Irish right wing party?

KERPAL

redarmyblues wrote: »

Judas you are pretty sensitve for a Nazi sympathiser, it was that kind of sniveiling spirit cost ye the reich, and Nazi sympathiser you are since you advocate the establishment of a racist holocaust denying party like the French National front here.

Its you kind of lunatics that berate people for sympathising with Nazis, but at the same time sympathise with Stalins reign of terror, Mao Tse tsungs forced industrial growth, North Koreas current dictatorship as well as Burmas current rulers. The disaster that has been socialism/communism has resulted in hundreds of millions more deaths than any far right rule has ever caused.

sink

To be fair if Hiltler won I'm sure the death toll would be a lot higher. But as far as I am concerned all extreme parties can go **** off, the decent people of Ireland don't want you and your bull****.

KERPAL

sink wrote: »

To be fair if Hiltler won I'm sure the death toll would be a lot higher. But as far as I am concerned all extreme parties can go **** off, the decent people of Ireland don't want you and your bull****.

The very fact that you feel the need to resort to cursing suggest to me that your the kind of person that when the crap hits the fan, you would be the first to go crawling in search of an extreme party.

Look im not defending Hitler here, and im not in particular favor of an extremist party, i was just responding to the chap who generalised right wingers as nazi sympathisers so i generalised him as stalin et al sympathiser.
A neo-con style party is what need imho.

And btw mate, Hitler would not have come near to killing the amount of people the communist rulers did had he not been defeated, just would not have happened.

judas101

sink wrote: »

But as far as I am concerned all extreme parties can go **** off, the decent people of Ireland don't want you and your bull****.

I'd probably agree with you.

Too far either side is no good but a better balance is the ideal.
Anyone who whole heartedly supports the philosophy of either side and rejects the other is crazy imo. I wasnt advocating the formation of a extremist party just gauging the opinions of whether ireland will ever have one.

So red army, you can stop with the highly insulting remarks. there's been a lot of insightful contributions made to this thread so far and yours are not one of them. if you could stop making preconceptions about me that'd be great.

sink

Well it's well documented that the National Front are holocaust deniers and nazi symphatisers and he mentioned them. BNP are not in the same category but they're still racist assholes. Wether Hitler would've killed as many as Stalin if he had won, is pure speculation and no-one can say categorically one way or the other. I can assure you as a Agnostic secular humanist who strongly believes parliamentary democracy and social capitalism, I would never support a far left or right movement unless I had a mental breakdown.

KERPAL

sink wrote: »

Well it's well documented that the National Front are holocaust deniers and nazi symphatisers and he mentioned them. BNP are not in the same category but they're still racist assholes.
Wether Hitler would've killed as many as Stalin if he had won, is pure speculation and no-one can say categorically one way or the other. I can assure you as a Agnostic secular humanist who strongly believes parliamentary democracy and social capitalism, I would never support a far left or right movement unless I had a mental breakdown.

First up, The National Fronts leader Le Pen has been accuse of holocaust denial, but this is a very convenient ploy for her political opponents.
Yes BNP are racist idiots imo, no grasp on politics or how to win the minds of people.

Secondly, in fairness you speculated first concerning Hitler would have killed more bla bla bla.

Thirdly, I cannot say I concur with you political viewpoint, its good to see an educated answer without the cursing.:)

nij

Far right parties are NEVER what a country needs. The only reason they come to power is that economic slowdown or even depression leads to anger, and anger breeds hatred, and that hatred is almost always directed toward "the foreigners". It's human nature to blame other "tribes" for problems, we are hard-wired to do so, and the lying, hate-spreading, fear-mongering leaders of right wing parties know that.

KERPAL

nij wrote: »

Far right parties are NEVER what a country needs. The only reason they come to power is that economic slowdown or even depression leads to anger, and anger breeds hatred, and that hatred is almost always directed toward "the foreigners". It's human nature to blame other "tribes" for problems, we are hard-wired to do so, and the lying, hate-spreading, fear-mongering leaders of right wing parties know that.

