Surfing Maps Stay - No further discussion on this

pvt.joker

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

ok

slightly confused here


the general consensus from the surfer's against the map is that its

A) for safety

its the code for all surfers


then explain this please:

http://www.surfing-waves.com/

They have a map

they have a rating system

they put up surfing spots across the world and put up risk warnings, advice, descriptions and even photos.

Now here's a shovel, you want to start digging?

Great post. Shows the Irish surfing community (or at least the ones who posted here) up for what they really are.
Their ulterior motive isn't fooling anyone.

Well done Rb and Boston for putting the effort into making this map and let's hope it becomes a valuable resource for all surfing enthuasiasts.

BlitzKrieg

maybe pass that map onto that website aswell, they dont have much for ireland atm.

pvt.joker

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

maybe pass that map onto that website aswell, they dont have much for ireland atm.

Good idea, done.






"
Hi,

I don't know if this is of interest to you but here is an excellent map of Ireland with all the best breaks and surfing spots.
It has just been created by the Irish surfing community, feel free to use it on your site.

Great site by the way

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&hl=en&msa=0&ll=53.735716,-7.470703&spn=4.54314,14.458008&t=h&z=7&msid=112891371932527509525.00044e5f13b9666b12191
"

cornbb

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

then explain this please:

http://www.surfing-waves.com/

They have a map

they have a rating system

they put up surfing spots across the world and put up risk warnings, advice, descriptions and even photos.

Now here's a shovel, you want to start digging?

There are a lot of websites out there that feature such information (and they are a fantastic resource) but they generally only deal with widely-known spots.

As much as I endorse the sharing of this information, and I admire the boards admins for sticking by their guns, I think a lot of people here don't understand the delicacy around this issue. Yes, we had a lot of **** on here who said things they shouldn't. But thousands of people, probably including hundreds of surfers, will read all this and next time a boards.ie member hits the water they may end up looking over their shoulders out of paranoia. A lot of you are celebrating the fact that "we won", whereas this affair will reflect extremely badly on boards.ie's Surfing forum overall.

I think Dev understands these issues pretty well given his snowboarding background, but I think we would be better off letting the matter quietly drop (with the Google Map link intact for anyone to see). boards.ie is a huge entity, a very powerful one in many respects, but I think it would be wrong and presumptuous for the general (non-surfing) population of the site to set about attempting to influence Irish surf culture due to the actions of a small number of stupid, ill-spirited assholes.

Incidentally Dev, another post has been reported in the Surfing forum, you may want to look at it and deal with it as you see fit.

Ste05

cornbb wrote: »

There are a lot of websites out there that feature such information (and they are a fantastic resource) but they generally only deal with widely-known spots.

As much as I endorse the sharing of this information, and I admire the boards admins for sticking by their guns, I think a lot of people here don't understand the delicacy around this issue. Yes, we had a lot of **** on here who said things they shouldn't. But thousands of people, probably including hundreds of surfers, will read all this and next time a boards.ie member hits the water they may end up looking over their shoulders out of paranoia.

Really?? Is the Irish surfing community really this militant and full of scumbags??

If we don't understand the delicacies of the situation would you mind giving us a quick reasoning why these spots should remain secret??

cornbb

Ste05 wrote: »

Really?? Is the Irish surfing community really this militant and full of scumbags??

If we don't understand the delicacies of the situation would you mind giving us a quick reasoning why these spots should remain secret??

Read my post properly :rolleyes:

I agree that the map should remain public, I am saying that boards.ie's Surfing forum would be better off if the rest of the site's population didn't take things any further.

The Irish surfing community is not full of scumbags, but we have had a small number of people here who have threatened physical harm to our members.

pvt.joker

cornbb wrote: »

hundreds of surfers will read all this and next time a boards.ie member hits the water they may end up looking over their shoulders out of paranoia.

That says everything we need to know about the Irish surfing "community" :rolleyes:

You just don't know when to stop threatening do you?

Rb

cornbb wrote: »

Read my post properly :rolleyes:

I agree that the map should remain public, I am saying that boards.ie's Surfing forum would be better off if the rest of the site's population didn't take things any further.

The Irish surfing community is not full of scumbags, but we have had a small number of people here who have threatened physical harm to our members.

