"GLuas" to be unveiled for Galway

reganovich

Have to say a Luas is a much better idea...simple as this in Dublin the bus's are a Joke the luas tho wont let you down.No traffic to stop it

pointofnoreturn

reganovich wrote: »

Have to say a Luas is a much better idea...simple as this in Dublin the bus's are a Joke the luas tho wont let you down.No traffic to stop it

once you see a luas over take you while sitting in traffic, then everyone that can use it will, much nice to be able to sit in a train and read then stress out sitting in traffic!
And to start we got the new IC train from Dublin to Galway, not sure how long they have been in service here, but only in the last few months i guess

Ckal

pointofnoreturn wrote: »

once you see a luas over take you while sitting in traffic, then everyone that can use it will, much nice to be able to sit in a train and read then stress out sitting in traffic!
And to start we got the new IC train from Dublin to Galway, not sure how long they have been in service here, but only in the last few months i guess

Yeah, I got one of the new trains in the summer. Twas nice!

GLuas would be great. I know Galway doesn't have the population, so numbers may be an issue. But Galway's layout is awful and I think people would take the tram to get from a to b quickly instead of sitting in traffic jams every day.

galwayrush

Since 200 Million appears to be small change to a Goverment who are willing to back up the Banks to a tune of 400 Billion ( and making the people with shares in the banks like the banks directors even richer) I loook forward to an anouncement of funding any day now..............soon........................................................come on now, it's small money............................... err anyone in Goverment listening?.......................................

amacachi

galwayrush wrote: »

Since 200 Million appears to be small change to a Goverment who are willing to back up the Banks to a tune of 400 Billion ( and making the people with shares in the banks like the banks directors even richer) I loook forward to an anouncement of funding any day now..............soon........................................................come on now, it's small money............................... err anyone in Goverment listening?.......................................

That's hilarious.

Chris_533976

PROTECT THE ALIGNMENTS but dont build this nonsense at the moment. For gods sake, €50million into the buses as well as a REALISTIC transport plan (including Outer bypass, Bishop O Donnell road dualling, suburban feeder buses, dual tracking to Athenry, P&Rs etc etc) and you'll do far better than this kneejerk "WE WANT A LUAS" bull**** thats infested Galway.

BluntGuy

Gotta agree with Chris.

It would be lovely if Galway could have its Gluas built. But it's WAY WAY too soon.

They should, as I said before, lay out strategic corridors for each of lines and then try and encourage development in the areas it will serve. In 10 or 15 years time, perhaps, construction can begin...

I'm not anti-Galway or anything. But I think that the 200 million (if they have it) can be better spent on bettering bus services and improving roads and cycle paths.

If all cities started this kind of a campaign for Luas (I'm sure there are people who are already considering it), then we'd get no-where.

You cannot compare Galway, Cork, Limerick and Waterford to Dublin. There is no comparison. The greater Dublin area has 1.5 million residents, concentrated in a much smaller area. It is only right that they get priority when it comes to certain transport development.

That said, regional cities should have good public transport as well. Cork and Waterford's bus services are a disgrace (never tried Galway's and Limerick's, but I presume they're not that much better).

pointofnoreturn

Chris_533976 wrote: »

PROTECT THE ALIGNMENTS but dont build this nonsense at the moment. For gods sake, €50million into the buses as well as a REALISTIC transport plan (including Outer bypass, Bishop O Donnell road dualling, suburban feeder buses, dual tracking to Athenry, P&Rs etc etc) and you'll do far better than this kneejerk "WE WANT A LUAS" bull**** thats infested Galway.

is'nt improving the bus service in Galway, + a dual rail line to Athenry and Western corridor part of this Transport21, like i don't see the GLuas plans distracting any of this,

Apart from all this, we are looking for a new public transport network, not just train's trams, buses, etc..

Nostradamus

pointofnoreturn wrote: »

is'nt improving the bus service in Galway, + a dual rail line to Athenry and Western corridor part of this Transport21, like i don't see the GLuas plans distracting any of this,

Apart from all this, we are looking for a new public transport network, not just train's trams, buses, etc..

The thing is I do not expect the passenger numbers on the WRC to be anything other than a disaster. The new commuter service from Nenagh to Limerick is carrying as little as 6 passengers a day on some services. This is even worse than the most cycnical expected. In typical fashion numbers were pulled from the ether, the "commuters" showed up to take a few photos and to "see the new train yoke!" the first week, and then the magic waned. The trainspotters got their photos and the Irish taxpayers are left with the bill and a piece of rolling stock which could be utilised in a part of the coutry were there is demand. This is an asset being wasted carrying a handful of people between Nenagh and Limerick and I would wager a lot of them are on free travel passes as well.

