New L/Provisonal Drivers Rule/ Law

Anan1

Climate Expert wrote: »

Thats the excuse they would use for what is a bull**** test. Statistically full licenced drivers are more likely to be involved in an accident in Ireland. That was reported about a year or two ago.

Per Km travelled?

ninty9er

Climate Expert wrote: »

Thats the excuse they would use for what is a bull**** test. Statistically full licenced drivers are more likely to be involved in an accident in Ireland. That was reported about a year or two ago.

Obviously, if there are more of them then more will be involved in accidents:rolleyes:

dloob

I see in a report today that 20,000 drivers are on their sixth or later provisional.
They really have no excuse and should be off the road.

knifey_spoonie

What really gets me angry about these new laws is the fact you cant sit a test within six months of getting a permit, they talk about about trying to reduce the number learner drivers on the road,


I myself passed my test after just turing 17 (6 weeks), all they will do is encourage driving alone, with the silly and pointless law

bigpinkelephant

You know what I was half-thinking?

Since this problem is so widespread- learners driving unaccompanied day in day out- the Guards should get some sort of bonus to catch them. Even maybe €5 for each one- if a Guard had a checkpoint for even 45 minutes he would have made a fortune! This might not go down too well because I know a lot of people don't like the Guards..

Around where I lived during my J1 in America, the bouncers got a bonus for every fake I.D. they caught. You made sure your fake I.D. was REALLY good over there!

Anan1

knife_fighter wrote: »

What really gets me angry about these new laws is the fact you cant sit a test within six months of getting a permit, they talk about about trying to reduce the number learner drivers on the road,


I myself passed my test after just turing 17 (6 weeks), all they will do is encourage driving alone, with the silly and pointless law

Learner drivers have to learn, but it's safer for both them and the rest of us if they do so while accompanied by a competent driver. In many countries you can't drive outside of a driving school car until you've passed your test, and with good reason.

kmart6

Well that's it,they would always be keeping you close enough to a centre and woulnd't have you on a 100kph road....and they prob try and avoid them for their own safety incase the person doing the test is actually sh1t at driving:D

ninty9er

knife_fighter wrote: »

What really gets me angry about these new laws is the fact you cant sit a test within six months of getting a permit, they talk about about trying to reduce the number learner drivers on the road,


I myself passed my test after just turing 17 (6 weeks), all they will do is encourage driving alone, with the silly and pointless law

In fairness there's sense behind that. You can't really learn much in 6 weeks unless you spend a 2 hours a week with your instructor...and that's if you ALREADY know the basics. PLus the classroom parts that are coming down the line.

I'm glad lessons are now going to be compulsory too as opposed to the bad habit home learning kit.

L1011

ninty9er wrote: »

I'm glad lessons are now going to be compulsory too as opposed to the bad habit home learning kit.

I know many people taught by instructors who are woeful, best one being the fact that I don't think there was an instructor out there ten years ago who understood how roundabouts worked...

ADI registration will have stripped out the cowboys, but being taught by an instructor does NOT guarantee that you'll be any better than someone self-taught.

As it goes, I wasn't taught by anyone, ever, did 5 hours of pretests and was told I'd pass after the first hour, spent the remaining 4 mostly talking to the instructor about classic cars! Passed first time...

Spud83

ninty9er wrote: »

In fairness there's sense behind that. You can't really learn much in 6 weeks unless you spend a 2 hours a week with your instructor...and that's if you ALREADY know the basics. PLus the classroom parts that are coming down the line.

I'm glad lessons are now going to be compulsory too as opposed to the bad habit home learning kit.

You see I agree with the compulsory amount of lessons and believe that would be a better system than forcing people to wait six months. Nobody knows how much effort anyone would put in that six months. They may do nothing until the last two weeks, the may take lessons every week who is to know.

If this is only a temporary measure until compulsory lessons come in then fine, otherwise its a bit pointless.

ninty9er

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

You see I agree with the compulsory amount of lessons and believe that would be a better system than forcing people to wait six months. Nobody knows how much effort anyone would put in that six months. They may do nothing until the last two weeks, the may take lessons every week who is to know.

If this is only a temporary measure until compulsory lessons come in then fine, otherwise its a bit pointless.

Compulsory lessons are here as of next Tuesday my friend!

Damien360

MYOB wrote: »

I know many people taught by instructors who are woeful, best one being the fact that I don't think there was an instructor out there ten years ago who understood how roundabouts worked...

To be fair, the roundabout rules appear to change in this country depending on local knowledge. I drive all over the country and see this all the time.

In Cork, the bandon Road roundabout closest to the city, nobody changes lane coming from the bandon road to exit at the 3 o'clock exit.

In mayo, Castlebar, 3 roundabouts in a row and rules change for each. Left lane is not always for going straight.

In galway, city, approach on many roundabouts ok but the one before you get to the millenium bridge roundabout is a free for all. Right lane is used to get to 9 o'clock exit.

There are loads more like that.

