Silence in the librarys -s04 ep08

Doctor DooM

Lurve the Moff.

Seeing a repeating motif here- the character that knows the Doctor from the future(Like Sally Sparrow).

The scary as hell bad guy repeating themselves.

Loved the writing, liking the story.

Thinking the shadow monstery things might work their way into the finale?

Disappointed with the lack of banana mention. Slipping Moffat!

However, pleased with the shop love.

deRanged

I liked that. That's how they should be written.

I'm really really hoping that a certain someone falls to the monsters.

Doctor DooM

deRanged wrote: »

I liked that. That's how they should be written.

I'm really really hoping that a certain someone falls to the monsters.

It was pretty strongly hinted that a certain someone will end up brown bread in this one...

deRanged

seriously? happy days!
though knowing that certain person the 'ghosting' will be both loud and lengthy.

Doctor DooM

deRanged wrote: »

seriously? happy days!
though knowing that certain person the 'ghosting' will be both loud and lengthy.

Yes when the person in question was talking with Summer she askeed why she wasnt travelling with the Doctor in the future, to which Summer replied with a big blank, "you DEAD, bitch" stare.

thusspakeblixa

A real return to form. This episode restored my faith in this series.
Ok so it relied on a few classic archetypes (eg. ''The Faceless Monster'') but the quality of the script was just outstanding.
The side-plot of Riversong really kept me guessing, and Moffat kept with his usual excellent cliff-hanger ending which left me wanting more now
All in all I'm very very happy!

pixelburp

Indeed, that was much more like it & sure enough, it took the Moff to haul the show back on its feet. A great setup, an intriguing mystery (what IS the girls connection with the library - cos the psychiatrist seemed to know more than he was letting on), and a scary monster / villain that once again has a unique motif or calling-card. "Count the shadows" indeed!

Plus, the "ghosting" scene was so beautifully done & so tragic; listening to the unknowing voices of the dead speak their last. Shudder, that's just as creepy as hell and made for a great scene. Coupled with the corpse heads stuck on statues (being used as information terminals, I mean c'mon - that's just effed up!) and it was much one of the more macabre episodes of the New Series.

River Songs character & the plot involving her and the Doctor wasn't as wobbly as I though it might have been - the "mystery" is being stretched out a decent pace (even if it's blatently obvious to everyone except the Doctor who River Song is).

As for the suggestions about Donna, well I dunno. There are rumours that she bites the big one, though I'm not so sure. Let's not forget that series 2 had a number of "rose is going to die" (let's not forget the Devils own remarks about the "child who dies in battle") moments only for us to be sold up the river and have her slip off to the parallel universe.

The only minus point comes, once again, with the music. Sorry, I meant the MUSIC. Some scenes of geniune tension and emotion were just hammered over the head by that obnoxiously loud din.

But hey, looking forward to the second part - I really want to know what's going on (and you can't have a better advertisement for a two parter than that!)

Doctor DooM

pixelburp wrote: »

Indeed, that was much more like it & sure enough, it took the Moff to haul the show back on its feet. A great setup, an intriguing mystery (what IS the girls connection with the library - cos the psychiatrist seemed to know more than he was letting on), and a scary monster / villain that once again has a unique motif or calling-card. "Count the shadows" indeed!

Plus, the "ghosting" scene was so beautifully done & so tragic; listening to the unknowing voices of the dead speak their last. Shudder, that's just as creepy as hell and made for a great scene. Coupled with the corpse heads stuck on statues (being used as information terminals, I mean c'mon - that's just effed up!) and it was much one of the more macabre episodes of the New Series.

River Songs character & the plot involving her and the Doctor wasn't as wobbly as I though it might have been - the "mystery" is being stretched out a decent pace (even if it's blatently obvious to everyone except the Doctor who River Song is).

As for the suggestions about Donna, well I dunno. There are rumours that she bites the big one, though I'm not so sure. Let's not forget that series 2 had a number of "rose is going to die" (let's not forget the Devils own remarks about the "child who dies in battle") moments only for us to be sold up the river and have her slip off to the parallel universe.

The only minus point comes, once again, with the music. Sorry, I meant the MUSIC. Some scenes of geniune tension and emotion were just hammered over the head by that obnoxiously loud din.