What I would love to know right now is why the LBI forums have suddenly been made private and aren't accepting new registrations, along with what's being posted there about Boards and/or it's members. Suspect to say the very least.

Oh and I absolutely agree that these people shouldn't be taken as representatives of the entire Irish surfing community. I believe Cpoh when he said they're an elitist little group from the country who have high beliefs in their abilities and think they own the place.

What'd be good now is if everyone who expressed their concerns about spots being named and mapped for safety reasons contacted myself or Boston with descriptions of areas, ratings etc. I've yet to receive one pm about it. Have edited one spot as recommended by Crash, but that's it. I believe Lightening will get onto me in the near future about other spots too.

cornbb

pvt.joker wrote: »

That says everything we need to know about the Irish surfing "community" :rolleyes:

You just don't know when to stop threatening do you?

>.<

Read my posts, I'm on your side.

cornbb

Rb wrote: »

What I would love to know right now is why the LBI forums have suddenly been made private and aren't accepting new registrations, along with what's being posted there about Boards and/or it's members. Suspect to say the very least.

Yeah I pointed that out to the admins earlier. I don't plan on surfing in Kerry wearing a boards badge anytime soon.

Ginger

Knowing cornbb as I do, I dont think it was meant in the way you are implying (or that I am reading it in my head that you think you meant .. wow weird!)

pvt.joker

Ginger wrote: »

Knowing cornbb as I do, I dont think it was meant in the way you are implying (or that I am reading it in my head that you think you meant .. wow weird!)

fair point, i take back my statement.

can anyone from LBI come on here and explain why theyve gone private and not accepting new regristations?

Hobbes

cornbb wrote: »

Yeah I pointed that out to the admins earlier. I don't plan on surfing in Kerry wearing a boards badge anytime soon.

I don't think you have anything to worry about. As I understand it the Surfing community care about peoples safety. :rolleyes:

cornbb

Ginger wrote: »

Knowing cornbb as I do, I dont think it was meant in the way you are implying (or that I am reading it in my head that you think you meant .. wow weird!)

Thanks Ginger

I was pointing out that boards.ie regulars who surf may not be as comfortable in the water as they were before this debacle, knowing that there have been people on here threatening harm to boards.ie members. At the very least they won't be comfortable revealing their boards.ie affiliations. And that does not bode well for boards' Surfing forum.

I'm not advocating violence in the slightest. Just to make that absolutely clear!

Edit: or maybe I'm just being paranoid? Oh who cares, I rarely surf at lesser-known spots anyway and the locals at the ones I've been at have been nice anyhoo..

RuggieBear

I think a new user needs to be glenstalled...
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=56087124&postcount=3

Ste05

cornbb wrote: »

Read my post properly :rolleyes:

I agree that the map should remain public, I am saying that boards.ie's Surfing forum would be better off if the rest of the site's population didn't take things any further.

The Irish surfing community is not full of scumbags, but we have had a small number of people here who have threatened physical harm to our members.

So it may not be full of scumbags (I didn't think it was BTW), but if a small minority has this kind of control over the sport, do you not think the naming of some "secret spots" isn't the biggest issue facing your community?? If you are genuinely worried about being known as a boards member, it really speaks VOLUMES, do you not think the people who spread this kind of fear throughout your community need to be removed from whatever position they are in,

But additionally even someone as reasonable as yourself, seems to be perpetuating and fully endorsing the exclusionary and "private" nature of the community, but not answering the question asked. So I'll ask it again, is there any logical and non selfish reason for keeping these "secret spots" secret?? Myself and alot of other posters here are completely confused and it really is painting your community in a very bad light.

Hobbes

RuggieBear wrote: »

I think a new user needs to be glenstalled...
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=56087124&postcount=3

I think we can be safe to say that if a boards.ie person was to be beaten this would be the first guy on the list the cops would pay a visit to.

lightening

DeVore wrote: »

This is probably pearls before swine to be honest and I'm addressing this to the surfers who HAVENT been dicks.

Nope... all makes sense. To be honest, the big reef breaks that the very experienced surfers to to are miles out. You have to be really good to even get the point where take off zone is.

I have a feeling the ones who are bitterly defending their breaks from outsiders are not serious surfers, but intermediates (like me) who simply just don't want outsiders in their area.

