Fifa rules in favour of N.I

grahamo

As far as I know people born in the North of Ireland up to the 1940's (I think) were automatically entitled to an Irish passport if they wanted one. Wouldn't this give players like Gibson, Bruce, Healy etc. the "family connection" they need to qualify for the Republic?

OhNoYouDidn't

grahamo wrote: »

As far as I know people born in the North of Ireland up to the 1940's (I think) were automatically entitled to an Irish passport if they wanted one. Wouldn't this give players like Gibson, Bruce, Healy etc. the "family connection" they need to qualify for the Republic?

47 when Ireland became a Republic. My understanding is in Gibsons case there are no relatives born on the island prior to that date.

The FAI are between a rock and a hard place. They can only strike a deal if the IFA agree to one, which they won't. So now it will be up to individual players to appeal the IFA appealing in future.

estebancambias

grahamo wrote: »

As far as I know people born in the North of Ireland up to the 1940's (I think) were automatically entitled to an Irish passport if they wanted one. Wouldn't this give players like Gibson, Bruce, Healy etc. the "family connection" they need to qualify for the Republic?

But Gibson actually has a passport. He is entitled to an Irish passport because of the Good Friday Agreement.

OhNoYouDidn't

estebancambias wrote: »

But Gibson actually has a passport. He is entitled to an Irish passport because of the Good Friday Agreement.

For the purposes of this discussion, so what?

leninbenjamin

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

For the purposes of this discussion, so what?

it's sounds like the argument that a passport prior to 1947 will suffice, but a passport from the good friday wont? if that's true; what's the difference?

DerekD Goldfish

I agree with Fifa
the rules are in place for a reason
they cant go making exceptions to the rule as they would be inundated with cases from other country's who wanted to be exempt from the rules also.
Just because gibson feels irish doesn't mean he should automatically be able to play for us. While he will continue to do so I understand the IFA wanting to put a stop to us poaching players they have a small enogh population base to chose from as it is without some of thier brightest prospects being "stolen"
As for Gibson and others not wanted to represent the north well thats their problem if they dont want to represent the country they were born in, grew up in and all their family were from its not Fifa or the IFA fault.

OhNoYouDidn't

leninbenjamin wrote: »

it's sounds like the argument that a passport prior to 1947 will suffice, but a passport from the good friday wont? if that's true; what's the difference?

No, he has a passport, thats not in dispute. The issue is the additional criteria he needs.

- Lived in the 26 counties for 5 years.
- Have a parent or grandparent who was born in the 26 counties
- Have a spouse who is born in the 26 counties.

Anyone born in the north prior to 47 is classed as being born in the 26 counties for some legal reasons I'm not sure of. DG does not have that either.

A Dub in Glasgo

DerekD Goldfish wrote: »

I agree with Fifa
the rules are in place for a reason
they cant go making exceptions to the rule as they would be inundated with cases from other country's who wanted to be exempt from the rules also.
Just because gibson feels irish doesn't mean he should automatically be able to play for us. While he will continue to do so I understand the IFA wanting to put a stop to us poaching players they have a small enogh population base to chose from as it is without some of thier brightest prospects being "stolen"
As for Gibson and others not wanted to represent the north well thats their problem if they dont want to represent the country they were born in, grew up in and all their family were from its not Fifa or the IFA fault.

Feels Irish? He is Irish!! You are talking about the RoI team representing the Irish Nation which it does not. The RoI team represents the football association in the RoI not the Irish Nation.

JimiTime

DerekD Goldfish wrote: »

I agree with Fifa. the rules are in place for a reason
they cant go making exceptions to the rule as they would be inundated with cases from other country's who wanted to be exempt from the rules also.

I don't. If they are inundated, then let them deal with each case submitted. I'm sure they'd have the resources. Exceptions 'have' to be made, not should be made.

