Pumped cavity insulation?

sandt

for our new build i had intended to build a 150mm cavity and use 100mm board insulation (kingspan/quinn) as i dont want to dryline.....that was until i got a quote for it - 3600e!!

so im now looking at a pumped cavity of maybe 125mm which may get me down to around the 0.22 u-value or will it?? im getting a few quotes for it back this week but expect it to be around 1800e or so.

just wondering what people think of the pumped insulation? advantages / disadvantages, or maybe i would just be better to go down the normal board route?

sandt

anyone???

ive tried to search for pumped cavity insulation but couldnt find much........

surely some people on here have had experience of it????

sydthebeat

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=2041114&pp=25&page=2

some opinion above...

and also here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055232590&highlight=pumped

RKQ

Bead is fine for reto-fit.
I'm not convinced about new build. I'm not even sure about filing a cavity completely! We developed a Cavity over the last 130 years, for a reason - wind driven rain! The cavity was designed to prevent damp / water penetration.
Foil backed high density insulation is my preferred choice. Its easy to work with, which makes proper installation easier.

sydthebeat

RKQ wrote: »

Bead is fine for reto-fit.
I'm not convinced about new build. I'm not even sure about filing a cavity completely! We developed a Cavity over the last 130 years, for a reason - wind driven rain! The cavity was designed to prevent damp / water penetration.
Foil backed high density insulation is my preferred choice. Its easy to work with, which makes proper installation easier.

Highly contentious opinion RKQ

it would be the opinion of many contrubutors to this forum that its the very fact that partial fill insulation is almost never installed properly, that makes it a sub-standard option...

ardara1

sydthebeat wrote: »

Highly contentious opinion RKQ

it would be the opinion of many contrubutors to this forum that its the very fact that partial fill insulation is almost never installed properly, that makes it a sub-standard option...

Hi Syd - back to the same ol' story - if it's not in properly - you can;t achieve the Yof 0.08 in DEAP, never mind the improved 0.04 - from July as an assessor you must revert back to a Y 0.15 - you'll never/should achieve an 'A' rating without the detailing being up to scratch on site.

How do you prove the detailing on full fill?

sydthebeat

ardara1 wrote: »

Hi Syd - back to the same ol' story - if it's not in properly - you can;t achieve the Yof 0.08 in DEAP, never mind the improved 0.04 - from July as an assessor you must revert back to a Y 0.15 - you'll never/should achieve an 'A' rating without the detailing being up to scratch on site.

How do you prove the detailing on full fill?

I assume thats rhetorical...

exactly.... this describes the huge issue with BERs being a desk exercise....

Your questionairre will ask, "are all details in accordance with current building regs"... i can guarantee that almost every builder will answer 'yes' to this question. even if you contact the certifier of the build, most will also answer yes, without knowing the exact answer.

I have often seen
1. no insulation behind cills
2. no insulation between concrete lintels
3. haphazard insulation at jambs
4. no insulation at thresholds

I personally always insist on full fill insulation at Jambs and heads.. ie DPC firmly lodged between outer block and 110mm of insulation.... some builders look at me like im mental..... i wont allow them install the windows and doors until every head and jambs is full.....

ardara1

sydthebeat wrote: »

I assume thats rhetorical...

exactly.... this describes the huge issue with BERs being a desk exercise....

Your questionairre will ask, "are all details in accordance with current building regs"... i can guarantee that almost every builder will answer 'yes' to this question. even if you contact the certifier of the build, most will also answer yes, without knowing the exact answer.

I have often seen
1. no insulation behind cills
2. no insulation between concrete lintels
3. haphazard insulation at jambs
4. no insulation at thresholds

I personally always insist on full fill insulation at Jambs and heads.. ie DPC firmly lodged between outer block and 110mm of insulation.... some builders look at me like im mental..... i wont allow them install the windows and doors until every head and jambs is full.....

I've noticed that the same problems with Partial Fill effect Full Fill in exactly the same way - snots on wall ties and unleaned block create voids in full fill also.

The thing is that desk exercise or not - somebody has to inspect the accredited/acceptable details on site and sign them off. If evidence is not produces then the 0.08Y will not be accepted by SEI - default back to 0.15 - really bad scores.

