Cycle lanes away from traffic

BostonB

Pity they couldn't put cycle lanes longside the Luas, and down the Canals. People need safe routes to cycle on, and easy routes through the city.

cyclopath2001

Bicycle facility provision works as follows:

1: Construction.
2: Photo opportunity.
3: Digging it up.

As far as I know, all of Dublin City Council digging /cycle lane removal crews are at full stretch and provision new facilities are on hold until they catch up. The off-road lane in Fairview is taking months to dig up and is well behind schedule. Work on messing up the Clontarf section has only recently been completed.

On-road facilities are not affected by the shortage of crews as these can be easily be rendered useless by permitting cars to use them for driving and parking.

dogmatix

And a good idea too! According to Seamus Brennan the old harcourt street line was originally going to be a dedicated cycle route. Of course Seamus "harcourt street" Brennan would trot this sh*te out at every general election since the early 80's - I believe the dedicated cycle route thingy was from the 1987 election. Prior to that he was going to turn it into a dedicated bus route (you can just see a full 48A going over the milltown viaduct in a gale - right?) and whatever he thought would be worth a few votes at every general election.

Anyhow - I heard they are planning to ban all traffic from the city centre by 2011. I can't see that ever happening in reality but it would make it more bike friendly.

BostonB

I'm only back on the bike after many years away from it. I'm finding it hard to find an easy route through town on a bike, that avoids heavy traffic or at least easy/safe junctions. Quickest way seems just to get out there in the middle of the traffic, and hit the bigger roads as they have less lights/junctions. But you feel a bit exposed at times doing this.

I noticed a good few cyclists running the luas tracks up the northside quays to avoid going going down the southside quays. Makes no sense in places having no provision for cyclists. For example, at collins barracks to have massive pavements, really wide Luas tracks and bicycles are not allowed to use either. So legally you should be out on the quays. Everyone I talk to tells me to avoid the quays because it dangerous but its the most direct route into town, and doesn't seem that dangerous in grdlock anyway. Maybe I'm being naïve.

Most people I know (who can) won't cycle because they think its too dangerous. Seems like some cycle "highways" would be useful and doable if you consider the unused space along side canals, luas tracks, railways etc.

Run_to_da_hills

I think it would be a fantastic idea to move cycle lanes away from roads and also fine cyclists that don't use cycle lanes where provided. Nothing worse than a cyclist weaving through traffic when there is a cycle lane present. I have witnessed this regularly along the canal.

mikemac

I read here before that they were to put a path on the Green Luas line for cyclists and I suppose walkers would use it too.
Residents objected they thought there would be people on it knacker drinking and generally up to no good.

It wouldn’t be an area patrolled by gardai due to lack of access.

Don’t know if it’s true or not, it’s a pity anyway

seamus

Moving cycle lanes away from roads = good.
Moving cycle lanes onto paths = bad.

I have no problem at all with routes that take cycle lanes entirely off roadways, such as beside the LUAS or contraflow (with a separating kerb).

But simply moving it off the road onto a shared path beside the road is a total no-no, unless there are no entrances or other dangers, and the cycle lanes are at least 1.5m each.

fine cyclists that don't use cycle lanes where provided.

You could do a blanket "use the lanes", but often the cycle lane is a far more dangerous option than the road. Fine or no fine, I will continue to choose the safest path to cycle, not the one that's a cycle lane.

Ham'nd'egger

micmclo wrote: »

I read here before that they were to put a path on the Green Luas line for cyclists and I suppose walkers would use it too.
Residents objected they thought there would be people on it knacker drinking and generally up to no good.

It wouldn’t be an area patrolled by gardai due to lack of access.

Don’t know if it’s true or not, it’s a pity anyway

I don't know how that would work. It is a criminal offense to walk on a railway regardless of the safety side of things and as far as I know, it is illegal to cycle on a tramway as it is. I would personally hate to be a LUAS driver having to deal with bikes and pedestrians along it's entire route where it the case.

mikemac

Well, I’m assuming it was going to be a path beside the line and a railing for entire length to separate it from the Luas line.
But I don’t know all the facts and it didn’t happen anyway

A good example is the pathway between Ceannt Station and Renmore in Galway if you know it. That’s what I was thinking of

BostonB

We have cops on mountain bikes and horses, so access can't be a big issue.
The Luas shares roads with other road users in some sections and not in others.

Snickers Man

seamus wrote: »

Moving cycle lanes away from roads = good.
Moving cycle lanes onto paths = bad.

Depends how wide the paths are. In my experience just about every big city in Germany has cycle paths running down the middle of pavements and it works very well. The cycle paths are indented into the pavement and there's loads of space left for pedestrians.

I know it would be hard to retrofit to narrow city streets but in new towns and new suburbs they should be built in from scratch.

seamus

Snickers Man wrote: »

Depends how wide the paths are. In my experience just about every big city in Germany has cycle paths running down the middle of pavements and it works very well. The cycle paths are indented into the pavement and there's loads of space left for pedestrians.

