Getting started in motocross? HELP!

Plug

I posted the same thing on motocross.ie.

Hello lads, Im new around here so go easy please:o
Right its like this, I used to drive rc trucks now I want to able to go fast but be able to sit down doing it! Motocross bikes sounds like fun so i said I'll give that a shot but not for another good while.
I need a few questions answered.

1)Im looking at either a Suzuki rm250 or a rmz250, 2 stroke or 4 stroke? I looked at prices and it seems 4 stroke are cheaper, i can't understand that since a 4 stroke is more complex than a 2 stroke. also I heard 4 stroke require a lot more maintenance and are more expensive to
run. i'm not made of money so what do you think I should aim for out of them 2 bikes?

2)If I get a bike im going to break things like everyone else so what's the availability of parts for suzuki in Ireland? and are they expensive?

3)Looking after the bikes, maintenance wise? Im an apprentice car mechanic so hopefully that will come in handy. I presume theres a bung for the engine oil and transmission oil at the bottom. I suppose the airfilter should be handy to replace. Thats just servicing, what about everything else like a transmission or engine problem I suppose there not too bad?

I won't be getting a bike till late this year or at the latest early next year, I know its a long time but I need to save and get my head right. i'll be 20 when Im going, thats not to late to start I hope!
There just the main questions I need answering, I'd be great full if you do answer.
cheers lads;)

bitemybanger

First off, your arse wont be in the seat much in moto+:D (walking before running an all that)
I defo wouldnt start with a 250 especially a 2-stroke one
as far as being a car mechanic, bikes are completly different but are fairly simple to work on, hardest job on a moto+ bike being piston and rings or gear problems.
My advice to you is to buy a Honda CR125 as you can pick one up very cheap (cheaper up north), parts are cheap as long as thier standard parts, its when you get into race spec stuff it starts to burn a hole, thier relitivly easy to work with and they go like stink plus the honda reliability, they take serious abuse.

Plug

bitemybanger wrote: »

First off, your arse wont be in the seat much in moto+:D (walking before running an all that)
I defo wouldnt start with a 250 especially a 2-stroke one
as far as being a car mechanic, bikes are completly different but are fairly simple to work on, hardest job on a moto+ bike being piston and rings or gear problems.
My advice to you is to buy a Honda CR125 as you can pick one up very cheap (cheaper up north), parts are cheap as long as thier standard parts, its when you get into race spec stuff it starts to burn a hole, thier relitivly easy to work with and they go like stink plus the honda reliability, they take serious abuse.

Would a 250cc 4 stroke be easier? suzuki, I wouldn't go for a Honda, don't like red:p:D i'd prefer to go with something more powerful than 125.

Plug

anyone more help lads, surely theres some motocross riders on boards?

bitemybanger

Sorry Plug, missed your last post:o
There is very good reason lots of people go for hondas(if thats what you mean by the not liking red part??)
and a 2 stroke 125 has plenty of power for a novice and are just as quick round a track. if your looking just to go fast from one end of a grassy field to the other a 250 4-stroke would be ideal, lots of low end torque and will go all day but thats not motocross.

Plug

bitemybanger wrote: »

Sorry Plug, missed your last post:o
There is very good reason lots of people go for hondas(if thats what you mean by the not liking red part??)
and a 2 stroke 125 has plenty of power for a novice and are just as quick round a track. if your looking just to go fast from one end of a grassy field to the other a 250 4-stroke would be ideal, lots of low end torque and will go all day but thats not motocross.

I was talking to a few lads on another forum and they said all the jap bikes are the same, "same reliability just choose the colour you like". A few of them said that.
I'm after narrowing it down to 125cc 2 stroke or a 250 4 stroke. Preferably a Suzuki. The only thing now is maintenance, Could you tell me the difference between the 2?

