Irish right wing party?

phenomenon

manic56 wrote: »

I know a the vast majority of my friends would vote for a right wing/conservative party if one was to run in the next elections?So why hasn't anyone come forward?

Why indeed. We need a right-wing party in this country for the sake of choice at least. The Irish love to complain (about transport, housing, the health service and poor infrastructure in general) but seem to do nothing about it. Personally, I'm not looking forward to another 80 years of FF interspersed with brief periods of an incompetent FG government.

Fratton Fred

Belfast wrote: »

Margeret Thatcher was a politician who had vision.
Yes she made mistakes. Irish politician are afraid to do much in case they make a mistake.
We need a leader like here with a plan.

In the end Margaret Thatcher was stabbed in the back by her own people.

No good deed in politics goes unpunished.

Her own party let her down. The tory party had become so drunk on power and detached from normal people, they saw their unpopularity as being her fault and seriously thought that getting rid of her would help them out.

Not too dissimilar to Labour and Mr Blair.

djpbarry

phenomenon wrote: »

It hurts me to see someone work hard all their life only for an immigrant to come along and take their job, after receiving countless benefits.

Can you provide evidence that this is happening? Forgive my scepticism, but this is an oft-repeated criticism of immigrants, i.e. that they're coming over here, getting loads of free stuff from the government, taking our jobs, etc.

phenomenon wrote: »

Someone mentioned Nigerian taxi drivers - these new arrivals are stealing customers from Irish taxi drivers who have been in the business for years, making it harder for everyone to make a living.

So we should prevent immigrants from becoming taxi drivers? Tell you what, next time you're in Dublin City centre at 3am on a Sunday morning, head to one of the many queues at taxi ranks around the city and see how many people agree with you. I doubt you'll find many.

We should probably stop immigrants from becoming bus drivers too, right? Seeing as how they're "stealing" all the shift premiums from their Irish counterparts.

phenomenon wrote: »

Next time you are in a cab with an Irish driver just ask for his views on the subject.

Why? What will that prove?

phenomenon wrote: »

The middle classes (who seem to be the ones most in favour of the recent mass immigration) are not affected by this. Immigrants are no threat to their highly skilled jobs.

Now there you've fallen into the trap of assuming that immigrants are poorly educated; there are plenty of immigrants with third-level qualifications.

manic56 wrote: »

While I am not working class and am on the verge of entering a skilled profession...

I fail to understand what this has to do with anything? I'm from a working-class background but I will (hopefully) be awarded a PhD in the not-too-distant future. Does that make me left-wing, right-wing, authoritarian, libertarian...

manic56 wrote: »

I'm think it would be a step in the right direction(pardon the pun) if the government put in place a similar system to the points system that is currently in place in Australia...

And how would such a system operate exactly?

manic56 wrote: »

I know a the vast majority of my friends would vote for a right wing/conservative party if one was to run in the next elections?So why hasn't anyone come forward.

phenomenon wrote: »

Why indeed. We need a right-wing party in this country for the sake of choice at least.

I think the ICP might be what ye're after lads - they really caused something of a storm in the last general election, earning a whopping 0.06% of first-preference votes.

Cato wrote: »

...do we need right wing politics in ireland today?, im starting to think we do, or we could just let the E.U. use us as an international halting site!

Hmmm....

Haven't seen too many immigrants coming to Ireland in their caravans lately; is this a big problem outside Dublin?

manic56

djpbarry wrote: »

I fail to understand what this has to do with anything? I'm from a working-class background but I will (hopefully) be awarded a PhD in the not-too-distant future. Does that make me left-wing, right-wing, authoritarian, libertarian...

Congratulations on your PhD.I never said your social standing had any effect on your political views, although I'm sure you’re aware certain trends exist.

Phenomom had said the following:

phenomenon wrote: »

The middle classes (who seem to be the ones most in favour of the recent mass immigration) are not affected by this. Immigrants are no threat to their highly skilled jobs. Immigrants can't afford to move next to them in their expensive estates. It seems the working class are the losers while only the middle and upper classes benefit from the immigration game. Once they have their cheap workers they're happy.

I only mentioned my back round as to allay the misconception that all middle class people in skilled jobs didn't care about immigration that Phenomenon had created in his post.

djpbarry wrote: »

And how would such a system operate exactly?

Something like
this:http://www.workpermit.com/australia/point_calculator.htm

djpbarry wrote: »

Haven't seen too many immigrants coming to Ireland in their caravans lately; is this a big problem outside Dublin?

