Reserves overseas

timmywex

Lets remember that its only going to be specialist fields sent out more than likely, medics engineers etc etc, so these people wont be on the front line!

Hence, not as much training with the pdf required imo.

arybvtcw0eolkf

cherrypicker555 wrote: »

Its highly unlikely female PDF infantry would be capable of constantly operating at such a high tempo, ie carrying heavy loads over many hours in extreme heat/dust in constant contacts etc, either physically or psychologically.

Damn right, I couldn't agree more.

arybvtcw0eolkf

timmywex wrote: »

Lets remember that its only going to be specialist fields sent out more than likely, medics engineers etc etc, so these people wont be on the front line!

Hence, not as much training with the pdf required imo.

We travel as an infantry battalion, which means personel are drawn from the various branches in all the various commands (including the Air Corp & Naval Service).

We form up together and train as one.

Something almost unique to the Irish soldier is that each and every member is first and foremost trained as an infantry rifleman, and thats including medics (as recruits & on NCO courses).

One doesn't necessarily get more training than the other when the form up period begins.

Evd-Burner

It'd be pretty cool that as a reservist ye had the option as going away for training for an entire summer paid, would benefit most reservists as most are students etc etc.

What would yez all think of doing something like that?

In my opinion

Evd-Burner wrote: »

It'd be pretty cool that as a reservist ye had the option as going away for training for an entire summer paid, would benefit most reservists as most are students etc etc.

What would yez all think of doing something like that?

The question is would it benefit Ireland?

The thread is about reservists going overseas. I for one would love to however the rank I hold in the reserve makes it unlikely that I will get the opportunity to serve in an Infantry Bn overseas, that said I am told by my Bn commander that I would fit the bill for all other Irish overseas missions. KFOR (Kosovo) he claims has lots of jobs that are not soldier jobs but are done by soldiers none the less. I will wait and see:)

dahamster

In my opinion wrote: »

The question is would it benefit Ireland?

The thread is about reservists going overseas. I for one would love to however the rank I hold in the reserve makes it unlikely that I will get the opportunity to serve in an Infantry Bn overseas,

why what rank are you?

that said I am told by my Bn commander that I would fit the bill for all other Irish overseas missions. KFOR (Kosovo) he claims has lots of jobs that are not soldier jobs but are done by soldiers none the less. I will wait and see:)

examples?? what you are saying makes no sense

Hard Larry

In my opinion wrote: »

The question is would it benefit Ireland?

The thread is about reservists going overseas. I for one would love to however the rank I hold in the reserve makes it unlikely that I will get the opportunity to serve in an Infantry Bn overseas, that said I am told by my Bn commander that I would fit the bill for all other Irish overseas missions. KFOR (Kosovo) he claims has lots of jobs that are not soldier jobs but are done by soldiers none the less. I will wait and see:)

These "not soldier jobs" in Kosovo...are you talking about the 2 Aul Ones who work in the laundry? or the lads that clean the jacks?

They don't get paid much for todays credit crunch standard mate...you'd want to be careful applying for them positions.

Evd-Burner

It would be fairly handy to have it so that reservists know that at any moment they could be called, even if it is only a very small percentage that actually go abroad.

Would keep most reservists on there toes fitness wise etc etc.

What do yez tink of that???

Nuravictus

I'm in the RDF & I would love if it was overhauled & we got some serious training. We do get trained atm but the RDF has issues with people not showing up enough because there is no real commitment to show up.

Maybe a few PDF guys will disagree with me but I have played Enemy for the PDF & we have sent up positions that PDF 3 Stars couldnt find or locate our position which was less than 3 feet from their position. After 2 attempts the PDF Cpl asked us to revive our in-dept when he waved his hand. So we had to stand up & look like retards to keep PDF 3 Stars from getting depressed because they were been whacked by sandbaggers.

I for one look forward to things getting better in the reserve. the RDF is nowhere near as good as the PDF in my opinion, I joined the RDF for fittness & to be pushed. I havn't found that there but it is changing & getting more serious.

I think the PDF lads forget the RDF is a 500/1000 Euro Investment for most RDF Private's since we have to buy all our own equipment. We got very little for free.

Hard Larry

Nuravictus wrote: »

I think the PDF lads forget the RDF is a 500/1000 Euro Investment for most RDF Private's since we have to buy all our own equipment. We got very little for free.

Don't go there mate. I've spent that amount on Meal-Tickets alone.

