Irish right wing party?

guinnessdrinker

ninty9er wrote: »

FF has the history and under the current leadership would find it a lot easier to reform than dealing with the whims of 6 greens, 5 independents and 2 FF leaning PD members.

Well if FF are not finding it easier to reform it has nobody to blame but themselfs, it was their decision to go into gov. with the Greens and PD's and make deals with the independents, nobody forced FF into government or said it would be easy.

ninty9er

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

Well if FF are not finding it easier to reform it has nobody to blame but themselfs, it was their decision to go into gov. with the Greens and PD's and make deals with the independents, nobody forced FF into government or said it would be easy.

Someone had to save the country from the other alternative - Everyone except FF.

But seriously. If the Irish had a little intelligence, they would see that even if they didn't like it, at least things would get done, rather than being tediously negotiated at every hook in the road.

Fratton Fred

wht reforms? why shoud FF push through any reforms? why change the status quo?

The PR system we have in place, whilst fair, tries to please everyone and if you do that, you don't get anything done.

guinnessdrinker

Fratton Fred wrote: »

wht reforms? why shoud FF push through any reforms? why change the status quo?

The PR system we have in place, whilst fair, tries to please everyone and if you do that, you don't get anything done.

Guess which party has tried to remove the PR system in the past?

I actually think the PR system is good though. I don't think it's a system that tries to please everyone either. It's still possible for voters to elect a majority government if they see fit through the PR system. Imo we just don't have any party that can currently persuade the population to vote for them in sufficient numbers to achieve a majority government.

brianthebard

ninty9er wrote: »

Someone had to save the country from the other alternative - Everyone except FF.

But seriously. If the Irish had a little intelligence, they would see that even if they didn't like it, at least things would get done, rather than being tediously negotiated at every hook in the road.

oh wow,insulting the irish electorate.i thought maybe ff and its supporters would know better after the referendum.

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ninty9er

Fratton Fred wrote: »

wht reforms? why shoud FF push through any reforms? why change the status quo?

Why keep the status quo?

The civil service and health service are the 2 in most need of reform, though aviation policy could do with a kick up the arse too. Re-nationalisation of Aer Lingus and nationalisation of telecommunications infrastructure. We're not a big enough country to justify duplication of resources by competing companies. The service provision should be open to competition but the ESB unions for example should be told where to go. ESB Supply should be sold off. Networks should be the only ESB compnay remaining under state control.

@ Brian

The no vote qualifies the comment rather than detracting from the people. The ones that didn't even bother to vote are the real problem though.

irish_bob

its very difficult to foresee any goverment tackle the civil service , fianna fail believe in giving the impression that they please everyone so they are unlikely to step on any union toes

as for the alternative of fine gael well thats even more difficult as they rely on labour to form a goverment and the unions and civil service baschially own labour

theese are reasons why i could never understand why the pd,s didnt become a bigger party , they were a libertarian party and many irish people ( certainly more than ever voted pd) have libertarian pro free market tendancies
i believe the reason they died ( pd,s ) was because the vast majority of irish people vote for whoever there ancestors voted for and there was no pd,s back in 1937
people here dont vote about issues

Fratton Fred

ninty9er wrote: »

Why keep the status quo?

The civil service and health service are the 2 in most need of reform, though aviation policy could do with a kick up the arse too. Re-nationalisation of Aer Lingus and nationalisation of telecommunications infrastructure. We're not a big enough country to justify duplication of resources by competing companies. The service provision should be open to competition but the ESB unions for example should be told where to go. ESB Supply should be sold off. Networks should be the only ESB compnay remaining under state control.

Couldn't have put it better myself. But these reforms are going to upset a lot of people which could lose FF a lot of votes. If these reforms don't happen, then FF will still get into power and no one on the periphery will be pushing thm too hard, because there may just be a chance hey could join them in a coalition.

IMHO, What is needed is a modern day Margeret Thatcher. As much as I despised her, she was not afraid of breaking a few eggs whilst making an omelette.

wes099

I feel Manic has a good point..

This Government is too generous to low lifes

ninty9er

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Couldn't have put it better myself. But these reforms are going to upset a lot of people which could lose FF a lot of votes. If these reforms don't happen, then FF will still get into power

But if they do happen, who is going to be stupid enough to come along and say (hint hint: after bitching about public and civil service for 10 years in opposition) well, we'll undo all the good money saving work?

phenomenon

To answer the question posed by the opening post - Yes, Ireland needs a right wing party badly.

