Irish right wing party?

judas101

I'm a first time poster on this forum but am a long time lurker.

I was just wondering about people opinions on the possible emergence of a proper right wing party in ireland (i wouldnt rate the PD's)

a lot of people have major problems with the immigration system in ireland and the detrimental affects its having.

there are, undeniably, problems associated with immigration here and many feel the ireland is going the same way as france and england where there is much hostility and segregation. i myself have had negative experiences with illegal immigrants which are making me increasingly lean right.

my question is this, do you think a right wing party will emerge in ireland eventually and would you support them?

judas101

judas101 wrote: »

i myself have had negative experiences with illegal immigrants which are making me increasingly lean right.

You sure its not just one leg shorter than the other?

judas101 wrote: »

do you think a right wing party will emerge in ireland

Probably some mickey mouse thing.

judas101 wrote: »

would you support them?

Not me anyway.

bobbyjoe

What do you mean by right wing?
Not being smart there are lots of opinions about what it means.

judas101

well it means a party that upholds liberties of a civil society and the preservention of the domestic culture, usually in the face of external forces for change.

pinched that off wiki but it summed it up well i though:pac:

sink

Sounds more like conservatism than just plain old right wing. Right wing can mean low taxes small government and more libertarian policies. I could see a conservative movement gain momentum over the next few decades as people forget the bad old days and replace it with a feeling of nostalgia, but I don't see it being of a significant size maybe as large as the greens.

menoscemo

Do you mean a right-wing party a la the conservatives in UK? If so I guess we already have two or three of these.
Or do you mean a more extreme right-wing party like BNP or like the french FN (national front)?

Or are you really asking if FF/FG will take on anti-immigration policies? That is most likely because IMO they are both very populist.

Caoimhín

Ireland is indeed somewhat lob-sided towards the left. Personally i think both the left and the right opinion on any political discussion has some merit. The danger here is you need to be a bit clearer in your definition of a right wing party or you will raise the hackles of both extreme polarities.

menoscemo

caoibhin wrote: »

Ireland is indeed somewhat lob-sided towards the left. Personally i think both the left and the right opinion on any political discussion has some merit. The danger here is you need to be a bit clearer in your definition of a right wing party or you will raise the hackles of both extreme polarities.

Disagree. I believe Ireland is and has been governed by centre/right parties since it's inception.

redarmyblues

I think the real question is will a left wing party ever emerge in Ireland.

But Judas if you want to indulge your goosestepping tendencies, you should start up your own national movement....

Keep Ireland safe for Starbucks, McDonalds and MTV. No foreign muck here please, but you may have to flip your own Burgers since all the foreigners will be gone home.

sink

FF/FG are centre right. Labour is the only centre left with decent support. SF/SP would be far left. PD would be right of FF/FG but would not be far right.

Moriarty

The Immigration Control Platform has been in existence for a couple of years. That you apparently haven't heard of it (and I wouldn't blame you, they've never been elected for anything they've run for afaik) speaks volumes for the appetite for such a political party in Ireland at the moment.

Right wing can mean pro-immigration too, don't forget.

menoscemo

sink wrote: »

FF/FG are centre right. Labour is the only centre left with decent support. SF/SP would be far left. PD would be right of FF/FG but would not be far right.

Agreed except the greens are like labour pretty centre left and SF are definately moving more central, especially economically and becoming left-centre left.

We are a really conservative country and cannot see a popular far-right party emerging that is not just a bunch of loony racists.

judas101

Apologies for the vague description but yes i meant a party such as the french national front.

as mentionied above, ireland has always been ran from left of center and in my opinion is crying out for a right wing party such as the national front.

what's with the mud slinging 'red army'? judging from your username i can see that maybe youre not a fan of right wing politics but that was an ignorant comment to make.
Just so you know, there's a world of difference between a 'forgiener' and an illegal immigrant.

is_that_so

We are a conservative folk at heart and like things to stay the same, hence the basic centrist leanings of all of our major parties. In a lot of ways they reflect our own sense of where we think we should be- somewhere in the middle. Apart from the odd lurch to the left as long as it doesn't hurt us that much in things anti-war,green issues,local hospital services and more commonly to the right - ala Joe Duffy, Herald,Sindo, anti-immigration, anti-scumbag etc , collectively we prefer to hover around the middle.

So a real right wing or even left wing party is going to be stuck with a very small base and is probably reduced to skulking on the fringes.

sink

I am very anti BNP/National Front style far-right parties. They don't add any benefit to society and they just stir up trouble and cause tension between communities. There is no need for it, we're all living just doing the best we can who cares were you were born or what your race/religion is. It should not be a factor in social status or rights. I'm for sensible immigration control not too far from what we have now.

redarmyblues

Judas, how were you able to indentify the exact status of the illegal immigrants who provided you with your negative experiences, was it by the colour of their skin? ,and if not how exactly.

gordon_gekko

this country is crying out for a party that is willing to implement some badly needed thatcherite policys to deal with the stone around our neck that is the public service , fianna fail are too populist to make enemys in the unions , fine gael are hobbled by having to stay friends with labour in any potential future goverment to tackle public service inneficency and as for the rest , well the less said the better

this will not happen of course as elections in this country are utterly predictable , the vast vast majority of people vote for whoever there parents , grandparents and great grand parents voted for
that and the fact that for the most part , we are not at all an idealogical people , were fence sitters who dont like to be radical , be it either to the left or right and we perfer grumble about things than really make hard descisions , its no wonder bertie aherne was so popular here , he didnt like to make hard descisions and just wanted to be seen as a nice fella

menoscemo

judas101 wrote: »

as mentionied above, ireland has always been ran from left of center and in my opinion is crying out for a right wing party such as the national front.

your statement and indeed thinking are fundamentally wrong because FF and FG are centre right parties (willing to shift left in certain coalitions maybe, but never past centre)

Edit, and would you support this party?

judas101

ermm.... i hate to burst your bubble but fianna fail is a centre left party.

menoscemo

judas101 wrote: »

ermm.... i hate to burst your bubble but fianna fail is a centre left party.