No but i'm sure you have seen plenty of Roma beggers.What are your views on theses people.What purpose do they serve?

Cato

what i meant was the E.U. imposing us with BS imigration laws and quotas all this **** that people are not asking for, or maybe you are one of those fabled legends that are trying to get as many non skilled immigrants in causing even more strain on this tiny island? especially the ones that come here to sponge of our social welfare we already have enough scumbags doing that craic we dont need more.

turgon

To be honest I really don't like conservatives. They just want to conserve everything! Id be all for changing the system drastically if needed, and I hate this thing of not making good decisions cause they're unpopular (hats off to Martins's Smoking Ban).

So if this hypothetical right wing were to be thus conservative I would not vote for them.

djpbarry

manic56 wrote: »

I never said your social standing had any effect on your political views, although I'm sure you’re aware certain trends exist.

I'm trying to dispel the myth that immigrants are entirely working class; I think it's overly simplistic to say that immigrants are "stealing" jobs from the working class in this country. I know many people with third-level qualifications who work alongside people from all over the world. Being from a working class background is not sufficient reason to be anti-immigration (I'm not saying all working class people are!)

On a side note, I hate the term "working class" and I rarely use it because of what it implies.

manic56 wrote: »

Something like
this:http://www.workpermit.com/australia/point_calculator.htm

Something LIKE this, or this EXACT system? If you feel the system would need to be adapted to suit Ireland, how would it be adapted?

manic56 wrote: »

No but i'm sure you have seen plenty of Roma beggers.What are your views on theses people.What purpose do they serve?

I assume you're referring to foreigners begging on the streets? Well, I can't say for sure that they are Roma - I don't know who they are or where they are from. Regardless, they are (probably) EU citizens and, as such, they are free to enter Ireland. If I see someone begging on the street, I do not treat them differently based on their (apparent) nationality.

Cato wrote: »

what i meant was the E.U. imposing us with BS imigration laws and quotas...

Can you give examples of "BS immigration laws and quotas" that the EU has "imposed" on us?

Cato wrote: »

...maybe you are one of those fabled legends that are trying to get as many non skilled immigrants in causing even more strain on this tiny island?

:rolleyes: Another subscriber to the belief that all immigrants are uneducated imbeciles. Been in any hospitals lately?

Cato wrote: »

...especially the ones that come here to sponge of our social welfare...

Which ones are these? Can you provide evidence that immigrants are coming to Ireland en masse to "sponge off" the state?

menoscemo

Cato wrote: »

especially the ones that come here to sponge of our social welfare

This is the biggest urban myth going. Immigrants (including EU ones) are not entitled to social welfare until they have been working for 2 years in this country, which is more than most of the Irsh people on it have done in their lives.
This legislation was brought in before the accession of the eastern European countries.

Fratton Fred

menoscemo wrote: »

This is the biggest urban myth going. Immigrants (including EU ones) are not entitled to social welfare until they have been working for 2 years in this country, which is more than most of the Irsh people on it have done in their lives.
This legislation was brought in before the accession of the eastern European countries.

That's not strictly true, us British Immigrants are entitled to welfare from pretty much the day we get off the boat.

What I can't understand, is why people think a young person (quite often a graduate) would go to the trouble of learning English, drive god knows how far to Calais, to catch a ferry to Dover, then drive to Holyhead to catch another ferry to Ireland just so they can sit on their arse and glaim benefits.

Jesus, anyione who is prepared to catch a bus or drive from Wroclaw to Dublin sounds like the sort of person who is prepared to get off their arse and work.

dresden8

Fratton Fred wrote: »

That's not strictly true, us British Immigrants are entitled to welfare from pretty much the day we get off the boat.

.

That's not quite strictly true either. Even Irish people are subject to the Habitual Residence condition. The fact is that most obviously fulfill it.

that's why you hear about Missionaries back on their summer hols not getting pensions and stuff, because they'll be going back abroad.

The Irish are subject as it would be discriminatory to apply it to other EU nations, and not the Irish

Fratton Fred

dresden8 wrote: »

That's not quite strictly true either. Even Irish people are subject to the Habitual Residence condition. The fact is that most obviously fulfill it.

that's why you hear about Missionaries back on their summer hols not getting pensions and stuff, because they'll be going back abroad.

The Irish are subject as it would be discriminatory to apply it to other EU nations, and not the Irish

yeah, but habitual residence for both countires is the UK or Ireland. I've been here for 18 months but I can claim benefit if I needed to because I lived in the uk for errr quite a few years

Cato

djpbarry wrote: »

I'm trying to dispel the myth that immigrants are entirely working class; I think it's overly simplistic to say that immigrants are "stealing" jobs from the working class in this country. I know many people with third-level qualifications who work alongside people from all over the world. Being from a working class background is not sufficient reason to be anti-immigration (I'm not saying all working class people are!)

