Africa Day

edanto

The first poster remarked on the poetry of celebrating Africa Day in Dublin Castle given our history of occupation. I think it was fitting to have it there, but for a different reason.

Using that space for such a positive event says that it doesn't matter now what happened before, we can choose to use what our occupiers left behind as a place to celebrate diversity and inclusiveness for a day.

I've been to Elmina Castle, walked through the dungeons and got a sense for just how much damage was done to Africa by taking it's brightest and strongest into slavery - tens of millions of them. No, it wasn't something that we did and we don't owe anybody anything. But, for the first time in our history, we have enough wealth to actually share it with the less well-off in the world by both sending development money overseas and by letting more people come and work here.

I think we should do all we can - it's good for our country and our souls. We have a lot to go around here, lots of space, decent education system, fine weather - why not share it and welcome some new Irish?

cabinteelytom

It's not clear that any Celts (give Herodotus and his Keltoi their place, please) actually came to Ireland; I mean, could you name one?
The indigenous people of Ireland styled themselves Gaels, and the demands of that ethnic group is the reason why we have an independent, democratic, egalitarian state today. I'm proud to be one of them. Those are our values.

cabinteelytom

I'm more interested in directing attention to recent Irish history.
Was the economic boom, the only one our State has experienced, managed well? What are the lessons to learn from the last 10 years? What would we do different the next time? Could there really be 'no lessons'?
Along the way was there open discussion about the choices our society faced? Did the Government at any point say to the people, ' We need 200,000extra shop assistants on minimum wage to staff the long-hours culture and sell the super-cheap tat that newly capitalist China is flooding the world with?'.
Did we have a method of choosing from the options; import staff from abroad/protect shop workers' rights/restore traditional 'shopping days' and sundays off/ examine how other (smallish) european countries manage this?
Did the Government know there were options?
Were we in thrall to the Anglo-Saxon economic model (perhaps it's just unfortunately named)?
Why don't we have a 'Tribunal' ( not lawyers of course; we've paid them enough) economists and senior [ie independant] political figures look into that- the lessons of the economic boom?

cabinteelytom

Must sign off soon. My last post (plagiarised, appropriately) is a contribution of an African [to Ireland; why not?]. The two societies are remarkably similar (recently tribal, culturally homogeneous, similar historical experiences). We should share Nelson Mandela's suspicion of foregn experts and his assertion of the entitlement of a native people to independent thought:
'We were very wary of Communism. Lembede and many others, including myself, considered a 'foreign' ideology unsuited to the African situation. Lembede felt that the Communist Party was dominated by whites, which undermined African self-confidence and initiative.'
Amandla!

Cannibal Ox

FTA69 wrote:

Strictly speaking that's b*llocks. The many kingdoms in Ireland weren't particularly distinct at all, they were tuath which were interlinked with each other. These were then associated with a cuige, meaning fifth. A fifth of a greater entity which was often presided over by an Ard Ri (high king) based in Meath.

As far as I'm aware there aren't more then a handful of historically accurate High Kings in Ireland prior to 900 A.D, and those that existed afterwards were effectively ousted by the Normans 300 odd years later. Thats not a particularly long period to base a claim that this is the oldest nation in Europe, and then use that claim to justify excluding immigrants on the basis that they might contaminate the oldest nationality in Europe. He's gone even further and argued that excluding migrants based on our nationality should be enshrined in the constitution, a constitution that was in part constructed by someone who wasn't even born in Ireland, de Valera.

FTA69 wrote:

The notion we were simply a shower of disorientated tribesmen until being united by the civilised British is a complete and utter fallacy.

Thats not what I meant, and I didn't imply that the British 'civilized' the people of Ireland, I was arguing against cabinteelytom's claim that this is the oldest nation in Europe, which is a fallacy.

bartholomewbinn

cabinteelytom wrote: »

Must sign off soon. My last post (plagiarised, appropriately) is a contribution of an African [to Ireland; why not?]. The two societies are remarkably similar (recently tribal, culturally homogeneous, similar historical experiences). We should share Nelson Mandela's suspicion of foregn experts and his assertion of the entitlement of a native people to independent thought:
'We were very wary of Communism. Lembede and many others, including myself, considered a 'foreign' ideology unsuited to the African situation. Lembede felt that the Communist Party was dominated by whites, which undermined African self-confidence and initiative.'
Amandla!