I spent more money than that travelling home on leave from a mission area this year.

As for kit God knows how much I've spent on gear I needed over the years.

Get yourself a copy of the Connect magazine pull-out of the new army Battle Vest layout and actually count how many items are on issue and how many aren't.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Nuravictus wrote: »

I think the PDF lads forget the RDF is a 500/1000 Euro Investment for most RDF Private's since we have to buy all our own equipment. We got very little for free.

I don't think we do forget it actually. But you have to remember that the majority of PDF members have very little dealings with the RDF and its easy to think your all plain sailing your way through your service.

Alot of this is to do with the RDF lads themselves, why?.

I've posted about this before, lads - WE DON'T BITE!.

FFs, typical case. The other day, can't remember which exactly, I was on duty and went over to the dining hall for grub (usually I get a curry, but decided to slum it this evening). There was a good few RDF lads there, so I decided to take my meal to one of the tables occupied by them - jesus do I smell bad or something?.

The convo died, and try as I might to strike up a little chat I was wasting my time.

RDF lads have to relax a little around the PDF guys, we're all on the same team after all.

As for going oversea's, no I can't see it happening. Even if the training standards were on a par, but there's rarely a shortage of volunteers from the PDF for vacancies oversea's and if a PDF member was denied a trip in favour of someone from the RDF there would be hell to pay.

Were as the RDF want the experience and adventure of oversea's, the PDF want it for that plus it pays our wages and is in many circumstances its preferential when applying for promotion to have held certain vacancies oversea's.

There would be so many grounds for re-dressing the decision that it just wouldn't be worth it IMO.

Poccington

Nuravictus wrote: »

I think the PDF lads forget the RDF is a 500/1000 Euro Investment for most RDF Private's since we have to buy all our own equipment. We got very little for free.

We pay just the same for all our kit. I don't know why people think we get fully kitted out for jobs, as Larry said have a look at the new layout for the Battle Vest..... There's quite a lot that we have to buy ourselves. At the moment the only thing in my Battle Vest that was issued to me is a boonie hat.

PDF and RDF are in the same boat when it comes to purchasing kit.

Manic Moran

It happens everywhere. I've bought a few bits and bobs myself, from my holosight through mag pouches, to spare uniforms, and I'm in the US. Something the US does do, though, is that they take a survey of things that soldiers buy on their own to bring over, and if enough people do it, then the Army just buys it for everyone and gives it on issue during the pre-deployment spinup. It's called RFI (Rapid Fielding Initiative). The theory is that the whole selection process can be bypassed because if it didn't work and get good reviews in the field, the soldiers wouldn't be buying them with their own money in the first place.

(Some particularly enthusiastic people even bring their own rifle components like a new upper body/barrel)

NTM

Hard Larry

Manic Moran wrote: »

It happens everywhere. I've bought a few bits and bobs myself, from my holosight through mag pouches, to spare uniforms, and I'm in the US. Something the US does do, though, is that they take a survey of things that soldiers buy on their own to bring over, and if enough people do it, then the Army just buys it for everyone and gives it on issue during the pre-deployment spinup. It's called RFI (Rapid Fielding Initiative). The theory is that the whole selection process can be bypassed because if it didn't work and get good reviews in the field, the soldiers wouldn't be buying them with their own money in the first place.

(Some particularly enthusiastic people even bring their own rifle components like a new upper body/barrel)

NTM

Damn Superpowers showing off with your initiatves.

This wouldn't work with the Irish as the first thing on the list would be John Player Blue

Evd-Burner

The reason why i was saying that the RDF should have a small percentage going is that it would basically keep us all on our toes training and fitness wise...

That alone would probably considerably improve the rdf. So that people are ready if they ever did have to be deployed.

Nuravictus

Thats a bit stupid that you don't get issued all the gear you need.How do you lads get Irish DPM Equipment or do you have to use Generic Equipment.

I also wanta your lads views on when RDF play enemy for PDF been told to walk into ambushs & give away positions when the PDF 3 Stars can't find them. Does that give you a bad view of the RDF. The PDF has its fair share of Rambo's as well who do stupid ****, The best one I seen was a PDF 3 Star who put long grass on his Helmet & gave his whole squad away because we seen a big clup off long grass running down the stream on our left flank. Some of you lads forget the RDF lads respect the PDF a lot coz we realise your the real deal something we want to be but we want to do our civilian jobs as well. I think the intergrated is the future of the Reserve now. Whats the PDF lads feelings on the Intergrated ?