On a side note, I hate the term "working class" and I rarely use it because of what it implies.
Something LIKE this, or this EXACT system? If you feel the system would need to be adapted to suit Ireland, how would it be adapted?
I assume you're referring to foreigners begging on the streets? Well, I can't say for sure that they are Roma - I don't know who they are or where they are from. Regardless, they are (probably) EU citizens and, as such, they are free to enter Ireland. If I see someone begging on the street, I do not treat them differently based on their (apparent) nationality.
Can you give examples of "BS immigration laws and quotas" that the EU has "imposed" on us?
:rolleyes: Another subscriber to the belief that all immigrants are uneducated imbeciles. Been in any hospitals lately?
Which ones are these? Can you provide evidence that immigrants are coming to Ireland en masse to "sponge off" the state?

i could but your just a troll and i don't have the time to discuss the same stuff over and over again because your obviously dead set on your beliefs that all is well immigration, and your pretty much just going to refute anything i say, because thats all you really can do sit on your arse and make excuses for yourself and attack people who have a different outlook than you, do you really think asking me useless questions some way proves you moral high ground? eh troll?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Cato wrote: »

i could but your just a troll and i don't have the time to discuss the same stuff over and over again because your obviously dead set on your beliefs that all is well immigration, and your pretty much just going to refute anything i say, because thats all you really can do sit on your arse and make excuses for yourself and attack people who have a different outlook than you, do you really think asking me useless questions some way proves you moral high ground? eh troll?

that is one common problem with internet forums.

Dudess

irish_bob wrote: »

thatcher was dead right on the falklands , 100% of the population of the falklands are british , the millitary junta in argentina were weaning and decided to invade as a way of rallying the country to there cause

i was in argentina 4 yrs ago and got talking to some argentinians about it , they told me that there was little support for the invasion

I think it's priceless the way she claimed to be so utterly appalled by the dictatorship in Argentina... yet she became great mates with Pinochet.

**** Thatcher.

menoscemo

Fratton Fred wrote: »

That's not strictly true, us British Immigrants are entitled to welfare from pretty much the day we get off the boat.

What I can't understand, is why people think a young person (quite often a graduate) would go to the trouble of learning English, drive god knows how far to Calais, to catch a ferry to Dover, then drive to Holyhead to catch another ferry to Ireland just so they can sit on their arse and glaim benefits.

Jesus, anyione who is prepared to catch a bus or drive from Wroclaw to Dublin sounds like the sort of person who is prepared to get off their arse and work.

Grand but I don't think he was referring to UK citizens when he was slaggin off 'them immigrants'.

menoscemo

Cato wrote: »

i could but your just a troll and i don't have the time to discuss the same stuff over and over again because your obviously dead set on your beliefs that all is well immigration, and your pretty much just going to refute anything i say, because thats all you really can do sit on your arse and make excuses for yourself and attack people who have a different outlook than you, do you really think asking me useless questions some way proves you moral high ground? eh troll?

Sounds like you actually don't have a factual argument and are happy to just spout off, second-hand, made up soundbytes taht someone told you down the pub.

turgon

Dudess wrote: »

**** Thatcher.

Well I dont know much about her, however in the course of studying history we cam across her as a part of the Anglo-Irish Treaty 1985. Her response to the subsequent unionist protests was very admirable - just ignore them. Maybe we need some more "Iron" politicians who are not whipped by political correctness.

Or maybe Ive understood her wrong.

djpbarry

Cato wrote: »

...attack people who have a different outlook than you...

Do irony much?

Cato wrote: »

do you really think asking me useless questions some way proves you moral high ground?

So you can't answer my questions? That's what I thought.

Cato

menoscemo wrote: »

Sounds like you actually don't have a factual argument and are happy to just spout off, second-hand, made up soundbytes taht someone told you down the pub.

Nope i actually do know what it is about.

mountainyman

KERPAL wrote: »

Its you kind of lunatics that berate people for sympathising with Nazis, but at the same time sympathise with Stalins reign of terror, Mao Tse tsungs forced industrial growth, North Koreas current dictatorship as well as Burmas current rulers. The disaster that has been socialism/communism has resulted in hundreds of millions more deaths than any far right rule has ever caused.