Now considering the WRC is a logistical dinosaur involving a switchback operation at Athenry I cannot see it pulling in the numbers at all. The double tracking between Athenry and Galway city will do nothing to resolve the Peruvian Switchback nature of the WRC. Add the economic downturn on top of that. It's not pretty is it. And this is the only part of the WRC which has any potential.

The fact is that a lot of the West of Ireland rail plans are bourne out of the anglocentric fantasy of deluded trainspotters more than plugging a gap in the region's public transport market.

A light rail for Galway city would be very different than the WRC in that it will get passenger numbers to justify the expense rather than the inital opening day orgasm of trainspotters and years of grannies on free travel passes for decades to come.

Zoney

Nostradamus:

If you think "trainspotters" are of any influence at all in having Ennis-Athenry reopened and proper services to Nenagh, I think you're probably quite deluded. I mean really - how on earth can anyone bring out that line with a straight face. One can barely even say it was pandering to voters either, with politicians not even pushing themselves to do that a lot of the time, and these projects not being that much of interest to many people.

It is about improving transport options. The fact is that a commuter service to Nenagh should work - there are enough people using the main N7 just from Nenagh every day. Similarly, with the Limerick-Galway bus route being so busy, there is ample room for a train service. It's about providing a better service - the bus is not a choice that some people will take at all at all. It is also slower than the train will be, due to getting stuck in traffic at either end. The new motorway will also mean a longer route for the bus, plus diversions into the towns - and the bus will not be getting the advantage of the 120km/h limit.

The only reason these have happened before the critically needed projects in say the Dublin area is that the latter require political will that isn't there (particularly it seems the politicians in Meath), and large chunks of money. The midwest projects were relatively cheap to execute, a tiny amount compared to for example, the Navan rail link. Even if the Navan link is more important.

dowlingm

Zoney wrote: »

The fact is that a commuter service to Nenagh should work - there are enough people using the main N7 just from Nenagh every day.

Especially now that Proctor and Gamble is closed. However, the trains must be as fast if not faster than buses and cars and that's not the case Nenagh-Limerick. Also, one of the major centres of employment between Nenagh and Limerick, Plassey Tech Park-UL, has no convenient transfer to the railway without a hike backwards into town because there is no incentive for IE to cooperate with BE in providing such a transfer.

Similarly, with the Limerick-Galway bus route being so busy, there is ample room for a train service. It's about providing a better service - the bus is not a choice that some people will take at all at all. It is also slower than the train will be, due to getting stuck in traffic at either end. The new motorway will also mean a longer route for the bus, plus diversions into the towns - and the bus will not be getting the advantage of the 120km/h limit.

Two points here.

One - the route. Nobody can force BE to use the new motorway if the existing road is shorter and more in keeping with the bus speed limit, and the bus also benefits from serving Shannon which the train doesn't.

Two - the bus scores because its frequency allows people to choose their time of departure. Journey time isn't the same as station to station time. If I go to Limerick station and I have to wait two hours for a train and one hour for a bus, nothing short of a bullet train will get me to Galway faster than that bus.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - my bet is that passengers on trains arriving into Athenry on the WRC will be connecting to Dublin trains in far greater numbers than heading into Galway.

Chris_533976

Plus the buses serve the towns ANYWAY, both Citylink and Bus Eireann largely wont use the motorway.

Citylink come off at Ennis and rejoin, then in the future will probably come off at Gort and rejoin, then will definately come off at Kilteirnan and use the old road from there.

pointofnoreturn

Limerick to Galway, Vi Athenry will gain allot of passengers over time, once it is faster then by car or bus, it also has to cost less for a person, even for one to park and ride from Ennis and work in Galway city, any of the options have to make connections where you only wait less then 10mins, + frequent services, reliable.

For a regional train on the new WRC gain better time , i only hope they plan to run the train avg 160km/h, anything less will not impress people, for Intercity they got to reach 200km/s at best, and i think this is planned from Dublin - Cork route, all in all, it will take people time to become confident in the service and move from their own travel patterns to public transport.

Chris_533976

160 on the WRC???

We'll be lucky if they make 80 or 100 looking at the state of the track

gjim

pointofnoreturn wrote: »

For a regional train on the new WRC gain better time , i only hope they plan to run the train avg 160km/h,

:D:D 160km/h average? Through all those level crossings and around bends and up and down hills, switchbacks, etc.? In a commuter class DMU? I'll politely stand aside and let you ride the first one! :D It'd be in the air before it get's to Corbally!

