vegan lifestyle and pets?

the beer revolu

This is an honest question.

Is keeping pets consistent with a vegan lifestyle?

I ask this cause last week I brought my female cat to get spayed. Although I know that it's the responsible thing to do, I couldn't help but feel that I don't have the right to force surgery and sterilization on another animal.

The conclusion I came to is that keeping pets is akin to eating meat or drinking milk (ok differs from meat in that the animal isn't killed) but without the honesty of admitting that we exploit pets for our own ends and not for their benefit.

We incarcerate them.
Sterilize them.
Perform euthanasia on them.

All to suit our own lifestyle.
Is that not exploitation no matter how much we claim to 'love' them.

I guess keeping 'rescue pets' would be an exception.

I know this will upset some people but I'm genuinely interested in what people here think.

Tar.Aldarion

I think that keeping pets would of course go against an ethical vegans point of view. However humans domesticated animals and now they need us. I think it is our responsibility to look after such animals, cats, dogs et al. I am against people buying animals from breeders but would be for a person keeping a pet from the pound and so on.

sweet-rasmus

http://www.vegansociety.com/newsroom/index.php?/plugin/faqs/4/25

Question: Are vegans against keeping companion animals?

Answer: The Vegan Society cannot condone commercial animal breeding, nor the huge pet-food industry - which supports the meat industry. However, many vegans share their homes with rescued animals. This saves the animals from death, and provides the humans with companionship. Some vegans decide not to have companion animals at all.

Leaving cats and dogs unneutered ----> http://cats.about.com/cs/spayneuter/a/earlyneuter.htm

One unspayed female cat and her offspring, can be responsible for the birth of 73,000 kittens in six years. Indeed, female cats barely kittens themselves commonly give birth, and male cats as young as four months have been known to impregnate willing queens.

Far too many animals (greyhounds being the best example) are put down here in Ireland. Thousands upon thousands. I don't have the exact figures but heard all about it in a nationwide program a month or two ago. These animals need homes and I'd rather take them in rather than leave them to be slaughtered. http://www.paws.ie/
I am vegan and have no problem with feeding and keeping company the cat whom was hiding out in a neighbour's green house, looking far too thin when I came across him.

the beer revolu

Thanks guys.

I guess it was more of a theoretical question rather than a practical one.

I appreciate your views. It's an odd area.

Slaphead07

I don't see any problem with keeping pets - depending on how you keep them. I've always had dogs around, I love them. It's a simple symbiotic relationship, they give unconditional love and I give food, exercise (by way of play) and a "pack" they can be part of. I think some "high-minded" people would have more of a problem with the notion than the dog to be honest.

Sapsorrow

I have four cats, two are rescue cats and I'll never turn my back on any stray animal that crosses my path. I worship the ground the walk on and do everything in my power to make them as happy as is possible (which often happens to be euphoria for cats) and as healthy as possible. If anything I think this goes hand in hand with the vegan lifestyle/philosophy because it is the ultimate act of love, respect and devotion you can give to an animal.

Sapsorrow

Oh and you are rewarded with the privelage of having them in your life to make you laugh, comfort you when your down and keep you company and generally make you happy too! I'm a crazy cat lady obviously (and proud too)

rubadub

I always presumed vegans would not keep pets at all since it is in effect using them for your own gain/purpose. I can see the argument for taking in animals from the pound, but I would also question it. You are still taking the animal for your own use. Would you take in a leather couch if it was being thrown out or going to be destroyed. Would you eat meat if it was going to otherwise be thrown out? If you are going to "save" an animal from being killed in the pound would you also consider "saving" animals from meat farms?

The linked site also mentioned a vegan diet for your animals (does anybody do this?) If you are still feeding them meat then over the course of the saved animals life you will have used even more animals to feed it.

By keeping a saved animal you are also in a way promoting the idea of keeping pets to other people and could be helping continue the cycle of breeding.

rockbeer

rubadub wrote: »

I always presumed vegans would not keep pets at all since it is in effect using them for your own gain/purpose.

I don't see it that way as far as cats are concerned - they have a choice, and frequently exercise it. If a cat doesn't like your hospitality it usually won't hesitate to leave and find somewhere better. Chances are, somebody else regards as theirs the cat you think of as yours. If anything, cats use us for food and companionship while pleasing themselves entirely.

Dogs sadly aren't so independent and will often hang around to be abused, neglected, put to work and generally taken advantage of. I'm not so happy with the idea of living with dogs, in truth, as they seem to lack the power of choice, although I don't see it as using them if they are treated well.

I'm dead against locking any animal up (keeping it in a cage/tank/pen/ or on a chain), putting it to work or sitting on its back. That, I agree, is using animals for your own purposes. I'm often amazed by vegetarians and vegans who are quite happy to climb up on a horse's back.

