12kbps - is this a record?

Fogmatic

I'm looking for people round here with dialup accounts, to see if I can connect the new laptop through them. (If I can, and their connection speeds are higher, that'll be more ammunition for the Eircom complaint).

thebman

There is a free connection monitor tool on sourceforge for windows:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/freemeter/

Don't know how good it is.

Don't have dial up so can't help you unfortunately, also live on the wrong side of the country

Fogmatic

Thanks brim4brim - looked at the website, and FreeMeter looks perfect. It's an application download (as opposed to being at a website). It can do a configurable graph simply of connection speed (as well as download/upload rate etc), and can sit in the system tray or display on the screen (I don't know at what size yet).

It's supposed to be for Windows 2K/XP, but I'll download it on the offchance it'll work with 98SE. It's a nearly 3 hours download at this evening's 9.6kbps, so I'll try in the morning. I've done the prerequisites; downloading & installing the .Net Framework it requires, and Windows Installer, which was required for installing that (I expect they're useful to have anyway).

So fingers crossed.....

thebman

lol, took me a second to download it on my connection.

If its any consulation, the eircom bb in my house was down from 13:30 to about 19:00 today. I know because I get home at quarter to 7 and I left my laptop on with an imap connection to gmail that stopped receiving at that time and it came back up immediately.

Coincidence I think not. Seems to go down at least once a week for a minimum of an hour or so. Don't know what the story is. At least I don't depend on it for work as I can't work from home. It's a brand new estate too. Built in the last year or two so its a brand new line.

Fogmatic

Apparently, everyone's mobile phones were doollally today in our nearest town (Ardara). (Better not mention these events to anyone who goes on about ley lines and other mumbo jumbo!).

I got a line installed last week and tried dialling up on it last night and today. Speeds range between 12k and 16.8k. The internal wiring in the house was replaced but the external line is the same (the line was physically present but dead when I moved in). Sure I've got DSL ordered but I seriously doubt I'll be able to get 3 meg on these line conditions?

Fogmatic

It would be interesting to hear whether it works, Karsini. I for one would like to know, given that Eircom sent me a personally addressed leaflet years ago, congratulating me on broadband now being available to me. They insisted for years that it was, in the face of every other ISP's line test saying otherwise.

I'm on the edge of 2 area codes. The nearest broadband exchange, to which our wire goes, is in the Dungloe area, but Eircom gave us a Donegal area number when we got the phone in. Their website BB availability link just said 'Donegal is enabled for broadband' (vague to say the least), with links to 'order broadband'. I suspect they configured their mailing database in an equally sophisticated manner.

Good luck, and I hope your experience is a better one than mine! It would be interesting (and maybe useful) to know if broadband's possible with lines that do slow dialup speeds, if you posted here when the time comes.

I'll keep you posted. On the day after my line was installed, Eircom's line checker said that the line was suitable for broadband. However I now noticed it's saying "May be suitable; subject to confirmation."

richardw001

I imagine that running Vista with a 12 kbps connection is going to bring you into brave new territory anyway !

Fogmatic

New territory, richardW001? Yes, but with an increasing army of brave pioneers, I should think. Celtic Tiger pushing new computers, versus Celtic Snail in charge of phone lines...
(Not that I ever saw that Celtic Tiger - my theory is it expired in Dublin, still trying to find the N3).

Note to brim4brim; before downloading FreeMeter, I decided a week or 2 back to ask the SourceForge forum if it'll work with 98SE (it doesn't look like it from the site). No replies yet (I have to check for that swiftly, before an unclosable home video window hides half the thread titles - it seems a strange little site).

Judging by my line performance I'm not sure it even reached north of the Liffey!

Here's some stats I found in my modem log. I'm not sure how to interpret most of them though.

