Fifa rules in favour of N.I

estebancambias

From that BBC thing:

Fifa have come down on the side of NI/IFA in the player dispute.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/article3757651.ece

In a nutshell, you are not guaranteed by right of your nationality to play for the nation which recognises you as citizen.

Quite simply put, this is a massive breach of our individual fundamental human rights. How dare FIFA tell me that my son and his descendants have no right to play for our country?

We are Irish, born on the island of Ireland. We have absolutely no interest in representing NI whatsoever. My father was a professional footballer, born in the North and never represented NI at any level [even when he was asked].

It is not for a mere Football Association [FIFA] to decide a persons nationality. That is a matter between the nation state and the individual.


So what, I and my son are not Irishmen because FIFA tells me thats the way it is?

Does your man Blatter actually think this will pass? LOL.

Why should someone have to represent a territory created due to colonialism?

Why should a player not get the chance to play for the Irish national team?

monkey9

This won't hold up. I know plenty of people up North who consider themselves Irish and have the passport and if they were footballers, they'd have to play for the North?? They just wouldn't. This whole thing is a nonsense

grahamo

estebancambias wrote: »

From that BBC thing:




Does your man Blatter actually think this will pass? LOL.

Why should someone have to represent a territory created due to colonialism?

Why should a player not get the chance to play for the Irish national team?

Does this mean Darren Gibson won't be allowed play for us!

monkey9

I'd imagine it's from now on. He's already played a competitive match

A Dub in Glasgo

monkey9 wrote: »

This won't hold up. I know plenty of people up North who consider themselves Irish

That is because they are Irish

FIFA are idiots

Death or Glory

Blatter has too much time on his hands

Nalz

Death or Glory wrote: »

Blatter has too much time on his hands

+1. He's a joke. He's made some comments in the past... that one about women soccer players and the shorts, ffs ya havta laugh.

leninbenjamin

Death or Glory wrote: »

Blatter has too much time on his hands

lol, sums it up perfectly.

Mr.Nice Guy

Yes this ruling is a complete disgrace. You can be given Irish citizenship but you can't represent the State which gave you citizenship. Utter bollocks.

OhNoYouDidn't

Hoe is Blatter the idiot here, It was the IFA who took this case? And why start this thread 9 months later?

Fact is that FIFA changed the rules of eligibility in the wake of the Quatari Brazilian nonsense and Darren Gibson technically isn't eligible for us as citizenship alone is not enough.

The question is will FIFA make an exception for the unique Irish situation, as Gibson isn't eligible for the nordies, but with a home nation refusing to agree to this, hard to see how.

monkey9

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Hoe is Blatter the idiot here, It was the IFA who took this case? And why start this thread 9 months later?

Fact is that FIFA changed the rules of eligibility in the wake of the Quatari Brazilian nonsense and Darren Gibson technically isn't eligible for us as citizenship alone is not enough.

The question is will FIFA make an exception for the unique Irish situation, as Gibson isn't eligible for the nordies, but with a home nation refusing to agree to this, hard to see how.

It was started nine months later because who would have thought it would become an issue by FIFA actually going along with this!!!

Guy:Incognito

estebancambias wrote: »

Why should someone have to represent a territory created due to colonialism?

Whereas all the countries of the world were decided when god dropped a map down on us.

Fifas rules are fairly clear,afair you have to have lived in the country for a certain time and/or have a family connection(parent/grandparent) Dont see why it should be any different because it suits us.


If Keane, McGrath, Brady etc had decided they wanted to play for the north thered have been whole forums dedicated to whinging about them.

OhNoYouDidn't

monkey9 wrote: »

It was started nine months later because who would have though it would become an issue by FIFA actually going along with this!!!

Going along with what?

One member state did something, another appealed it and in the letter of the law the original action was against the rules.

It was clear from day one we were on shakey ground with Gibson. Morally, we of course have the higher ground, but by any reading of the rules we were on ropey territory.

This isn't Blatter sitting in a bunker stroking a cat, it is the IFA fighting their corner and winning.

estebancambias

Stekelly wrote: »

Whereas all the countries of the world were decided when god dropped a map down on us.

Fifas rules are fairly clear,afair you have to have lived in the country for a certain time and/or have a family connection(parent/grandparent) Dont see why it should be any different because it suits us.