Timmaay

Plug wrote: »

I was talking to a few lads on another forum and they said all the jap bikes are the same, "same reliability just choose the colour you like". A few of them said that.
I'm after narrowing it down to 125cc 2 stroke or a 250 4 stroke. Preferably a Suzuki. The only thing now is maintenance, Could you tell me the difference between the 2?

Are ya thinking of buying new or second hand? If second hand, 2T (2stroke) are much better from a maintaince point of view. You have to do a bit more frequent work with a 2t, the piston needs to be changed about every 30hrs (much less if you're a flatout 15yr old lunatic whos raced all your life!), and the bottom end bearing can seize every so often (once a yr). but these are both small enough problems, a new piston kit costs €100, and a bottom end rebuild €150. 4Ts differ in that you can happly put 60hrs on one (some lads risk 100hrs!) with only having to check the valve clearance, before you have to change the piston/timing chain. Of course 4Ts are more complicated and if you buy a 2nd hand one that is badly maintained and has silly hrs there is a good chance of her dropping a valve etc, with a resulting €2000 repair bill!

Shameless plug to our mx website: www.flatout.ie

Plug

Timmaay wrote: »

Are ya thinking of buying new or second hand? If second hand, 2T (2stroke) are much better from a maintaince point of view. You have to do a bit more frequent work with a 2t, the piston needs to be changed about every 30hrs (much less if you're a flatout 15yr old lunatic whos raced all your life!), and the bottom end bearing can seize every so often (once a yr). but these are both small enough problems, a new piston kit costs €100, and a bottom end rebuild €150. 4Ts differ in that you can happly put 60hrs on one (some lads risk 100hrs!) with only having to check the valve clearance, before you have to change the piston/timing chain. Of course 4Ts are more complicated and if you buy a 2nd hand one that is badly maintained and has silly hrs there is a good chance of her dropping a valve etc, with a resulting €2000 repair bill!

Shameless plug to our mx website: www.flatout.ie

In that case it would be a 2 stroke i'll go for. i saw a videos on youtube about changing the pistons and other things and 2 stroke are alot handier to do and I'm guessing cheaper.
I was looking at prices between rmz250's and rm125's and the 2 stroke seem to be dearer. is there a reason?

Hornswoggle

Dont go for a Suzuki, unreliable and dont hold their value well.

I have a 1991 Honda CR125, 2005 Yamaha YZ125 and 2007 Honda CR250R (all two strokes) so am obviously going to be a bit biased on the two smokers, but DONT go for a four stroke as your first motocross bike!!!

Maintainence-wise four strokes are much more expensive to repair.Blow the engine in a four stroke and it will cost you €1K plus to have fixed, while a two stroker would only cost €500. In addition they need extra maintainence such as valve re-cuts and constant oil changes.

Put it this way. My mate had a Honda CR125 from new for three years. He only changed the piston once, tyres once and never had trouble with it. This year he has bought a lightly used 2007 KTM SXF250 Four stroke and the bike has give him nothing but trouble. My advice to you would be to buy a 125cc two stroke bike (yamaha YZ is the best), and learn how to ride that properly before even considering a two stroke 250! As you are completely new to the sport, the last thing you need to be doing is maintaining the thing all the time and not actually getting in some riding!

You can get a 2006 YZ125 for under €3K now and there are plenty of them on the market too. Another thing i would say is that if you learn your trade on a 2 stroke bike first, you will be a much better rider than if you just jump straight onto a four stroke.As the two strokes are lighter, they are also better for learning how to jump on.

The lads over on www.motocross.ie are very helpful. Best website out there if youre thinking of starting...

Plug

I'm going to get a 125 2 stroke. But I still think im going to go for a Suzuki. I have searched high and low on the internet and youtube and only a few have downed Suzuki, most people say the opposite to you. They are both reliable apparently.
i was talking to a few lads on the site you gave me. No problem to Suzuki either.
Quick question: Is the engine oil and transmission oil the same on a 2 stroke?

