Government and integration-Poles apart?

segaBOY

I think Connor Lenihen's idea of integration is sound on paper-he favours new comers to integrate into Irish society gaining some form of Irishness whilst still retaining some of their old culture-this should avoid scenarios in the UK and elsewhere where multiculturalism has failed miserably with some different minorities barely having any English even after being born in the country.

However, Lenihen's policy seems to be solely aimed at the African and Asian community. I remember RTÉ's "Multicurtural Week" (flawed in the name alone, should be integration, multiculturalism has failed, Lenihen has admitted this and has opted for this policy instead) Just wondering why RTÉ felt it was ok to pretty much exclude all newcomers from Eastern Europe in general? They seemed to air very little time to this section of the community when compared to other smaller minority groups.

Government integration policies also seem to overlook the fact that far more Eastern Europeans have graced our island and added an awful lot to our society and economy.

So I pose this question, is this Government policy not just racist to Eastern European Whites? I sure think so

Fratton Fred

I would hazard a guess and say that integrating white european's from a catholic country is a tad easier than people from Hindu/Muslim countries. That is probably why there is less effort put in to integrating Poles etc.

segaBOY

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I would hazard a guess and say that integrating white european's from a catholic country is a tad easier than people from Hindu/Muslim countries. That is probably why there is less effort put in to integrating Poles etc.

From what I've seen there was practically no effort put in on RTE's behalf. In some parts of the country (especially outside Dublin) there are whole housing estates with only Eastern Europeans living in them (mostly Polish)

I do agree that it is easier for them to integrate-I am very good friends with a few polish guys, can't say the same for other minorities they seem to stick more to themselves

But is it right to completely ignore them? I mean housing estates full of only those from eastern europe-will that do us any good for integration? The government should be ashamed using this selective type of what is essentially racism.

Fratton Fred

Using the Poles as an example, they aren't usually immigrants, they are people who come here to work rather than uproot their whole family and leave the country for good.

There are a lot of Polish TV channels available, I know Meteor do TV adverts in Polish and there are polish films shown in cinemas, but most people who come to work do so with the intention of integrating

segaBOY

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Using the Poles as an example, they aren't usually immigrants, they are people who come here to work rather than uproot their whole family and leave the country for good.

There are a lot of Polish TV channels available, I know Meteor do TV adverts in Polish and there are polish films shown in cinemas, but most people who come to work do so with the intention of integrating

First off they are known as economic immigrants, my brother works in London-he's an economic immigrant in their eyes.

Talking to a Pole last week he said quite a few FAMILIES have come here, also reckons about 20% of Poles will stay for good even if that is just speculation on his part. Point is it's racism not to make an effort to help integrate Poles or anyone who wants to stay and is legal/genuine is seeking residence.

Just because you're not black doesn't mean you don't want to integrate into Irish society, the examples of adverts etc. are not Government supported and won't help Irish attitudes like Africa Day or RTE's multicultural week for example.

I hope you see where I'm coming from instead of just putting everyone in different baskets by their country or origin, and the Poles just so happen to be white...

Fratton Fred

segaBOY wrote: »

First off they are known as economic immigrants, my brother works in London-he's an economic immigrant in their eyes.

Talking to a Pole last week he said quite a few FAMILIES have come here, also reckons about 20% of Poles will stay for good even if that is just speculation on his part. Point is it's racism not to make an effort to help integrate Poles or anyone who wants to stay and is legal/genuine is seeking residence.

Just because you're not black doesn't mean you don't want to integrate into Irish society, the examples of adverts etc. are not Government supported and won't help Irish attitudes like Africa Day or RTE's multicultural week for example.

I hope you see where I'm coming from instead of just putting everyone in different baskets by their country or origin, and the Poles just so happen to be white...

I agree. Being English I demand copious amounts of stella, free pairs of Union jack shorts and a good curry to throw up.

That should help meet my cultural requirements

sink

The Irish emigrated in vast numbers to both the UK and the US and they have integrated just fine without a government integration/multi-cultural policy. The reason being that we were very similar to start with and our now so alike that to an outsider it difficult to tell an Irishman from an Englishman and American. The Poles are also pretty similar to the Irish. I bet that within a generation you won't be able to tell an person of polish descent born and raised in Ireland from a person of full Irish descent. The same can not be said for Arab, Asian and African peoples which is why they need more support to help them integrate.

segaBOY

sink wrote: »

The Irish emigrated in vast numbers to both the UK and the US and they have integrated just fine without a government integration/multi-cultural policy. The reason being that we were very similar to start with and our now so alike that to an outsider it difficult to tell an Irishman from an Englishman and American. The Poles are also pretty similar to the Irish. I bet that within a generation you won't be able to tell an person of polish descent born and raised in Ireland from a person of full Irish descent. The same can not be said for Arab, Asian and African peoples which is why they need more support to help them integrate.

