Non-VRT'd cars seizure N11

daRobot · 30-05-2008 2:18pm

Well I promise not to use any pompous Latin abbreviations to highlight my point

company_car · 30-05-2008 2:21pm

daRobot wrote: »

So am I deemed to be awful in your eyes now?

Look it, think about this. Hypothetically, if you, assuming you illegally drive a yellow reg, got involved in a road rage incident with me, who doesn't drive a yellow reg, then what is to stop me brake testing you all the way to Dublin? You can't call the Gardai because they are liable to take your English car from you.

seamy_orr · 30-05-2008 2:24pm

company_car wrote: »

Look it, think about this. Hypothetically, if you, assuming you illegally drive a yellow reg, got involved in a road rage incident with me, who doesn't drive a yellow reg, then what is to stop me brake testing you all the way to Dublin? You can't call the Gardai because they are liable to take your English car from you.

Why don't you try this out, you might just be lucky and get followed home...

company_car · 30-05-2008 2:29pm

seamy_orr wrote: »

Why don't you try this out, you might just be lucky and get followed home...

This is like shooting fish in a barrel.

peasant · 30-05-2008 2:31pm

company_car wrote: »

This is like shooting fish in a barrel.

'tis indeed ...one more "shot" and you're gone ...

company_car · 30-05-2008 2:35pm

peasant wrote: »

'tis indeed ...one more "shot" and you're gone ...

So shoot me.

daRobot · 30-05-2008 2:38pm

company_car wrote: »

Look it, think about this. Hypothetically, if you, assuming you illegally drive a yellow reg, got involved in a road rage incident with me, who doesn't drive a yellow reg, then what is to stop me brake testing you all the way to Dublin? You can't call the Gardai because they are liable to take your English car from you.

For what it's worth ,I don't drive a uk reg.I paid my Vrt two days after bringing it in as didn't want to run the risk of getting it confiscated, but anyone who decides to take a chance and not pay it, I say good luck to them and hope they don't caught. Not the most law abiding opinion, but my opinion all the same.

No bitterness on my part towards anyone that didn't pay.

Your example is awful by the way. How are you to "hypothetically" know that the person isn't :

a) Irish living in Uk, and back temporarily with their car

b) A tourist

c) A N.I resident

All of which are driving legally on a uk plate, yet you'd choose to play a dangerous road game with them, which would ironically most likely end in the Gardai being called by you.

You might want to think before you type next time.

Steve · 30-05-2008 2:40pm

daRobot wrote: »

It'd would be easier to stomach the tax if the billions of revenue collected by this tax over the past few years went toward creating a fantastic road network, but it ain't so. Motorists are getting taxed heavily but getting nothing back, but the pleasure of driving on some of the worst roads in Europe.

Well said.

company_car wrote: »

So shoot me.

:eek:

peasant · 30-05-2008 2:41pm

company_car wrote: »

So shoot me.

done ...banned ...bye, bye

roadruner · 30-05-2008 2:49pm

FuzzyWuzzyWazza wrote: »

you don't have to pay any tolls, just use an alternate route.:p
In fairness you choose to pay €4k road tak a year.

Well I don't choose to pay road tax it's called law last time I checked.

As for alt routes, I do sometimes but if you've got to be somewhere taking the long way round isn't always the quickest.

We pay enough tax on everything else on this Island why should we pay tolls as well
let the government use tax payers money to fund the privatisation of our roads.

GTC · 30-05-2008 3:04pm

If you don't hand over your keys the car is seized anyway. Transporter vehicles can tap the rear brakes to force them off and the car is dragged off.

I appreciate the law depends mostly on Irish taxpayers and some see that as unfair, but its a huge amount of revenue lost if it is not pursued. Any cars I see around with UK plates I usually give them a tug to see what the story is, and give them a severe bollicking if they're playing the fool.

If the area is suitable, the car is seized there and then. All I can say is, get used to it. You won't get any sympathy from Guards or here on Boards.

Fratton Fred · 30-05-2008 3:11pm

I pplied for exemption from VRT in October, once we had decided to stay permanently in Ireland. Our application was, eventually, rejected despite the fact we had my car four years and my wifes 9 months prior to moving to Ireland.

I have appealed and we are still witing for the outcome.

We are worried that our cars will get seized as we have had them here for over a year on yellow plates. We are both insured with Quinn who know the situation so we are not a risk to other drivers, but the whole process is slow and painful.

GTC · 30-05-2008 3:13pm

Why would you be granted exemption?

furtzy · 30-05-2008 3:13pm

GTC wrote: »

If you don't hand over your keys the car is seized anyway. Transporter vehicles can tap the rear brakes to force them off and the car is dragged off.

I appreciate the law depends mostly on Irish taxpayers and some see that as unfair, but its a huge amount of revenue lost if it is not pursued. Any cars I see around with UK plates I usually give them a tug to see what the story is, and give them a severe bollicking if they're playing the fool.

