July=End of the CEOs Exec Saloon

ninty9er

I've just come across a very interesting and inspiring measure in the VRT changes, (which explain the movement in our carpark recently)

From July 1st there will be no more capital allowances and tax deductions (tax write-offs) on vehicles emitting more than 191g/km, or the tax and insurance costs on them. My friend's dad seems fairly pissed off, but hey, it's probably not going to stop him buying a bigger, more guzzling monster next year. So there will be a severely increased expense to the self employed and companies providing company cars emitting above these levels. The GS450h is about the most powerful car of that type inside this band. All S-Class, A8, LS and 7 Series models fall well outside. Allowances are also reduced for vehicles between 155g/km and 191g/km as part of this measure

+1 for the little guy

moleyC

ninty9er wrote: »

+1 for the little guy

Not really +1 for the little guy, more like -1 for the big guy.

And only +1 for the guy who likes to see -1 for someone else isn't it.

Marcus.Aurelius

Just more empty rhetoric from a hopeless govt. Irrespective of emissions, litres used should form the basis of our car tax.

-5000 for everyone really

(not a dig at you ninty9er, moreso the greens)

pburns

maoleary wrote: »

Just more empty rhetoric from a hopeless govt. Irrespective of emissions, litres used should form the basis of our car tax.

-5000 for everyone really

(not a dig at you ninty9er, moreso the greens)

Can't agree with that...

Having a tax/VRT system based on engine capacity is just plain dumb and has resulted in under-engined Irish 'specials' like the 1.6 Avensis, 316 etc. At least the new system awards efficency and technological advancement.

Some great cars have become more attainable - most diesel Bimmers, Audi's forthcoming petrol turbo and there'll be many more on the way.

E92

The world has been getting cooler for the past couple of years - has anyone notice that the Greenies only talk about "Climate Change" rather than "Global Warming" these days?

So why are we making such a fuss about CO2 other than the fact that you can save money? No don't for a second get me confused with somebody who bemoans the end of the engine size tax code - anything that will get rid of the Irish mentality on engine size and will get rid of all the Irish specials like the 316i/1.6 Avensis etc is obviously a big step forward, but it is completely overly simplistic to tax on just one emission, when diesels make our air quality worse, have carcinogenic fumes, make summers even more of a pain for hay fever sufferers and are on the whole only good at lower CO2(and CO it must be said too) but very bad for our health. No distinction between Euro 4 and Euro 5 is a serious oversight too, as is nit making DPFs mandatory for all paraffin stoves.

Merc have an S400 hybrid coming out next year that's petrol and manages 190g/km apparently. Similarly the new 7 series out by the end of the year will offer big improvements to CO2 compared with the outgoing model as well as a hybrid option.

Marcus.Aurelius

The per litre of fuel tax makes sense!! ( I think you thought I meant tax based on engine cc)

It would mean that a hell of a lot more cars would become attainable. If you do little mileage, it wouldn't matter what you drive. If you drive a lot, you would be much more considerate. Under the July system I can drive a 2.0 diesel 50,000 miles a year for 1/5 of the tax of the man driving a 4.0 V8 1,000 miles a year emitting 1/25th of the emissions.

It's unfair and unbalanced. And we'll just roll over and thank the kind govt for financially sodomising us yet again.

EDIT: Cheers E92 for your thoughts!!

towel401

now they will probably just bring in more irish specials like a turbine-electric CLS and a hummer with regenerative braking

Oilrig

Wise up chaps, the eco based tax on new cars is to be applauded. But.

Car tax is a mainstay of local authority revenue. With the new system, said LA's will lose revenue. Welcome water charges, Rates etc.

Those of us who cannot afford a new car and the lower cost of ownership will subsidise this system through higher LA charges.

Mark my words.

Hope the Greens enjoy their (one) stint in Govt...

If central Gov doesn't cough up the shortfall you can take it out on the FF'rs.

unkel

maoleary wrote: »

If you do little mileage, it wouldn't matter what you drive. If you drive a lot, you would be much more considerate. Under the July system I can drive a 2.0 diesel 50,000 miles a year for 1/5 of the tax of the man driving a 4.0 V8 1,000 miles a year emitting 1/25th of the emissions.

It's unfair and unbalanced.

Indeed! And fair play to you for copping on. Now let's convince the rest of the nation. It might take a few of us to convince John Thicko Gormless though...

x in the city

Under the July system I can drive a 2.0 diesel 50,000 miles a year for 1/5 of the tax of the man driving a 4.0 V8 1,000 miles a year emitting 1/25th of the emissions


so diesel is more 'greener' than petol then

and the whole fuss about the new tax reigme is utter c0ck then?


nice

ramanujan

unkel wrote: »

Indeed! And fair play to you for copping on. Now let's convince the rest of the nation. It might take a few of us to convince John Thicko Gormless though...