Hard Larry

Nuravictus wrote: »

Thats a bit stupid that you don't get issued all the gear you need.How do you lads get Irish DPM Equipment or do you have to use Generic Equipment.

I also wanta your lads views on when RDF play enemy for PDF been told to walk into ambushs & give away positions when the PDF 3 Stars can't find them. Does that give you a bad view of the RDF. The PDF has its fair share of Rambo's as well who do stupid ****, The best one I seen was a PDF 3 Star who put long grass on his Helmet & gave his whole squad away because we seen a big clup off long grass running down the stream on our left flank. Some of you lads forget the RDF lads respect the PDF a lot coz we realise your the real deal something we want to be but we want to do our civilian jobs as well. I think the intergrated is the future of the Reserve now. Whats the PDF lads feelings on the Intergrated ?

First thing you have to realise is the Irish army is not full of gung-ho, 7ft tall bullet spitting killing machines. And just like in any job in the world we have our fair share of dumb sh1ts, selfish fooks and general lazy buggers.

Just because a guy uses top of the range personnally bought kit in front of you to look great doesn't mean he is great. Just because you got 4 extra pouches squashed on to your fighting order just means you got more money to spend on crap than the guy standing beside you with no extra pouches...but on the inside he's laughing his ass off cause the more space you got in your kit means more ammo is gonna get stuffed in there for you to carry and crawl around in.

Put yourself in the frame of mind of an Irish army 3 star Private when you do enemy for them on on an exercise...

1) You're cold, wet and hungry (and a good chance 1 in 3 is hungover)
2) you've been up since the crack of dawn and have had NCOs barking orders at you all morning.
3) This is your 100th time doing *insert tactical manouver here* this month
4) You're more than likely not getting a day off for this crap
5) If you do get a day off you're more than likely gonna be on duty on that day and your CS is a bollox and won't give you a day in lieu
6) You know this is all for show so some Officer/NCO can look great in front of a superior Officer/NCO

in other words the lads out there on any given day could care less what happens as long as he gets home when he was promised he could get home. Its not a hobby or pasttime for these lads its a job. Now I'm obviously not tarring everyone with the same brush but thats a pretty accurate description of whats going through the average Infantry Privates head.

On an exercise or Tactical Demonstration lesson you've got realise its just a lesson so play along when you're told to give away positions and the like. I know it sounds crappy but if you're doing enemy for the Army well then the exercise is more than likely for their benefit than yours...hence why you get told to give your positions away or play dead.

From an NCOs point of view the intergrated training is a joy to do because you get given command of a Platoon (in some cases a Company) of troops who actually want to do everything you say and won't crib about it!

As for Overseas service I honestly can't see it happening unless you have a civvie job with skills that are short in the Army. (eg EMT, Engineer etc etc) But all I can say is (especially in the case of Chad) be careful what you wish for lads you could end up in the asrehole of the planet somewhere and you too will get to ask yourself the question every soldier asks themselves when they realise where they are....

"What the f**k am I doing here?"

Nuravictus

Hard Larry wrote: »

On an exercise or Tactical Demonstration lesson you've got realise its just a lesson so play along when you're told to give away positions and the like. I know it sounds crappy but if you're doing enemy for the Army well then the exercise is more than likely for their benefit than yours...hence why you get told to give your positions away or play dead.

What I was refering too was a attack which failed 2 twice. So on the 3rd Attempt we gave away our position. I just feel sometimes doing these retarded things like walking into some of the worst ambushs I've ever seen where we found the cut off group but we just walk to our death & dont take any form of cover when we get hit up & stand in the middle of the road looking like terrible retards can give a lot of PDF 3 Stars a image of the RDF as morans who dont know any contact drills or anything. Do you lads in the PDF form your views on the RDF from them playing enemy for you or from older lads. I would love to see where there views on the RDF come from.

the PDF are way better than the reserve but there is a lot of things we are asked to do that we would never really if it was the real deal. I just look forward to the day when the Reserve arent sandbagger but are buds :P

arybvtcw0eolkf

Great post Larry.

Saying it how it is.