Diagnostics
Modem Diagnostics:
Connect Response: ..CONNECT 16800..
Version 1.0
Call Setup Result: Data Answering signal detected
Multi-media mode: Data Only
DTE-DCE interface mode: Async data
V.8 CM octet string: ""
V.8 JM octet string: "U³¸"
Received signal power level (in -dBm): 27
Transmit signal power level (in -dBm): 18
Estimated noise level (in -dBm): 20
Normalized Mean Squared error: 21
Near echo loss: 14 dB
Far echo loss: 47 dB
Far echo delay: 10 ms
Round Trip delay: 10 ms
V.34 INFO bit map: 0x02ee4b10
Transmit Carrier Negotiation Result: V.34
Transmit Carrier symbol rate: 3200
Transmit Carrier frequency: 1920
Receive Carrier Negotiation Result: V.34
Receive Carrier symbol rate: 3200
Receive Carrier frequency: 1920
Initial transmit carrier data rate: 14400
Initial receive carrier data rate: 16800
Temporary carrier loss event count: 0
Carrier Rate re-negotiation event count: 0
Carrier Retrains requested: 0
Carrier Retrain requests granted: 0
Final transmit carrier rate: 14400
Final receive carrier rate: 16800
Protocol Negotiation Result: V.42 LAPM
Error control frame size: 128
Error control link timeouts: 0
Error control link NAKs: 0
Compression Negotiation Result: V.42bis
Compression dictionary size: 2048
Transmit flow control: V.24 ckt 106/133
Receive flow control: V.24 ckt 106/133
Transmit characters sent from DTE: 375
Received characters sent to DTE: 173
Transmit characters lost (data overrun errors from DTE): 0
Received characters lost (data overrun errors to DTE): 0
Transmit Frame count: 12
Received Frame count: 8
Transmit Frame error count: 3
Received Frame error count: 0
Termination Cause: CCT108 Turned Off
Call Waiting event count: 0

thebman

Fogmatic wrote: »

New territory, richardW001? Yes, but with an increasing army of brave pioneers, I should think. Celtic Tiger pushing new computers, versus Celtic Snail in charge of phone lines...
(Not that I ever saw that Celtic Tiger - my theory is it expired in Dublin, still trying to find the N3).

Note to brim4brim; before downloading FreeMeter, I decided a week or 2 back to ask the SourceForge forum if it'll work with 98SE (it doesn't look like it from the site). No replies yet (I have to check for that swiftly, before an unclosable home video window hides half the thread titles - it seems a strange little site).

Ah, the sourceforge forums wouldn't be the best for info. Each forum is project dependant and half the projects are run by individuals who either don't have the time to respond to queries or don't care especially when it comes to Windows (most are Linux guys on sourceforge).

Your probably better off downloading it and running it and hoping for the best. If it doesn't work, just uninstall or delete it. I installed it on Vista and it doesn't seem to have any registry settings so it shouldn't affect the operating system at all.

Worst case scenario it might crash the program or OS but it shouldn't affect anything permanently since it just logs the info to a text file whereever it is run from and doesn't really install anything into the OS.

Fogmatic

Thanks brim4brim - I might just try that. I had reckoned out that the download would take a long time for me, but maybe wrongly. I'll look again (my brain sometimes gets befuddled by troubleshooting).

I'm afraid I'm not sure how to interpret your modem log stats either (or mine for that matter, though they say 'no carrier' every so often, which probably means what I suspect it does!)

Though I haven't studied it yet, I have 'Understanding Your Modem Log' printed out from http://www.modemsite.com/56k/modemlog.asp; a section of log with an expanation of what's happening in it. Though it's aimed at Windows 95/98, I don't think the OS matters, as it all seems to be in the venerable Hayes Command Set, and still the same language in Vista.
I've also printed but not yet studied a translation of the Hayes Command set(s) at
http://docs.kde.org/stable/en/kdenetwork/kppp/appendix-hayes-commands.html.
You might find these things useful (apologies if they don't work as links here - I'm not sure I've got the hang of it!). Or perhaps somebody in the know will see this and get there first with interpreting your log.
I know just enough to be quite envious of your 16,800 carrier rate though! (If it means the same thing as the connection speed displayed by the Windows connection icon).