But hey, looking forward to the second part - I really want to know what's going on (and you can't have a better advertisement for a two parter than that!)

His MA?

Sorry couldnt resist.

You're dead right about the music, even dead ringers has taken the piss out of it.

BuffyBot

Some good points - as mentioned about, the whole little girl/Dr Moon/library relationship is pretty interesting. Don't think it's as good as some of his other stories though.

Too many cast members meant too little time for everyone though. River Song..hmm, Moffat could return her in the future I guess, especially now that he's getting the helm. (And if Kingston would sign up, of course).

Will be interesting to see how next week pans out.

BlitzKrieg

Loved every second of it.

It was a Moffet story that got me onto Doctor Who, and the man just keeps on delivering.

Though

I'm guessing the *they have been saved* is taking the computer term of save rather then the rescue term. Also I thought Call was Call as in phone cause it came just after the phone ringing bit...

But fantastic episode, and the classic

skeleton in a a spacesuit was realised brilliantly

Have to say its biggest strength over the other episodes is in its timing with the dialogue, all the information comes out at the perfect time.

and finally most disturbing bit for me was

the slow girls last line being *ice cream*

Jack B. Badd

Very Time Traveller's Wife imo but in a good way. I think too much of this series and the previous has been dealt with in a far too linear way and it was really interesting to see Moffat stretch the boundaries of the time travel aspect again. Can't wait til next week

Oh and I loved The Doctor's comment about his sonic screwdriver not working on wood! I get the impression that Moffat is as annoyed as most of the fans about the over-reliance on tech in this season. I'll personally be counting down the episodes until he replaces that other idiot Davies.

microgirl

Jack B. Badd wrote: »

Very Time Traveller's Wife imo but in a good way.

That's *exactly* what I was coming on here to say! Lifted lock, stock and barrel, but since it's such a good concept I really don't mind (as an aside, anyone who hasn't read that book really, really should ) Though I think I remember making a similar comment about The Girl in the Fireplace, and wasn't that Moffat too? So perhaps he needs to be a little more careful.

I loved the little girl and Dr Moon element, and am looking forward to the explanation for all that (always presuming there is one) but I'll be disappointed if there's a death at this stage.

BlitzKrieg - it wasn't "call" it was Cal, so your theory doesn't really work.

pixelburp

That idiot Davies was the one who brought back the show in the first place & has been responsible for some kick ass episodes of his own. So mind your Ps and Qs

As for River Song, I have a feeling that she's going to die in this episode and explained away with the handy "paradox" explanation again.

Fysh

pixelburp wrote: »

That idiot Davies was the one who brought back the show in the first place & has been responsible for some kick ass episodes of his own. So mind your Ps and Qs

In fairness, he did some good episodes in the first two seasons but once Season 3 came around with the whole Martha storyline, the quality of his episodes has dropped significantly and frankly, past glories aren't a good enough reason for this to be overlooked.

Hopefully River Song will be kept around as a potential future storyline. The little girl's library thing should allow for some interesting development (on a related note,

the scene where Dr Moon explained that the real world is fake and the nightmare world is real reminded me a lot of the Neo/Morpheus "would you like the red pill or the blue pill" scene in The Matrix

). I'm wondering if we'll get to see any of the other "saved" people, given the suggestion that the teleport unit was involved in the saving process...

TheForeSkins

Great episode, prob my favourite this season so far, cant wait to find out the secrets behind everything or at least find out what happens to Donna and how they get out of this one. Interesting the lads from the League of Gentlemen seem to be popping up so much in recent Dr Who isnt it lol?

Maybe we could have the Dr land in Royston Vasey one day lol

ixoy

Once again the best episode of the season goes to Moffat - that's pretty much four seasons in a row. Thank Omega he's taking over from that IDIOT Davies (sorry pixelburp).

Moffat has a real feel for the darkness, for the terror in things. Perhaps the series in his hands may reflect something akin to the Hinchcliffe era of the original run?
This one's data ghost was a neat idea, the fading echoes of someone's last thoughts was quite intense. Donna's reaction was quite good and I, for one, would not be happy to think she's just been iced so abruptly and nastily.