Hard Larry

Nuravictus wrote: »

What I was refering too was a attack which failed 2 twice. So on the 3rd Attempt we gave away our position. I just feel sometimes doing these retarded things like walking into some of the worst ambushs I've ever seen where we found the cut off group but we just walk to our death & dont take any form of cover when we get hit up & stand in the middle of the road looking like terrible retards can give a lot of PDF 3 Stars a image of the RDF as morans who dont know any contact drills or anything. Do you lads in the PDF form your views on the RDF from them playing enemy for you or from older lads. I would love to see where there views on the RDF come from.

the PDF are way better than the reserve but there is a lot of things we are asked to do that we would never really if it was the real deal. I just look forward to the day when the Reserve arent sandbagger but are buds :P

Ok mate you could throw these examples at me forever and I could go on answering them forever. I'll say this I view Tactical training in the form of ambushes (with the exception of contact drills) as the very basic training that hopefully we'll never put into practice. Obviously it has to be done to make sure everyone knows the basics and has general idea of whats going on but IMO you won't learn much unless you're actually doing it for real and the ambushed are shooting back.

I'm getting a "why the hell do all hate me?" vibe from your posts. Not everyone hates you in the Army...but the vast majority do Why is there a negative image toward Reservist by the Army? because the average soldier puts up with more crap in one week than you would in an entire year.

You're recruit training consists of you showing up one night a week and heading off the odd weekend and maybe 2 week long stints in the year.

The DF recruit training is a non-stop flogging session where you are expected to know everything you've been instructed when asked or face the wrath of a screaming madman.

And at the end of it all the 2 of you are awarded the same rank. What makes it worse for the Army Private is that you have NCOs that haven't gone through half the crap that they have and they are a senior rank.

I could list thousands of comparisons here between the 2 organisations but they all turn out the same....you just don't have the service to impress anyone. If it makes you feel better the average 3 star Private in an infantry battalion is viewed as a "turd on a stick" until they get a trip overseas under their belt.

My personal veiw of the RDF is not a bad one. I like working with the RDF I'd love to get back into it as the enthusiasm and willingness to learn is like nothing an NCO experiences with troops of his own unit or even recruits.
But please just because I like working with you doesn't mean we'll be Hi-5ing each other in the shower or swapping mobile numbers anytime soon.

I'll give you a rough comparison, ask yourself this do you think Premiership footballers hang around with lower division footballers?
Do 6th years in school hang around with lower classes?
If you watch "Scrubs" look at how Dr. Cox views JD

The RDF is getting better due to the Intergrated Training enjoy it while you can get it, God knows it could be given the heave-ho in the future.

PS "a turd on a stick" is a giant step up from "a turd on your shoe" which is how new Lt's are seen

arybvtcw0eolkf

Jesus Larry, your even scaring me now

Guys Larry has more or less hit the nail on the head in regards comparisions between the RDF and the PDF, some of us would have been a little more diplomatic about it, but at the same time I can't knock a word of what he says.

Manic Moran

In fairness, Larry, the man does have a point.

People do not join the reserves to be training aids for the PDF, regardless of how much PDF troopers need to continually rehearse their contact drills. It's hard enough to get the resources and people together for reserve field exercises in the first place, those precious assets need to be better spent on training the reservists up to standards, not on helping PDF practice their skills.

NTM

Hard Larry

Manic Moran wrote: »

In fairness, Larry, the man does have a point.

People do not join the reserves to be training aids for the PDF, regardless of how much PDF troopers need to continually rehearse their contact drills. It's hard enough to get the resources and people together for reserve field exercises in the first place, those precious assets need to be better spent on training the reservists up to standards, not on helping PDF practice their skills.

NTM

Totally agree. Its just the example that was used in his post seemed to me be a Army exercise that Reserve troops were supplying support for. IMO any exercise that involves the 2 organisations should be intergrated so that everyone benefits.
I'd love to see the Army giving as much support to the RDF as possible you ask any Corporal (promoted in the last 10 years) in an Infantry battalion would he be willing to train RDF personnel on his own time on a weekday night and 4 out of 5 guys would say no problem.

Nuravictus

Hard Larry wrote: »

Totally agree. Its just the example that was used in his post seemed to me be a Army exercise that Reserve troops were supplying support for. IMO any exercise that involves the 2 organisations should be intergrated so that everyone benefits.
I'd love to see the Army giving as much support to the RDF as possible you ask any Corporal (promoted in the last 10 years) in an Infantry battalion would he be willing to train RDF personnel on his own time on a weekday night and 4 out of 5 guys would say no problem.

