Surfing Maps Stay - No further discussion on this

vegaluca

FuzzyLogic wrote: »

To clarify: No threats were made.
And also the above poster is clearly a loon.

Suggest that this thread either be locked or deleted. Its over and done with now, put this thing to bed, and have that new map thread that someone has started here (boston?) just deleted or closed. Theres some bad advice/safety issues WRT it.

Back to the status quo of no agression, lets just delete the bloody threads, including this one which is full of useless slander about various parties and people.

...

Stark

Morf3h wrote:

In nearly every facet of life, be it from your favourite restaurant, favourite path to walk every evening, favourite beach or in this case, favourite place to surf, everyone likes to have some sort of belonging to something. Some place/thing to call their own. While it is a fact of life that you can't hold secrets for ever, it is in human nature to hold something dear to them.

We don't go about threatening people who talk about our favourite restaurants or walks.

Morf3h wrote:

Think of it this way: You have a lovely Italian restaurant down the road where you go regularly. The owner knows you name and you see the same people in there from time to time and it's doing a great business. You think of it as "your little secret". After a while word gets out about the restaurant, random tourists start crowding it looses it's sense of uniqueness. This sounds awfully cheesy but I'm sure you can get my point. The same thing is happening here regarding the surfers.

Yes, but most of us wouldn't descend to the level of common thugs and start using intimidation to try and keep the tourists away.

Morf3h

Stark wrote: »

Like when you go skiing and the slopes are divided into green, blue, red and black slopes.

Hi Stark,

You've picked up on a very good point here. This is possibly what the ISA should be trying to achieve here. Green/Blue, Red and Black surf spots.

However, the Skiing Authorities or Piste Authorities do not mark out the brilliant off piste around the back of Val d'Isere in France, or the amazing descent down La Grave in Les Deux Alpes, they are for experts only and these places, although not secret anymore, are nowhere to be found on maps.

I think this kind of compromise is what surfers would agree on, although it really is something the ISA should be constructing.

Ste05

paudie wrote: »

Ok I will replace "rules" with etiquette.

I have no problem with people coming into the sport, I'm actually a surf instructor, so I make money from people learning to surf, why would I want to stop that? I think that is the best way for people to learn about surfing, in a structured and supervised environment.

Don't think you'll get anyone disagreeing with you there.

paudie wrote: »

I know there is no point in trying to stop every surf map and guide that pops up, but the content of these should be moderated.

Again this is what we've been saying the whole time, why don't you take some time and have a look through the map and anywhere you think inaccuracies exist, PM RB or Boston, or maybe even take over a part of the moderation of it yourself, or propose someone who IYO would have the adequate knowledge needed.

paudie wrote: »

The best way forward with this as far asI can tell is to indicate to people where the main surfing beachs and schools are and then let the surfing community dictate how the surfers progress.

When you say the best way forward (meaning how things should change), do you actually mean it's best to just keep things exactly as they are now?? Keep the newcomers on the "main surfing beaches" and keep the "secret spots" to yourselves?? It doesn't go anywhere near addressing the points raised. I fail to see how it's relevant to these maps? People will still be heading out and if they somehow magically happen to come across the ocean and spot somewhere that looks good, and if this spot happens to be a dangerous "secret spot" and they have no independent way of finding out the dangers of the area, or should they be ringing their trainer/teacher forever asking about certain areas they may come across??

Also, the surfing community shouldn't be dictating how others do anything, they should be guiding and assisting, but I assume this is just another bad choice of words, so I won't highlight it too much.

paudie wrote: »

Did I read correctly that the two guys making the map don't even surf?
Why would they want to bother putting the map together then?

For the good of the people not currently in the right "clique" whom have no intention of ever sharing this information. I'd be fairly certain they'd both hand the reins over in a heartbeat, should someone with genuine interest in the sport and spreading the information wanted to become involved.

Dinner

paudie wrote: »

Did I read correctly that the two guys making the map don't even surf?
Why would they want to bother putting the map together then?

Why? I thought the answer was clear enough by now.

Freedom of Information is the primary reason that the internet is as good as it is. The whole web is based on people sharing information. Youtube, Wikipedia and even boards are based on this idea.

Trying to suppress information that should be freely available goes against the etiquette of the internet.

Morf3h

Stark wrote: »

We don't go about threatening people who talk about our favourite restaurants or walks.



Yes, but most of us wouldn't descend to the level of common thugs and start using intimidation to try and keep the tourists away.

Neither does the majority of the surfing community. Please remember that three/four guys are not representative of an entire population of surfers. If you check some of the threads in surfing forums, you'll see a decent bit of banter and genuine interest in helping people get out on the water.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

javaboy

Morf3h wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Long time surfer here, not so much in Ireland but that's irrelevant here.

Firstly, the guys who attacked Fuzzy are w@nkers. Please try to ignore them, and try to appreciate that the world is full of assh0les and that will never change.

Secondly, I really hope that you take Viking and Gandalf's posts (as well as the numerous other serious and sincere ones from other people in this thread and elsewhere) into consideration regarding the map. The ISA is there for a reason and if anyone should be trying to construct an educational/informative map of the Surfing spots in Ireland, shouldn't it be them? At least that way they can be held accountable for the information they provide.