Pacing was good in this episode and for once the running was justified in context and actually helped the tension - I'd ask RTD to take note and write it down, but it doesn't matter because he's leaving anyway!

River Song was quite interesting and I'm not sure that it's obvious who she is - did I miss something? Or do you just mean it's obvious that she's the Doctor's future companion (maybe more)? If she is, from what I saw here, she'd be quite welcome - she seemed resourceful without having to adopt perky "sassy" attitude and making googly eyes at the Doctor. It could well be that Moffat's lining her up for when he takes over - of course if he's really nasty, she'll die the next episode and when she joins the Doctor it'll be with him knowing her ultimate fate.

As to the little girl - intruiging. Like some sort of bizarre Matrix: I'm guessing she's the AI of the library or some part of it (other elements being represented by Moon and her father). She's quite likely the security system and that's how she communicates with the Doctor (Moon being perhaps the knowledge banks?). That's why the people are "saved" - the library stores their data nodes in its databanks and preserves their memories.

pixelburp

ixoy wrote: »

Once again the best episode of the season goes to Moffat - that's pretty much four seasons in a row. Thank Omega he's taking over from that IDIOT Davies (sorry pixelburp).

That's allright, nothing personal Only a few threads ago I was happy to see the back of RTD, so by no means am I an ardent fan of his; I think his time is done. But I strongly believe it's unfair to call him an "idiot". He had a plan & direction that the show went in, with a bunch of overall plot arcs that I don't think are quite yet finished. Sure they weren't all to peoples tastes, but then the same can be said of any era of Who. Heck, there are people that simply HATED the so-called Golden era of Hinchcliffe & Tom BAker. At the end of the day, he took a TV show that was not only extinct, but the butt of many jokes & turned it into television golddust, while simultaneously reintroducing the concept of primtime, family TV - a concept that was presumed dead. That's no mean feat.

ixoy wrote: »

River Song was quite interesting and I'm not sure that it's obvious who she is - did I miss something? Or do you just mean it's obvious that she's the Doctor's future companion (maybe more)? If she is, from what I saw here, she'd be quite welcome - she seemed resourceful without having to adopt perky "sassy" attitude and making googly eyes at the Doctor. It could well be that Moffat's lining her up for when he takes over - of course if he's really nasty, she'll die the next episode and when she joins the Doctor it'll be with him knowing her ultimate fate.

Ignoring the rumours from the press & just looking at the episode it was clear to me that River Song is a lover of the Doctor from his future. Her diary of events & the few she namedchecked sounded like dates, not to mention the obvious tearful longing in her face when she realised she had cocked up the message & it reached him too soon. Before it dawned on her she was caressing his face quite gently. Methinks she is his wife.

But then it's nothing that didn't already exist in some Bernice Summerfield fan-fiction

ixoy wrote: »

As to the little girl - intruiging. Like some sort of bizarre Matrix: I'm guessing she's the AI of the library or some part of it (other elements being represented by Moon and her father). She's quite likely the security system and that's how she communicates with the Doctor (Moon being perhaps the knowledge banks?). That's why the people are "saved" - the library stores their data nodes in its databanks and preserves their memories.

I'm glad to see Colin Salmon in Doctor Who - he's such a fun yet deadpan genre actor, I'm only surprised that it took so long for him to appear in New Who.

Venom

Moffat does with such ease what every Doctor Who writer dreams of being able to do, making little kids scared senseless of everyday things Statues - check, the dark - check and next season a hat trick of scary sofa's so the little tykes cant even hide behind those lol.

I loved the sonic screwdriver vs wood as has been stated its overuse is just getting silly at this point but also the more sutle huge over the top number of life forms to highlight the crazy random numbers RTD like to through into the mix.

Also the kids drawings on the walls of the blonde girl and the wolf are much more sublte that the random Rose clips tossed into the last few episodes.

SirLemonhead

Great episode.

I still hate all the hammy acting though..."hey! who turned out the lights!"

Doctor DooM

I don't think its fair to slag RTD. There'd be no nu Who without him.


Doesn't mean I don't think we'd be better off if he stepped down now.