This happens in Australia, Spain, South Africa... everywhere. It even happens in Indonesia, white surfers threatening others who teach the locals how to surf or leave them their old boards.

My feelings are that just cause it happens elsewhere, doesn't mean it has to happen here. My gripe is with localism.

Failte. :mad:

Gandalf23

cornbb wrote: »

There are a lot of websites out there that feature such information (and they are a fantastic resource) but they generally only deal with widely-known spots.

I think Dev understands these issues pretty well given his snowboarding background, but I think we would be better off letting the matter quietly drop (with the Google Map link intact for anyone to see). boards.ie is a huge entity, a very powerful one in many respects, but I think it would be wrong and presumptuous for the general (non-surfing) population of the site to set about attempting to influence Irish surf culture due to the actions of a small number of stupid, ill-spirited assholes.

This is one of the best posts in this thread so far ... agree 1000%.

This mapping project by boston/rb is misguided and dangerous. Have a look at all the posts in this thread from people who actually have knowledge of surfing ... I'd say most are against this.

It goes against established worldwide surfing wisdom and etiquette. With the greatest respect to all who have made comment to the contrary here, its very arrogant and misguided to go against this wisdom when you dont have detailed knowledge of the sport.

I'd also like to know how long boston and rb are prepared to stay involved in this mapping project? Are they willing to give the long-term commitment this project deserves to make the map information reliable, safe and up to date? Or is this something they will get bored by and drop as soon as the next feedback thread comes along. Readers will decide for themselves.

Please do the right thing and pass all information and maps to the ISA and let the dedicated experts take things from here.

This is a misguided, misinformed, and potentially dangerous project.

Ganteng

I'm a surfer.

I agree with Gandalf23- things have been taken too far in the other direction.

Obviously threats are a disgraceful way to deal with anything, and that sort of behaviour is abhorrent.

However, to go on a naming spots crusade in order to show that you "aren't scared" is the wrong thing to do.

It's just as easy to go overboard in trying to "punish" these people by posting hundreds of spots as it was for them to threaten fuzzylogic online. It's not heroic to post these spots, as many of you seem to think.

Earthhorse

Enygma wrote: »

Maybe they could hand over the map to the ISA?

What? And let them get their hands on the precious treasure?

Never!

Gandalf23 wrote: »

It goes against established worldwide surfing wisdom and etiquette. With the greatest respect to all who have made comment to the contrary here, its very arrogant and misguided to go against this wisdom when you dont have detailed knowledge of the sport.

I haven't seen one post form anyone, surfer or otherwise, explaining what's so unique about surfing as opposed to any other dangerous sport or activity that explains what appears to be a singular practise.

Rb

Gandalf23 wrote: »

This is one of the best posts in this thread so far ... agree 1000%.

This mapping project by boston/rb is misguided and dangerous. Have a look at all the posts in this thread from people who actually have knowledge of surfing ... I'd say most are against this.

It goes against established worldwide surfing wisdom and etiquette. With the greatest respect to all who have made comment to the contrary here, its very arrogant and misguided to go against this wisdom when you dont have detailed knowledge of the sport.

I'd also like to know how long boston and rb are prepared to stay involved in this mapping project? Are they willing to give the long-term commitment this project deserves to make the map information reliable, safe and up to date? Or is this something they will get bored by and drop as soon as the next feedback thread comes along. Readers will decide for themselves.

Please do the right thing and pass all information and maps to the ISA and let the dedicated experts take things from here.

This is a misguided, misinformed, and potentially dangerous project.

You're only against it because I'm involved so I think I'll do the right thing and ignore your suggestions.

As I said before, which is more dangerous: Getting the spots named and mapped, along with a description and rating, or everyone keeping their mouth shut and hoping a newer surfer doesn't stumble across a dangerous spot and get themselves hurt? I think you'll find it's the former.

Also, DeV addressed you on the matter which you appear to have chosen to ignore. Picking out the parts of the thread that suit and ignoring the rest, eh? Says a lot.

leninbenjamin

Gandalf23 wrote: »

This is a misguided, misinformed, and potentially dangerous project.

you can't prevent it occurring. such is the internet. but you can assist it, and help make it a safer and more informative source of information. it would be best for all if the surfing community chose the latter. please see the bigger picture.