I certainly would be sympathetic to China. The rule of the Chinese communist party is lifting 100 million people a year out of absolute poverty.

COMMUNISM WORKS!!

mountainyman

Cato wrote: »

what i meant was the E.U. imposing us with BS imigration laws and quotas all this.

The EU didn't force the government to open the door to Eastern European Intra EU immigration. They did that all on their lonesome.

MM

Mad Finn

manic56 wrote: »

There is an almost endless list of things that should be changed.

First of all there would have to be a huge change in the way unemployment benefit is distributed. People who sign on the dole should have to complete at least 20 hours of community service a week.

Doing what? Taking out bins? Weeding gardens? Sweeping streets?

What an intolerable distortion of the market that is already being catered for by people already offering services, for suitable remuneration, in this field. Why should sturdy self employed entrepreneurs with the initiative, drive and courage to establish such businesses be undercut by state subsidised low-cost, demoralised yellow-pack labour like you are suggesting?

I think you're going to find yourself drummed out of your new no-nonsense economically driven party pretty quickly.

redarmyblues

'One of the biggest objections I had in the past, towards this country was that there was far, far, too many Irish people living here. As a people we are incredibly complancent and have an unqestioned regard for the petty predujices of their own parish .

I emigrated to London in the late 1980's with many other Irish, I got my first start on my Uncles say so with O Rourkes on the Harbour Exchange down at South Quay. I left a dole queue here to go over. The consenus was among the Irish I worked with was that it was our patriotic duty to sign on as many doles as possible and under no circumstance pay any rent, even though we were very well paid on that job. I have to say we Irish were very bad emigrants, some guys never washed from week to week, many drank heavily, violence and public disturbances among our community were common. And all the while the IRA where doing their level best to blow the Shyte of the place. We used to go up to the Archway Tavern and jump around to Come Out Ye Black and Tans and stagger through the streets chanting IRA songs, and the funny thing is nobody ever said a bad word to you even though I was sometimes too embarassed after some atrocity or other to say my fare aloud to the Driver in case people would recognise my accent.

I would think that most of the contriboutors to this thread are Golf Club bores who have to hang out here to vent their tedious opinions since they maxed out their credit cards. Because by the sound of it you have known anything except prosperity, you have never really had your balls on the line, had the Landlords boot on the door of your Flat at 6 in the morning, got screwed in the ass by the Subbie for your wages, never got that unprovoked kicking on Neadsen High Street, never been slapped around Paddington Nick by the good old Bill. Never had a helping hand and a kind word from some kind old native boy and never had kind of fun that we had we were away from small minded sihtty old 1980's Ireland and making a fortune.

I have come home since and I run a couple of businesses here and I have to say the atmosphere here the last few years is pretty similar to the one that obtained in Britain under Thatcher, an all lot of people in Business here now cut their teeth there then. It is an OK Country to do Business in apart from some unneeded over regulation in certain sectors.

K-9

redarmyblues wrote: »

The consenus was among the Irish I worked with was that it was our patriotic duty to sign on as many doles as possible and under no circumstance pay any rent, even though we were very well paid on that job. I have to say we Irish were very bad emigrants, some guys never washed from week to week, many drank heavily, violence and public disturbances among our community were common. And all the while the IRA where doing their level best to blow the Shyte of the place. We used to go up to the Archway Tavern and jump around to Come Out Ye Black and Tans and stagger through the streets chanting IRA songs, and the funny thing is nobody ever said a bad word to you even though I was sometimes too embarassed after some atrocity or other to say my fare aloud to the Driver in case people would recognise my accent.

I would think that most of the contriboutors to this thread are Golf Club bores who have to hang out here to vent their tedious opinions since they maxed out their credit cards. Because by the sound of it you have known anything except prosperity, you have never really had your balls on the line, had the Landlords boot on the door of your Flat at 6 in the morning, got screwed in the ass by the Subbie for your wages, never got that unprovoked kicking on Neadsen High Street, never been slapped around Paddington Nick by the good old Bill. Never had a helping hand and a kind word from some kind old native boy and never had kind of fun that we had we were away from small minded sihtty old 1980's Ireland and making a fortune.

Excellent post.

tbh

redarmyblues wrote: »

Because by the sound of it you have known anything except prosperity, you have never really had your balls on the line, had the Landlords boot on the door of your Flat at 6 in the morning, got screwed in the ass by the Subbie for your wages, never got that unprovoked kicking on Neadsen High Street, never been slapped around Paddington Nick by the good old Bill.

and 99% of the time it's because of their parents, not what they've achieved by themselves.