Alrite nij, i agree with you that when the crap hits the fan, people tend to go for the extreme parties, but you cannot say that they crawl to the right side solely.
Sinn Fein were at the height of their powers when the crap was hitting the fan, look at them now, they are a political farce, with aboslutely nothing to play on, now that we are prospering.
When people were desperate in Russia, They turned to Lenin the leftist, in China in 1949 they turned to Mao and so on.

Hitler and Stalin despised eachother so much because both knew that they were feeding off the same type of desperate civilian, and if Fascism became a success, then Stalins civilians would turn to facism and visa versa.

You cannot say that it is only Far right parties feeding off the desperate people, because in history, the Far left have done exactly the same, and probably have exploited these people to a bigger extent( USSR and all that only breaking up 2 decades ago).

is_that_so

nij wrote: »

Far right parties are NEVER what a country needs. The only reason they come to power is that economic slowdown or even depression leads to anger, and anger breeds hatred, and that hatred is almost always directed toward "the foreigners". It's human nature to blame other "tribes" for problems, we are hard-wired to do so, and the lying, hate-spreading, fear-mongering leaders of right wing parties know that.

The trouble with extreme parties in this country is that they are really no different to the likes of Finian McGrath, that Monaghan chap for hospitals or any other single issue candidate. Once their issues have been supplanted by another single issue they tend to disappear. If it's an issue we don't much care about in the first place then they are ignored.

That said less than 1000 votes can make you a councillor.

redarmyblues

KERPAL wrote: »

First up, The National Fronts leader Le Pen has been accuse of holocaust denial, but this is a very convenient ploy for her political opponents.
Yes BNP are racist idiots imo, no grasp on politics or how to win the minds of people.

Secondly, in fairness you speculated first concerning Hitler would have killed more bla bla bla.

Thirdly, I cannot say I concur with you political viewpoint, its good to see an educated answer without the cursing.:)

Firstly Kerpal Jean Marie Le Pen is an actual man. Jean is French for John he is not a Jean as in blue jeans.

He has not been merely accused of holocaust denial by his political opponenents he has been convicted of it by the courts.

Your friend Judas has not denied being a Nazi sympathizer. I think the two of you are in this together. I guess that you have the jackboots polished and uniforms designed; you are only waiting for recruits to the half baked goose stepping-neo con-racist-bigoted national movement you plan. Then you will fall out of a pub in Temple Bar and head straight for the Dail (hire a taxi you will all fit in) over the railings and Judas will assume his rightful place as fuehrer, only to be ousted, Judas will then in his cell in Mountjoy write a seminal work that will call the Gael to the swastika.

If this is not true please give us a coherent yet concise account of your political philosophy leaving out convenient but vague labels, and including, monetary policy, Economic policy the rights of the individual, Crime, Race, Foreign policy etc and brief assessment of the problems facing Ireland and how to deal them.

duggie-89

KERPAL wrote: »

Personally, i think its a shame that FF have become an on the fence party, doing all in power to please the population. The PDs have become a farce, and tbh its a real pity MacDowell messed up in the general election, because he was the only shining light on the right(nice ring to that:D).

I will put my beliefs aside, but in any case, a proper right wing party, not too extreme mind you, is a must in order to obtain a healthy political equilibrium in this country.

We are becoming far too used to hearing the views from leftist parties, its not healthy.

i disagree, we may be hearing left wing views but the actions we are seeing are more right in practice.

in one respect i would not mind seeing an openly right wing party on the stage instead of the wolf's in sheep skins of the likes of FF and FG, the PD's are a spent force and the best election result was McDowell going!

i have no time for that man.

i think one of the key questions that may need to be asked is will the end of populaism come soon and if so what will take its place?? and maybe what will have to occur for this to happen? i serious credit crunch?? an economic depression??

duggie-89

KERPAL wrote: »

Alrite nij, i agree with you that when the crap hits the fan, people tend to go for the extreme parties, but you cannot say that they crawl to the right side solely.
Sinn Fein were at the height of their powers when the crap was hitting the fan, look at them now, they are a political farce, with aboslutely nothing to play on, now that we are prospering.
When people were desperate in Russia, They turned to Lenin the leftist, in China in 1949 they turned to Mao and so on.