If Keane, McGrath, Brady etc had decided they wanted to play for the north thered have been whole forums dedicated to whinging about them.

:rolleyes:

Keane, McGrath or Brady could not have played for Northern Ireland, because being born in the Republic they wouldn't have British passport.

Darron Gibson has an Irish passport, and so do 47% of the community in Northern Ireland.

Oh and we are not the only country who have this. Croatia do as well.

OhNoYouDidn't

estebancambias wrote: »

Darron Gibson has an Irish passport, and so do 47% of the community in Northern Ireland.

Oh and we are not the only country who have this. Croatia do as well.

thank you for stating the obvious.

but having a passport is not enough anymore. there was abuse of the system, by us to an extent come to think of it, and know you need a genuine, tangible affinity to your country, not just citizenship. Nationalists in the 6 counties fell into the cracks. there should be an exception made, but the IFA were right. Darren Gibson is not eligible for the FAI XI as the rules stand.

Thanx 4 The Fish

estebancambias wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Keane, McGrath or Brady could not have played for Northern Ireland, because being born in the Republic they wouldn't have British passport.

:rolleyes:
Really ??

Paul McGrath (born December 4, 1959 in Ealing, London, England). I would imagine that a british passport would not be too hard to come by for him.

ArmaniJeanss

A bit harsh to blame Blatter - it's hard to see how you could frame a rule to please everyone and maintain the integrity of the game at the same time.

Anyone know how its handled in the Balkans, e.g., if someone born in one of the strongly Serb-orientated areas of Bosnia wants to play for Serbia, then what happens?

Guy:Incognito

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Anyone know how its handled in the Balkans, e.g., if someone born in one of the strongly Serb-orientated areas of Bosnia wants to play for Serbia, then what happens?

I think they were given a choice at the time of the break up but now its where your from. There is probably stil plenty of crossover with family though meaning plenty of players are eligable through the granny rule.

estebancambias

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

:rolleyes:
Really ??

Paul McGrath (born December 4, 1959 in Ealing, London, England). I would imagine that a british passport would not be too hard to come by for him.

Well done there Thanx 4 The Fish, you completely ripped up the point I was trying to make.:rolleyes:

estebancambias

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

thank you for stating the obvious.

but having a passport is not enough anymore. there was abuse of the system, by us to an extent come to think of it, and know you need a genuine, tangible affinity to your country, not just citizenship. Nationalists in the 6 counties fell into the cracks. there should be an exception made, but the IFA were right. Darren Gibson is not eligible for the FAI XI as the rules stand.

So Patrick Viera/ Florent Malouda/ Johnathon Zebina/ Makelele/Boumsong/ Evra are not eligible for the FFA XI?

Guy:Incognito

estebancambias wrote: »

So Patrick Viera/ Florent Malouda/ Johnathon Zebina/ Makelele are not eligible for the FFA XI?

Vieira lived in France from the age of 8.

Zebina was born in Paris.

Makalele moved to France aged 4.

OhNoYouDidn't

estebancambias wrote: »

So Patrick Viera/ Florent Malouda/ Johnathon Zebina/ Makelele/Boumsong/ Evra are not eligible for the FFA XI?

They all lived in France. So yes they would be.

estebancambias

Stekelly wrote: »

Vieira lived in France from the age of 8.

Zebina was born in Paris

Darron Gibson lived in Ireland since he was born.

Oh and just checked that up, I was sure he was from Monsterat(or somewhere like that) but yeah it says wikipedia.

Guy:Incognito

estebancambias wrote: »

Darron Gibson lived in Ireland since he was born.

Oh and just checked that up, I was sure he was from Monsterat(or somewhere like that) but yeah it says wikipedia.

Gibson has never lived in the country he wants to play for.

Mr.Nice Guy

OhNoYouDidn't wrote:

there was abuse of the system, by us to an extent come to think of it

Not just by us. People conveniently forget the fact that players from the south turned out for NI's team in the past. They didn't seem to have a problem back then. Johnny Carey, born in Dublin, turned out for the North's team and it seems the IFA were willing to ignore this top class player's place of birth. I'm sure there were many others too. There was a player mentioned in Liam Brady's Dalymount Park documentary who turned out for both teams. His name escapes me.

It pisses me off to hear the IFA's bitching given their own history.