Fogmatic

For anyone with an oldish Windows version and interested in connection monitors (like FreeMeter, mentioned above), I'm now using Net.Medic (from modemsite.com). It collects a lot of useful info, but if wanted can show just the connection speed (plus little send/receive graph) in a small window in the corner. It was designed for Win95/98, but some people have used it with OSs up to XP It doesn't work with Vista. (I find it quite fun, even if the speed it displays isn't!)
MyVitalAgent (from pcworld.com) is similar.
Both are free downloads (and manageable ones even over my line!).
There may also be connection monitors for XP/Vista.

thebman

Fogmatic wrote: »

For anyone with an oldish Windows version and interested in connection monitors (like FreeMeter, mentioned above), I'm now using Net.Medic (from modemsite.com). It collects a lot of useful info, but if wanted can show just the connection speed (plus little send/receive graph) in a small window in the corner. It was designed for Win98/98, but some people have used it with OSs up to XP It doesn't work with Vista. (I find it quite fun, even if the speed it displays isn't!)
MyVitalAgent (from pcworld.com) is similar.
Both are free downloads (and manageable ones even over my line!).
There may also be connection monitors for XP/Vista.

Freemeter works in Vista Home Premium anyway as I'm running it still because I've not bothered to close it.

Fogmatic

That's useful, brim4brim. I haven't looked yet for other Vista connection monitors, but if there aren't any I'd bet an Irish coder will fill the gap soon!

Since you asked, here's an update on my broadband.

Yesterday was the specified target date for the DSL to be enabled but it came and went with my modem still not syncing. So I phoned BT to see what the story is. They said the order has been stalled at the exchange, at which point the rep retested my line and said it's coming back with an amber pass (which I knew already). In his words the line looks more like one 4-5 miles out in the country than one in inner city Dublin. So he logged a fault and told me to get back to them on Monday in case they have any update.

EDIT: Just rechecked my line a few minutes ago and it's failing outright.

Fogmatic

Oh dear - there are city broadband blackspots as I expect you knew, but what bad luck if you're in one (they must be even worse than rural ones, in that people assume you must be able to get broadband).

Does 'amber' mean borderline?

Whatever the outcome re broadband, you might be interested in filing a formal complaint to Eircom, regardless of who your ISP is (it's a seperate procedure from reporting a fault to your ISP). Eircom's supposed to provide 'functional internet access', ie 29.8kbps minimum. Complaints to Eircom can be made online or in writing, as described elsewhere in this forum (but Eircom's online form only allows 400 characters max, which doesn't seem much room!)

Keeping my fingers crossed for you.....

That's interesting, has the "functional internet access" threshold been raised to 28.8? Last I knew it was 9.6!

Yeah an amber pass usually means there's some problem with the line, you can proceed with the order but an engineer might need to call out or you may be limited to 1 meg.

Fogmatic

I was alerted to the 'functional internet access' business by this thread;
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055140954&highlight=Eircom+reason+lack
(the background, where to complain etc).

I'll be doing it in writing (recorded delivery while I'm at it). Although Eircom says to include its account number when complaining online, there's no compulsory box for it (so it's usable whoever your ISP is. However, it only allows 400 characters maximum, which isn't enough for me!
I don't know if it always gets the individual situation improved, but the more complaints they get the merrier!

Speaking of which, while I'm at it I'm also trying to look into the legal (defamation-wise) side of making a complaint an open letter (by putting it in this forum, which would constitute publishing).
I won't be going away easily!

My broadband order is still going nowhere so I logged a fault with Eircom but they said that because my line rental is with BT I need to go through them. So I called BT and logged the fault, stating the line is connecting lower than 28.8k on dialup and therefore does not meet the standard laid out in directive 05/70. Got a call back from them a few hours later claiming that their remote tests passed, the line "is in working order" and a technician wouldn't have anything to go on if he called out. He then said the line is showing red and I can't get DSL service on it. They've been doing nothing but fobbing me off, the rep didn't seem to know anything about the 28.8k minimum. I'm thinking of going down the Comreg route but I'm not too hopeful of that either.

kleefarr

Fogmatic wrote: »

At least, that's the dialup speed I'm getting most of the time (when it isn't 12, it's 9.6).