In nearly every facet of life, be it from your favourite restaurant, favourite path to walk every evening, favourite beach or in this case, favourite place to surf, everyone likes to have some sort of belonging to something. Some place/thing to call their own. While it is a fact of life that you can't hold secrets for ever, it is in human nature to hold something dear to them.

Think of it this way: You have a lovely Italian restaurant down the road where you go regularly. The owner knows you name and you see the same people in there from time to time and it's doing a great business. You think of it as "your little secret". After a while word gets out about the restaurant, random tourists start crowding it looses it's sense of uniqueness. This sounds awfully cheesy but I'm sure you can get my point. The same thing is happening here regarding the surfers.

If the ISA thinks certain beaches are too dangerous, let them inform the general public and beginner surfers in general, for they are the governing body.

I implore the boards.ie team to please be the bigger person in this altercation and pass all previously obtained information to the ISA for further consideration.

Lastly, although i cannot in anyway speak for the entire Irish surfing community, I would like to apologize for the way Fuzzylogic was treated, and hope that boards.ie can help encourage the growth of surfing in Ireland.

I know it's human nature to want to keep something to yourself sometimes but the issue most people have here (ignoring the threats) is that there is a group of people who surf and have surfed on certain spots. The sport is getting more popular and they want to keep the spot as their little secret. Many of the people here have tried to muddy the waters by saying it's a safety issue or a litter issue or something else but it boils down to selfishness. I think that's why you're seeing such a backlash from non-surfers. They resent the attitude displayed by a lot of surfers here.

Nobody has convinced me this is about safety.

I am convinced this is about keeping your bit of the beach to yourself and everything else is just misdirection.

You say the ISA is the one that should be doing this if anybody should but they don't want to. They would rather preserve the status quo of keeping secrets spots secret. There's a clash of ideologies here and nobody's going to change their mind on it.

If responsibility for the map was given to the ISA, they would just bin it. There are a lot of people who don't agree with the cloak and dagger approach and so they made a public map. It's going to stay public and any serious surfer or knowledgeable member of the ISA who actually gives a damn about safety will realise that and pass any relevant safety information onto Rb or Boston.

btw I do appreciate that you're another one of the level headed surfers.

Earthhorse

Morf3h wrote: »

The ISA is there for a reason and if anyone should be trying to construct an educational/informative map of the Surfing spots in Ireland, shouldn't it be them? At least that way they can be held accountable for the information they provide.

Shouldn't it? What's stopping them? Nobody here, that's for sure.

Morf3h wrote: »

If the ISA thinks certain beaches are too dangerous, let them inform the general public and beginner surfers in general, for they are the governing body.

I implore the boards.ie team to please be the bigger person in this altercation and pass all previously obtained information to the ISA for further consideration.

Like I say, no one is stopping the ISA doing anything. There is no need to pass the information over. It is publicly available. The ISA have access to it like anyone else and can copy and use it as they see fit.

humanji

vegaluca wrote: »

...

Fuzzy was wrong with that statement. He may not of taken it as a threat, but it was a threat. The poster put up a picture of him and his details and told the disgruntled surfers that this was the person responsible. That is a threat!

Beruthiel

paudie wrote: »

I know there is no point in trying to stop every surf map and guide that pops up, but the content of these should be moderated.

Then feel free to click the link in my signature and up date the info accordingly by ranking the beaches.
I am more than willing to change all maps posted on the surfing forum when you forward me that information.

stevenmu

Up on digg now aswell

http://digg.com/extreme_sports/Map_of_Secret_Surfing_Locations_in_Ireland

Anti

Okay, I think this has gone on long enough now. It seems that we have ourselfs two different bunch of surfers in ireland.

1. The complete twats, that act like children
2. The ones that are concerned about saftey at some of the locations.

Now i can personally understand not wanting to let the more dangerous spots be known, but would it not be better to just let people know its dangerous, then to let some less-experienced surfer stumble upon it ?

With the help of the more friendly surfers, and the users from boards.ie (RB+Boston ét all) surfing in ireland can actually be made alot better and safer. Its something we shoudl be working on, instead of fighting over it.

Boston

Vikings wrote: »

I'm inclined to agree with paudies comment above. This is from a neutral with no association with surfing whatsoever - can hardly swim as it is!

...

Whatever about "rules" within the surfing community - if safety is everyone heres primary concern (which I doubt somewhat) then something like this should be undertaken by the ISA. Or better yet, forward this information to the Irish Sports Council and make them aware of the shortcomings of the ISA for not undertaking this project already - make them aware of the dangers as they are the ones who give grants to the ISA. Again, this is if safety is everyones main concern as they are making it out to be.

As I understand it the ISA are already aware of this map. Anyone who can view the map can copy it so they have a copy of the map if they want one. Didn't the ISA get fined for refusing to host a world event. The reason being to protect secret spots.