Hotblack Desiato

Hornswoggle wrote: »

Put it this way. My mate had a Honda CR125 from new for three years. He only changed the piston once, tyres once and never had trouble with it. This year he has bought a lightly used 2007 KTM SXF250 Four stroke and the bike has give him nothing but trouble.

Maybe that wasn't because it's a four-stroke, but because it's a KTM :eek:


Plug: the engine oil on a 2-stroke is a special type, in its own tank, and gets injected into the engine and burned. (I presume pre-mix is long gone, where you'd have to mix the oil in with the petrol...) If you run out of oil or use the wrong oil it will seize the engine. The gearbox has its own oil (usually same type as 4-stroke engine oil) and you have to drain and replace this every so often.

Plug

ninja900 wrote: »

Maybe that wasn't because it's a four-stroke, but because it's a KTM :eek:


Plug: the engine oil on a 2-stroke is a special type, in its own tank, and gets injected into the engine and burned. (I presume pre-mix is long gone, where you'd have to mix the oil in with the petrol...) If you run out of oil or use the wrong oil it will seize the engine. The gearbox has its own oil (usually same type as 4-stroke engine oil) and you have to drain and replace this every so often.

I read it has to replaced fairly often, does the oil filter have to be replaced as well? Are they expensive? cheers.

Timmaay

ninja900 wrote: »

Maybe that wasn't because it's a four-stroke, but because it's a KTM :eek:

Nothing at all wrong with recent ktm mx bikes, they are known to have the most power, good in the tight corners and the 07/08 4 strokes are very reliable, I know real quick lads who rev the nuts of them getting 100hrs trouble free (by which time a crf could have munched 2 sets of valves).

ninja900 wrote: »

Plug: the engine oil on a 2-stroke is a special type, in its own tank, and gets injected into the engine and burned. (I presume pre-mix is long gone, where you'd have to mix the oil in with the petrol...) If you run out of oil or use the wrong oil it will seize the engine. The gearbox has its own oil (usually same type as 4-stroke engine oil) and you have to drain and replace this every so often.

Nope, we still have to premix the 2 stroke oil into the petrol, pain in the ass if you get mixed up with petrol cans, or forget to put in the 2T oil .

The gearbox oil should be changed after EVERY 2/3 rides! it only takes a litre of oil, it gets broken down quick, and seeing as you only replacing a litre every time its not exacty a big expense! 2ts dont need an oil filter, one less thing to bother with! I never bothered putting fully synthenic oil in the gearbox in my yz125 last yr, 4Ts have to get fully syn as the oil lubs the camshaft/piston also.

I'd second that comment about look at an 06 yz125, there are lots around for under €3k, they are a great bike, parts are easy to get as there is no real different between 05-09 yz125s. If you have to have a yellow bike, you can easly get yellow plastics for it (€90 for a full set!), and a set of yellow yamaha retro graphics! Something like this baby:

Plug

Timmaay wrote: »

Nothing at all wrong with recent ktm mx bikes, they are known to have the most power, good in the tight corners and the 07/08 4 strokes are very reliable, I know real quick lads who rev the nuts of them getting 100hrs trouble free (by which time a crf could have munched 2 sets of valves).




Nope, we still have to premix the 2 stroke oil into the petrol, pain in the ass if you get mixed up with petrol cans, or forget to put in the 2T oil .

The gearbox oil should be changed after EVERY 2/3 rides! it only takes a litre of oil, it gets broken down quick, and seeing as you only replacing a litre every time its not exacty a big expense! 2ts dont need an oil filter, one less thing to bother with! I never bothered putting fully synthenic oil in the gearbox in my yz125 last yr, 4Ts have to get fully syn as the oil lubs the camshaft/piston also.