To add the thread, the guy on Matt Cooper today form Kerry summed it up. He failed his test in April and promptly got back in to his car and drove home. And he was complaining it was not fair to expect him to have a qualified driver sitting next to him. Typical Ireland doing things backwards.

ninty9er

Damien360 wrote: »

And he was complaining it was not fair to expect him to have a qualified driver sitting next to him.

Why not??

Anywho....on the roundabout issue; it does depend on the setting. Right lane can be straight depending on road markings and how many degrees from the exit you're entering from.

-Chris-

I never drove a car alone before passing my test. I never got put on my dad's insurance or bought a car until I passed.

I did 4/5 months of lessons before my test and passed first time.

I think this is the best way to learn to drive.

I think that it's important to make the driving test more practical and more like real driving, too many people say "well, I failed, but the test isn't realistic. I'm a deadly driver and very safe, but the test doesn't test that, it's not like real driving."

WALOB!

Make the test stricter
Make it more detailed
Make it happen in a greater variety of situations
Make it harder to be a driving instructor
Make it more likely for people to be dropped from a full licence back to a provisional licence - once you pass, it doesn't excuse you from improving or maintaining your standards

Damien360

You fail your test because you are considered unsafe as a driver. You then drive away content that there is no penalty for this. You need a qualified driver to put you straight and get you home safely.

As for roundabouts. I am talking about the many roundabouts with no lane markings and it is local knowledge only applies. Many, although not all, of the roundabouts have one entrance and 3 exits all set at N,S,E,W. The right lane is for 3rd exit only. makes it much safer. Approach to Belfast from M1 a glaring exception to this. I am pretty sure it is in the rules of the road handbook that the left lane is for first and second exits only but I am open to correction.

Damien360

AudiChris wrote: »

Make the test stricter
Make it more detailed
Make it happen in a greater variety of situations
Make it harder to be a driving instructor
Make it more likely for people to be dropped from a full licence back to a provisional licence - once you pass, it doesn't excuse you from improving or maintaining your standards

+1

L1011

AudiChris wrote: »

Make it happen in a greater variety of situations

I agree with this, generally people do their driving test on daytime, non rush hour roads in full light, dry or somewhat wet - not any majorly dangerous conditions. All sorts of stuff just isn't covered due to route problems, in many areas you won't get to go on dual carriageways and in nearly every test centre some of the most obscure things like level crossings, single track bridges, narrow roads aren't covered.

I believe the German test covers a lot more situations like this.

AudiChris wrote: »

Make it harder to be a driving instructor

Has been done, thankfully. ADI registration is now required if doing driving instruction for profit.

DonJose

Climate Expert wrote: »

If you do a maths exam and are in line for 95% you don't instantly fail the exam because of one question.

Same applies to flying a plane, took off perfectly, flew perfectly, lined up for landing perfectly but crashed on landing, damn the last 5%

Ciaran500

ninty9er wrote: »

Compulsory lessons are here as of next Tuesday my friend!

Ehh, source?

-Chris-

MYOB wrote: »

I agree with this, generally people do their driving test on daytime, non rush hour roads in full light, dry or somewhat wet - not any majorly dangerous conditions. All sorts of stuff just isn't covered due to route problems, in many areas you won't get to go on dual carriageways and in nearly every test centre some of the most obscure things like level crossings, single track bridges, narrow roads aren't covered.

I think the single biggest, black-and-white example of the way the test needs to be revamped is that you're not allowed to drive on motorways while you're a learner, you're not tested on motorway driving, and then once you pass, you're magically able to travel at 120kmph in 2 tons of metal, knowing exactly what to do when someone ahead of you brakes heavily in the dark and the rain.


With regards to the roundabouts, the rules of the road don't change from region to region.
Local knowledge will tell you the left lane jams up at rush hour because of the pedestrian crossing, but if you're in the right lane, it's ok to take the left exit because it's got two lanes anyway... and this happens everywhere, btw.
Stricter training and stricter enforcement would result in more consistent driver behavior and the resulting safety improvements.

Climate Expert

knowing exactly what to do when someone ahead of you brakes heavily in the dark and the rain.

I would hazard a guess that every single driver in Ireland would know what to do in that situation.

wil

The driving test is simply an attempt to officially prove you are safe to learn to drive unaccompanied. After passing your test you a still a learner and will remain so for a considerable few tenthousand miles or more.
You cant drive before you can crawl.

Thie system works quite well in the UK, it is the enforcement and attitude here is the problem. Any sane driver just passed their test in the UK will take some further lessons on the motorways as recommended by their officially qualified driving instructers.

Your rushhour roundabout is an example of just how this poor attitude is so endemic in Ireland.

If you dont know what to do when the person in front brakes, whatever the speed, you shouldnt have a full licence (or a car).