I can see that informed strategic thinking on transport in the West is alive and well.

Cool Mo D

I believe the line is supposed to be designed to 100 kmh speed. That sounds like an extremely optimistic figure, since the Limerick-Ennis train which runs on a portion of the route takes 40 mins. Expect 1.5 hrs or thereabouts Galway-Limerick. 160 kmh isn't even feasible enough to be called a pipe dream.

pointofnoreturn

If Irishrail aren't prepared to put at least the effort of rebuilding the WRC for scale over the next few years then what is the point of it! across Europe taking trains is the fastest means of transport (excluding flying, because you've got checkin times, etc..)

As i said for it to work in west, it has to be fast, cost-effective and more then likely won't break even for a few years in operating costs as people will still drive their cars for a few years before the service will gain the trust

We see in the news that the Minister says all will go to plan, but it's question of when, deferring everything until this recession is over is the stupidest idea one could do! (i think) like now is the time a country should build infrastructure, over-engineer so that when demand hit's we will be ready, and it will also attract industry to develop in the west

dowlingm

pointofnoreturn wrote: »

If Irishrail aren't prepared to put at least the effort of rebuilding the WRC for scale over the next few years then what is the point of it!

Because they haven't been given the resources to do that.

They were (probably) told by the national politicians - reopen the line at minimum cost. The RSC (probably) told them - any money you've got better go on safety. The local politicians (probably) said - our complaints won't stop until every cattle loading halt gets its platform rebuilt and never mind that it will add costs and delays - just make it so the developers plopping box houses into small villages can market a train service.

If IE were serious about the WRC, they would have mandated only one stop between Ennis and Athenry (Gort) and entirely rebuilt the alignment to a standard which would have allowed full speed service with 22Ks. Thankfully they did it as cheaply as possible so that when the service goes unused it can be closed again without a billion euro loss. The crying shame is that track machines are trundling up and down south Galway and there's no Oranmore double tracking and a picket on the Midleton rebuild.

DWCommuter

Zoney wrote: »

Nostradamus:

If you think "trainspotters" are of any influence at all in having Ennis-Athenry reopened and proper services to Nenagh, I think you're probably quite deluded. I mean really - how on earth can anyone bring out that line with a straight face. One can barely even say it was pandering to voters either, with politicians not even pushing themselves to do that a lot of the time, and these projects not being that much of interest to many people.

It is about improving transport options. The fact is that a commuter service to Nenagh should work - there are enough people using the main N7 just from Nenagh every day. Similarly, with the Limerick-Galway bus route being so busy, there is ample room for a train service. It's about providing a better service - the bus is not a choice that some people will take at all at all. It is also slower than the train will be, due to getting stuck in traffic at either end. The new motorway will also mean a longer route for the bus, plus diversions into the towns - and the bus will not be getting the advantage of the 120km/h limit.

The only reason these have happened before the critically needed projects in say the Dublin area is that the latter require political will that isn't there (particularly it seems the politicians in Meath), and large chunks of money. The midwest projects were relatively cheap to execute, a tiny amount compared to for example, the Navan rail link. Even if the Navan link is more important.

I disagree with you Zoney and I think you are being a little unfair to nostodamus.

Lets look at some facts that I witnessed at close hand.

1. Many of the non-political players in the wrc campaign were trainspotters/enthusiasts and from abroad. I know, because I met them at events.

2. Even WOT themselves, used trainspotting/enthusiast web sites to drum up support.

2. Trainspotters/enthusiasts were a central part of the Nenagh line campaign.

I say this to you devoid of delusion and with a very straight face.

Passenger

Here's the YouTube Gluas vid incase anybody hasn't seen it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZKdEM9tW2M

BluntGuy

Woah!

This project is much more serious than I realised it was...

If they can really get the 200 million euro to do it, hey, I ain't gonna say no.

But I still doubt it's happening anytime soon...

Protect the route corridors for now, build up the areas it will serve, improve bus services, cycle paths and roads in the mean time...

Chris_533976

Comments on that video -

1) They dont integrate it with the Bus and train station, but the other side of Eyre Square. Idiots.

