they support their teams.

If you go to EL matches, good for you. If you support your local team, good for you. If you constantly whine about armchair fans, real football fans only being those that experience the atmosphere every weekend, EPL/SPL fans taking money out of the country and depriving the EL of it etc., please STFU.

invincibleirish

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I think my newfound gypsey chum has hit the nail on the head.

The issue is not looking at overseas football, most LoI heads are fans of more than one team, its the exclusive support of foreign football by Irish, and only Irish, fans who then profess to be lovers of the game, patronise their local teams and expected to be taken seriously.

"I follow Man Utd". Why not "I follow Man Utd and Rovers"?

+1, whilst im a Villa fan, i do keep a look out for and occasionally frequent City & Ramblers home games (more the latter then the former these days).


But relating back to the point i raised earlier, its more common for people at a young age to follow British teams because thats the family tradition. I didnt start regularly going to City games until i was a teenager (and my first Ramblers game was when i was 19), by that time i was already dyed in the wool Claret & Blue(Villa not CR).

LOI can be a decent product, but most people arent exposed to it at a young enough age compared to Liverpool, Man Utd etc., and when you've had that kind of experience (eg a trip to Istanbul) i can see why Bohs v Finn Harps might not have the same appeal(but then again any game with skoby Dub fans involved is bound to have that effect;)).

Mr Alan

this is the best thread i've seen in my time on here about the EL v PL debate. Good work lads.

LuckyLloyd

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

But right is on our side.

Your choice of 'hobby' has a direct negative impact on mine. So while you drain money out of the Irish football pool and give it to a monolith that is the English Premier League, real fans will continue to question your choice, and the pecular piece of the Irish psyche that it represents, analyised and mocked.

I'm not your problem. I also attend UCD games.

thusspakeblixa

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Your choice of 'hobby' has a direct negative impact on mine. So while you drain money out of the Irish football pool and give it to a monolith that is the English Premier League, real fans will continue to question your choice, and the pecular piece of the Irish psyche that it represents, analyised and mocked.

A lot of Irish people who support EPL or SPL or whatever would never even thought about supporting an Irish team. And to be honest, I would agree with some of the sentiment expressed earlier in the thread - that the ball is firmly in the sponsor's court. Everyday the EPL receives page upon page of print coverage, countless TV and Radio advertisements etc. Carling and the other sponsors of he various teams use the teams as marketing tools. The Irish teams remain almost unknown, unless you live near a ground. Example, my 10 year old brother literally only realised there is an Irish league the other day when I was watching the Pats - Bohs match on TV. He has been watching Man U and Ireland since he was 5. It's not ignorance on the people's part. If anything it's ignorance from the sponsors and groups that should market the game.

invincibleirish

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

But right is on our side.

Your choice of 'hobby' has a direct negative impact on mine. So while you drain money out of the Irish football pool and give it to a monolith that is the English Premier League, real fans will continue to question your choice, and the pecular piece of the Irish psyche that it represents, analyised and mocked.

You make the wrong assumptions.

people are not obliged to support a particular league or club, its about freedom of choice, English football has dominated over LOI for years and its not going to change with little Irelander attitudes like yours, for the second time in this thread i say, stop sucking lemons! be proactive!

ROCKMAN

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I've written about this before. Most people do just like television and don't actually like football all that much. They keep up enough not to feel left out down the pub. And their motivations are not to look into football because they love the sport - but because they love being part of a winning feeling of some sort. That is just the way it is.

I don't like the hype of the premiership and the way it is marketed and presented. However, I can't deny that I love going to a premiership game and seeing first hand the athleticism and intelligence of the whole thing. I've also traveled to a couple of championship games this year and found it hugely entertaining. The Eircom league is light years behind them in terms of the pace and invention on show. The patterns and flows seem much more limited and predictable and it is rare that you see movement or runs off the ball that are genuinely intriguing.

So I'm happy to spend my schekles on a trip across the water to see games live. I don't really give a **** if that makes me a real football fan in you or anyone else's eyes. I love the sport, and am passionate about it. But some part of it is that I like to be entertained.

Why can't you guys just be happy with your hobby and leave the rest of us to it? Ye can be safe in the knowledge that you have what you perceive as the moral high ground - that right is on your side. Do you actually believe that constant preaching to the barstoolers / guys that travel abroad for games changes anything? Do you think that having the same old argument on this forum all the time is eventually going to help move the Eircom league out of the depths of the footballing world?

Thank you for this post one of the best post I have read on here. I like you hate with a passion the false hype TV. and SKY in particular bring to the game. As for the standard of PL it is light years ahead of our home game that is just a fact that all fairminded EL fans would concede. The skill ,athleticism and intelligence is what brings me and thousand's like me back to the PL year after year.