With so much insulation going into the walls/floor plains - the junction that are not insulated will show up incredably well on a thermo-survey. I'm recommending that a survey €450 be included in the contract!That'll sort them

sandt

RKQ wrote: »

Bead is fine for reto-fit.
I'm not convinced about new build. I'm not even sure about filing a cavity completely! We developed a Cavity over the last 130 years, for a reason - wind driven rain! The cavity was designed to prevent damp / water penetration.
Foil backed high density insulation is my preferred choice. Its easy to work with, which makes proper installation easier.

well i have talked to 3 different suppliers of pumped insulation & they are all sure that with a normal block wall - plastered - that there is no chance of ingress. they say this can only happen with brick or fair faced blockwork.

but then again they are trying to sell me a product............

anyone on here actually have in their house? or know of people with it? opinions???


im really in a dilemma about this..........i have my local builders providers holding last weeks prices (pre 10% increase) for me but they will only hold it till the end of the week........i need to decide ASAP!!!

sydthebeat

Forget about the partial fill board, pump in rockwool energysaver.... not the polystyrene beads.... the rockwool is pumped in under pressure, and expands while it 'sets' into a hard glazed like substance with improved air tightness qualities.......

bbam

anyone on here actually have in their house? or know of people with it? opinions???

We spoke to three households who had their house pumped before chosing to go with the full fill, some new some retro jobs, all were happy.

Ask around your locality... this is quite a common process and has been going on for a while... someone near you will have had it done.

Villain

I'm in the middle of a new self build and I decided to pump the walls, from what I have read the small beads don't allow damp to pass through the cavity.

ircoha

bbam wrote: »

We spoke to three households who had their house pumped before chosing to go with the full fill, some new some retro jobs, all were happy.

Ask around your locality... this is quite a common process and has been going on for a while... someone near you will have had it done.

How was/is their sense/level of happiness measured?

Have they had thermal imaging done before and after or air-tightness before after.

When I was in the pram, happiness was a cigar called Hamlet, not much has changed:D.

muffler

ircoha wrote: »

When I was in the pram, happiness was a cigar called Hamlet, not much has changed:D.

And your nappies were hand washed and reused. Now they are disposable.

How things have changed

sinnerboy

Noel Edmonds , Cheggars plays pop , wanderly wagon , Bay city rollers ....all coming back to me now




Damn!

hiscan

sandt wrote: »

well i have talked to 3 different suppliers of pumped insulation & they are all sure that with a normal block wall - plastered - that there is no chance of ingress. they say this can only happen with brick or fair faced blockwork.

but then again they are trying to sell me a product............

anyone on here actually have in their house? or know of people with it? opinions???


im really in a dilemma about this..........i have my local builders providers holding last weeks prices (pre 10% increase) for me but they will only hold it till the end of the week........i need to decide ASAP!!!

ive pumped my cavitys with the beads and drylined the inside of the house highly recommended you wont regret it
1800 to pump 3000sq ft house and garage 400sq ft

John mac

I have 30mm insulation backed plasterboard only . (the house was built in 2002)
would there be any problems from condensation if i got the cavity filled?
would the rockwool stuff be ok?

J

sydthebeat

John, theres more chance of condensation problems as it is.. i would definitely advise you to pump the cavity if there no isulation there already...

John mac

must get on to it so.
there is none in the cavity.
what would the aprox cost per m2 be? just as a guideline.

John mac

InstaFibre Yellow Wool or

Rockwool Energysaver

is there much of a difference?


got one quote for 1650 waiting for another guy to come out to me today.

Thanks J

RKQ

And your nappies were hand washed and reused. Now they are disposable.

How things have changed!

Any one remember that fantastic material called Asbestos?
It was the do all material up to the mid 80's!
School wall panels, slates, ceiling panels, roofing etc, etc. All the suppliers said it was great... the material of the future.... then we learned it was cancerous!
Cost millions to remove.

Could a cavity insulation cause damp, condensation or worse?
How would you remove it from the cavity?

Ever seen wall-ties stain an internal wall, because of water penetration?
Imagine if the cavity insulation trapped water in the cavity!
Worse still, imagine if it acted as a spoonge and stored water all winter.
Internal walls would be distroyed.... house wold be uninhabital!

Ever seen a house with polystyrene insulation, being demolished?
See all the channels / tunnels eaten in it by rats & mice!
Rats love polystyrene! I'm sure they adore beads!
Warm and loose - perfect bedding.:rolleyes:

I'm not against full cavity fill... just do your homework.
Use a reputable material, professionally installed by a reputable installer.
Use an international company with a proven IAG and hope for the best....
Pray your render is waterproof but breathable ( sounds a contradiction):)

Time is a great teacher, the test of time will tell.

ardara1

Interesting article

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/main.jhtml?xml=/property/2005/11/23/pjeff23.xml

John mac

Interesting article

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/...23/pjeff23.xml

It's 3 years old now.:D

danyosan

I'm looking into this at the moment as well.

Could anyone PM me some contacts for this service, that would be available in Co. Wicklow.

John mac

http://www.nsai.ie/index.cfm/area/page/information/CertProdInstal
has a list.

danyosan

John mac wrote: »

http://www.nsai.ie/index.cfm/area/page/information/CertProdInstal
has a list.

Thanks.