FF & FG don't seem to differ on any key issues and both just lie at the centre of the political spectrum, trying to satisfy all while satisfying none. And the Labour party has no realistic chance of ever forming a government on it's own.
The fact is our 2 main political parties were formed over the now redundant issue of partition, which probably explains the apathy shown by the disillusioned youth (of which I am one) to the whole system.

We are witnessing a right-wing backlash across Europe to the softy hippy left wing politics we've had to put up with in recent years. Italy, France and Germany, to name the major countries, have all voted in unashmedly right wing governments and Britain will almost certainly vote in the conservatives in the next general election (they've already killed Labour in the local elections). I reckon the backlash is due to the Isalmification of Europe and the uncontrolled immigration across our borders. And please don't give me the "we need them" argument.

djpbarry

phenomenon wrote: »

I reckon backlash is due the Isalmification of Europe and the uncontrolled immigration across our borders. And please don't give me the "we need them" argument. Nigerians don't work.

Right, well, I can clearly see why you feel Ireland badly needs a right-wing party. :rolleyes:

RealEstateKing

I reckon backlash is due the Isalmification of Europe and the uncontrolled immigration across our borders. And please don't give me the "we need them" argument. Nigerians don't work.

"The Islamification of Europe". Please. Remember that the Daily Mail is soft, strong and thoroughly absorbent, it's not meant to be read.

"Nigerians Dont work" - From what Ive seen on Thomas Street, as I step over yet another Irish person passed out in a pool of his own vomit, while the Poles, the Czechs, The Nigerians and everybody else are on their way to work, you might try examining that prejudice.

irish_bob

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Couldn't have put it better myself. But these reforms are going to upset a lot of people which could lose FF a lot of votes. If these reforms don't happen, then FF will still get into power and no one on the periphery will be pushing thm too hard, because there may just be a chance hey could join them in a coalition.

IMHO, What is needed is a modern day Margeret Thatcher. As much as I despised her, she was not afraid of breaking a few eggs whilst making an omelette.

if you exclude her stance on northern ireland which was wrong headed in every way possible , she was a superb prime minister and by far the most important in the uk since churchill

Dudess

Oh how I hate Thatcher apologists. "If you exclude her stance on Northern Ireland"... also, the Falklands, the miners, the over-zealous privatisation (admittedly one good thing came out of that - she enabled council tenants to buy out their houses), the riots in black communities in '81 and '85, Poll Tax. She did brilliant things for the UK if you were a yuppie ****.

phenomenon wrote: »

Nigerians don't work.

Nope. Not a single one of them. The numerous Nigerian taxi drivers I met when I lived in Dublin were only pretending to be from Nigeria.

Fratton Fred

Dudess wrote: »

Oh how I hate Thatcher apologists. "If you exclude her stance on Northern Ireland"... also, the Falklands, the miners, the over-zealous privatisation (admittedly one good thing came out of that - she enabled council tenants to buy out their houses), the riots in black communities in '81 and '85, Poll Tax. She did brilliant things for the UK if you were a yuppie ****.

Nope. Not a single one of them. The numerous Nigerian taxi drivers I met when I lived in Dublin were only pretending to be from Nigeria.

Thatcher lead the country during a very difficult time. The riots you mention would have happened whoever was in power and as for the miners, well that was going to happen sooner or later. Someone needs to take the same stance with ESB employees imho.

She introduced the concept of pay increases justified by productivity improvements, I'm not sure how anyone can argue with that. The few unions she did not touch, train drivers, tube drivers etc. still think their pay should be based on their ability to **** up people's lives if they go on strike.

People criticise her on NI, but she got the Anglo Irish agreement in place and whilst flawed, paved the way for the GFA. She did as much for Irish unity as any Irish premier has.

As I say, I hated her, but she did what she set out to do and Britain is better for it.

tbh

as soon as the majority of the Irish people want a hard right-wing government, they'll have it. That's the beauty of democracy. The majority of Irish people see through this "I'm not racist but" cr...eh...stuff, so I wouldn't hold my breath. It's not a conspiracy, you just have to accept The hard right, just like the hard left, are a tiny minority of the irish electorate.

GuanYin

Phenomenon, can you please provide some evidence to your claim that Nigerians don't work ("in Ireland" is the bit missing from your claim, I assume).