Guy:Incognito

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Not just by us. People conveniently forget the fact that players from the south turned out for NI's team in the past. They didn't seem to have a problem back then. Johnny Carey, born in Dublin, turned out for the North's team and it seems the IFA were willing to ignore this top class player's place of birth. I'm sure there were many others too. There was a player mentioned in Liam Brady's Dalymount Park documentary who turned out for both teams. His name escapes me.

It pisses me off to hear the IFA's bitching given their own history.

The rules have been tweaked plenty of times over the years so what happened a couple of generations ago isnt really relevant.

OhNoYouDidn't

estebancambias wrote: »

Darron Gibson lived in Ireland since he was born. .

He has lived in England for about 5 years...

What you are asking for is FIFA to take a side on the Irish national question. Not going to happen.

estebancambias

I will be shocked if future players born in one of the six counties who want to play for the Republic are not allowed to do so.

OhNoYouDidn't

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Not just by us. People conveniently forget the fact that players from the south turned out for NI's team in the past. They didn't seem to have a problem back then. Johnny Carey, born in Dublin, turned out for the North's team and it seems the IFA were willing to ignore this top class player's place of birth. I'm sure there were many others too. There was a player mentioned in Liam Brady's Dalymount Park documentary who turned out for both teams. His name escapes me.

It pisses me off to hear the IFA's bitching given their own history.

I'm not disputing that, and whats even worse is DG isn't eligible for them either, but the rules are on their side.

OhNoYouDidn't

estebancambias wrote: »

I will be shocked if future players born in one of the six counties who want to play for the Republic are not allowed to do so.

do you live in a cave?

they are not allowed at the moment.

Thanx 4 The Fish

estebancambias wrote: »

Well done there Thanx 4 The Fish, you completely ripped up the point I was trying to make.:rolleyes:

No problem esteban, shame that such a small thing as a fact would completely ruin your point :rolleyes:

estebancambias

Yes they are. Both Darron Gibson and Marc Wilson play for the Republic despite being born in NI.

Fratton Fred

Stekelly wrote: »

Gibson has never lived in the country he wants to play for.

First time Owen Hargreaves came to England was for an England training session.

There has to be some fairly rigid rules put in place, to simply say someone qualifies for a passport is no certainty (Jesus, FF dish out Irish passports to all and sundry, Berite would have dishd them out to Kaka, Ronaldinho and anyone else he could persuade to play for Ireland) and to say that it is a nation created by colonialism, well, that may put the whole of south America (and North for that matter, although not as important football wise), Africa and large chunks of the far east into question.

as much as this pains me to say, Blatter may be right (ouch).

OhNoYouDidn't

estebancambias wrote: »

Yes they are. Both Darron Gibson and Marc Wilson play for the Republic despite being born in NI.

Lets start this from scratch.

The IFA and FAI had a gentlemans agreement not to 'poach' across the border. Under Kerrs youth system we 'broke' the rules and the IFA made it clear if anyone played for the senior side that they would appeal it. Which they did.

What bit of this confuses you?

OhNoYouDidn't

Fratton Fred wrote: »

First time Owen Hargreaves came to England was for an England training session.

There has to be some fairly rigid rules put in place, to simply say someone qualifies for a passport is no certainty (Jesus, FF dish out Irish passports to all and sundry, Berite would have dishd them out to Kaka, Ronaldinho and anyone else he could persuade to play for Ireland) and to say that it is a nation created by colonialism, well, that may put the whole of south America (and North for that matter, although not as important football wise), Africa and large chunks of the far east into question.

as much as this pains me to say, Blatter may be right (ouch).

Which is exactly what Quatar did hence the rule change.

Guy:Incognito

Fratton Fred wrote: »

First time Owen Hargreaves came to England was for an England training session..

Yes but he qualified by others means (family) Gibson doesnt which is the whole point. You either need the proper family connections or to have lived in the country for a certain time period (cudicini, almunia)

estebancambias

I'm sorry but can you not see how completely stupid that is?


Almunia can play for the English national team because he has lived in the country for a certain amount of time. Now he has no affiliation with the county other than that Arsenal happened to sign him 5 seasons ago.

Gibson on the other hand obviously feels and is Irish, yet because of boundaries drawn up by some civil servant he is unable to play for the Irsih team.

