Best 4x4 for work

Builderfromhell

I'm new to this forum and I'm sure the above topic has been debated before but my situation is perhaps unique.
I will soon need a vehicle that can drive into fields, in all weather, with about 80 gallons of water and other equipment. Some fields may have soft ground (rushes) and others may have field stones strewn about.
I'm looking for something that is very rugged, doesn't need to be comfortable. fuel efficient, easily maintained, and cheap to buy.
I've been looking at older landrover defenders and Land cruisers.
Realise my wish list might be over optimistic.
Advice much appreciated.

AsphaltRisin'

if you'd use a pickup, then a toyota hilux is the job.
if it has to be a covered/enclosed 4x4 then a older landcruiser would be a good bet, or a isuzu trooper ( but only the box shape 2.8td ot the next shape 3.1td), the later 3litre troopers gave trouble but i've never had any problems with the first two versions, or with hiluxes, and a 99 landcruiser, a 92 landcruiser and a 88 landcruiser have done well in my experience

peasant

I've never driven one of these and don't know if they're really as bad as everybody says ...but for breaking its neck in fields it sure is cheap enough:

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Tata/TL/2.0-Single/611159/

Builderfromhell

Thanks guys.
Vehicle does not need to be covered nor does it need passenger seats.
The Tata looks a bargain. Suspiciously cheap maybe.
I'm not in a hurry to buy so I'll keep researching.

L-M

Defender, Defender and more Defender. Older one's will be hard got cheap, and if they are cheap i'd walk away(there'll be a reason:D)

How much is cheap?

Builderfromhell

Was chatting to two Landrover defender owners last night and got a lot of good advice. In brief the following was agreed;
1. Defender is (and always was) a 4x4 designed for work. It's assumed it will be driven off road and through mud etc.
2. Correct tyres are crucial to any off road driving no matter what vehicle.
3. A Toyota Hilux is also a great off roader.
4. Pajeros and a lot of other 4x4s drink a lot.
5. Defenders are easily customised to owners use. Parts are easily attached, replaced etc.
6. Defender's are not cheap but they hold their value. So could be cheap in long term (when selling).
7. Not designed for speed.
8. Not always good for pulling heavy trailers long distances. In my case 3 tonne digger on trailer and 80 gallons of water.
9. Worth importing secondhand from UK.
10. No fancy dashboard or interior. My mate hoses his down on inside afetr returning from fields.

All in all Defender is looking good.

landydef

+1 for all of them points
plus just thought id mention it that i got hold of a "sankey" trailer, these things are class if your going over any sticky terrain with a load
plus they're easy to turn and you hardly even know its on most of the time,
they look must bigger in real life then in most pics of the net
might not be what your after but just an idea

Slig

probably wont take a 3 tonne machine:D
If you are pulling a 3 tonne machine then get a 3 axled trailer!!!
2 axles just wont work and you'll go through springs monthly also look at a long wheel base if your towing. SWB is grand for manouvering but LWB is better for towing. Defender is probably your best option for this work though, youll probably just pull the ar5e out of anything else.

landydef

there actually only single axle but your right it wouldn't take a 3 tonne machine although i have had over two 1 tonne bags of sand in one before.
just my tu'pence worth as it might be something that might come in handy down the road as they as they've great ground clearence
sorry for going off-subject

peasant

Coming to think of it ...with a three tonne payload you will get most 4x4' s to struggle, and a heavy trailer isn't really what you want either.

The ESB have quite a fleet of small trucks (Mercedes, Renault, Iveco, etc) with four wheel drive ...maybe you could get your hands on an old one fairly cheap?

L-M

peasant wrote: »

The ESB have quite a fleet of small trucks (Mercedes, Renault, Iveco, etc) with four wheel drive ...maybe you could get your hands on an old one fairly cheap?

Loads of big ass 130 defenders as well.

peasant

what you really, really want though, is an Unimog




pricey, though and very rare in these parts

L-M

Ha, i've seen a few, aren't they all lefties?