What on earth are you talking about? “The two societies are remarkably similar?” Africa is the second largest continent on earth with a population of about 1 billion people. The racial types run from Arabs and Berbers in the north to blacks and whites and every other colour in between in the south. What societies are you talking about? Ireland is a small island off the North West coast of Europe with nothing in common with the continent of Africa except that we share the same planet. Or, more to the point are you just having a laugh?

cabinteelytom

Similar societies?
I was in South Africa 20 years ago, and the [white] policeman asked me," What are those 'troubles' in [northern] Ireland about?"
So, I told him.
And he said, 'So you want us out.'

Maybe you have to be there to see the similarities.

bartholomewbinn

cabinteelytom wrote: »

Similar societies?
I was in South Africa 20 years ago, and the [white] policeman asked me," What are those 'troubles' in [northern] Ireland about?"
So, I told him.
And he said, 'So you want us out.'

Maybe you have to be there to see the similarities.

Just as I thought your having a laugh. Goodbye

estebancambias

I hate when I see that quote about Irish becoming a minority in 50 years time.

First of all I presume the next census will show a big enough decrease in population because a lot of economic immigrants have returned.

Secondly, when does someone become Irish? I have some Russian roots, and a bit more Belgian, am I Irish yet?

Húrin

Is Europe to become a fortress of prosperity in a world of want? Does it make sense, economically, to an African not to get into a western country?

Leviticus 19:34
"The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God."

sound familiar?

Matthew 7:12
"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

FTA69

Cannibal Ox wrote: »

As far as I'm aware there aren't more then a handful of historically accurate High Kings in Ireland prior to 900 A.D, and those that existed afterwards were effectively ousted by the Normans 300 odd years later.

It still demonstrates the fact that Ireland and the people who dwelt in it suscribed to the notion of a homogenous nation centuries before invasion by the Normans. Likewise, high king or no, Ireland shared a common language, culture and social system. Aspects of which remained in place until the 17th century.

Thats not a particularly long period to base a claim that this is the oldest nation in Europe

I'm not backing up his nonsensical rants at all, rather replying to the point you made:

"Strictly speaking there wasn't a unified Irish nation until the late 16th century"

Ireland was self-consicously a nation centuries before this.

"Before that, most of the island was divided into distinct kingdoms with their own rulers."

As I pointed out, they weren't that distinct at all; and were simply cuigi or fifths of a greater entity.

edanto

Can you remind me how those points tie in to Africa Day or the issue of multiculturism and migration?

WooPeeA

Every continent has its own holidays. May 9 is the Europe Day for example and it's celebrated by many towns in the States or Canada. There's nothing wrong in celebrating the holiday of other cultures. I'm not against. People should smile a little bit more.

gaf1983

Cannibal Ox wrote: »

Term of stay is a globally accepted concept.

It is not. Not in the countries of the Arabian Gulf. Across the Gulf countries there are people, children and grandchildren of original migrants who may have been born and lived their whole life in the Gulf but will not be granted citizenship. See, for example, the Palestinians who had been living in Kuwait for generations who supported Saddam's invasion in the early 1990s war but were then brutally suppressed by the Kuwaiti government. They supported the invasion because the Kuwaiti state had never given them full rights, never looked like it would.

However, some Gulf states, in particular Qatar, seem to turn a blind eye to their nationality laws if the migrant is a top-class Kenyan athlete.

Germany has notoriously difficult citizenship laws too.

Back to the title of the Topic rather than the OP's original rant: did anyone go to any of the events to celebrate Africa Day? (official day of the African Union) I know there were a good few events here in Limerick, including a diversity debate at Mungret GAA club. However their timing of the events wasn't helped given that it was the same weekend as the Heineken Cup final.