Government to make a killing on rising pump prices just as they did with stamp duty.

Run_to_da_hills

Just as the Government made a killing out of stamp duty on the property market at ther expense of struggling home owners they are now about to cash in on the rising diesel prices. With prices now rising above 1.50 a Liter and no let go. There is no give in of lowering the tax which is based on a precentage of the pump price we pay.

Elessar

I was going to reply and argue with you over the fact you think rising costs are the governments responsiblility but to be honest I can't be bothered.

So yeah, damn fianna fail and their attempts to run the country! :mad:

L1011

This isn't the UK - the majority of fuel duty is a fixed price *not* a percentage. Only the VAT increases with the cost.

Don't believe *anything* you read in the Daily Mail (as this sounds like one of their scare stories based on taking a UK article and dropping some references to Ireland in it). If they tell you the sky is blue, its actually green, right...

JHMEG

MYOB wrote: »

Only the VAT increases with the cost.

The same applies with stamp duty. The OP is correct in that the VAT (a tax) take is going up for the govt with rising prices.

What irks me is not so much the rising VAT, but the fact that we are the most dependent country on oil in Europe and the govt are doing sfa to get us away from that. Which I think is deliberate as rising fuel prices are easy money for them.

niceirishfella

The government is like a casino in Las Vegas..............the house always wins.

mickdw

So is this right, They take a set figure per litre and then VAT at a percentage of the sale price?
If this is right it means they are double taxing again just like the VRT as they are charging VAT on a price which includes a huge tax figure already.

Run_to_da_hills

JHMEG wrote: »

The same applies with stamp duty. The OP is correct in that the VAT (a tax) take is going up for the govt with rising prices.

Only those that can claim the VAT back will escape any tax increases. This will also encourage more and more smaller businesses and sole traders to become VAT registered. The average joe soap and commuter will be hit.

Gregor Samsa

niceirishfella wrote: »

The government is like a casino in Las Vegas..............the house always wins.

Except that in the case of the Government the "house" uses that money to pay for all the essential services of the country. But don't let the facts get in the way of a bad metaphor. :rolleyes:

Run_to_da_hills

phutyle wrote: »

Except that in the case of the Government the "house" uses that money to pay for all the essential services of the country. But don't let the facts get in the way of a bad metaphor. :rolleyes:

Essential services like flying Brian Cowen to a rugby match in Wales in the Government jet at our expense.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/taoiseach-tackled-for-rugby-trip-on--government-jet-1387001.html

NinjaTruncs

I can't see anything being done about the increasing cost of fuel. With the short fall in expected Stamp duty and VRT intake this year, the need the money to come from somewhere. The gov will just say there is nothing they can do about it as they don't control the cost of oil.

Captain Slow

If the government can't do anything about the cost of fuel, well, to have so so many frastrated motorists on the road everyday is not a good thing either. If they don't find a way out of this, it is gonna be their problem at the end of day or their term anyway.

niceirishfella

The Gov get 50 to 55% take on each litle of fuel bought at (end user)retail end.....so for diesel @ 1.43 per litre, they claw in 78.65cent per litre.

on a fill of 60 litres in your car/suv - thats 47.19 (approx)paid in tax on your tank full.

its makes me feel a bit sick tbh.

niceirishfella

phutyle wrote: »

Except that in the case of the Government the "house" uses that money to pay for all the essential services of the country. But don't let the facts get in the way of a bad metaphor. :rolleyes:

bad metaphor?:D
Its better than the one you came up with.........ohhh, yeah....you don't even have one?:(

unkel

niceirishfella wrote: »

The Gov get 50 to 55% take on each litle of fuel bought at (end user)retail end.....so for diesel @ 1.43 per litre, they claw in 78.65cent per litre.

As others have said, that's not the way it works. The government get a fixed amount per litre in excise duty. They do get more VAT as the fuel price increases though...

JHMEG

unkel wrote: »

As others have said, that's not the way it works. The government get a fixed amount per litre in excise duty. They do get more VAT as the fuel price increases though...

Excise is 44.27c per litre of petrol and 36.81c for diesel. The National Oil Reserves Agency gets another 1c (whoever they are, probably related to the PMPA:rolleyes:).

VAT is more visible since it's related to purchase price.
At 99c a litre for petrol the govt gets 17.18c in VAT, total take= 62.45c
At 139c a litre the govt gets 24.12c in VAT, total take= 68.39c

niceirishfella

unkel wrote: »

As others have said, that's not the way it works. The government get a fixed amount per litre in excise duty. They do get more VAT as the fuel price increases though...

I'm speaking loosly here of 50 to 55% tax take per litre.......it is the way it works......and sure the percentage take increases with the rise of the price. Thats basic economics.