Hmmmm, you are wrong. Started as a left-wing party in the 1920's and quickly beacame a centre/centre-right party.
It's ideologiy in terms comaprisons to other european countries can be seen in it's Alliance in the European parliament is with a group called the 'union for the Europe of nations' a conservative nationalist grouping
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_for_Europe_of_the_Nations

It's economic policies of low taxation/ market economy/ poor investment in public sevices are a clear identifier of it as a classic European conservative party.

sink

judas101 wrote: »

ermm.... i hate to burst your bubble but fianna fail is a centre left party.

No they broadly follow the liberal conservatism ideology with more populist stances when required. But if they didn't have to appeal to a broad electorate I'm pretty sure they would ditch the populism.

humberklog

menoscemo wrote: »

Hmmmm, you are wrong. Started as a left-wing party in the 1920's and quickly beacame a centre/centre-right party.
It's ideologiy in terms comaprisons to other european countries can be seen in it's Alliance in the European parliament is with a group called the 'union for the Europe of nations' a conservative nationalist grouping
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_for_Europe_of_the_Nations

It's economic policies of low taxation/ market economy/ poor investment in public sevices are a clear identifier of it as a classic European conservative party.

What about Bertie saying he was one of only two socialists in the Dail? Please don't burst my bubble!

Seriously though there is a big problem with parties that go FAR either way, left or right. People simply don't vote for it and haven't in a lot of years. It such a party developed in any serious form (v.unlikely) it'd probably be more of a street threatening loony fringe than a vote getting machine. Simply put...such rantings are very unsexy in these days Metropolitico. (I'll have that one!)

sink

Bertie a socialist, hah! He certainly bows to union pressure too often but he privatised many industries during his tenure. He's just playing to people who call themselves socialist but don't really follow traditional socialism.

menoscemo

I am a socialist too! Now privatise those hospitals and allow me to pay for them please.

segaBOY

Moriarty wrote: »

The Immigration Control Platform has been in existence for a couple of years. That you apparently haven't heard of it (and I wouldn't blame you, they've never been elected for anything they've run for afaik) speaks volumes for the appetite for such a political party in Ireland at the moment.

Right wing can mean pro-immigration too, don't forget.

They are getting more popular, Ted Neville doubled his vote to 804 first pref in the last election afaik

Still though, a party with nothing else on it's mind but immigration control seems a bit dangerous in my view

mikemac

I'm confused. If right-wing is big business, then they generally love immigration.
People willing to work for low wages and often afraid to speak up.
Look at America, it'll be the Republicans who do more for illegal immigrants than the Democrats.

I attended a Labour Ard Fheis and heard Prionas De Rossa claim at most a few thousand Eastern Europeans would arrive here.

If an experienced politican in Ireland and Europe hasn't a clue then I don't know who to put my trust in

LostinBlanch

FF, FG are catch all parties, in other words they're both centrist parties that will adjust policies to meet what they think the electorate wants. So they will swing left and right within certain parameters but will still remain centrist. So this is how Bertie could claim to be socialist while encouraging Harney to privatise the health service.

As both sink and moriarty have pointed out, there isn't the demand for an NF/ BNP style parties here. Eoin O'Duffy's blueshirts in the 30's were the closest we came but they faded away (thankfully). I don't agree with the Immigration Control Platform but accept that they may have a point (even, or especially, if I don't agree with them). We don't have to make the same mistakes that other countries made, but having gone through such huge social change in the last 20 years it's understandable how some people are uncomfortable with this change.

KERPAL

OP, we must have some sort of connection, i was just about to start thread about this very topic.

Personally, i think its a shame that FF have become an on the fence party, doing all in power to please the population. The PDs have become a farce, and tbh its a real pity MacDowell messed up in the general election, because he was the only shining light on the right(nice ring to that:D).

I will put my beliefs aside, but in any case, a proper right wing party, not too extreme mind you, is a must in order to obtain a healthy political equilibrium in this country.

We are becoming far too used to hearing the views from leftist parties, its not healthy.

There seems to be equal numbers of people complaining about the major parties being too left wing or right wing. I guess that means they're in the centre.

gordon_gekko

judas101 wrote: »

ermm.... i hate to burst your bubble but fianna fail is a centre left party.

both fianna fail politicians and even a good few number of fianna fail voters like to think of themselves as being left of centre but there nothing of the sort in reality

besides , fianna fail are a populist party , there only idealogy is power , there lack of idealogy is what has made them the most popular part over the yrs , as i said earlier , we are a deeply unidealogical people , the one really idealogical politican we had in this country in the last number of yrs ( michael mc dowell) was despised by most people , simply because he wasnt enough of a people pleaser
i dont count joe higgins because no one takes him seriously

redarmyblues

judas101 wrote: »

Apologies for the vague description but yes i meant a party such as the french national front.

as mentionied above, ireland has always been ran from left of center and in my opinion is crying out for a right wing party such as the national front.

what's with the mud slinging 'red army'? judging from your username i can see that maybe youre not a fan of right wing politics but that was an ignorant comment to make.
.[/quote

Judas you are pretty sensitve for a Nazi sympathiser, it was that kind of sniveiling spirit cost ye the reich, and Nazi sympathiser you are since you advocate the establishment of a racist holocaust denying party like the French National front here.