Couldn't agree with you more. Not having the faintest interest in politics so far in my life is there actually anything we can do?

Because as far as I can see, any reasonable person would view a levy on our petrol as the fairest option. Abolish motor tax altogether I say! (Numerous benefits - inline with the polluter pays philosophy, - foreign cars would be contributing tax, - easily adjusted from a revenue generation perspective)

Also, to address the OPer, Merc, BMW and audi will adapt their engine ranges to suit our legislation as per usual. As mentioned above Merc have a super low emission petrol engine on the cards, Audi could problem put in a low Co2 2.0tdi A8 if there was a demand(smallest diesel presently is the 3.0tdi).

pburns

maoleary wrote: »

The per litre of fuel tax makes sense!! ( I think you thought I meant tax based on engine cc)

It would mean that a hell of a lot more cars would become attainable. If you do little mileage, it wouldn't matter what you drive. If you drive a lot, you would be much more considerate. Under the July system I can drive a 2.0 diesel 50,000 miles a year for 1/5 of the tax of the man driving a 4.0 V8 1,000 miles a year emitting 1/25th of the emissions.

It's unfair and unbalanced. And we'll just roll over and thank the kind govt for financially sodomising us yet again.

EDIT: Cheers E92 for your thoughts!!

Yeah, I took you up wrong sorry...

E92 has made an excellent point the rules being an overly simplistic to tax on just one emission, when diesels have many other disadvantages. I don't share his optimism that the Irish obsession with small engine sizes will cease. Expect a pletora of low CO2 Focus sized cars the sqeeze into Band A through paltry BHP figures. And don't be surprised if the next Avensis will probably get the tiny 1.4 Toyota diesel to replace the Irish-special 1.6 petrol :eek: I'm convinced that Irish peoople have an obsession with getting a car that covers as much real-estate as possible irrespective of power, drivability, extras etc. That's why lardy-arsed Megane-type saloons are so popular here.

The movement towards taxing people according to usage seems to be gathering momentum. I'm still not convinced it is an equitable system (even though, as a relatively low mileage driver, I would actually benefit). It punishes those who HAVE TO use their cars in a country with a totally inadequete public transport system.

It's widely championed here because, IMO, many boardies are urban-dwelling heads who cover very small mileage all-week and daydream of having that 4.0 V8 tucked away for weekend 'fun'!

Which is all fine-and-dandy but take your car enthusiast goggles off and appreciate the fact that we live in a country with little or no high-rise, urban sprawl and an atrocious public transport system...

Beta Ray Bill

They should abolish road tax altogether and instead place the tax in the price of fuel

IE the more you burn the more you pay.
It's Simple and it's Fair.

The same should be done for 3rd party insurance.
That way you would be assured that everyone on the road has insurance.

And don't say the insurance companies would go out of business cause people with nice cars would still like to have them fully comp which the private sector could provide.

peasant

pburns wrote: »

The movement towards taxing people according to usage seems to be gathering momentum. I'm still not convinced it is an equitable system (even though, as a relatively low mileage driver, I would actually benefit). It punishes those who HAVE TO use their cars in a country with a totally inadequete public transport system.

It's widely championed here because, IMO, many boardies are urban-dwelling heads who cover very small mileage all-week and daydream of having that 4.0 V8 tucked away for weekend 'fun'!

Which is all fine-and-dandy but take your car enthusiast goggles off and appreciate the fact that we live in a country with little or no high-rise, urban sprawl and an atrocious public transport system...

Yes, let's not forget that large part of the population that got a rough deal during the so called "cetlic tiger years".

Those people that got pushed out into the countryside because it was the only place where they could afford (-ish) your typical cardboard house and are now saddled with a massive mortgage and falling property values, a one hour plus commute to work, two jobs and two cars , one in order to pay the mortgage and the other to keep the 1.7 children stashed away all day.

Taxing the fuel would break these peoples (financial) necks once and for all.

green-blood

peasant wrote: »

Yes, let's not forget that large part of the population that got a rough deal during the so called "cetlic tiger years".

Those people that got pushed out into the countryside because it was the only place where they could afford (-ish) your typical cardboard house and are now saddled with a massive mortgage and falling property values, a one hour plus commute to work, two jobs and two cars , one in order to pay the mortgage and the other to keep the 1.7 children stashed away all day.