NinjaTruncs

Actually the % take decreases the higher the cost goes. only slightly though.

ardmacha

The government needs to raise revenue and VAT is a simple tax, a percentage of expenditure. There is no reason to fiddle with it because of price changes, the price change goes to the providers of the product, some prices go up and some go down. If strawberries become cheaper in June should an extra tax be placed on them because they are cheaper?

Seth Brundle

VAT must (under EU law IIRC) be added to the price of fuel - I have a feeling that it has to be at the highest rate of VAT but someone who is familiar with tax law can confirm.
As for reducing it (assuming they can), should they reduce it when the prices go up further? When do they stop reducing it?
The green party would also have a baby if their government 'partners' reduced the rate of tax on a carbon fuel!

galwaytt

kbannon wrote: »

VAT must (under EU law IIRC) be added to the price of fuel - I have a feeling that it has to be at the highest rate of VAT but someone who is familiar with tax law can confirm.
As for reducing it (assuming they can), should they reduce it when the prices go up further? When do they stop reducing it?
The green party would also have a baby if their government 'partners' reduced the rate of tax on a carbon fuel!

I don't know about the 'have to charge top rate' part, but 21% is a ludicrous rate in any case.

If they want to save the country some hardship, a simple across-the-board to a more EU like VAT rate - say 17% - would go a long way to kick starting the economy. And, as we all know, tax reduction always generates business activity, and therefore increase actual tax take.........

JHMEG

kbannon wrote: »

VAT must (under EU law IIRC) be added to the price of fuel - I have a feeling that it has to be at the highest rate of VAT but someone who is familiar with tax law can confirm.
As for reducing it (assuming they can)

They can reduce the excise duty at the stroke of a pen.

mikemac

galwaytt wrote: »

If they want to save the country some hardship, a simple across-the-board to a more EU like VAT rate - say 17% - would go a long way to kick starting the economy. And, as we all know, tax reduction always generates business activity, and therefore increase actual tax take.........

They dropped it from 21% to 20% a few years ago and nobody saves any money. Business just jacked up their prices so it made sense to bring it back to 21%.

You are suggesting dropping it 4%. Most people would be lucky to a fraction of that saving when they buy products.
Sure we were told the abolition of the ban of below cost selling would slash the prices of many goods like bread and milk, how that's going? :rolleyes:

JIMSTARK

Well that is the job of the government.

They live off the people, what do you expect.

You pay 60% of your income in direct and stealth taxes. What do you get in return?

A police state, no health service, a group of fat cats lording it up over the people, no waste collection and soon water and carbon charges.

Things are only getting going. Wait to this green movement stops the talk and reveals the iron fist.

JIMSTARK

Elessar wrote: »

So yeah, damn fianna fail and their attempts to run the country! :mad:

Look they are doing exactly what they intend. The government is not here to make you life easier.

Forget the propaganda and look at the reality.

The masses are sheep, and sheep get sheared.

Seth Brundle

JHMEG wrote: »

They can reduce the excise duty at the stroke of a pen.

But the excise duty is a fixed amount and quite small overall. VAT is the killer in terms of taxes on fuel.

unkel

niceirishfella wrote: »

and sure the percentage take increases with the rise of the price

Wrong again

niceirishfella wrote: »

Thats basic economics.

You shouldn't have provoked an economist

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Actually the % take decreases the higher the cost goes. only slightly though.

Indeed!

Simple example. Lets take a base price of €0.60 vs €0.80 per litre. Add to both €0.40 of duty and 21% VAT on top of that. The total tax take as a percentage of the inclusive price is 50% and 45% respectively. So the higher the base price, the lower the tax take (relatively)

niceirishfella

unkel wrote: »

Wrong again



You shouldn't have provoked an economist



Indeed!

Simple example. Lets take a base price of €0.60 vs €0.80 per litre. Add to both €0.40 of duty and 21% VAT on top of that. The total tax take as a percentage of the inclusive price is 50% and 45% respectively. So the higher the base price, the lower the tax take (relatively)

I'm not too worried:D:D. And I'm not a provoker:D:D - as for knowing it all cos your an economist/moderator, well i had an accountant on here recently telling me and everyone else what he thought he knew about VRT - turns out he was wrong and humbly apologized here on boards.
all good fun tho':p

junkyard

Would the last person to leave the country please turn off the lights! I'm seriously thinking of leaving this country, the place is going from bad to worse, it's a real case of the "lunatics are running the aslyum" they spend millions on advisors and listen to nobody. Not only have they killed the fishing industry, farming, health and currently the motor industry but everything else is going too cost more with the cost of diesel. I just can't believe how these idiots are left run anything to be honest.:mad:

niceirishfella

No...leave the fooking lights on - just to piss off the Greens!

towel401

niceirishfella wrote: »

No...leave the fooking lights on - just to piss off the Greens!

lol

E92

I'm all for leaving them off when unnecessary: it's wasting oil that could be used to power cars:)!