Just because gibson feels irish doesn't mean he should automatically be able to play for us. While he will continue to do so I understand the IFA wanting to put a stop to us poaching players they have a small enogh population base to chose from as it is without some of thier brightest prospects being "stolen"

What if a close personal friend or family member was killed on bloody sunday, yet they have to stand to 'god save the queen', before every international match. Balderdash. Ireland is an exceptional scenario. Neil Lennon had to retire from international football because of the horrid sectarian attitude of alot of NI fans. The good friday agreements means that one can be a citizen of the republic, FIFA has no right to infringe on that right! Even if it opens up a can of worms elsewhere, they just have to deal with it.

Believe it or not, I'm not even nationalistic, I just find that infringing on a right that people have fought hard (politically) for is wrong. Ireland has the history etc. Quatar were obviously just trying to get some Brazillians playing football for them.

As for Gibson and others not wanted to represent the north well thats their problem if they dont want to represent the country they were born in, grew up in and all their family were from its not Fifa or the IFA fault.

And if they decide to join Celtic will be threatened with death, will be berated by their own fans, and made feel like a stranger in his own country. Whether you like it or not, people from the north of Ireland are entitled to citizenship of the republic. It is wholly FIFA and the IFA's fault if they don't recognise this right.

DerekD Goldfish

Feels Irish? He is Irish!! You are talking about the RoI team representing the Irish Nation which it does not. The RoI team represents the football association in the RoI not the Irish Nation

There is no such thing as "The Irish Nation" we are not one unified entity and until such time as we are each association will represent the seperare area over which it presides.
Unless players meet the eligibilty criteria set down by Fifa they shoudnt be allowed represent the country.
There is and IMO shouldnt be an acception to this

leninbenjamin

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Anyone born in the north prior to 47 is classed as being born in the 26 counties for some legal reasons I'm not sure of.

yeah, the other bit i get. i was just wondering if you knew why this was the case.

cournioni

What league do Derry City FC play in? The League of Ireland. Gibson is from Derry. Hypocrisy?? I think so...

FIFA should stop making these silly rules up as they go along.

DerekD Goldfish

JimiTime wrote: »

I don't. If they are inundated, then let them deal with each case submitted. I'm sure they'd have the resources. Exceptions 'have' to be made, not should be made.


What if a close personal friend or family member was killed on bloody sunday, yet they have to stand to 'god save the queen', before every international match. Balderdash. Ireland is an exceptional scenario. Neil Lennon had to retire from international football because of the horrid sectarian attitude of alot of NI fans. The good friday agreements means that one can be a citizen of the republic, FIFA has no right to infringe on that right! Even if it opens up a can of worms elsewhere, they just have to deal with it.

Believe it or not, I'm not even nationalistic, I just find that infringing on a right that people have fought hard (politically) for is wrong. Ireland has the history etc. Quatar were obviously just trying to get some Brazillians playing football for them.


And if they decide to join Celtic will be threatened with death, will be berated by their own fans, and made feel like a stranger in his own country. Whether you like it or not, people from the north of Ireland are entitled to citizenship of the republic. It is wholly FIFA and the IFA's fault if they don't recognise this right.

Did the queen shoot dead protesters on Bloddy Sunday?

I dispise all monarchy if I was born in the UK I would refuse to sign praise to any monarch or accept thier existence should I then be allowed to represent Italy instead?

DerekD Goldfish

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

What league do Derry City FC play in? The League of Ireland. Gibson is from Derry. Hypocrisy?? I think so...

FIFA should stop making these silly rules up as they go along.

Cardiff play in England should all welsh cardiff players be allowed play for england?

A Dub in Glasgo

DerekD Goldfish wrote: »

There is no such thing as "The Irish Nation" we are not one unified entity and until such time as we are each association will represent the seperare area over which it presides.
Unless players meet the eligibilty criteria set down by Fifa they shoudnt be allowed represent the country.
There is and IMO shouldnt be an acception to this

You fail to see the Irish Nation as including anyone who is not connected (FIFA wise) to the RoI. The fact of the matter is DG is as Irish as the next Irishman. It is not a question of 'just because he feels Irish'.

FIFA is allowing players to represent the football association not the country as some football associations do not represent independent countries

JimiTime

DerekD Goldfish wrote: »

Did the queen shoot dead protesters on Bloddy Sunday?