Builderfromhell

I'd love to have a Unimog. I see the ESB use them a lot.

Getting back to original topic. Defender is looking like the machine to get. Could pull trailer with digger with my Isuzu NPR.
I'm also keen on the Toyota Hilux. Good enough for Militia all over the world then good enough for me.

I'll see what kind of bargains come my way.

L-M

Builderfromhell wrote: »

Defender is looking like the machine to get.
I'll see what kind of bargains come my way.

Any budget?

MrFoxman360

Go for a japanese 4x4 its hard to go wrong, but as mentioned stay away from a 3L trooper, get the 3.1. If fuel consumption is an issue Pajero's might not be so good either.

A Hilux would be a good choice, but the 2.4 non turbo struggles with a 3 ton digger, I know, ive tried it! They are tough and rugged and the reliability factor is also good, but beware, many will have suffered a hard life, and although still going well may require alot of money to get them through a DOE.

Defenders?, I just dont like them, the cab I find is uncomfortably small, the only reason the key is on the left of the steering coloum is cos you can't get your hand in the right side when the door is closed. Being exposed to the mechanical side of things, I honestly think the build quaility is not the best, although they would be a rugged vehicle.

If your going to be towing heavy weight, I find a LWB is best, my LWB pajero, will happily pull heavy trailers smoothly with no bouncing, but it will depend on the trailer. Get a tri axel, for a smooth ride on the road, although pulling narrow tires through a wet field might present a new set of problems. Some people will say such a jeep is better than another for pulling, but in my experience power is the only difference between them. If you know how to tow trailers properly you shouldn't be wearing out clutch's and overheating engines, no matter what make it is. Bigger engine is obviously faster when towing heavy weight, but my 2.5 pajero can manage 3.5 tons when required, although it is slow.

Most Jap 4x4s have decent off road ability, so a good set of mud tires and you'll be laughing.

Builderfromhell

Budget is up to 10,000.

Good points from last poster. I do find the Landrover cab a bit cramped.
I watched an amusing Utube video from Top Gear about a Hilux. I'll look it up and post it.

Some older Hiluxes are cheap enough. But as you say they could be on their last legs. A Hilux may not hold it's value as well as a Landrover Defender. So at the moment it's a toss up between the two. WIll probably depend on what Bargains come up.

Someone recommended a Mazda L200 (I think). Will check on those.

Here's the link to Hilux video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNUKptyKdMM

MrFoxman360

The Hilux would be the better choice, though a Mazda b2500 or the older style navara also represent good value.

Even though these might have seen alot of hard work, they will still be reliable. Many old Hilux's aren't on there last legs when they are taken off the road, its just costing alot to get through the DOE test, but they still have alot of life left in them.

If its a toss up between a defender and a Hilux, go for the latter. Its way better in terms of space, reliability, build quality, and is recognised all over the world as a rugged workhorse. My brothers one has nearly 250,000 miles on it and its still working every day.

Mahatma coat

do ye get many of these in Ireland?


far and away the best work ute I've had has been one of these, have a few hiluxes and a few Patrols, even have a Daihatsu Rocky which is fun, but Cruiser is king.

L-M

What about a Td5 Disco comm???

Lambdrover

Builderfromhell wrote: »

Budget is up to 10,000.

Good points from last poster. I do find the Landrover cab a bit cramped.
I watched an amusing Utube video from Top Gear about a Hilux. I'll look it up and post it.

Some older Hiluxes are cheap enough. But as you say they could be on their last legs. A Hilux may not hold it's value as well as a Landrover Defender. So at the moment it's a toss up between the two. WIll probably depend on what Bargains come up.

Someone recommended a Mazda L200 (I think). Will check on those.