Whispered

rockbeer wrote: »

I don't see it that way as far as cats are concerned - they have a choice, and frequently exercise it. If a cat doesn't like your hospitality it usually won't hesitate to leave and find somewhere better. Chances are, somebody else regards as theirs the cat you think of as yours. If anything, cats use us for food and companionship while pleasing themselves entirely.

Dogs sadly aren't so independent and will often hang around to be abused, neglected, put to work and generally taken advantage of. I'm not so happy with the idea of living with dogs, in truth, as they seem to lack the power of choice, although I don't see it as using them if they are treated well.

I'm dead against locking any animal up (keeping it in a cage/tank/pen/ or on a chain), putting it to work or sitting on its back. That, I agree, is using animals for your own purposes. I'm often amazed by vegetarians and vegans who are quite happy to climb up on a horse's back.

I have two cats who will run down the stairs and greet me in the evenings when I come in from work. If I am working at the kitchen table, they will lie on a hard wooden chair, in the kitchen, rather than on the couch by the radiator or fire. They prefer my company than comfort. They give you just as much love as a dog does, but in a much more subtle and less needy way. If anything, my attitude would be that a dog needs you to survive, they are naturally programmed to please you. Not so for a cat, so a cat wanting your company and displying affection is a lot more special than a dog doing it. (but then I'm a cat person, so I would say that )

As for vegetarians climbing on a horses back, or vegetarians putting an animal to work being wrong, I'm of the opinion that greyhounds are born to chase, horses are born to run, etc etc. While I think certain aspects of these sports need to be better monitored, I think the ultimate cruelty would be to prevent these animals from doing what they are born and bred to do. It is a dogs natural instinct to work, they get bored and have no meaning in life if they don't do something. Leading to behavioural problems. The happiest dogs I know are sheep dogs!

Sapsorrow

Chances are, somebody else regards as theirs the cat you think of as yours.

Yup one of mine is such a tart she has three owners altogether (although I'm number 1 i hope) who are our old neighbours one either side of our house, they all love her too it's great!

If anything, cats use us for food and companionship while pleasing themselves entirely.

I don't think they use you necessarily, I've had many cats in my life all of whom I loved to bits and they nearly all ( save one or two more righteous characters) obviously loved me back loads which is not really part of the deal when you 'use' someone or something for your own ends.

rockbeer

Hey, when I said that cats use us it wasn't meant to be derogatory. I've lived with cats most of my life and as fsar as I'm concerned they're brilliant to have around. I was just making the point to rubadub that rather than humans using animals, in the case of cats the relationship could be interpreted the other way round.

I personally think it's a symbiotic relationship. I don't resent them, I love them to bits.

As for horses helena, yes they're born to run but not with ten stone of human on board. No horse willingly carries a human without being broken in (i.e. having its spirit broken) first. That is definitely over the line of what's acceptable for me. Especially nowadays when it's rarely even necessary, and we just climb aboard for fun.

Gauge

I think, rockbeer you should do some further research on what you're arguing as regards horses. I'm not denying your right to an opinion but when you mention things like 'breaking' meaning 'having it's spirit broken' you're incorrect. Breaking simply refers to training a horse and it applies to many different aspects. Halter breaking, and simply 'breaking' which is now used interchangeably with 'riding' or 'mounting' the horse for the first time. Horses are expressive animals- it's quite easy to tell if one is happy and I can easily say the only unhappy horses I've seen in my 10 years of riding are ones that are mistreated or neglected. A healthy horse, when ridden, is alert and interested- not broken, not enslaved, not suffering.

As for climbing aboard for fun, it's not exactly a chore for the horse- a horse is capable of enjoying jumping and being excercised as much as the rider enjoys being on it.
It is true that in the past horses were trained using much more forceful methods and the term 'breaking a horse's spirit' did mean just that, but modern horse training favours a much more easy going approach that is focused on the animal's wellbeing (this is the best scenario of course- cruelty to horses is still far more widespread than it should be).

Horses are not just forced to submit to their rider's will. A trained horse is not the least bit bothered by a capable rider on it's back (trust me- if a horse doesn't want you on its back, the horse has the final say- not the rider) and will get very bored and destructive very fast if it is not ridden and kept busy.

I wouldn't be so quick to write off veg*ns who ride horses.

rockbeer

Hey Gauge, I'm sure you have much more experience than me, but most horses are of course born in captivity these days so their acclimatisation to human domination starts at birth. Like many slaves, a typical horse will accept its lot uncomplainingly but that's not always the same thing as pleasure.

Next time you come across a wild horse why don't you film yourself popping a saddle on and hopping up on its back while it stands still for you smiling happily. That should prove to us all just how much they "enjoy" it.