Im refering to the fact that RDF are consistly asked not to do anything "tactical" when we play enemy for the PDF. What I think is after we get nailed in some really stupid ways to give the PDF 3 Stars a "Morale Boost" because they had a hard few nights on the hill they probally think "Jesus" them RDF lads sure are retards "why did they just stand there instead of taking cover" ?

I understand its for training purposes but i think it gives a lot of people a negative view of the RDF in a certain way.

Manic Moran

What's confusing me about your example, Naru, is the purpose of 'exposing yourselves'.

Surely if you're conducting an ambush, then your presence will be made known as soon as the first shot is fired, there is no need for 'deliberate sloppiness.'

(That said, we actually did set up deliberately sloppy ambushes in Iraq, with the intent of enticing the opposition to play)

NTM

mrDuke

the NSR often go overseas with the navy, i want to norway last year. Does this count as overseas or are you strictly speaking about war zones etc?

Hard Larry

Nuravictus wrote: »

Im refering to the fact that RDF are consistly asked not to do anything "tactical" when we play enemy for the PDF. What I think is after we get nailed in some really stupid ways to give the PDF 3 Stars a "Morale Boost" because they had a hard few nights on the hill they probally think "Jesus" them RDF lads sure are retards "why did they just stand there instead of taking cover" ?

I understand its for training purposes but i think it gives a lot of people a negative view of the RDF in a certain way.

Well when our own lads do enemy for us the same thing happens. The troops under instruction are the ones that take priority. As I already said in another post I believe this to be wrong and everyone participating in the exercise should benefit from it.

But trust me the last thing going through the minds of those lads after a dig-in /basecamp is the tactical inability of the enemy troops. Their mind state is somewhere between "i really want to change my socks" to "I would kill everyone in this forest for a single drop of beer"

I said in a previous post we could lash examples of Tac Ex's at each other all week here and I really don't want to get into that because it inevitably ends in a "my Da is bigger than your Da" argument. But usually at the end of a dig-in/basecamp exercise the last action is usually to put that little extra bit of pressure on the soldier who has just spent the last 2/3 days in a hole in the ground, i.e. to make sure that said cold, hungry, wet and tired soldier can still do his or her job.

But hold on I hear you cry! "But the made us expose our position!" I understand that but its all part of the game that is Tactical training. The Instructional staff want to see that the exercise troops can handle the situations thrown at them. IMO the DS staff obviously didn't care about target indication of your ambush but wanted to make sure that the exercise troops could carry out the "crawl through mud underfire" part of the exercise...either that or there was some nice warm trucks around the corner waiting on everyone to finish up and go home.

Poccington

Larry pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Some great posts.

jake59

Hard Larry wrote: »

.

I'm getting a "why the hell do all hate me?" vibe from your posts. Not everyone hates you in the Army...but the vast majority do Why is there a negative image toward Reservist by the Army? because the average soldier puts up with more crap in one week than you would in an entire year.

Don't forget that there are a sizeable portion of the RDF who are ex PDF and who have gone through all the bull**** of army life, have perhaps served on overseas missions and have since leaving developed further skills that enhance the time they put into the RDF. Just remember to not judge a book by its cover and that the RDF guy facing you as 'enemy' could well be vastly more experienced than yourself.... and yet he still turns up and does the job.... so a bit less of the moaning about army life Larry... it's what you signed up for bud

Evd-Burner

^^^^^^EXACTLY

We have a lad with us who is ex pdf, he served in lebannon and now is a qualified fireman. The chap really knows what he's talking bout.

In my opinion

Hard Larry wrote: »

These "not soldier jobs" in Kosovo...are you talking about the 2 Aul Ones who work in the laundry? or the lads that clean the jacks?

They don't get paid much for todays credit crunch standard mate...you'd want to be careful applying for them positions.

I am told that some of the soldiers that serve in Kosovo do jobs that are not military specific. Managing budgets acting in almost local government clerical or executive appointments. I will be careful applying for those positions.

If you knew me washing machine pilot or jack jockey are not my style but of course someone has to do it.

I also feel any one holding a rank above pte. will not be considered for an Inf. Bn. position that's all I am saying.

RFHazard

jake59 wrote: »

Hard Larry wrote: »

.

I'm getting a "why the hell do all hate me?" vibe from your posts. Not everyone hates you in the Army...but the vast majority do Why is there a negative image toward Reservist by the Army? because the average soldier puts up with more crap in one week than you would in an entire year.