Here's the link to Hilux video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNUKptyKdMM

Ask yourself a question....Why are there so many magazines and club devoted purely to Land Rovers? You have already answered this in one of your previous comments.....'they are easily customised'. But that's not the only reason, parts are cheap and readily available both here and the UK.

The rated towing capacity of the Defender is 3.5tonnes which is probably slightly light of your digger and trailer requirement. However if you want a bigger capacity you are into small lorry territory as this is the max for 'car/4x4' type vehicles. i know lads that have towed MUCH more behind Land Rovers. Off road nothing will beat a Defender with a good set of tyres. When 4x4 Magazine did a 'best 4x4' a couple of years ago a Jeep Cherokee won it but on mud tyres. The Discovery in the test was on road tyres, but the benchmark vehicle against which they were all measure was a Defender 90 and non got close to it.

Sure they aren't the most comfortable but there are ways of improving on that with bulkhead removal kits and raised seat rails which will give more legroom and seat back adjustment.

Also the fact that they hold their value so well means that the running costs are reduced in the long run. With a 10,000 euro budget you will find a decent Defender that will last for donkeys years if looked after.

Oh yeah, and other Defender drivers will wave to you .

oflynno

hmm
there's a crowd called baileys in bansha,tipperary that do alot of ex esb stuff.they might find your unimog

i have a hilux at the moment and they are the job but go for 2.4td or one with the 3.0ltd from a surf,great power

as stated before stay away from the 3.ol trooper 99-00 unless you have documented proof that the turbo and head have been recalled and changed

Slig

defender is like a tractor, they are uncomfortable but they are the best for what you want. If you didnt need to drag the water tank into the field then you could probably get away with most other 4x4s but if you need to winch out of places etc. then you need something without flashy bodywork:D
What about putting wheels on the water tank and dragging it behind the digger up the fields. I assume that you'll be tracking from the road and wont be taking the low loader into the field anyway so it might save you 2 trips.
I just dig the holes so I dont worry about that end

gordon_gekko

i recently changed a defender for a landcruiser , a few things about defenders , there extremly rugged , the chassis is built like a tank , they will handle terrain which other 4wd,s wont , theyve superb ground clearance

there also not that reliable mechanically , the brakes are quite poor ,theyre low geared which is great if your toeing but try pulling of in 1st at traffic lights with any kind of speed , the lock is awful , you need an acre to turn , there uncomfortable and if you go over 55 mph , you will end up with haemohroids
there very trendy and long term ( not short term though ) they will hold there value
i would much perfer the landcruiser and i think they are perfectly adequate unless your rough ridding every other day

s14driftking

id go for a fast track or the unimog if i were u both will pll wat u want to wit ease and r reliable they might be a bit harder on juice but ull be running green diesel in them so works out about even plus both r quick enough on the road

peasant

no txt spk pleeeeze !

S.I.R

isuzu trooper.... Actually built to last.... quite common for them to pass 500k without an issue.

gordon_gekko

s14driftking wrote: »

id go for a fast track or the unimog if i were u both will pll wat u want to wit ease and r reliable they might be a bit harder on juice but ull be running green diesel in them so works out about even plus both r quick enough on the road

a fastrack is a tractor made by jcb ,

Slig

gordon_gekko wrote: »

a fastrack is a tractor made by jcb ,

with 2 seats, suspension and a 50Kph gearbox.:D
you wont have much drive way left if you park outside the house.
If you are going down that route you might as well get a back actor for the back of it and rule out the digger and you could probably mount the tank behind the cab. This will allow you to travel without a trailer at all

Builderfromhell

Just to keep those interested up to date.
Friend of mine's brother is selling a Jeep Cherokee 2.5 Turbo diesel for €3,500. Have not seen it yet but I know it's had an engine from a scrap yard put in it recently. That normally costs about 1,500 labour alone. He's a mechanic so did it himself. Will take it for a few days or w/end to see how it goes. Don't know year or mileage yet. Taxed commercial. Have decided to use my Isuzu NPR to pull digger and use Jeep to go into fields with water in special trailer.

landydef

sounds to me like a motor thats given someone trouble and now he just wants rid of it,ive been in that situation with a pajero before
just make sure your not buying someone elses problems
in terms of decent off road capability i'd aim for a defender or a hilux or even a g-wagon if you come across one, although parts are very expensive for the g-wagon

Slig

Jeep cherokee, they are thirsty, rough, uncomfortable and unreliable, and thats their good points.:D
To save 2 runs (digger on truck then jeep with trailer) what about fitting a towbar to the truck and using a quad to pull it up the fields.