If the area is suitable, the car is seized there and then. All I can say is, get used to it. You won't get any sympathy from Guards or here on Boards.

Exactly and good to hear. All taxes are collected by revenue and doled out accordingly so to all the non VRT payers don't compain when services are cut in your locality as you are contributing to that. Revenue take is down nearly €900m already this year. All avenues are being targeting to recoup any money they can so areas such as VRT which were over looked during the good times are now being actively pursued.

I'm not saying VRT is calculated fairly but get used to it as the country could not afford to abolish it. It generates over €2bn a year so if VRT is abolished that money has to come from somewhere be it higher VAT or higher PAYE

Fratton Fred · 30-05-2008 3:16pm

GTC wrote: »

Why would you be granted exemption?

Because we are EU citizens transfering residence, which entitles us to an exemption from VRT if we have owned the cars for more then 6 months. Proving this has been a nightmare, we have had to provide bank statements, gas bills all sorts.

My wife is an Irish citizen moving back to Ireland after four years away and they are being very hard to satisfy regarding her and her car. as they are teting it as a joint application we arer both still on yellow plates.

Steve · 30-05-2008 3:17pm

GTC wrote: »

If you don't hand over your keys the car is seized anyway. Transporter vehicles can tap the rear brakes to force them off and the car is dragged off.

I appreciate the law depends mostly on Irish taxpayers and some see that as unfair, but its a huge amount of revenue lost if it is not pursued. Any cars I see around with UK plates I usually give them a tug to see what the story is, and give them a severe bollicking if they're playing the fool.

If the area is suitable, the car is seized there and then. All I can say is, get used to it. You won't get any sympathy from Guards or here on Boards.

Allways good to get the official view on it, thanks.

Zube · 30-05-2008 3:31pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

My wife is an Irish citizen moving back to Ireland after four years away and they are being very hard to satisfy regarding her and her car.

This is another unfortunate effect of the rampant abuse of the law in this area: law-abiding people trying to do it by the book get treated as likely tax-dodgers by the Revenue boys.

G-Money · 30-05-2008 4:43pm

I have to admit I don't know the in's out and out's and the legality of VRT. I assume it's not illegal otherwise the EU probably would have done something, however as far as I know it does go against some guidelines that the EU has set out in the Treaty of Rome.

As unfair as VRT is, I don't see the government getting rid of it anytime soon. I read something online about how they are raking in money from VRT which is replacing the money they lost after the abolition of stamp duty for first time buyers.

Regarding the quality of the roads, I'm from the north myself and a number of years ago it was easy to argue that the roads were better up here. However this has definitely swung in the opposite direction now IMHO. When I drive to Dublin, it's a great smooth road, easy to drive. Except for the idiot drivers who are out to kill others with their driving.

VRT is a pain however if I move to the republic, I intend to pay it. I could probably argue that I'm "only down for the day" as I have a northern/UK driving license and the accent to prove it, however it's kind of not worth the risk and the worry. I probably should have paid VRT a few years ago when I did live in the Republic however I didn't and I was spending the whole time worrying about being stopped and constantly looking over my shoulder. So this time I'd do it right.

My VRT is about 1000 euro and while I'd obviously prefer to have that in my pocket, I'd be willing to pay it just so I can relax. I guess the only annoying thing is that I doubt I would be staying in the republic for very long (2 years max) so I'd most likely end up re-importing it back into the north and having to change over the tax, insurance and NCT/MOT again. Ah well.

Steve · 30-05-2008 5:08pm

grandmaster wrote: »

I'm from the north myself......
VRT is a pain however if I move to the republic, I intend to pay it.

How long have you owned the car in the North? You are probably exempt.

Pirbright · 30-05-2008 5:13pm

well I'm in a similar situation:

English Born, Brought up in Dublin, English Full License, Family live in Dublin.

I've been in the British Army for 2.5 years mainly based up in NI. Had my jeep for over 12 months. I got hurt on exercise abroad and got treatment both sides of the border. I have all my paperwork - credit card, bank account, mobile phone, rent books, payslips etc (I even have a letter from the medical people saying why I got treatment down in Dublin). I also have my medical discharge papers and pension details.....decided to move back here for awhile - year or two so thought best to re-register my vehicle.

Got to the place, told my story and was told that I don't qualify for an exemption because I was down here getting treatment and "resided" here after operations on my leg.

So now I have to fork out 1500 euros. Well my sister will as I'm not going anywhere near the place ever again.....

Re-examing my decision to come back to this banana republic...