2) It comes up St Francis Street and Eglinton Street. Coupled with the permanent line of parked cars along there, a bus can hardly get up there as it stands. How are they going to cram two tram lines up there? And unless they fully remove traffic from that road, there is absolutely no way the tram will manage to make the bend at the top of Shop Street. They could ONLY close this street to traffic if they pedestrianiase great swathes of the city centre, which they should do as part of a REALISTIC PLAN.

3) Noone proofread the video and it looks unprofessional. They spell Oranmore wrong at 1m08.

BluntGuy

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Comments on that video -

1) They dont integrate it with the Bus and train station, but the other side of Eyre Square. Idiots.

2) It comes up St Francis Street and Eglinton Street. Coupled with the permanent line of parked cars along there, a bus can hardly get up there as it stands. How are they going to cram two tram lines up there? And unless they fully remove traffic from that road, there is absolutely no way the tram will manage to make the bend at the top of Shop Street. They could ONLY close this street to traffic if they pedestrianiase great swathes of the city centre, which they should do as part of a REALISTIC PLAN.

3) Noone proofread the video and it looks unprofessional. They spell Oranmore wrong at 1m08.

You're not the most enthusiastic about the project I gather...

I've read all your previous posts and I agree totally with what you said. It's a good long-term goal, but people shouldn't have this unrealistic idea that it's gonna be happening any time soon...

Btw, your attention to detail is pretty amazing lol... They should've hired you to do the vid...

Ckal

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Comments on that video -

1) They dont integrate it with the Bus and train station, but the other side of Eyre Square. Idiots.

2) It comes up St Francis Street and Eglinton Street. Coupled with the permanent line of parked cars along there, a bus can hardly get up there as it stands. How are they going to cram two tram lines up there? And unless they fully remove traffic from that road, there is absolutely no way the tram will manage to make the bend at the top of Shop Street. They could ONLY close this street to traffic if they pedestrianiase great swathes of the city centre, which they should do as part of a REALISTIC PLAN.

3) Noone proofread the video and it looks unprofessional. They spell Oranmore wrong at 1m08.

Some European cities I've been to have the same set up as the GLuas. You have to walk a short distance from the train station to the tram. But I do think that of they are going to do this then they should make a better effort as regards connecting train with tram with bus.

But that video confuses me. What's the point of the red line? It serves the same areas as the yellow line.

I'd much prefer if the line went to Moycullen rather than stop at Ballagh, but I guess that's just a matter of extending the line if needed.

Regarding the bus system in Galway. Do what Bergen in Norway do: Buses are FREE. More people will use them which will lead to greater demand for better routes - hopefully. :pac: But I guess the government won't do that, so I should stop dreaming for free buses.

BluntGuy

Ckal wrote: »

But that video confuses me. What's the point of the red line? It serves the same areas as the yellow line.

Lol...

The red-line only serves one stop that the yellow line and the green line don't serve (and that stop is within five minutes walking distance of the yellow line!)

In reality there's only two lines with a short line linking them.

Ckal

BluntGuy wrote: »

Lol...

The red-line only serves one stop that the yellow line and the green line don't serve (and that stop is within five minutes walking distance of the yellow line!)

In reality there's only two lines with a short line linking them.

Oh, right. :P I guess that's ok then, lol.

Nostradamus

pointofnoreturn wrote: »

If Irishrail aren't prepared to put at least the effort of rebuilding the WRC for scale over the next few years then what is the point of it!

Not Irish Rail's fault.

If you think that is bad they were forced to reinstall the railway signs along the northern section of the WRC which is not opened at all. I guess the magical leprecaurn trains use them.

noelfirl

Nostradamus wrote: »

Not Irish Rail's fault.

If you think that is bad they were forced to reinstall the railway signs along the northern section of the WRC which is not opened at all. I guess the magical leprecaurn trains use them.

Isn't that just for the purposes of protection from deterioration should funding ever arise within the next decades to complete the northern connection to Colloney. AFAIK it isn't costing that much to do it either (in the grand scale of things).

As for Gluas, erm, they can't really think that €200 million will be enough to cover this thing, can they?

pointofnoreturn

Have a look, Talk tomorrow, i wonder will this turn into a debate?

monument

Chris_533976 wrote: »

1) They dont integrate it with the Bus and train station, but the other side of Eyre Square. Idiots.

The walk -- while maybe not ideal -- would be comparable enough to Connolly Luas to the main Dart / Commuter platforms, or Heuston Luas to some of the platforms there.

Chris_533976 wrote: »

They could ONLY close this street to traffic if they pedestrianiase great swathes of the city centre,

You might be on to something there... and politically it's probably a none starter with buses alone, but with trams there is a running chance.