Hitler and Stalin despised eachother so much because both knew that they were feeding off the same type of desperate civilian, and if Fascism became a success, then Stalins civilians would turn to facism and visa versa.

You cannot say that it is only Far right parties feeding off the desperate people, because in history, the Far left have done exactly the same, and probably have exploited these people to a bigger extent( USSR and all that only breaking up 2 decades ago).

i think you would find that the **** hitting the fan which u talked about was started by right wing groups within both countries, the tsar in russia and his absolutism and the corrupt centre right KPT (i think thats what there name was) in china.

and i dont see how being in power in the north is a farce and the obvious threat that FF see SF as being, hence why they organised in the north.

kove

Isn't one of the few positive things that can be said about mainstream politics in Ireland that there is not such an obsession with trying to simplify everything into "right" and "left" as there is in some other countries? I think that's a credit to the Irish electorate.

Personally I tend to agree with the view that conservative ideals have been over-represented since the foundation of the state though.

Belfast

judas101 wrote: »

I'm a first time poster on this forum but am a long time lurker.

I was just wondering about people opinions on the possible emergence of a proper right wing party in ireland (i wouldnt rate the PD's)

a lot of people have major problems with the immigration system in ireland and the detrimental affects its having.

there are, undeniably, problems associated with immigration here and many feel the ireland is going the same way as france and england where there is much hostility and segregation. i myself have had negative experiences with illegal immigrants which are making me increasingly lean right.

my question is this, do you think a right wing party will emerge in ireland eventually and would you support them?

I agree with you about the PDs.

Sounds more like a party biased on Xenophobia rather than right wing.

If immigration in to Ireland is a problem does that mean that Irish emigration to other countries is also a problem.

if so are you in favour of all the Irish in the diaspora world wide being forced to return to Ireland and banning Irish for leaving to live in other countries.

Anti-immigrant policies are not only found in right wing parties. They can also be found in left wing parties.

What other policies does this party have to make it right wing.
What type of economic policies ?
What are your party policy on global warming ?
What is your policy on world free trade etc




What problems you had with immigrants here ?

good book on the subject
Immigrants: Your Country Needs Them (Paperback)
by Philippe Legrain (Author)

Overdraft

judas101 wrote: »

i myself have had negative experiences with illegal immigrants which are making me increasingly lean right.

Deleted User wrote: »

You sure its not just one leg shorter than the other?

Pure gold Conor, pure gold!

manic56

Do you think Ireland could benefit from a right wing no nonsense political party to stamp out the politically correct liberal trends that are helping ruin society?

Karoma

You're inviting a discussion on this? You liberal! To the camps with you!

Agent Smith

in other news.
Grass in believed to be green.

manic56

Karoma wrote: »

You're inviting a discussion on this? You liberal! To the camps with you!

Typical knee jerk liberal reaction.



Just because I my views lean to the right doesn’t mean I condone the atrocities committed in world war 2.


If you have nothing constructive to add to this thread then please ignore it.

marco_polo

What exactly would you like stamped out?

manic56

marco_polo wrote: »

What exactly would you like stamped out?

There is an almost endless list of things that should be changed.

First of all there would have to be a huge change in the way unemployment benefit is distributed. People who sign on the dole should have to complete at least 20 hours of community service a week. This would help instill a greater sense of pride amongst working class communities resulting in a reduction in crime, which in turn would result in a decrease in spending on petty crime ect.. In short everyone would win

Next would be immigration. A system similar to Australia’s points system would be introduced. So basically no one would be allowed into Ireland from outside the EU without something to contribute to society. Anyone who is illegal would be immediately deported as would any legal immigrants who are found guilty of any crime.

More prisons would be built to stoop the current revolving door policy.

Harsher sentence would be imposed on drug dealing, murderers, rapists, and paedophiles.

is_that_so

manic56 wrote: »

There is an almost endless list of things that should be changed.

First of all there would have to be a huge change in the way unemployment benefit is distributed. People who sign on the dole should have to complete at least 20 hours of community service a week. This would help instill a greater sense of pride amongst working class communities resulting in a reduction in crime, which in turn would result in a decrease in spending on petty crime ect.. In short everyone would win

You have obviously never been unemployed in your life.