Taxing the fuel would break these peoples (financial) necks once and for all.

how so... in order to move our 3 kids about we did the responsible thing and bought a diesel people carrier.... with 600 quid a year road tax, the new enviro friendly road tax (hmm) come in this year, but we bought last september, now I pay 230 a year more for the same car, emitting the same CO2... not to mention teh extra depreciation Mr gormley took out of my pocket on budget day, I'll gladly spread that tax over a year by paying at the pump than paying in lump sums. It'll actually help the family budget.

The point makes no sense

peasant

green-blood wrote: »

how so... teh point makes no snese

beeecause, the way fuel prices are going at the moment, if you ad motor tax on top of them, you will be paying 2 Euro per liter by next month or so.

G-Money

I guess depending on the make and model, you could save yourself a lot of money by importing and paying VRT after July 1st. I did a quick calculation for a nice 2006 BMW 320D SE that I seen. It looked like the VRT was going to drop by about 3000 euro after July 1st.

Unfortunately the car was sold to someone else and I wouldn't have had enough money to pay the VRT anyway (or pay for the car for that matter either). But one can dream

Cmar-Ireland

+1 for the tax on fuel.

green-blood

the suggestion is to replace ALL vrt and raod taxation with pay as you go with sat nav and cameras..... which is silly, but lumped on to fuel makes sense.

so I'll save 600 a year on tax, thats a lot of fuel duty.... say 20c a litre would give me 15000 miles before i'd pay an extra panny, were my car to be bought new minus 15K worth of VRT/vat i'd be much happier

(only 2 "e" in because, you're not a civil servant by any chance)

peasant

Lumping all the taxes onto the fuel does make sense (for me personally even more so, as I only have a very short commute) but ...

Most of the people that actually are supposed to carry our economy at the moment are those living 50 -80 km outside Dublin, in overpriced housing estates with no facilities and no connection to what little public transport we have. These people are stretched to the limit as it is, taxing their commute via the fuel price would hit them too hard, it would be political suicide to do so.

Plus (and that's the cynic in me speaking) the state probably makes considerably more money off the existing system.

Zube

green-blood, if the idea is to replace vrt, then that 15,000 would have to go on your fuel bill over the life of the car, say 10 years, 1500 a year extra fuel tax, say an extra €1 a litre? Add in 3rd party insurance, say another 40c. Road tax, another 40c.

So, you pay no VRT or 3rd party insurance, just €3 a litre for petrol.

As peasant points out this is a regressive tax: it helps the wealthy Ferrari collector, and hurts the "two TDis" commuting family.

_Kaiser_

peasant wrote: »

Lumping all the taxes onto the fuel does make sense (for me personally even more so, as I only have a very short commute) but ...

Most of the people that actually are supposed to carry our economy at the moment are those living 50 -80 km outside Dublin, in overpriced housing estates with no facilities and no connection to what little public transport we have. These people are stretched to the limit as it is, taxing their commute via the fuel price would hit them too hard, it would be political suicide to do so.

But would it? I'm not disagreeing, but I think you give the voters in this country too much credit. After all, look at what we've put up with from our politicians in the last 10-20 years - scandal after scandal, numerous brown envelopes, squandering the economic boom that we did have, a former taoiseach that "can't remember" his financial dealings when queried at yet another expensive (and no doubt ultimately pointless) tribunal paid for by that same taxpayer etc

Of course, part of the problem is the opposition. FF didn't so much win the last election as much as the alternative coalition threw it away :rolleyes: FF have shown time and again that they can - and will - do whatever they want (how about the L-plate fiasco a few months back that was announced as a cover on the same day as Beritie's latest pay hike). The problem is noone (in my opinion rightly) believes that FG would be any better.

Personally I need my car for work as I look after multiple sites over a pretty large area. Public transport (or reduced car usage) therefore isn't an option. I'm clocking up around 20-23k miles annually and for that reason I've recently upgraded to a 2.0 TDI Auto DSG Passat. pburns hit the nail on the head above when he pointed out that this "let's tax everyone on their usage" idea fails to take into account people like myself (or others who are commuting into Dublin) who NEED their car as a result of the short-sightedness (read: greed and corruption) of the last government.

But hey, we're Irish so we'll bitch about it here and in the pubs to our mates but ultimately we'll all just bend over and take it as per usual so I suppose we've only ourselves to blame.

Cyrus

mmmm

so you are doing 20-25k a year in a tdi passat, and pay whatever it is 400 quid a year road tax, and emit all sorts of co2 and other gases

while i do 8k a year in my car, pay 1500 a year and emit half as much

make sense

you are exactly the sort of person who should pay more tax if pollution is now the name of the game

positron

Off topic but, I take public transport to work (> 2k a year) and car is only for weekend getaways, visiting friends and relatives, shopping and for emergencies etc and I might do a 2-4k miles a year! Here I am paying same tax as someone who drives 40 or 60 miles a year!