As for EL its probably easy if you are following one of the big clubs here. but as someone who grew up following two teams one piss poor ,bottom tier , local league team and a not so successful first division team (at the time ):D
The fact that my childhood local team now play in a north county senior league and are only surviving because of volunteers (catch a game ever now and then when back home. ) I find it funny that the EL fans on there with the " moral ground " seem to be from the big clubs at the top level here. How many local small teams have ye passed on a friday night to get to the big club you support ???
Moral ground can be shaky!!!

Fratton Fred

Just to prove two points, the first that I am a gob****e, the second that I am happy to put my hand up and admit when I am wrong.

My daughter has just come home from school and has had a coaching session from Martin Russell, a coach at UCD and a couple of the players (Didn't get their names) She has had a great time and has got a free admission to the game against Finn Harps tomorrow night.

Her and half her class want to go and i am happy to take them along, just to prove that it works.

I have been assured though, that she still supports Pompey, but would like to wach UCD play:D

Also shows coincidences happen:D

Mr Alan

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I have been assured though, that she still supports Pompey, but would like to wach UCD play

careful fred! its a slippery slope!

Draupnir

These arguments are all absolutely ridiculous, each and every time they take place (which is around once every week). Just because some lad with a chip on his shoulder writes about it in the media doesn't make it anymore valid.

Some questions:

First, if you had a choice of two shops in which to buy your banana's and one of those shops sold some of the best banana's available anywhere in the world whilst the second shop sold reasonably ok banana's, which shop would you go to? Would the fact that other people you know like the reasonably ok banana's make a difference?

Secondly, why does it bother eL fans so much that some people prefer to support the EPL? Surely if you like the eL and support a club in that league, that should be enough for you? Does this argument crop up so regularly and cause so much problem for eL fans because you know that without increased support the league will never grow enough to compete in Champions League's etc. therefore you hope that continuous badgering of EPL fans will help your club achieve your dreams for them?

At the end of the day, I don't care what team you support, what cinema you go see movies at, what chipper you like, what chocolate bar you buy. I know what ones I like though and I enjoy them all.

DSB

Draupnir wrote: »

These arguments are all absolutely ridiculous, each and every time they take place (which is around once every week). Just because some lad with a chip on his shoulder writes about it in the media doesn't make it anymore valid.

Some questions:

First, if you had a choice of two shops in which to buy your banana's and one of those shops sold some of the best banana's available anywhere in the world whilst the second shop sold reasonably ok banana's, which shop would you go to? Would the fact that other people you know like the reasonably ok banana's make a difference?

Secondly, why does it bother eL fans so much that some people prefer to support the EPL? Surely if you like the eL and support a club in that league, that should be enough for you? Does this argument crop up so regularly and cause so much problem for eL fans because you know that without increased support the league will never grow enough to compete in Champions League's etc. therefore you hope that continuous badgering of EPL fans will help your club achieve your dreams for them?

At the end of the day, I don't care what team you support, what cinema you go see movies at, what chipper you like, what chocolate bar you buy. I know what ones I like though and I enjoy them all.

Thats fair enough, but I'm sure you don't monitor the stock market to see how your favourite chocolate bar's manufacturers are getting on, hoping they'll win the league over their competitors, the same with the cinema or chipper. The only reason someone might care about the success of these is that it might drive down prices.

Supporting a football club, is meant to be about an affinity, if people were just to go for the best bananas of the bunch, I think its fair to say that the whole world would be Man Utd fans. And I don't think that this would make for a very interesting world. Clubs are located the world over, and not just in one massive sports region with TV cameras all over, for a reason.

_blank_

The best bananas are the ones you grow yourself.

Draupnir

I would monitor the chocolate bar's stock value if I invested in the company though and I would certainly be interested in their performance or success over their rivals if I visited their factory a bit and kept up to date on how their staff were performing as a result of my investment. Would you agree?

I think you can see what I am getting at here?

Draupnir

DesF wrote: »

The best bananas are the ones you grow yourself.

Well then Des, I think you have settled this, Ireland produces notoriously poor quality bananas. Must be all the rain and cold weather.

Mr Alan

Draupnir: there is also an argument for people supporting local traders so they dont go out of business.

For example, i pay slightly more for musical equiptment (cables,amps,guitars,mics etc) from small shops around Dublin than i would do if i bought online. But without people like me these shops wouldnt be able to survive, so me, and many people like me, do choose to support the "local traders"

Aint saying that the EL vigilantes are right, but a lot of the time, they do have a point.

Gavin "shels"

Draupnir wrote: »

Well then Des, I think you have settled this, Ireland produces notoriously poor quality bananas. Must be all the rain and cold weather.

In that case so does England and Scotland.;)

OhNoYouDidn't

the very fact that people equate chising a football team with buying bananas is fundamentally depressing.

but since its being discussed, if its the qualit of the bananas on offer, why dont you all eat Spanish bananas? It is not that simple and well you know it.