I'd second that comment about look at an 06 yz125, there are lots around for under €3k, they are a great bike, parts are easy to get as there is no real different between 05-09 yz125s. If you have to have a yellow bike, you can easly get yellow plastics for it (€90 for a full set!), and a set of yellow yamaha retro graphics! Something like this baby:

Right sure I'll get a suzuki or yamaha which ever one is cheaper and better at the time. feck the colour then! Ok then so 2 strokes have no oil filters, thats handy! What kind of oil do you put in the transmission and is it expensive stuff?
The airfilter will be handy, just clean it under the tap?
are they yamaha or suzuki dealers in ireland where I can get parts?
And is this timmay from motocross.ie?
cheers lads.

Timmaay

I use put normal 10w40 engine oil in, some lads say use proper (and expensive) motorbike only oil, but I never had any problems. I've heard the only difference is engine oil could possibly cause you clutch to slip, but I abused my clutch in the yz125 a fair bit (clutching it to stay on the powerband). It's far more important just to drop the oil regularly!

Air filters are a bit of a pain in the arse to clean, you need to desolve the airfilter oil in petrol/diesel/tinners firstly, then clean it in water, finally dry it. What I do is get 4 air filters (they only cost a €10, and last about 2yrs), and clean them all at once, in a bucket of diesel, that is good for several washes.

Best place for parts is Russells up north, he does overnight delivery to here. But I get 90% of my parts from the states, they are about 1/2 the price of here. I use ebay, yamahaoftroy.com and metricdirect.com, all 3 take about 3wks delivery, not very usefully if a part breaks and you're racing the following wk, but most parts thay you need are maintance parts, such as pistons, brake pads, chains etc.

I'd say feck the colour, I have a white yammy 250f at the minute, its only about €200 total to get new plastics/graphics: http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=backstraightlowresmn0.jpg
Actually that yellow yammy I posted before does look class, I think they might be my next graphics

Plug

Timmaay wrote: »

I use put normal 10w40 engine oil in, some lads say use proper (and expensive) motorbike only oil, but I never had any problems. I've heard the only difference is engine oil could possibly cause you clutch to slip, but I abused my clutch in the yz125 a fair bit (clutching it to stay on the powerband). It's far more important just to drop the oil regularly!

Thats all lovely then, I have access to about 2000 litres of engine oil, can get it dirt cheap:D how many hours before changing oil?

Air filters are a bit of a pain in the arse to clean, you need to desolve the airfilter oil in petrol/diesel/tinners firstly, then clean it in water, finally dry it. What I do is get 4 air filters (they only cost a €10, and last about 2yrs), and clean them all at once, in a bucket of diesel, that is good for several washes.

Was thinking the same get about 3 or 4, have them there handy. do you have to put airfilter oil on them?

Best place for parts is Russells up north, he does overnight delivery to here. But I get 90% of my parts from the states, they are about 1/2 the price of here. I use ebay, yamahaoftroy.com and metricdirect.com, all 3 take about 3wks delivery, not very usefully if a part breaks and you're racing the following wk, but most parts thay you need are maintance parts, such as pistons, brake pads, chains etc.

I was looking for a few american places and found bike bandit but they don't ship here:( What parts to you recommend I keep handy? Pads and a few air filters anyway.

I'd say feck the colour, I have a white yammy 250f at the minute, its only about €200 total to get new plastics/graphics: http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=backstraightlowresmn0.jpg
Actually that yellow yammy I posted before does look class, I think they might be my next graphics

Yeah i saw your bike on motocross.ie looks delicious:D If i ended up getting a blue yammy it will be white like yours with a few nice decals on her:cool:
Right thanks a million for answering all the questions, your fingers must be sore at this stage.

Timmaay

Plug wrote: »

Right thanks a million for answering all the questions, your fingers must be sore at this stage.

, You have no idea! I'm going out on the bike tomorrow in gormo for the 1st time in a while, I'll know all about sore fingers after that, motocross really pulls the arms off ya, I've done some practice days where I get 6/7 20min session in, I can't even lift my fingers off the handlebars after them! So, no, typing isn't a problem