Sinn Fein try to block First Minister

LordSutch

PM talks to avert Stormont crisis ~ BBC News/ni
Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams has emerged from talks with Prime Minister Gordon Brown in London without making any comment. It follows speculation Sinn Féin may derail Peter Robinson's elevation as Northern Ireland's first minister.

Sinn Féin is known to be unhappy at the DUP's continued veto of devolving policing and justice. A crisis could result in an assembly election. It's understood DUP leader Mr Robinson may meet Mr Brown in London later. It has also emerged that the Sinn Fein and DUP leaderships had talks at Stormont on Monday. It was expected to be a formality on Thursday, after Ian Paisley stepped down as first minister to be replaced by Peter Robinson, that Sinn Féin would nominate Martin McGuinness as deputy first minister. If Mr McGuinness is not nominated, the two parties have one week to resolve the issue before the Northern Ireland Secretary steps in.
Shaun Woodward could call an election to break the deadlock. The potential crisis is serious enough to have got the attention of both London and Dublin with telephone diplomacy involving the two governments. In a statement, Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams said his party was focused on talks to resolve outstanding issues such as the devolution of policing and justice and an Irish language act. BBC NI political editor Mark Devenport said it was difficult to gauge how serious the situation was. "If they (Sinn Féin) don't actually nominate Martin McGuinness, then we get into what is being called 'the nuclear option'. "This would mean that the secretary of state would have to go for a fresh election which, on the face of it, you would think nobody would want at this stage. "My guess is that they would probably prefer to settle this, having won a concession here or there, rather than going the whole way."

Just wondering if this is a storm in a tea cup or the tip of an iceberg? either way, we will know later today or tomorrow, but in the meantime Why is Sinn Fein rocking the boat? things are going smoothly enough arent they? and Paisley spelt it out recently when he said 'clearly & distinctly' the position re Policing & Justice powers "The IRA Army council must disappear first" before ...............

What say you? any ideas what Sinn Fein are up to this time

RDM_83

Maybe its because it wouldn't be a good idea for the Army Council to disappear at the present time, look at the fractionalised and feuding Loyalist groups who importantly _have not had to disarm_

also read this seems to be a good breakdown of the reasons
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7432152.stm

ninty9er

ArthurF wrote: »

"This would mean that the secretary of state would have to go for a fresh election which, on the face of it, you would think nobody would want at this stage. "My guess is that they would probably prefer to settle this, having won a concession here or there, rather than going the whole way."

Do SF polls show something damaging about Robinson as leader?? After all, there's a possibility a good bit of support that could revert to the UUP if an election were called, giving SF a stronger hand, whereas everything else is cetiris paribus.

baztard

The St. Andrews agreement set out certain promises/policies (I'm not sure which) in regards to the devolution of policing powers to Stormont and the setting up of a credible Irish language act. The DUP have reneged on both of these by use of their veto. Sinn Féin are essentially saying enough is enough, and are not backing Peter Robinson, which may lead to an election. It will be interesting to see how the DUP react to a dose of their own brand of bully boy tactics. Fair play to Sinn Féin on this one I think, sometimes you just have to take a stand.

LordSutch

Ah yes, but what about the IRA Army council? surely Sinn Fein should have them 'stood down' or just make them dissappear before Justice & Policing is delivered into their hands? Sinn Fein cant expect to be in Government & in control of Policing & also continue to have the IRA Army council in the background!

Well done to the DUP for standing firm & not bending to Sinn Fein demands.

baztard

ArthurF wrote: »

Well done to the DUP for standing firm & not bending to Sinn Fein demands.

and... St. Andrews Agreetment, Irish & British governments demands.

baztard

ArthurF wrote: »

Ah yes, but what about the IRA Army council? surely Sinn Fein should have them 'stood down' or just make them dissappear before Justice & Policing is delivered into their hands? Sinn Fein cant expect to be in Government & in control of Policing & also continue to have the IRA Army council in the background!

I agree the army council should go. But its safer to let something like it disslove over time rather than fracture instantly if the plug is pulled on it. Also, it may exist, but its effectively out of operation.

I think the DUP don't really care about the Army Council, its all about saving face for them, by not giving into all Sinn Féin demands, be it this one or another one. they are trying to hold onto their hardline anti republican image, whilst also being in government with republicans. This is a hard balance for them to keep I'm sure.

axer

I think it would actually be a crazy move if the army council was instantly disbanded. It would only give someone else a reason to start a new IRA council that may have no influence from SF.

I think SF are correct in their stance on this issue as agreements are not being met.

LordSutch

Paisley has said many times that he would like to have Justice & Policing powers in the hands of the Northern Ireland Assembly (& he even reiterated this in his farewell speech just last week) but only if & when Sinn Fein dismantle the IRA Army council, and I say fair enough to Paisley & the DUP for playing hard ball, because if they dont they will possibly go the way of Trimble & the UUP & be pulled apart by Sinn Fein.

Sinn Fein cant have their cake & eat it now, the DUP are not the UUP & I think it only fair that any remnants of the IRA are done away with once & for all "Before" Policing & Justice is actually delivered into the hands of Sinn Fein & the DUP!

Thats fair enough isnt it?

baztard

ArthurF wrote: »

Paisley has said many times that he would like to have Justice & Policing powers in the hands of the Northern Ireland Assembly (& he even reiterated this in his farewell speech just last week) but only if & when Sinn Fein dismantle the IRA Army council, and I say fair enough to Paisley & the DUP for playing hard ball, because if they dont they will possibly go the way of Trimble & the UUP & be pulled apart by Sinn Fein.