The Queen is symbolic of British imperialism, and to those that have felt oppressed by her nation, representing her may be a very bitter pill. It was just a small example anyway.

I dispise all monarchy if I was born in the UK I would refuse to sign praise to any monarch or accept thier existence should I then be allowed to represent Italy instead?

Have you Italian citizenship?

JimiTime

DerekD Goldfish wrote: »

Cardiff play in England should all welsh cardiff players be allowed play for england?

If they are english citizens, then yes, of course they should.

cournioni

DerekD Goldfish wrote: »

Cardiff play in England should all welsh cardiff players be allowed play for england?

What does it say on their passport?

I made the Derry City point to show how hypocritical FIFA's rules are. How is it that Derry City are allowed to play in an RoI league, yet a player from Derry isn't allowed to play for the RoI? Surely if they're going to make rules they should make them across the board...

Nationalist players from the North should be allowed to have a choice of who they play for (providing that they have the passport), not the team, IMO.

ArmaniJeanss

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

What does it say on their passport?

I made the Derry City point to show how hypocritical FIFA's rules are. How is it that Derry City are allowed to play in an RoI league, yet a player from Derry isn't allowed to play for the RoI? Surely if they're going to make rules they should make them across the board...

UEFA and FIFA went out of their way to allow Derry City play in the LOI, for example they are the only club in Europe to be allowed play UEFA games without police presence. Its a bit harsh to throw it back in their face as an example of hypocrisy.

OhNoYouDidn't

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

I made the Derry City point to show how hypocritical FIFA's rules are. How is it that Derry City are allowed to play in an RoI league, yet a player from Derry isn't allowed to play for the RoI? Surely if they're going to make rules they should make them across the board....

But they are enforcing the rule across the board, thats the problem. There was legitimate reasons for FIFA to tighten the rules after the Quatari debacle.

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

Nationalist players from the North should be allowed to have a choice of who they play for (providing that they have the passport), not the team, IMO.

I don't think anyone is disputing that, but from FIFA's point of view, the IFA counter argument must be taken into account. People are asking Blatter and the FIFA lawyers to make a call on the national question. Not going to happen.

What will happen is that the FAI will pick players, the IFA will appeal and win and then the player will appeal that on the basis that he doenst have a UK passport so is ineligible for the 6 and win. The FAI get their players, the IFA get to look like they have stood up for themselves and everyone is a winner.

cournioni

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

UEFA and FIFA went out of their way to allow Derry City play in the LOI, for example they are the only club in Europe to be allowed play UEFA games without police presence. Its a bit harsh to throw it back in their face as an example of hypocrisy.

If they go out of their way to allow Derry into the LOI why shouldn't they allow Derry born players to play for the Republic if they have Irish passports?

I'm not having a go at Derry City here, I'm having a go at FIFA.

ArmaniJeanss

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

If they go out of their way to allow Derry into the LOI why shouldn't they allow Derry born players to play for the Republic if they have Irish passports?

I'm not having a go at Derry City here, I'm having a go at FIFA.

I'm guessing it was far more palatable to change the rules for Derry City, on the grounds that there was no senior club in (London)Derry at the time, so there was no 'robbery' going on as such.

I've sympathy for all sides here, even the IFA - I know the IFA isn't the ideal organisation, but they are running schoolboy leagues (for all denominations) which tend to be a breakeven/loser at best financially, and like all countries outside the Big4 in europe their major (only?) source of revenue to fund all this is the Senior International side.
So to have some of their best players leave to play for the ROI after taking advantage of the schoolboy system must be galling.

citytillidie

DerekD Goldfish wrote: »

Cardiff play in England should all welsh cardiff players be allowed play for england?

If your born anywhere in the UK and can play for any UK national team.

Mr.Nice Guy

DerekD Goldfish wrote: »

There is no such thing as "The Irish Nation"

Despite the fact that our own Irish constitution entitles anyone to be part of the Irish nation?

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

You fail to see the Irish Nation as including anyone who is not connected (FIFA wise) to the RoI. The fact of the matter is DG is as Irish as the next Irishman. It is not a question of 'just because he feels Irish'.

Well said.