This forum doesn't allow for blanket statements, especially when they look to be coming from someone with another agenda.

This has been a moderator request.

manic56

phenomenon wrote: »

To answer the question posed by the opening post - Yes, Ireland needs a right wing party badly.

FF & FG don't seem to differ on any key issues and both just lie at the centre of the political spectrum, trying to satisfy all while satisfying none. And the Labour party has no realistic chance of ever forming a government on it's own.
The fact is our 2 main political parties were formed over the now redundant issue of partition, which probably explains the apathy shown by the disillusioned youth (of which I am one) to the whole system.

We are witnessing a right-wing backlash across Europe to the softy hippy left wing politics we've had to put up with in recent years. Italy, France and Germany, to name the major countries, have all voted in unashmedly right wing governments and Britain will almost certainly vote in the conservatives in the next general election (they've already killed Labour in the local elections). I reckon backlash is due the Isalmification of Europe and the uncontrolled immigration across our borders. And please don't give me the "we need them" argument. Nigerians don't work.

Good post except for the last 3 words. You simply cannot get away with saying things like that,you can think it all you want but once you say it you will be crucified. If someone from your job/university found you were posting comments like that you would be in hot water. I am not saying this as PC do gooder or some anti racist activist I am saying this as a highly conservatist individual. If a right wing party was ever to be formed in Ireland I feel it would be snuffed out/irreparably damaged in a flurry of racial controversies stemming from comments by ignorant individuals like you phenomenon.

Moriarty

Threads merged.

Phenom: if you think right-wing parties in europe are something new or something confined purely to pre-ww2, you need to study harder for your leaving cert.

auerillo

Dudess wrote: »

Oh how I hate Thatcher apologists. "If you exclude her stance on Northern Ireland"... also, the Falklands, the miners, the over-zealous privatisation (admittedly one good thing came out of that - she enabled council tenants to buy out their houses), the riots in black communities in '81 and '85, Poll Tax. She did brilliant things for the UK if you were a yuppie ****.

Isn't it extraordinary how Mrs Thatcher still manages to inspire such strong views?

To suggest that Arthur Scargill, and his use of the miners for his own political ends, should not have been challenged by the government of the day is an unusual position to take.

Most people take up a stance on Thatcher, and then decide to either praise her or rubbish her depending on if they like her or not.

The truth, as with many of us, lies somewhere in between. To dismiss privatisation and say the only good thing which came out of it was the sale of council houses (which in any case had nothing to do with the privatisation of industry) forgets the weeks of waiting to get a telephone line, or the constant cash hand outs from the taxpayer to the loss making state owned BP and so on and so on. To ignore her achievements in reforming the civil service, in turning the UK from the economic basket case of Europe into one of the most successful economies in the world, in changing the whole mindset of a generation of people who were resigned to Arthur Scargill & Red Robbo bringing industry to a halt, of leading the way in relaxing restrictive exchange controls... the list goes on & is a long and no doubt a boring one.

To ignore her achievements, and dismiss them, seems unbalanced.

auerillo

tbh wrote: »

as soon as the majority of the Irish people want a hard right-wing government, they'll have it.

It used to be clear what right wing and left wing meant. Right wing was capitalist and left wing was socialist.

Nowadays we use the term "right wing" or "extreme right wing" more as a term of abuse than to try to define an individuals or partys stance.

What policies would a "hard right-wing government " pursue which would differentiate them from ordinary (non-hard) right-wing?

irish_bob

thatcher was dead right on the falklands , 100% of the population of the falklands are british , the millitary junta in argentina were weaning and decided to invade as a way of rallying the country to there cause

i was in argentina 4 yrs ago and got talking to some argentinians about it , they told me that there was little support for the invasion

phenomenon

PSI wrote: »

Phenomenon, can you please provide some evidence to your claim that Nigerians don't work ("in Ireland" is the bit missing from your claim, I assume).

This forum doesn't allow for blanket statements, especially when they look to be coming from someone with another agenda.

This has been a moderator request.

Okay, I completely regret the last 3 words of my original post and will edit it. I put it down to my youthful stupudity.
I don't want to give you my life story but basically I'm one of nine children from a very working class family. It hurts me to see someone work hard all their life only for an immigrant to come along and take their job, after receiving countless benefits. (There is another thread in this forum about Nigerians demanding expensive toothpaste at the Irish tax payers expense).