Don't forget that there are a sizeable portion of the RDF who are ex PDF and who have gone through all the bull**** of army life, have perhaps served on overseas missions and have since leaving developed further skills that enhance the time they put into the RDF. Just remember to not judge a book by its cover and that the RDF guy facing you as 'enemy' could well be vastly more experienced than yourself.... and yet he still turns up and does the job.... so a bit less of the moaning about army life Larry... it's what you signed up for bud

Where did you get your "sizeable portion" statistic?? Larry is spot on with what he has been saying. There may be some X-ers in the RDF but they are few and far between, and their experience is a function of their length of service per rank relative to the the length of time since leaving. i.e 3 years total service ending 20 years ago is off little use compared to 20 years total service ending three years ago.

As for the "your dead, we shot you first" rubbish. :mad: The primary purpose of the majority of these exercises is to test the drills of the units in question, not necessarily the fieldcraft of individual soldiers (although this is always a part of training). Were live ammunition being used, you would be suppressed, and more than likely subject to artillery and support weapons fire as well. But it's not, so consequently, everybody has to use their imaginations, and the DS have to steer the exercise to achieve the stated training objectives. If you are being told to stand up it is to move the exercise on and to get the section/platoon/coy comd to move on to the next phase of battle.

Sh*teing on in the mess about how you singlehandedly defeated the entire PDF Coy may serve as a morale boost amongst yourselves but it just further undermines the RDF's credibility.

Enthusiasm may be admirable, but enthusiastic naiveté does not engender respect.

concussion

Good post - stalk ex's are for personal camoflage, concealment and movement. Range practices are for marksmanship. Tac exercises are to make sure the section/platoon/coy know how to operate together.

Being en for the PDF is no different than en for the RDF - you will always get those situations (however you usually get more ammo when the PDF are about )

Hard Larry

jake59 wrote: »

Don't forget that there are a sizeable portion of the RDF who are ex PDF and who have gone through all the bull**** of army life, have perhaps served on overseas missions and have since leaving developed further skills that enhance the time they put into the RDF. Just remember to not judge a book by its cover and that the RDF guy facing you as 'enemy' could well be vastly more experienced than yourself.... and yet he still turns up and does the job.... so a bit less of the moaning about army life Larry... it's what you signed up for bud

Moaning and the Army come hand in hand Jake59. Its the nature of the beast.

Looking back over my posts they are actually tame to what I hear on a regular basis. My portrayal of an Infantry 3* Private is about 95% accurate.
In my experience as a section commander on Tac Exercises and Overseas any of the troops under my command have not been shy about telling when they are wet, cold, hungry or tired. And they definitalty haven't been shy about reminding me of the fact every 10 minutes. Bless 'em.

I frickin' love the Army, sure I've had more bad days than good, but its all about those good days
What other job in the country lets you legally blow stuff up, use firearms and lets you drive Armoured vehicles at high speed in 3rd world countries AND THEN PAYS YOU FOR IT!

The Army has tons of bad points from the little snaggy ones that creep up on you once in a while to the blatantly obvious ones that make you consider whether you are mad or not cause no one else can notice it. A soldiers way of dealing with these are to find his nearest comrade and make his ears bleed with cribs...just like we do on this forum!

I love serving overseas and would do 1 a year if I could but due to been shackled at the ankle by a woman I can't . So I take them as often as I can get them. Whenever I travel Overseas I always try to go over with mates or at least people who will be in close proximity to me who I know won't get on my tits everyday. When asked about trips by mates (civvie or Army) I always seem to tell them the funny crap that happened or some of the more exciting days I had...but when I actually think back to my trips and the days where I wanted to rip peoples heads off its scary. If I'd have been approached on those days and asked were Overseas missions worth the money or how is life in the Army? I probably would have scalded the inquisitor with a hot cup of coffee. And thats just from the likes of the Leb and Kosovo I can only imagine what lads from other nations are going through in Iraq and Afghanistan.

In fact if I knew anyone in the Army who didn't crib and moan I'd be concerned for their well being.

The Army's a cruel mistress...but like all mistresses when you get her out of sight behind closed doors you'll have the ride of your life. Those are the good days.

Enthusiasm may be admirable, but enthusiastic naiveté does not engender respect.

Legend quote

Poccington

If everyone didn't crib in work we'd quite literally run out of things to talk about during the day :P

jake59

RFHazard wrote: »

3 years total service ending 20 years ago is off little use compared to 20 years total service ending three years ago.