Ganteng

OK, I'm an experienced surfer, been doing it for 6 years, so I'll try to explain secret spots.

Firstly, I understand a lot of non-surfers' attitudes towards this: It seemed ridiculous to me when I started surfing that there were these "secret spots" that you couldn't tell anyone about.
It's a free world, so why not let everyone know?

1) There's a safety aspect, as has been mentioned earlier. Every surfer knowing about a wave, regardless of it's reputation as dangerous, will inevitably lead to inexperienced people being tempted into going out there.

I did this before too, and it seems obvious to me that people KNOWING about it are more likely to surf it than if it's secret and people don't know where it is. The argument was made that people might turn up, look at it not knowing it's dangerous, and try to surf it. This is highly unlikely. Inexperienced surfers in general won't be able to find it, and secondly are hesitant about surfing somewhere they've never heard of before.

2)This is more complicated.

Surfing isn't just about having every spot in a guidebook. It's about getting to know your local area, the tides, winds, etc., and when different spots will have good waves in different conditions.
It's about searching for waves, and hopefully having them to yourself and a few friends as reward for the hard work you've put in.

It's hard to describe, but searching for waves and having a quiet place that doesn't have the flocks of people that throng Lahinch, etc. is a crucial part of surfing.

The thing is that this is impossible to understand if you don't surf, hence the "name every spot" reactions of many posters.

My point is that not naming secret spots is accepted throughout the world by surfing communities. Pretty much every surfer agrees with it and accepts it, and they are the people who should know.

Rb

Ganteng wrote: »

OK, I'm an experienced surfer, been doing it for 6 years, so I'll try to explain secret spots.

Firstly, I understand a lot of non-surfers' attitudes towards this: It seemed ridiculous to me when I started surfing that there were these "secret spots" that you couldn't tell anyone about.
It's a free world, so why not let everyone know?

1) There's a safety aspect, as has been mentioned earlier. Every surfer knowing about a wave, regardless of it's reputation as dangerous, will inevitably lead to inexperienced people being tempted into going out there.

I did this before too, and it seems obvious to me that people KNOWING about it are more likely to surf it than if it's secret and people don't know where it is. The argument was made that people might turn up, look at it not knowing it's dangerous, and try to surf it. This is highly unlikely. Inexperienced surfers in general won't be able to find it, and secondly are hesitant about surfing somewhere they've never heard of before.

2)This is more complicated.

Surfing isn't just about having every spot in a guidebook. It's about getting to know your local area, the tides, winds, etc., and when different spots will have good waves in different conditions.
It's about searching for waves, and hopefully having them to yourself and a few friends as reward for the hard work you've put in.

It's hard to describe, but searching for waves and having a quiet place that doesn't have the flocks of people that throng Lahinch, etc. is a crucial part of surfing.

The thing is that this is impossible to understand if you don't surf, hence the "name every spot" reactions of many posters.

My point is that not naming secret spots is accepted throughout the world by surfing communities. Pretty much every surfer agrees with it and accepts it, and they are the people who should know.

Sorry, but the topic really isn't up for discussion anymore. If you agree with it, or disagree with it, it doesn't matter. The admins here have ruled a second time on it, there was a lengthy discussion on it over the past few days in which a group of surfers acted up and ruined it for everyone else. Case is closed, policy is that the spots/maps can be published here so I'm afraid that if you don't agree with it...well, I'm sure there's other websites you can use instead.

davefw1

Rb wrote: »

You're only against it because I'm involved so I think I'll do the right thing and ignore your suggestions.

As I said before, which is more dangerous: Getting the spots named and mapped, along with a description and rating, or everyone keeping their mouth shut and hoping a newer surfer doesn't stumble across a dangerous spot and get themselves hurt? I think you'll find it's the former.

So how does your map help when you have a spot like a pointbreak with a small take-off zone say 20 - 30 ft wide with sets coming through every 2 - 5 minutes. You now have a large number of surfers competing for insufficient waves pushing each other farther and farther up the point closer and closer to the rocks. Inevitably injuries happen and agro starts at overcrowded spots due to misguided arrogant attempts like your map. I've seen numerous formerly quiet spots destroyed by overcrowding due to publications like your map.