Someone mentioned Nigerian taxi drivers - these new arrivals are stealing customers from Irish taxi drivers who have been in the business for years, making it harder for everyone to make a living. Next time you are in a cab with an Irish driver just ask for his views on the subject. Maybe you can put this down to the poor regulation of the industry but it's just another example of the state forgetting about it's own native tax paying citizens.

The middle classes (who seem to be the ones most in favour of the recent mass immigration) are not affected by this. Immigrants are no threat to their highly skilled jobs. Immigrants can't afford to move next to them in their expensive estates. It seems the working class are the losers while only the middle and upper classes benefit from the immigration game. Once they have their cheap workers they're happy.
Bring on a right wing government.

Belfast

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What this country needs is a government with a complete mandate, not a government of compromise. Then it needs a leader with a pair of balls.

Left wing or right ing, it doesn't matter. The current one changes depending on who they are talking to.

good point.

Left wing or right wing are not important.
we need a government with a clear plan that is is willing to stand behind not a government by focus groups and special interests.

manic56

[quote=phenomenon;56290514

Someone mentioned Nigerian taxi drivers - these new arrivals are stealing customers from Irish taxi drivers who have been in the business for years, making it harder for everyone to make a living. Next time you are in a cab with an Irish driver just ask for his views on the subject. Maybe you can put this down to the poor regulation of the industry but it's just another example of the state forgetting about it's own native tax paying citizens.

The middle classes (who seem to be the ones most in favour of the recent mass immigration) are not affected by this. Immigrants are no threat to their highly skilled jobs. Immigrants can't afford to move next to them in their expensive estates. It seems the working class are the losers while only the middle and upper classes benefit from the immigration game. Once they have their cheap workers they're happy.
Bring on a right wing government.[/quote]

I completely agree with you phenomenon.While I am not working class and am on the verge of entering a skilled profession I still think its a disgrace that the government is effectively pissing all over a large chunk of society.I'm think it would be a step in the right direction(pardon the pun) if the government put in place a similar system to the points system that is currently in place in Australia this would protect Irish people seeking employment in good honest hard working jobs like taxi driving. I know a the vast majority of my friends would vote for a right wing/conservative party if one was to run in the next elections?So why hasn't anyone come forward.

Belfast

Fratton Fred wrote: »

wht reforms? why shoud FF push through any reforms? why change the status quo?

The PR system we have in place, whilst fair, tries to please everyone and if you do that, you don't get anything done.

The PR system system we use was one of the conditions in the treaty with the British, when Ireland became independent.
It was to protect the 10% protest minority in the free state in the 1920s.

Belfast

irish_bob wrote: »

its very difficult to foresee any goverment tackle the civil service , fianna fail believe in giving the impression that they please everyone so they are unlikely to step on any union toes

as for the alternative of fine gael well thats even more difficult as they rely on labour to form a goverment and the unions and civil service baschially own labour

theese are reasons why i could never understand why the pd,s didnt become a bigger party , they were a libertarian party and many irish people ( certainly more than ever voted pd) have libertarian pro free market tendancies
i believe the reason they died ( pd,s ) was because the vast majority of irish people vote for whoever there ancestors voted for and there was no pd,s back in 1937
people here dont vote about issues

Pds are only party libertarian in the free market.
They are not against monopolies in private medicine.
When in come to civil liberty crime and drugs they are right wing authoritarian.

Belfast

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Couldn't have put it better myself. But these reforms are going to upset a lot of people which could lose FF a lot of votes. If these reforms don't happen, then FF will still get into power and no one on the periphery will be pushing thm too hard, because there may just be a chance hey could join them in a coalition.

IMHO, What is needed is a modern day Margeret Thatcher. As much as I despised her, she was not afraid of breaking a few eggs whilst making an omelette.

Margeret Thatcher was a politician who had vision.
Yes she made mistakes. Irish politician are afraid to do much in case they make a mistake.
We need a leader like here with a plan.

In the end Margaret Thatcher was stabbed in the back by her own people.

No good deed in politics goes unpunished.

Cato

lads dont forget intialy this country was going to be a "Republic" thats what the people who fought tried to set up in the absense of british rule, that dident work out initially as expected... i would say Irish politics would lean more to the left or at least centre left, do we need right wing politics in ireland today?, im starting to think we do, or we could just let the E.U. use us as an international halting site! mass imigration? "send them to ireland sure their loaded!", which ever your more happy with