Jack B. Badd

SDooM wrote: »

I don't think its fair to slag RTD. There'd be no nu Who without him.

See, I kinda doubt that. It's the longest running sci-fi show ever, eventually someone would have resurrected the tv show aspect of it. I reckon that RTD had about 2 seasons' worth of good material (helped by the loss of Eccleston at the end of season one) but it's taken far too long for him to realise that he needed to hand it over to someone else. I hold his ego responsible for most of the downturn over the past 2 seasons.

BlitzKrieg

hmmm

if they dont use a paradox at the end of this 2 parter wont that mean David Tennant is pretty much has to be the doctor for a bit longer at least.

seeing as river song recognised him physically, he just appears younger, if he has regeneration without a substantial time gap (so its believable that he runs around with her on those dates she mentions) then it becomes a plot hole?

Doctor DooM

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

hmmm

if they dont use a paradox at the end of this 2 parter wont that mean David Tennant is pretty much has to be the doctor for a bit longer at least.

seeing as river song recognised him physically, he just appears younger, if he has regeneration without a substantial time gap (so its believable that he runs around with her on those dates she mentions) then it becomes a plot hole?

All they have to do to give the Doctor a gap in time where this could occur is have him disappear in the Tardis alone just once. God knows how long he is alone/ what he gets up to before he rematerialises.

aidan_walsh

Its not unlike Moffat to shy away from a paradox when needed though, as we saw with Davidson's & Tennant's "wibbley wobbley" escape.

BlitzKrieg

SDooM wrote: »

All they have to do to give the Doctor a gap in time where this could occur is have him disappear in the Tardis alone just once. God knows how long he is alone/ what he gets up to before he rematerialises.

thats what I was assuming they needed to do, but they dont leave the doctor alone alot. I think the start of season 4 is the only one of the top of my head where a gap of time is believable.

Doctor DooM

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

thats what I was assuming they needed to do, but they dont leave the doctor alone alot. I think the start of season 4 is the only one of the top of my head where a gap of time is believable.

There's a lost year in the infinite quest too. They could sling it in quite easily, and we all know RTD has no problem using cheap sci- fi solutions to problems.

Jack B. Badd

Did anyone get the impression it wasn't so much about age as weariness (for want of a better phrase). That comment River Song made about his eyes in particular makes me think that something major has happened since she first met him or before he first meets her.

Doctor DooM

Jack B. Badd wrote: »

Did anyone get the impression it wasn't so much about age as weariness (for want of a better phrase). That comment River Song made about his eyes in particular makes me think that something major has happened since she first met him or before he first meets her.

Good point. After all, his "physical" age shifts which each regeneration.

Doctor DooM

Jack B. Badd wrote: »

See, I kinda doubt that. It's the longest running sci-fi show ever, eventually someone would have resurrected the tv show aspect of it. I reckon that RTD had about 2 seasons' worth of good material (helped by the loss of Eccleston at the end of season one) but it's taken far too long for him to realise that he needed to hand it over to someone else. I hold his ego responsible for most of the downturn over the past 2 seasons.

Someone already tried and failed. Just before RTD managed, it looked like it might be animated Who as opposed to live action.

TheForeSkins

SDooM wrote: »

Someone already tried and failed. Just before RTD managed, it looked like it might be animated Who as opposed to live action.

I dont think it will be animated. Besides they have already said there will be 4 episodes in 2009, specials, and then it will return for a full 5th season in 2010 with tennant in the driving seat. I saw the Animated Episode, the Infinite Quest, and I liked it tbh but it was a stand alone episode with no real purpose and the animation was never going to stand up to the real life Dr Who

Doctor DooM

TheForeSkins wrote: »

I dont think it will be animated. Besides they have already said there will be 4 episodes in 2009, specials, and then it will return for a full 5th season in 2010 with tennant in the driving seat. I saw the Animated Episode, the Infinite Quest, and I liked it tbh but it was a stand alone episode with no real purpose and the animation was never going to stand up to the real life Dr Who

Eh... thats not what I was saying at all. I was in response to people saying if RTD didn't ressurect Who, someone would have. I was pointing out there were already 2 attempts to resurrect Who- the 96 film and the animated film.