I'm not whining, just curious (luckily for me, a local company's wireless BB masts have recently come within sight).
Can anyone better that speed? Who knows, a national competition might just embarrass Eircoma - sorry, Eircom - into wakefulness. Can anyone suggest a prize? (Or maybe the satisfaction would be enough).

I've often had 0Kbps in the last couple of months.

Fogmatic

Right (having finally found the time); one complaint off to Eircom, signed, sealed and probably delivered tomorrow.
I thought of attaching it here, but still haven't managed to find out if there'd be any defamation issue with that (anybody know?) I should think Eircom can afford lawyers (what with all of of us on phone lines paying the full whack of rental). Business experiences have encouraged me (to put it nicely) to check the law side of things, and there's no legal aid for defamation.

I didn't say when their 10 days to remedy things started (call it spite if you like!), but I'll give them 10 days from receiving the letter (a delivery date is another plus of registered post).

You have my sympathy, Karsini, and everyone else's I'm sure. I saw your thread about the split line saga too. One reaction less likely in this forum is surprise!

Eircom were right to say you had to log the fault through BT, as your contract would be with BT (ISPs act as collectors for Eircom's line rental). As you haven't had the line for long (in terms of bureaucracy anyway), the air might not have cleared yet enough for arrangements to be obvious. I don't know who your contract to put the phone in was with, but any changes take some time to filter through. When I changed ISP/phone provider from Eircom to UTV, it took me about 6 months to get Eircom to tie up the financial ends and declare their account closed (I think there was a refund from Eircom, for the bit of time when the 2 ISPs' billing months overlapped)

Logging faults via UTV hasn't been any problem for me, and I prefer it to dealing directly with Eircom. UTV have been very prompt and understanding ('I'll just test your line - right, logging it with Eircom straight away'). Their computer seems to bring up a picture of my fault report history straight away, plus other reports in the area, and their progress & results. It's when Eircom's customer services ring, after the engineers have done the work, that I feel frustrated. They usually say 'Is your line all right now?' (You tell me! You've got the line tester, and I'm obviously not using the internet at the moment, as I'm talking to you.....)
Was it BT's or Eircom's remote test that passed?
If BT didn't know about Comreg etc, it might be that they're not as seasoned yet in the ways of Eircom as UTV is.

For making a formal complaint about a phone line, Eircom's the first port of call, and Comreg etc comes later. There are details in the thread 'Eircom reason for lack of BB in my area', currently on page 3 of this forum (I would have pasted the link, but my clipboard's currently occupied by this posting; it's become a time-saving habit because of disconnections!)

Well, kleefarr, either we're getting into metaphysical territory or you've won hands down. (Any negative connection speeds achieved by anyone?)

Well I think I might finally be getting somewhere, fingers crossed! I don't know what the BT rep was on about regarding remote tests, I personally think I was just being fobbed off. Later that night I sent an e-mail to someone high up (probably shouldn't mention any names) and explained the situation, attaching a photo of the dodgy joint in the line. She e-mailed me yesterday morning to confirm receipt of it and that afternoon I got a call from BT, again the e-mail was acknowledged and I was given a direct line to contact them on.

Then today I got another call back saying that Eircom claimed they fixed the problem on my line (they said something about excessive noise). I was at home at the time so he asked me to try dialling up while he was on the call (he was on my mobile obviously) and it still connected at 16.8. So he's getting back to Eircom again. He agreed that a line in this area shouldn't be performing so badly and while he wasn't aware of the Comreg directive he said he would try to log a fault under it, I had sent them a link to the PDF file on their website.

I feel a bit more optimistic now though, seems I've gotten through to people who are willing to help me!

Regarding the 0k connection it could be the way XP reports connections, in kilobits rather than bits. It could be connecting as low as 300 bps which XP would probably show as 0.