I know it would be hard to retrofit to narrow city streets but in new towns and new suburbs they should be built in from scratch.

It does depend on the route too. I know of one particular track along both sides going through a Dublin "village". The track crosses multiple shop/garage/pub entrances and exits, many of them blind. No drivers check the cycle track for cyclists before pulling in and out of the businesses, they only look at the road.

So I don't use the track in this area.

BostonB

I wonder how the stats (accidents/deaths) compare between having cycle lanes on paths, (Cyclists vs Pedestrians) and cycle lanes on busy major roads (Cyclists vs Motor Vehicles). Or vs trams for that matter.

I think cyclopath2001 might be right about photo opportunities etc.

cyclopath2001

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

fine cyclists that don't use cycle lanes where provided.

Have you ever given any thought as to why they're not using the cycle lanes?

Run_to_da_hills

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Have you ever given any thought as to why they're not using the cycle lanes?

Some cyclists have the same metality as joggers.

cyclopath2001

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Some cyclists have the same metality as joggers.

True. But that's not always the whole story.

But maybe the lane is obstructed by cars or is in a left-hand filter or they're turning right ahead?

If cycle lanes were provided for reasons of cyclist safety, cars wouldn't be allowed park or drive in them.

Mucco

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

I think it would be a fantastic idea to move cycle lanes away from roads and also fine cyclists that don't use cycle lanes where provided. Nothing worse than a cyclist weaving through traffic when there is a cycle lane present. I have witnessed this regularly along the canal.

I trot this out everytime someone questions why cyclists don't cycle on the cycle lane:

Cycle path safety: A summary of research

A few quotes:
'Sweden: At junctions cycle tracks 3.4 times more dangerous than using road, but rising to 11.9 riding in 'wrong' direction.'
'Toronto: Injury likelihood 10:20:70 roads:cyclepaths:footways'
'In Helsinki, using a road-side cycle path is nearly 2.5 times likely to result in injury than cycling on the carriageway with traffic'

BostonB

Does the % of accidents increase simply because there more cyclists on a route with cycle lanes than one without?

cyclopath2001

Mucco wrote: »

'In Helsinki, using a road-side cycle path is nearly 2.5 times likely to result in injury than cycling on the carriageway with traffic'

On my route home there's a road with cars parked on it. Not a big problem, it's wide enough, although I do need to leave a margin for door safety. Now, Dublin City Council has put an 'advisory' cycle track there, but cars are still allowed park on it. If I was to follow the letter of the law, I'd now have to cycle the whole length of the cycle track with my right arm stuck out all the time, as required by the regulations.

Safer? I don't think so.

lostexpectation

we need horse lanes, there some eco transport horses for hire

BraziliaNZ

Snickers Man wrote: »

Depends how wide the paths are. In my experience just about every big city in Germany has cycle paths running down the middle of pavements and it works very well. The cycle paths are indented into the pavement and there's loads of space left for pedestrians.

I know it would be hard to retrofit to narrow city streets but in new towns and new suburbs they should be built in from scratch.

German cities do have this but they also have people who respect rules and the law. If you walk on the cycle tracks in Germany the bikers shout and ding their bells at you. Can you imagine the amount of cyclists who would be pulled off their bikes and assaulted by enraged scumbags that have been dinged at?

Hotblack Desiato

Judging by the frequency cyclists here go flying through red lights even when there is a green man and pedestrians already crossing, it's the pedestrians who should be worrying for their safety on a shared track not the cyclists.

One gave me the finger the other day as he sped through the pedestrian crossing, charming :mad:

steve-o

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Nothing worse than a cyclist weaving through traffic when there is a cycle lane present. I have witnessed this regularly along the canal.

That must've been a very traumatic experience. I hope you are ok. I can't imagine anything worse.

cyclopath2001

ninja900 wrote: »

Judging by the frequency cyclists here go flying through red lights

What with some cyclists riding through red lights and so many motorists failing to stop on amber or just blocking the crossing completely, it's pretty tough being a pedestrian.

The last thing pedestrians need is to have cycle traffic shunted onto footpaths that are not wide enough for both.

Hotblack Desiato

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

What with some cyclists riding through red lights and so many motorists failing to stop on amber or just blocking the crossing completely, it's pretty tough being a pedestrian.

True but pedestrians are often their own worst enemy, too!

Needless to say all of the above road user groups can break the law in multiple ways under the nose of the Gardai and nine times out of ten get away with it. It's more or less anarchy out there and the ones who suffer the most are the ones without metal cages surrounding them.

You only have to try to cross the road at (e.g.) the Stephen's Green end of Leeson St, or from Nassau St to Westmoreland St to see where the interests of pedestrians really feature with DCC, DTO, DOT et al, pond life is treated better. Dublin is a pretty pedestrian hostile city.