'When local, drive like a yokel':eek:

AudiChris wrote: »

I think the single biggest, black-and-white example of the way the test needs to be revamped is that you're not allowed to drive on motorways while you're a learner, you're not tested on motorway driving, and then once you pass, you're magically able to travel at 120kmph in 2 tons of metal, knowing exactly what to do when someone ahead of you brakes heavily in the dark and the rain.


With regards to the roundabouts, the rules of the road don't change from region to region.
Local knowledge will tell you the left lane jams up at rush hour because of the pedestrian crossing, but if you're in the right lane, it's ok to take the left exit because it's got two lanes anyway... and this happens everywhere, btw.
Stricter training and stricter enforcement would result in more consistent driver behavior and the resulting safety improvements.

peasant

Climate Expert wrote: »

I would hazard a guess that every single driver in Ireland would know what to do in that situation.

Stomp on the brakes, close eyes and wait for the crash?

Wertz

MYOB wrote: »

One of the test requirements for a Cat B licence is that your car *must* be capable of doing 100kmh! If you're on an N-road during the test at all, theres nothing wrong with doing that speed.

Any test centre near a dualler seems to be bringing people on to them, know people who've ended on the N4, N7 and N81, but all at 80kmh sections. Dunno where people could end up on a 100kmh section.

About 600m of my test was conducted on the N52 at a limit of 100kmph reducing down to 60 then 50...in my pre-tests I was told in no uncertain terms to make sure and get up to (but not exceed) the stated limit, for reasons of progress.

+1 to the earlier statement about people in need of a license having had ample time to get one if their driving was up to it...I pissed and moaned at length on here last october when this whole thing blew up, but it was the catalyst that made me get up off my arse and see why my test was taking so long to happen, getting pre-test lessons and studying my teory and passing the test...you'd need to have been living under a rather large rock the past 8 months not to have known this was looming...
I understand that people need the car for whatever, I know I did and do...and I'll be the first to admit that I drove unaccompanied and broke the law, but people have to understand what it is is being done here....our roads are a mess....one of the main reasons for the mess is the amount of unqualified drivers out on them....simple answer; get qualified...prove you can do the test then get out there...

wil

And shouldnt all this be in the learning to drive forum.

I thought Motoring was for drivers.

peasant

wil wrote: »

And shouldnt all this be in the learning to drive forum.

I thought Motoring was for drivers.

Ooooh ...harsh words

The reasons why this is here are twofold:

- we are all drivers, learner or otherwise

- there are one gazillion threads about this on the LTD forum already ...I didn't want to inflict another one on them by moving this one.

Anan1

peasant wrote: »

there are one gazillion threads about this on the LTD forum already ...I didn't want to inflict another one on them by moving this one.

I thought you were supposed to be our daddy?

peasant

rofl

I'm THE daddy !

Seth Brundle

conormob wrote: »

I think this is a disaster for the country if the Government and the Gards enforce the laws we have now instead of making new ones we wouldnt be in this situation this law will also be a diadvantage as their plan is to take all provisional licence holders off the road how are people to get to work and college this has got to be stoped unemployment levels will increase also the R.S.A are a pack of idiots who get driven around everyplace Disaster:mad:

:rolleyes:
The Government and RSA try and enforce basic standards and you feel upset over it? Why? Do you really believe that allowing untrained drivers out alone is a good idea?

cashmni1 wrote: »

I agree, and we should not blame the Guards for the revenue collecting because they are doing what they are told. The Blame has to be laid at the door of the RSA, more importantly, Gay (nobber) Byrne. Somebody get him to quit please.....oh please?

Yeah, its all Gaybo's fault! He is the chariman of the RSA after all and therefore all policies must be made up by him alone! :rolleyes:

DarkJager wrote: »

Not being cocky about it, but I should pass this time as long as I don't get another tester who lives in his own fantasy world...

Its always the testers fault!
Looking in your direction of travel is reall overrated!

knife_fighter wrote: »

What really gets me angry about these new laws is the fact you cant sit a test within six months of getting a permit, they talk about about trying to reduce the number learner drivers on the road,


I myself passed my test after just turing 17 (6 weeks), all they will do is encourage driving alone, with the silly and pointless law

The six months is to ensure that a basic amount of time is spent practicing. It actually makes sense.

E92

Sorry dudes, but I have NO sympathy for anyone who is put off the road from next Monday.

I actually agree with Auntie Gaybo on this one, horror of horrors. If you wanted to get the test you were given 8 months' notice to go and bother to get it. They have sorted out the capacity issue AFAIK so there really is no excuse.

We have the most lax laws in the world on learners. I'm all for L drivers having to be accompanied by a qualified driver, not allowed on Motorways and being made take driving lessons by appropriately qualified people. I don't like when learners are used as scapegoats to cover the Governments' own failings on road safety, such as the ridiculous proposal to have lower speed limits for Learners, because they have to learn to drive at speed and cope with dealing with emergencies when travelling at speed too, or lower blood alcohol limits, because everyone should be made comply with 20 mg/l.

People need to remember that when you are on L plate you are LEARNING to drive.