So this is all pretty much based on race...is it not in our human nature to prefer sticking to our own race hence this integration problem? Or am I just being racist...one thing I am sick of is some rediculous examples of "inclusion"

The Angelius for example, they changed it a few months back but before it used to include Africans, Asians and Irish/Europeans by the looks of it all with equal air time, considering most Catholics are either Irish or Polish it's a little bit sad in my view, may as well throw in a few Islamic clerics for good measure-it's all about integration...

segaBOY

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I agree. Being English I demand copious amounts of stella, free pairs of Union jack shorts and a good curry to throw up.

That should help meet my cultural requirements

Ah shir we let ye have the country for 800 odd years time to leave someone else at the whip, only joking

gurramok

segaBOY wrote: »

From what I've seen there was practically no effort put in on RTE's behalf. In some parts of the country (especially outside Dublin) there are whole housing estates with only Eastern Europeans living in them (mostly Polish)

I do agree that it is easier for them to integrate-I am very good friends with a few polish guys, can't say the same for other minorities they seem to stick more to themselves

But is it right to completely ignore them? I mean housing estates full of only those from eastern europe-will that do us any good for integration? The government should be ashamed using this selective type of what is essentially racism.

There's a reason why they and fellow immigrants are concentrated in those areas. Its because those areas are primarily new which is attractive to foreign tenants who do not know the country and their landlords are principally Irish.

Its a consequence of the housing boom where you see a disproportionate amount of people of foreign origin in new housing estates.(D15 is a classic example)

It ain't helping integration at all which is the problem. I do know a few Polish salt of the earth people, the thing is they have no long term stay intentions here and we have to distinguish them from African migrants who would have long term intentions to stay here.
Question is how we integrate the long termers who again live in the new estates?
Answers to Minister for Integration

segaBOY

gurramok wrote: »

There's a reason why they and fellow immigrants are concentrated in those areas. Its because those areas are primarily new which is attractive to foreign tenants who do not know the country and their landlords are principally Irish.

Its a consequence of the housing boom where you see a disproportionate amount of people of foreign origin in new housing estates.(D15 is a classic example)

It ain't helping integration at all which is the problem. I do know a few Polish salt of the earth people, the thing is they have no long term stay intentions here and we have to distinguish them from African migrants who would have long term intentions to stay here.
Question is how we integrate the long termers who again live in the new estates?
Answers to Minister for Integration

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y8N-DBePxc

All questions here

mikemac

segaBOY wrote: »

Point is it's racism not to make an effort to help integrate Poles or anyone who wants to stay and is legal/genuine is seeking residence.

I have to disagree with you there.
It is up to the immigrants to make the effort to integrate.

Are you saying if the government fails to have programs like maybe language classes then it's racism? Or an Irish person that fails to go out of their way to help also fails? Sure many people in estates have no idea who their neighbours are.

All the government needs to is provide a PPS number and access to essential services. Their responsibility ends there.

segaBOY

micmclo wrote: »

I have to disagree with you there.
It is up to the immigrants to make the effort to integrate.

Are you saying if the government fails to have programs like maybe language classes then it's racism? Or an Irish person that fails to go out of their way to help also fails? Sure many people in estates have no idea who their neighbours are.

All the government needs to is provide a PPS number and access to essential services. Their responsibility ends there.

I'm trying to make the point that the Government spends vast amounts of money "integrating" immigrants, they even have a Minister for Integration, however the money is only spent on integrating non-white immigrants-mainly those of African extraction because the Politically Correct among us see that as a good thing. However it is blatant racism against the white population by not spending any money on them!!

I don't really see the point in showing a few foreign faces during the angelus, funding Africa Day and having a big advertising campaign, putting immigrants in almost 50% of St. Pattrick Day parades, but that's the Government's plan, and it firmly excludes the white immigrants here.

So all you politically correct dogooders supporting these plans, welcome to racist Ireland, where if you are an immigrant and white you will be excluded under the government's integration policy.
Hence blatant racism that noone will say a word about because it only involves the white populous here.

murphaph

The poles etc. will integrate here without assistance. Plenty of poles migrated to Britain following WWII and are impossible to distinguish today, unless you hear their surnames perhaps. I worked with one guy who's grandad moved to england around that time and he has a polish surname but he's a real geezer.