I remember the St finnian's bay incident afew months back. When I looked for a B&B in the area several mentioned the great surfing spot with no indication of danger. This is a problem, the ISA know its a problem, and they do nothing about it.

paudie wrote: »

Ok I will replace "rules" with etiquette.

I have no problem with people coming into the sport, I'm actually a surf instructor, so I make money from people learning to surf, why would I want to stop that? I think that is the best way for people to learn about surfing, in a structured and supervised environment.

I know there is no point in trying to stop every surf map and guide that pops up, but the content of these should be moderated. The best way forward with this as far asI can tell is to indicate to people where the main surfing beachs and schools are and then let the surfing community dictate how the surfers progress.

Did I read correctly that the two guys making the map don't even surf?
Why would they want to bother putting the map together then?

Would you be willing to provide the locations of the main schools on a google map and I'll add them to our map.

Hobbes

Morf3h wrote: »

Some place/thing to call their own. While it is a fact of life that you can't hold secrets for ever, it is in human nature to hold something dear to them.

Someone said earlier that the information would mean that new surfers would pick dangerous spots, get hurt and boards.ie would get sued.

Not actually true but lets turn it the other way around based on keeping stuff secret.

Lets say for arguments sake that boards removes the map and hands it over to the ISA. What would that accomplish? They would keep spots secret? They would make it more public? If they make it more public it is no different then what is happening now.

Lets say they respect the wishes of the unwritten rule and make it secret. Now lets say a new surfer finds a beach and checks with the ISA to see what it is like?

Are they going to tell them? If they do, then how is that any different then what is happening now?

If they don't tell the surfer any information and the surfer is seriously injured and it is later found out that ISA suppressed the information. What do you think the legal implications for ISA would be?

DeVore

There is nothing Boards can (or wants to) do about this map. Its maintained by two people who are not connected to us at all and even if they were, I can tell you catagorically that if I were to tell Boston/RB to stop, they would quite definitely NOT.

Welcome to the 21st century.... I've been trying to explain that to you for several posts.





So... now what?

DeV.

Hobbes

DeVore wrote: »

So... now what?

DeV.

cat pictures? :pac:

Steve

A question for the mapkeepers:

Surfer A says that location x is a great spot, safe and fun for all, no problems with tides / rips / rocks.

Surfer B says the exact opposite and its dangerous.

Which comment goes on the map?
How do you decide which comment is accurate?

What's to stop the 'sekrit surfers' giving you misinformation and turning the map into a farce?

Just curious as to how y'all see it going forward.

Beruthiel

I iz on ur sea
stealin ur waves

/I wish I could photoshop

Sherifu

So this is what 'no further discussion' looks like.

BlitzKrieg

Which comment goes on the map?
How do you decide which comment is accurate?

Both I assume, I'd say it works like any other review system, if the person has any sense they will compare the comments to comments by the same surfers at different locations and the one thats more consistent is probably the more accurate

pvt.joker

Stark

Beruthiel wrote: »

/I wish I could photoshop

You don't need photoshop

http://www.kscakes.com/LolCats/

ReefBreak

Recent events on the surfing forum will unfortunately mean that most intermediate or experienced surfers will now not read or respond to requests from beginners looking for advice on that new board, technique, accomodation, travel, etc. This is not an attack on the Boards.ie, just an obvious statement of fact.

And it's a shame because most posters on this forum are beginners looking for advice on that new board, technique, accomodation, travel, etc. But there you go.

Toto Wolfcastle

ReefBreak wrote: »

Recent events on the surfing forum will unfortunately mean that most intermediate or experienced surfers will now not read or respond to requests from beginners looking for advice on that new board, technique, accomodation, travel, etc. This is not an attack on the Boards.ie, just an obvious statement of fact.

And it's a shame because most posters on this forum are beginners looking for advice on that new board, technique, accomodation, travel, etc. But there you go.

It's a shame alright, but it's also a sad reflection on those people.

Hobbes

stevec wrote: »

Which comment goes on the map?

Both do.

How do you decide which comment is accurate?

That is the wonders of social based systems.

What's to stop the 'sekrit surfers' giving you misinformation and turning the map into a farce?

It is a good question and tbh would just make them look as bad as they are making themselves out to be.

The truth is the likes of Wikipedia, Digg and others have to deal with these sort of muppets on daily basis. Yet they work well.

Recent events on the surfing forum will unfortunately mean that most intermediate or experienced surfers will now not read or respond to requests from beginners looking for advice

More likely the demographic of those in a huff won't read it. There are many others who surf who don't agree with it. In fact even a casual google you can see that the claim of "secret spots" being canon law is bullsh!t.

stevenmu

Some people will be ok with the idea of posting secret spots, they will be able to post here, some will not be ok with that idea and they can do their thing somewhere else. A choice is a wonderful thing.

Gordon

stevenmu wrote: »

Up on digg now aswell

http://digg.com/extreme_sports/Map_of_Secret_Surfing_Locations_in_Ireland

Up on google.com now too.

pvt.joker

Gordon wrote: »

Up on google.com now too.

good work

DeVore

I think you will find that the new surfers will be form their own "sub"-community and develop their own social structures etc. So, welcome to the Balkanisation of surfing...

DeV.