Lambdrover

Don't even think about the Jeep if it's the engine with individual heads. More trouble than they are worth and the parts will cost a fortune.

aravan

I'm not sure if there is a 4x4 on the market that will fit the bill.
80 Gallons of water will weigh over 3.6 T. Ther trailer will have to weigh something also.
I think the highest towing capacity on Defender/Discovery/ Patrol GR / Jeep Grand Cherokee is 3.5 T including the weight of the trailer.
Correct me if i'm wrong.

KELTICKNIGHTT

i got the curvy cherokee in commerical,good on fuel compare to friends 4x4s,didnt bother with square cherokee because of one thing the head in four parts compared to one

Builderfromhell

I'm now convinced a 2nd hand Landrover defender 110 TDi is the best vehicle for my work. Maybe get a trailer water tank.
Alternatively the attached link shows a vehicle that might be safe to leave parked outside my apartment in City Centre at weekends.
http://www.witham-sv.com/infopage.php?ID=1301&Overide=1

Slig

Builderfromhell wrote: »

I'm now convinced a 2nd hand Landrover defender 110 TDi is the best vehicle for my work. Maybe get a trailer water tank.
Alternatively the attached link shows a vehicle that might be safe to leave parked outside my apartment in City Centre at weekends.
http://www.witham-sv.com/infopage.php?ID=1301&Overide=1

Jesus!!!:eek:
That would nearly be big enough to drop the kids off at school

cooper38

I happen to know someone with a 2003 nissan navara in great nick selling at a knock down price as he's migrating.

If youre interested pm me

oflynno

aravan wrote: »

I'm not sure if there is a 4x4 on the market that will fit the bill.
80 Gallons of water will weigh over 3.6 T. Ther trailer will have to weigh something also.
I think the highest towing capacity on Defender/Discovery/ Patrol GR / Jeep Grand Cherokee is 3.5 T including the weight of the trailer.
Correct me if i'm wrong.

check out the toyota landcruiser amazon
they have the highest towing capacity on the market
they are availible in commercial and if you find a passenger one between 1992 and 1996 let me know,i want one

Bearcat

a cheap amazon...I swear by them...that 4.2 diesel is a pure animal provided she has been serviced.

The unimog if your farting around fields.....pal of mine bought one on ebay.....its basic but by jazuz does it do the biz.

see the last bit of this clip. this is the baby you need.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KooyYDbw6G4

aravan

oflynno wrote: »

check out the toyota landcruiser amazon
they have the highest towing capacity on the market
they are availible in commercial and if you find a passenger one between 1992 and 1996 let me know,i want one

I have to apologise about my calculation of 80 gallons of water. I was a decimal place out meaning it weighs only 360 KG.

The Toyota VX is the business ok. Their towing capacity is 3.5T also.

oflynno

i thought that about the water

you should have no fear towing what you want anyway
the bigger the vehicle the more it can tow
depending on your budget check out ebay in england for the ford f150 or f250
or the dodge ram ram 1500 or 2500.they can tow houses

me personally when i win the lotto i'll have to go ford f-350

until then,black smoke

Slidey

jj188 wrote: »

have 04 toyota hilux single,but need canopy ie ivor williams or fiberglass,new ones mad money so looking for second hand one,any one no where to start

Welcome to boards jji88.

EDIT: post moved to new thread