I'm a bit racist I don't mind admitting. I have found in our short time with massive immigration (and it is massive in relation to our small population) that I can see too many cultural differences which get people's backs up. I simply don't believe that the indigenous population should have to bend over backwards to accomodate immigrants and I genuinely don't believe that irish emmigrants expect or expected that from their british or american hosts.

If I emmigrate to (for example) Saudi Arabia I will obey their laws and customs. I will not seek to impose my customs and certainly not my laws on them. I simply expect the same in return. Irish people are far from perfect, but we have established our customs over many centuries and they are what they are. I have no problem with foreigners (be they black, blue white or pink) coming here so long as they adapt to our ways and not the other way around.

Zombrex

segaBOY wrote: »

I'm trying to make the point that the Government spends vast amounts of money "integrating" immigrants, they even have a Minister for Integration, however the money is only spent on integrating non-white immigrants-mainly those of African extraction because the Politically Correct among us see that as a good thing. However it is blatant racism against the white population by not spending any money on them!!

What are you actually basing that on?

Which programs are you referring to?

Zombrex

segaBOY wrote: »

I remember RTÉ's "Multicurtural Week" (flawed in the name alone, should be integration, multiculturalism has failed, Lenihen has admitted this and has opted for this policy instead) Just wondering why RTÉ felt it was ok to pretty much exclude all newcomers from Eastern Europe in general?

Did they though? Or did you just not watch those programs.

If you go the "Diversity Week" web page at http://www.rte.ie/diversity/ it lists a number of TV programs, radio programs and event guides covering Eastern European culture. For example their diversity stories series picked a Chinese, a Polish and an Indian person to follow. They aired a documentary "Welcome to Europe" about Poland entering the EU.

It also includes programs about other "white" immigrants, from Italy to South Africa.

This seems a lot of hot air over nothing simply because you missed some of the RTE programs :rolleyes:

positron

segaBOY wrote: »

...putting immigrants in almost 50% of St. Pattrick Day parades, but that's the Government's plan, and it firmly excludes the white immigrants here.

Hmm... I don't know.... I thought there were loads of European nations represented at the St Patricks day parade in Dublin this year?!! I remember there was a large Latvian contingent at the Drogheda parade in 2007.

Could it be that you are noticing non-white participants more as they look different, or may be you are assuming all white participants are Irish or something?

Victor

Fratton Fred wrote: »

stella,

Belgian.

free pairs of Union jack shorts and

Made in China.

a good curry to throw up.

Indian.

Fratton Fred

Victor wrote: »

Belgian.
Made in China.
Indian.

A pint of mild, a good toad in the hole and a spot of Morris dancing instead then

Zambia

I think the effort on integration is on the part of the newcomers.

I mean if you travel to a different country you have to be prepared to live differently. No foul or malice is intended.

Fact is the long term migrants integrate once they need other services from the state. Their kids need schools ,they need maternity hospitals, they need tax assistance etc all require help from the wider community.

16 blokes living in a 4 bedroom house in Coolock saving all their cash to support their families in Poland have little use for integration.

sovtek

Whatever Conor does to facilitate integration into Ireland will be contravened by the Minister for Justice and their hypocritical and highly questionable policies. Examples abound...trying to keep non-eu spouses of EU spouses from getting residency unless they've lived in another EU state first (against EU law), making non-eu nationals wait 20 months or longer (after living here for 5 years) for LTR applications (and then throwing a dubious police cert requirement at the end to extend it even longer...retroactively), making applicants wait 3 years or more for citizenship, charging an immigrant tax in the form of the GNIB card every year for non-eu nationals that are here legally, working and paying taxes (on top of the extortionate work permit application fees that turn a huge profit for the Dept of Enterprise, Trade and Employment) and denying citizenship applications for non-eu's that have availed of jobseekers allowance legally.

sovtek

Zambia232 wrote: »

Fact is the long term migrants integrate once they need other services from the state. Their kids need schools ,they need maternity hospitals, they need tax assistance etc all require help from the wider community.

16 blokes living in a 4 bedroom house in Coolock saving all their cash to support their families in Poland have little use for integration.

Fact is most migrants work and pay taxes and give far more to the State than they take.
That's besides improving the gene pool and the food/beer.

rocky25

sovtek wrote: »

That's besides improving the gene pool and the food/beer.