Sinn Fein cant have their cake & eat it now, the DUP are not the UUP & I think it only fair that any remnants of the IRA are done away with once & for all "Before" Policing & Justice is actually delivered into the hands of Sinn Fein & the DUP!

Thats fair enough isnt it?

In principal it might be true, depending on whether or not you believe the Army Council to be of any significance. But all that is irrelevant due to the agreements made at St. Andrews, whereby devolution of policing powers was agreed by all parties (and I presume it was without reference to the Army Council). Everybody kept up their side of the agreement except the DUP. If they didn't like what they were signing up for, why didn't they re-negociate?

The DUP have overplayed their veto as such, and now Sinn Féin are forced to do the same also. I'd like to point out again that I think the DUP's stance on this has very little to do with policing, and more to do with the obtuse 'no surrender' mentality that wins votes among hard line loyalists.

dlofnep

ArthurF wrote: »

Paisley has said many times that he would like to have Justice & Policing powers in the hands of the Northern Ireland Assembly (& he even reiterated this in his farewell speech just last week) but only if & when Sinn Fein dismantle the IRA Army council, and I say fair enough to Paisley & the DUP for playing hard ball, because if they dont they will possibly go the way of Trimble & the UUP & be pulled apart by Sinn Fein.

Sinn Fein cant have their cake & eat it now, the DUP are not the UUP & I think it only fair that any remnants of the IRA are done away with once & for all "Before" Policing & Justice is actually delivered into the hands of Sinn Fein & the DUP!

Thats fair enough isnt it?

The PIRA has done more than any other paramilitary group in the North. They have disarmed, and are out of the picture which is more than the loyalist paramilitaries have done. Sinn Féin has made tremendous leaps and bounds with their policies.

It's the DUP who have been vetoing at every corner and blocking anything remotely associated with the Irish culture - ie: acht na gaeilge. SF are trying to ensure everything promised at the GFA passes - They have done more than enough to ensure process in the North. This "hard ball" that they are playing is out and out bigotry and childish. Sinn Féin are absolutely 100% right to make a stand. At least someone on this Island has the balls to.

LordSutch

dlofnep wrote: »

The PIRA has done more than any other paramilitary group in the North.

I presume you mean that they have done more 'Murders' than any other paramilitary group in the North :cool:

dlofnep wrote: »

It's the DUP who have been vetoing at every corner and blocking anything remotely associated with the Irish culture - ie: acht na gaeilge.

Or maybe blocking the planned Storemont celebration by Sinn Fein of IRA Bomber Miread Farrell :cool:

dlofnep wrote: »

SF are trying to ensure everything promised at the GFA passes - They have done more than enough to ensure process in the North. This "hard ball" that they are playing is out and out bigotry and childish. Sinn Féin are absolutely 100% right to make a stand. At least someone on this Island has the balls to.

Sinn Fein cannot expect to be in Government & retain the IRA Army Council, and anyway, its all a bit accademic now (Thursday/5th) because it looks like Sinn Fein have backed down, & Peter Robinson will indeed be crowned 'First Minister' of the Northern Ireland executive later today ~ fingers crossed.

baztard

ArthurF wrote: »

... anyway, its all a bit accademic now (Thursday/5th) because it looks like Sinn Fein have backed down, & Peter Robinson will indeed be crowned 'First Minister' of the Northern Ireland executive later today ~ fingers crossed.

Any ideas what, if any concessions Sinn Féin got from the DUP ? I get the impression that whatever happened is being kept very secerative.

LordSutch

I dont know if concessions were made by either Party, but apparently any outstanding issues will be discussed & thrashed out with the Prime Minister tomorrow (friday).

dlofnep

ArthurF wrote: »

I presume you mean that they have done more 'Murders' than any other paramilitary group in the North :cool:

It's irrelevant. They have stood down to allow for the peace process to take effect, and your cheap pops won't change that one bit.

ArthurF wrote: »

Or maybe blocking the planned Storemont celebration by Sinn Fein of IRA Bomber Miread Farrell :cool:

What has that got to do with blocking of important issues such as Acht na Gaeilge & devolution? I see you're conveniently running around the issues at hand and trying to relay them elsewhere. Fact of the matter is the DUP are trying to boycott Irish culture and equality for all. There is certainly an element of bigotry alive in the DUP today It was all fine and well when it was agreed in the good friday agreement - but when it comes to the crunch, the DUP don't have what it takes to cater to all demographics of the North. Sinn Féin were making a stand to ensure that the promises made, were to be fulfilled. That's the reality of the situation.

ArthurF wrote: »

Sinn Fein cannot expect to be in Government & retain the IRA Army Council, and anyway, its all a bit accademic now (Thursday/5th) because it looks like Sinn Fein have backed down, & Peter Robinson will indeed be crowned 'First Minister' of the Northern Ireland executive later today ~ fingers crossed.

Newsflash - The IRA and Sinn Féin are two seperate entities. The PIRA has stepped down, they are no longer in the equation. They will dissolve over due course, which is more than I can say for the loyalist paramilitaries.

Sinn Féin didn't "back down" at anything - A meeting with Gordon Brown addressed SF's concerns. They were content with the talks and have decided to press forward to try and make further progress in the North.