The other day someone commented the VRT / CO2 rubbish is all due to Greens being in power. So to the greens then, how about giving me a discounted motor tax rate based on how much I am paying out for the public rail/bus ticket? Now wouldn't that be a great incentive to get people try out public transport and eventually use them as main mode of commute?

_Kaiser_

Cyrus wrote: »

mmmm

so you are doing 20-25k a year in a tdi passat, and pay whatever it is 400 quid a year road tax, and emit all sorts of co2 and other gases

while i do 8k a year in my car, pay 1500 a year and emit half as much

make sense

you are exactly the sort of person who should pay more tax if pollution is now the name of the game

*sigh* Clearly you didn't read the full post so I'll point it out for you:

Personally I need my car for work as I look after multiple sites over a pretty large area. Public transport (or reduced car usage) therefore isn't an option.

Sure it'd be nice if I could live next door to the office, or walk out my front door to the conveniently located bus/rail stop and be able to depend on being whisked to the office in comfort - but unfortunately (and I did public transport for 25+ years so I think I know a little about it) this is only a fantasy in Dublin (and non-existent in most towns/cities beyond the city boundaries) so despite what the Greens would like you to believe, people aren't suddenly "evil and wrong" for using their cars rather than wasting hours in dirty, dangerously overcrowded, scumbag filled unreliable buses/trains - especially when this "option" isn't even available! If anything more fool you (and others) who honestly believe this isn't simply the latest cash cow for the government.

towel401

grahambo wrote: »

They should abolish road tax altogether and instead place the tax in the price of fuel

IE the more you burn the more you pay.
It's Simple and it's Fair.

The same should be done for 3rd party insurance.
That way you would be assured that everyone on the road has insurance.

And don't say the insurance companies would go out of business cause people with nice cars would still like to have them fully comp which the private sector could provide.

great idea. that way we would see a lot more electric cars on the road. as long as they don't start bringing in mandatory GPS tracking devices on cars i'm all for it

Cyrus

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

*sigh* Clearly you didn't read the full post so I'll point it out for you:

Sure it'd be nice if I could live next door to the office, or walk out my front door to the conveniently located bus/rail stop and be able to depend on being whisked to the office in comfort - but unfortunately (and I did public transport for 25+ years so I think I know a little about it) this is only a fantasy in Dublin (and non-existent in most towns/cities beyond the city boundaries) so despite what the Greens would like you to believe, people aren't suddenly "evil and wrong" for using their cars rather than wasting hours in dirty, dangerously overcrowded, scumbag filled unreliable buses/trains - especially when this "option" isn't even available! If anything more fool you (and others) who honestly believe this isn't simply the latest cash cow for the government.

sorry i fully understood your post, and its an unfortunate position, but thats not the point, the point is, if this is supposed to be a tax on emissions you should pay more, full stop.

anyway it isnt, its just some mumbo jumbo crap, disguised as something else.

andreas_220D

peasant wrote: »

beeecause, the way fuel prices are going at the moment, if you ad motor tax on top of them, you will be paying 2 Euro per liter by next month or so.

I'm pretty sure we will pay 2 Euro by the end of the year, so necks will break sooner or later anyway.

Cionád

Cyrus wrote: »

sorry i fully understood your post, and its an unfortunate position, but thats not the point, the point is, if this is supposed to be a tax on emissions you should pay more, full stop.

anyway it isnt, its just some mumbo jumbo crap, disguised as something else.

Think of it as more a tax on inefficiency rather than emmisions.

Cyrus

Thats an utter nonsense

Victor_M

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

*sigh* Clearly you didn't read the full post so I'll point it out for you:

Sure it'd be nice if I could live next door to the office, or walk out my front door to the conveniently located bus/rail stop and be able to depend on being whisked to the office in comfort - but unfortunately (and I did public transport for 25+ years so I think I know a little about it) this is only a fantasy in Dublin (and non-existent in most towns/cities beyond the city boundaries) so despite what the Greens would like you to believe, people aren't suddenly "evil and wrong" for using their cars rather than wasting hours in dirty, dangerously overcrowded, scumbag filled unreliable buses/trains - especially when this "option" isn't even available! If anything more fool you (and others) who honestly believe this isn't simply the latest cash cow for the government.

Kaiser, if you are all over the city in your car with work you should be getting a mileage allowance, anyone I know that does work related driving gets there work related juice paid for.

Taxing Fuel is the only sensible option, it hits the polluters, it gets taxes from those up the North who have the best of both worlds, It taxes those from Eastern Europe and the UK who have forgotten to tax their cars.

There is no other sensible option out there that will work & be fair to drivers.