G-Money · 30-05-2008 5:15pm

It's a bit complicated. I bought the car a few years ago but I was living and working in the republic at the time. I then left and have been abroad and in the north since. I might be exempt but if I have to start producing documentation to claim the exemption then I run into problems. I have been living in the north for the last 8 months or so and havent been working so I have no documentation to back this up. Before that I was abroad but none of that documentation is in English and before that, I was working in Dublin and I don't really want to highlight that

pvt.joker · 30-05-2008 5:16pm

Pirbright wrote: »

well I'm in a similar situation:

English Born, Brought up in Dublin, English Full License, Family live in Dublin.

I've been in the British Army for 2.5 years mainly based up in NI. Had my jeep for over 12 months. I got hurt on exercise abroad and got treatment both sides of the border. I have all my paperwork - credit card, bank account, mobile phone, rent books, payslips etc (I even have a letter from the medical people saying why I got treatment down in Dublin). I also have my medical discharge papers and pension details.....decided to move back here for awhile - year or two so thought best to re-register my vehicle.

Got to the place, told my story and was told that I don't qualify for an exemption because I was down here getting treatment and "resided" here after operations on my leg.

So now I have to fork out 1500 euros. Well my sister will as I'm not going anywhere near the place ever again.....

Re-examing my decision to come back to this banana republic...

you know where the f*cking door is then don't you
No-ones forcing you to live here

Pirbright · 30-05-2008 5:37pm

Your point on VRT is??

peasant · 30-05-2008 5:48pm

warning for pvt. joker ...keep it civil or you will be shown the door

SomeDose · 30-05-2008 6:55pm

stevec wrote: »

This has been discussed over and over and over and over - it always decends into chaos and has to be locked.
The outcome always is:

Faction A:"I won't pay VRT because its unfair and I'm a rebel"
Faction B:"That's illegal and it just pushes up the tax for everyone else and I'm a sheep cos I abide by the law"

And never the twain shall meet

The FACTS are:

1. You have to pay VRT when you import a car whether you drive it or not.

2. Even if you bring the car in on a trailer and bury it in a hole, you still have to pay VRT.....

Although this would appear to be the case from the Finance Act you quoted, you've literally read the law to its letter. The Act says that it's an offence for a resident to be "in possession of a vehicle if it is unregistered". That same Act defines a vehicle as "a mechanically propelled vehicle". So why aren't revenue sat at the gates of Mondello every weekend seizing millions of euros worth of unregistered racing cars? Why aren't they at every rally around the country impounding half-million euro UK-reg'd WRC cars (which technically are liable for VRT since they are driven on public roads by ROI residents)? Here's why:

CHAPTER IV Registration and Taxation of Vehicles

130.—In this Chapter, save where the context otherwise requires—

"mechanically propelled vehicle" means a vehicle intended or adapted for propulsion by a mechanical means, including—

....but not including a tramcar or other vehicle running on permanent rails or a vehicle as respects which the Commissioners are satisfied that it is designed or constructed for off-road use (other than racing vehicles, scrambling vehicles or other sporting vehicles);"

Ergo, a car (be it racing, sporting or otherwise) is not liable for registration if it is not for use on a public road. And as far as I can tell, their definition of "register" or "registration" is not extrapolated to mean putting an actual registration plate on the vehicle.

I'll wager this aspect of the Act has never actually been challenged or brought up in court. If it ever was (i.e. if Revenue seized an unreg'd "road" vehicle from private property), I'd put my house on it being struck out of court in short order.

furtzy · 30-05-2008 7:21pm

Pirbright wrote: »

well I'm in a similar situation:

English Born, Brought up in Dublin, English Full License, Family live in Dublin.

I've been in the British Army for 2.5 years mainly based up in NI. Had my jeep for over 12 months. I got hurt on exercise abroad and got treatment both sides of the border. I have all my paperwork - credit card, bank account, mobile phone, rent books, payslips etc (I even have a letter from the medical people saying why I got treatment down in Dublin). I also have my medical discharge papers and pension details.....decided to move back here for awhile - year or two so thought best to re-register my vehicle.

Got to the place, told my story and was told that I don't qualify for an exemption because I was down here getting treatment and "resided" here after operations on my leg.

So now I have to fork out 1500 euros. Well my sister will as I'm not going anywhere near the place ever again.....

Re-examing my decision to come back to this banana republic...

enough of the banana republic rubbish. Stay in the U.K then since you are willing to fight in their army

peasant · 30-05-2008 7:29pm

What date is it? 1916?

markos79 · 30-05-2008 7:41pm

peasant wrote: »

What date is it? 1916?

:D

furtzy · 30-05-2008 7:43pm

peasant wrote: »

What date is it? 1916?

Not at all but the banana republic term has always pissed me off. Having grown up in the north it pisses me off more to hear it from a British soldier....anyway back to VRT.....

peasant · 30-05-2008 7:54pm

furtzy wrote: »

....anyway back to VRT.....

yes, please ...:D

Non-VRT'd cars seizure N11

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