Just when you think things are getting better something else comes around to slap you in the face. Got a call today to say that Eircom rejected the broadband order, claiming that the line is unsuitable for broadband. They don't seem to be willing to "bear the risk" of repairing it either. So here I am with the only option available to me being Clearwire, Ripwave or 3G, none of which should even be classified as "broadband" to me.

Fogmatic

Glad there's some kind of hope now, Karsini (it is remarkable how an issue can suddenly get through to an organisation, if it's via the right person!)

I don't know whether the Comreg directive would be relevant to logging a fault with the line - I only know that it's next step Comreg, if Eircom don't respond within 10 days to a formal complaint direct from the customer (in which case we customers contact Comreg).

Our phone line was dead on Tuesday, and I logged it (via UTV). It went dead again yesterday evening, so rang UTV again (whoever invented mobiles should be celebrated!). The fault was still 'open' from Tuesday, and UTV ascertained the engineers were due out today. I've just got a dialling tone, so I'm catching up with phone-line things in case it goes dead again (well, it hasn't really rained for an hour or so here!)

At least if it goes dead again I might be spared Eircom ringing to say 'Is your phone line all right?' (Ha Ha - hoist by their own petard!)

Fogmatic

I've only just seen your new posting, Karsini; I wrote mine mostly offline because of diconnections (must be raining down the road).

What very bad luck, especially after that saga (it must have been quite an emotional rollercoaster).

There might be some satellite BB crowd in Germany or somewhere, that Ireland is just within range of (I'll try and post some links later - must make some phone calls, and there are clouds coming!)

SkepticOne

Karsini wrote: »

Just when you think things are getting better something else comes around to slap you in the face. Got a call today to say that Eircom rejected the broadband order, claiming that the line is unsuitable for broadband. They don't seem to be willing to "bear the risk" of repairing it either. So here I am with the only option available to me being Clearwire, Ripwave or 3G, none of which should even be classified as "broadband" to me.

Have you tried any of those? Although they fall well short of modern broadband offerings they certainly beat dial-up for the most part especially the sort of sub-dialup performance you are getting. I would probably go for 3G over the other two personally. I think one of the reasons Eircom is so rubbish (such as in your case) is that people are willing to stick with them to the very last.

UPC previously said they weren't available in my area but I had received a letter through the door last week about a network upgrade so I tried again this evening. They said that the upgrade would be complete after Christmas and I could get broadband then. So I might just choose O2 Clear 30 day for the moment and cancel it when UPC is available.

The question is, will I be forced to keep the phone line due to contracts? I signed up for BT Broadband and Talk option 2 and they can't provide the service I signed up for - in which case I should theoretically be able to cancel it without penalty but who knows.

Fogmatic

Have you searched this site for BT broadband/Talk, in case your question's already answered somewhere? If it isn't, a new thread might work.

I can't lay my hands on the info I kept about individual European satellite broadband companies (and it would be a year out of date), but if you haven't already checked out Damian Mulley's article about broadband choices in Ireland, it could be useful; it's at http://www.mulley.net/2006/02/09/broadband-choices-in-ireland/
He points out the article's due for an update, but the comments, questions & answers that follow it are still going strong.
Just thought I'd mention; in case you assume (as I did once) that Sky satellite TV's broadband addition is an option, it wasn't available in Ireland when I asked them last year, and it's also not beamed from a satellite but through the phone line (their TV service itself needs a phone line, but only so their box can send them the correct info for billing, for which they said even my even my phone line would suffice).

I've had my own little rollercoaster here, re local wireless broadband being available, then not a few times over. That's just had a happy ending (for now); it was installed today, and I saw my laptop connecting to the internet for the first time in about 5 months. I don't know at what speed yet; I disconnected pretty sharpish, as I haven't got the security software or Windows updates sorted yet. It felt unlucky to talk about the BB too soon!
It's a very local scheme that does (up to of course) 2K down & 512mb up, for €100 installation, and €25 a month.
However.....a landowner might be forcing the mast to move a bit further away, so I could be losing the signal soon.....