Next would be immigration. A system similar to Australia’s points system would be introduced. So basically no one would be allowed into Ireland from outside the EU without something to contribute to society. Anyone who is illegal would be immediately deported as would any legal immigrants who are found guilty of any crime.

You think we might get a good deal in adding a few of our own to the deportees.

More prisons would be built to stoop the current revolving door policy.

Harsher sentence would be imposed on drug dealing, murderers, rapists, and paedophiles.

Flogging? Impaling?

manic56

is_that_so wrote: »

You have obviously never been unemployed in your life.

No I haven't. What has this got to do with anything? It's is this sort of bleeding heart attitude that is letting people get away with blue murder. Do you have to consult corporate fraudsters before you change the rules that affect them? No! These people are lay abouts and should at least be forced to do 4 or 5 hours of community service a day for the state that is being good enough to pay their way in life.

is_that_so wrote: »

You think we might get a good deal in adding a few of our own to the deportees.

Ha ha very good.No we'll have to make to do with a fair trial and a harsh jail sentence for our own scumbags.

is_that_so wrote: »

Flogging? Impaling?

No.What did you hope to achieve by asking this inane question?

ninty9er

manic56 wrote: »

There is an almost endless list of things that should be changed.

First of all there would have to be a huge change in the way unemployment benefit is distributed. People who sign on the dole should have to complete at least 20 hours of community service a week. This would help instill a greater sense of pride amongst working class communities resulting in a reduction in crime, which in turn would result in a decrease in spending on petty crime ect.. In short everyone would win

Next would be immigration. A system similar to Australia’s points system would be introduced. So basically no one would be allowed into Ireland from outside the EU without something to contribute to society. Anyone who is illegal would be immediately deported as would any legal immigrants who are found guilty of any crime.

More prisons would be built to stoop the current revolving door policy.

Harsher sentence would be imposed on drug dealing, murderers, rapists, and paedophiles.

All of those are compatible with left wing government. I'd have no issue with making the long term unemployed work community service (e.g cutting the grass on the local greens etc...), but putting people who have paid PRSI for 5 years and then become unemployed have a right to be unemployed for a certain amount of time until a job comes up for them.

There is always work for builders and their own snobbish attitudes such as "I'm a bricky...you can't possible expect me to build roads" need a kick up the arse in the current climate. Accountants are clerical and if there were no accounting jobs they would have to find a job managing a shop or some such...the same should apply to all construction workers.

Fratton Fred

What this country needs is a government with a complete mandate, not a government of compromise. Then it needs a leader with a pair of balls.

Left wing or right ing, it doesn't matter. The current one changes depending on who they are talking to.

manic56

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What this country needs is a government with a complete mandate, not a government of compromise. Then it needs a leader with a pair of balls.

Left wing or right ing, it doesn't matter. The current one changes depending on who they are talking to.

That's what I ment by no nonsense.FF/FG will jump into bed with anyone and compromise their policies just to keep their grasp on power.They are just a pack of yes men,it's disgusting.What this country needs is a hard line right wing goverment to sort the men from the boys.

ninty9er

I think what Fred was getting at was exactly what I believe; coalition governments aren't effective, but the Irish people can't get that.

guinnessdrinker

ninty9er wrote: »

I think what Fred was getting at was exactly what I believe; coalition governments aren't effective, but the Irish people can't get that.

Maybe it's not that the Irish people can't get it but rather they see no credible single party that they feel are strong enough to form a government on their own.

mike65

We could do with a smack of ideological rectitude at times. Clear out of the dead wood in our governing classes.

Libertas ftw! I'd be tempted I tell ya.

Mike.

ninty9er

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

Maybe it's not that the Irish people can't get it but rather they see no credible single party that they feel are strong enough to form a government on their own.

FF/FG and Labour are all capable of running the country on their own. The capabilities vary and the resouce pools differ, but I wouldn't be crying into my soup as a FF member if Labour or FG ever gained an overall majority. FF has the history and under the current leadership would find it a lot easier to reform than dealing with the whims of 6 greens, 5 independents and 2 FF leaning PD members.