Needless to say you haven't a notion about what I'm talking which is exactly why you should not be publishing this map.

Toto Wolfcastle

I don't surf. I'm scared of fish, especially jellyfish. But I do know people who surf, and at the beginning they went looking for new places to surf. Thankfully, they are all safe, but if they had happened upon one of these dangerous secret spots and something had happened to them I'd be pretty pissed off with the surfing community for trying to keep the information secret.

I'm also bloody pissed off that someone would even consider posting someone else's details and threatening them, especially over something so stupid.

The map is there. Get the hell over it and help to make sure safety information is included. If someone gets hurt, as people suggest they will, then it will be those who refused to provide safety information who will be to blame, not Rb or Boston.

Rb

davefw1 wrote: »

So how does your map help when you have a spot like a pointbreak with a small take-off zone say 20 - 30 ft wide with sets coming through every 2 - 5 minutes. You now have a large number of surfers competing for insufficient waves pushing each other farther and farther up the point closer and closer to the rocks. Inevitably injuries happen and agro starts at overcrowded spots due to misguided arrogant attempts like your map. I've numerous formerly quiet spots destroyed by overcrowding due to publications like your map.

Needless to say you haven't a notion about what I'm talking which is exactly why you should not be publishing this map.

Weren't you banned yesterday?

You do know what happens to people who re-register, right?

Edit: From the banlist

29-05-2008, 11:46 davefw NEVER surfer scum not welcome on this site

What do you not get about that? F*ck off and don't come back this time.

Rb

janeybabe wrote: »

I don't surf. I'm scared of fish, especially jellyfish. But I do know people who surf, and at the beginning they went looking for new places to surf. Thankfully, they are all safe, but if they had happened upon one of these dangerous secret spots and something had happened to them I'd be pretty pissed off with the surfing community for trying to keep the information secret.

Which is exactly why as much information as possible about our coastlines/surfing spots/diving spots/etc should be published. Quite horrifying to see some members of the supposed surfing community so against it though. I guess that's what greed and selfishness does to people though, they're only looking out for themselves at the end of the day, who cares about the rest of the community or other surfers safety once they're happy, right?:rolleyes:

janeybabe wrote:

I'm also bloody pissed off that someone would even consider posting someone else's details and threatening them, especially over something so stupid.

The map is there. Get the hell over it and help to make sure safety information is included. If someone gets hurt, as people suggest they will, then it will be those who refused to provide safety information who will be to blame, not Rb or Boston.

Thanks and I fully agree.

Gandalf23

Rb wrote: »

You're only against it because I'm involved so I think I'll do the right thing and ignore your suggestions.

As I said before, which is more dangerous: Getting the spots named and mapped, along with a description and rating, or everyone keeping their mouth shut and hoping a newer surfer doesn't stumble across a dangerous spot and get themselves hurt? I think you'll find it's the former.

Thats not true ... I'm against it because its the wrong thing to do and its potentially dangerous.

Lets put all our differences aside for the remainder of this thread at least ... I'm prepared to if you are. We can start a-feudin' again sometime next week if you still want to.

Let me ask you a something rb ... do you trully believe you have the right motivations here? Are you on this crusade to really make surfing more accessible/safer, or is it as a direct result of the threats to fuzzy? Its very noble of you to attempt to defend a fellow mod, and I can see why you believe you are acting in the best interests of boards.ie ... honestly I can and I admire you for that.

But please ask yourself, do you really know enough about surfing to make a reliable (and safe) judgement call on this? There have been a number of experienced surfers who have contributed to this thread who have said this is the wrong thing to do. Are you really so arrogant that you're prepared to ignore them?

I'd also ask how much effort you're prepared to put into this map. To maintain the map to a standard where the information is relaible, safe and up to date will be a huge job. Are you really prepared to put the required time and effort into this? Lets face it, if you're not prepared to devote significant time and effort to this, the end result will be an incomplete and unsafe map. You're about to take on a lifetimes work that many many people will be depending on.

I appeal to your better judgement here for the last time ... please turn the map and all other info over to the ISA. You and boston have made your point and won!! A stunning victory!!! Now please do the right thing. Please.

Please dont let past interactions between us cloud your judgement in this ... and it's not only me asking you to do this.

Do the right thing man. Do the right thing.