That's totally the wrong attitude.

Your comments as I see it are racist,

Improve the Gene Pool...nothing wrong with us Irish.
Do you think you are superior to us?

Improve the Food/Beer...nothing wrong with our Food or Beer.

If you don't like it...GO HOME

RealEstateKing

That's totally the wrong attitude.

Your comments as I see it are racist,

Improve the Gene Pool...nothing wrong with us Irish.
Do you think you are superior to us?

Improve the Food/Beer...nothing wrong with our Food or Beer.

(1) We dont have any cuisine at all, merely fried slop with white bread to soak it up with. We have easily the worst cuisine of any country in the developed world, without exception. Only England holds a candle to us. I am in the centre of Dublin, right now. What are my options for food for under a tenner? A ****ing white "cuisine de france" roll with cold chicken tikka on it. This is in what likes to consider itself a major European capital.

As for beer, yeah Guiness and Smithwicks are alright: Everything else is the same mass-produced stuff you get in every other country in the world. In Germany Ive been in small towns where you can get 10 different types of local beer, all delicious, from the same county.

(2) Foreign people are better looking, lets face it: Not all of them, but it is ****in' rare for an Irish person to even approach the levels of beauty that are commonplace in a place like say, Spain. We all know this, lets not pretend it isnt true. We make up for it in other ways, but we are a bunch of friendly, witty, interesting to talk to mingers.

sovtek

RealEstateKing wrote: »

(1) We dont have any cuisine at all, merely fried slop with white bread to soak it up with. We have easily the worst cuisine of any country in the developed world, without exception. Only England holds a candle to us. I am in the centre of Dublin, right now. What are my options for food for under a tenner? A ****ing white "cuisine de france" roll with cold chicken tikka on it. This is in what likes to consider itself a major European capital.

As for beer, yeah Guiness and Smithwicks are alright: Everything else is the same mass-produced stuff you get in every other country in the world. In Germany Ive been in small towns where you can get 10 different types of local beer, all delicious, from the same county.

(2) Foreign people are better looking, lets face it: Not all of them, but it is ****in' rare for an Irish person to even approach the levels of beauty that are commonplace in a place like say, Spain. We all know this, lets not pretend it isnt true. We make up for it in other ways, but we are a bunch of friendly, witty, interesting to talk to mingers.

Could not have said it better myself.

No rocky I do not have to sit back and just like it because certain people (too many of them run this place) cannot face certain facts about Ireland. You need us foreignors that are kind enough to point them out and try to help change things to make life here better.
I have given you and your government loads in graft and tax revenue. I have lived here for years and it is my home. No matter what some people here might like the fact is that hundred of thousands of us immigrants are NOT GOING ANYWHERE!!!!

djpbarry

rocky25 wrote: »

Improve the Gene Pool...nothing wrong with us Irish.

You cannot tell me that the population in Ireland has not become FAR more attractive as a result of immigration. Scarcely a drinking session goes by without an Irish guy mentioning the "gorgeous Eastern European woman" he recently met. I myself would not have met my beautiful wife were it not for immigration!

rocky25 wrote: »

Improve the Food/Beer...nothing wrong with our Food or Beer...

...if you're happy to live on Abrekebabra and Guinness.

rocky25

http://www.dailymotion.com/comments/related/9581082/video/x500y1_bbc-inside-sport-poland-football-ra_sport/5

djpbarry

rocky25 wrote: »

http://www.dailymotion.com/comments/related/9581082/video/x500y1_bbc-inside-sport-poland-football-ra_sport/5

Sorry, what's your point?

djpbarry

djpbarry wrote: »

You cannot tell me that the population in Ireland has not become FAR more attractive as a result of immigration. Scarcely a drinking session goes by without an Irish guy mentioning the "gorgeous Eastern European woman" he recently met. I myself would not have met my beautiful wife were it not for immigration!
...if you're happy to live on Abrekebabra and Guinness.

The most sensible post, I've seen on boards...we should only take in imimgrants on the basis of their looks.

I suggest we expel as a matter of urgency....

-all black women with the arse the size of a small midlands town
-all Chinese people - on the basis that their bad eyesight could be passed on
-all Polish skinheads...no doubt it's hiding some genetic form of hair loss.

In fact, lets expel everybody apart from tall blonde Eastern European women.........

rocky25

djpbarry wrote: »

Sorry, what's your point?

Guinness according to you