Thanx 4 The Fish

How old is his family ? Could he qualify under the granny rule ?

estebancambias

T4TF: Gibson will be able to play anyway cause' he has one cap. But neither of his parents or grandparents were born in any other of the 26 counties.

A Dub in Glasgo

FIFA & UEFA are a mess anyway as the UK has 4 entries into all their competitions and yet none of them are (independent) countries!

Their whole ethos is a football association rather than nationality, residency or citizenship. Inadvertently or not, they have decided to take a stance on the Irish national question.

Thanx 4 The Fish

estebancambias wrote: »

T4TF: Gibson will be able to play anyway cause' he has one cap. But neither of his parents or grandparents were born in any other of the 26 counties.

ah yes, but what I am getting at is that if his grandparents were old enough then they could have been around in a united Ireland

Granted they would have to have been pretty old.

Bubs101

estebancambias wrote: »

T4TF: Gibson will be able to play anyway cause' he has one cap. But neither of his parents or grandparents were born in any other of the 26 counties.

In complete fairness then he should be playing for Norn Iron. It's utterly unfair on them if we can rob any one of their players because of a political issue which has nothing to do with football. You people saying that the only reason Gibson is in this mess is because some Civil servant drew a boundary are wrong, it's because to appease nationalists the British government let them have Irish passports. Northern Ireland has been seperate now for a good 80 years. We can't just claim there people as our own

estebancambias

He doesn't want to play for them. Its not like we poached him. He has always supported the Republic of Ireland team. If this was the case we would have poached some of their players who could increase our national pool like Healy, Davis and Hughes. But no they play for Northern Ireland.


The reason Alex Bruce plays for us is because one of his grandparents is from Bangor in Northern Ireland.

Pigman II

estebancambias wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Keane, McGrath or Brady could not have played for Northern Ireland, because being born in the Republic they wouldn't have British passport.

As has been pointed out McGrath was born in England. Little known fact but Liam Brady was eligible to play for England.

As for TheTraitor, well I doubt he'd ever play for any country where he didn't have the racial-highground and/or ability to spout comments such as "you're not even [nationality I represent], you [nationality I don't represent] c***."

OPENROAD

Pigman II wrote: »

As has been pointed out McGrath was born in London. Little known fact but Liam Brady was eligible to play for England.

As for TheTraitor, well I doubt he'd ever play for any country where he didn't have the racial-highground and/or ability to spout comments such as "you're not even [nationality I represent], you [nationality I don't represent] c***."

Who is the traitor?

Guy:Incognito

OPENROAD wrote: »

Who is the traitor?

Pigman II

Syke

The irony of all this is that catholic players don't want to play for the North because of the sectarianism and abuse they get when they do. Catholic fans are singled out in supporters clubs and we've seen what happened to Neil Lennon.

Given the behavior of the supporters, the supporters associations and the shameful blind eye that the IFA have turned to all this, many Northern Irish catholics (at least the ones I know) have no connection or empathy for the Northern Irish team.

The IFA compound this travesty by ignoring the root of their problem and giving the players a like it or lump it option to international football.

As long as things remain the way they are now, I'm behind the FAI on this all the way.

Bubs101

estebancambias wrote: »

He doesn't want to play for them. Its not like we poached him. He has always supported the Republic of Ireland team. If this was the case we would have poached some of their players who could increase our national pool like Healy, Davis and Hughes. But no they play for Northern Ireland.


The reason Alex Bruce plays for us is because one of his grandparents is from Bangor in Northern Ireland.

The reason Alex Bruce plays for us is that he is far too crap for England. Same with Healy, too bad for Ireland. Hughes and Davis would have gotten around 5 caps each

estebancambias

First of all Bubs, I agree. None of them are good enough for the Irish team.


But what I mean about Bruce is, as far as I'm aware none of his grandparents come from south of Ireland.

He is able to play for Ireland for the same reason Gibson is, only in a more indirect way.

Mr.Nice Guy

estebancambias wrote: »

First of all Bubs, I agree. None of them are good enough for the Irish team.


But what I mean about Bruce is, as far as I'm aware none of his grandparents come from south of Ireland.

He is able to play for Ireland for the same reason Gibson is, only in a more indirect way.

I think Sean Scannell's dad is from County Armagh too.

Cionád

Simple solution, merge them into one Ireland football team.