20 years service does not make anyone good at their job, it just means that they have been there a long time so I will revert to my original point to not judge a book by its cover. I have seen plenty of good young soldiers who would be far superior in their attitude and forward thinking to an old sweat who thinks he knows best just because he has more service. There are plenty who see the army as an easy life and who just sit around and moan all day thinking they are something just because they wear the uniform. Unfortunately when it's time to do the job for real they will get found out, which of course is too late then and puts everyone at harm. So again I will say take each soldier on his/her own merits whether he is PDF or RDF.

As for the "your dead, we shot you first" rubbish. :mad:

Pardon?


Enthusiasm may be admirable, but enthusiastic naiveté does not engender respect.

Just to let you know where I'm coming from. I'm ex PDF and not involved in the RDF in any way although I still have contacts in Army HQ due to my work and would consider that across the whole RDF there is a sizeable portion of ex PDF members. I have also served numerous overseas missions including Lebanon and Kosovo. Everybody has their gripes and moans in whatever job they are in and I have been guilty of the same to pass a day but to carry it on to a forum like this where the moan is that you have to perform certain duties and drills which while seeming tedious and repetitive might actually save your life seems a bit rich. And to go on and treat others (i.e. members of the RDF) as if they should be grateful to be in your presence is condescending. Although I am sure you are doing a great job lads performing all the boring duties, drills, cash escorts etc etc while wishing you were off doing some proper soldiering you really have to accept that barrack life is not the 'life less ordinary' that you thought it was.
The armed forces is a great experience whether its as a regular or a part timer so enjoy it and if ye have to moan leave it at the barracks gate.:D

Hard Larry

jake59 wrote: »

Just to let you know where I'm coming from. I'm ex PDF and not involved in the RDF in any way although I still have contacts in Army HQ due to my work and would consider that across the whole RDF there is a sizeable portion of ex PDF members. I have also served numerous overseas missions including Lebanon and Kosovo. Everybody has their gripes and moans in whatever job they are in and I have been guilty of the same to pass a day but to carry it on to a forum like this where the moan is that you have to perform certain duties and drills which while seeming tedious and repetitive might actually save your life seems a bit rich. And to go on and treat others (i.e. members of the RDF) as if they should be grateful to be in your presence is condescending. Although I am sure you are doing a great job lads performing all the boring duties, drills, cash escorts etc etc while wishing you were off doing some proper soldiering you really have to accept that barrack life is not the 'life less ordinary' that you thought it was.
The armed forces is a great experience whether its as a regular or a part timer so enjoy it and if ye have to moan leave it at the barracks gate.:D

In my own experience I've never come across "a siezable amount of ex PDF members" in the RDF so I can't comment on that. I can only comment on the units I've trained or that have aided my unit in Tac Ex.

A guy asked a pretty tough question in a previous post, the question was something along the lines of "Where do the Army get there views of the RDF?"
Now I answered that guy with a God honest truthful answer....but in this case the truth hurts. We're all on the same side at the end of the day and integrated training is providing a huge boost for the RDF, which is ultimatly a great thing for all serving or part-time members.

A lot of young lads/ladies come through these forums and ask "whats Army life like?" "will RDF training stand to me in the Army?" "will I ever see my family again if I join?" Now we could all say to them "oh go on to Youtube and watch the "life less ordinary" advertisement, everything you need to know is in that add!" or "go onto www.military.ie for all your information."
None of that is going to help them with their questions.

On the other hand serving members of the Army/Navy/AC could answer their questions as truthfully as possible and might even prepare a few of them for the shock of the transition from being a civvie to becoming a soldier.

This works exceptionally well for people who have no connection to the military at all and don't have the luxury of asking questions of people they no in the service.

The Army is a harsh job anyone that doesn't think so is kidding themselves.
It does take that extra little bit of effort to stick with it and make a career out of it.
Luckily for me I was in the job and all before the "life less ordinary" propaganda campaign hit the airwaves I do feel sorry for all those that joined who thought they'd be playing Volley Ball with villagers in a far off land :P

I've tryed my best not to sound condesending in my posts (although some people do ask for it) and hoped I conveyed a decent enough answer to those RDF personnel who always wondered why they recieve a condesending attitude for Army personnel.

As for those personnel who want to feel grateful in my presence...please bring your gratitude elsewhere, as long as you have a beret on your head, hands out of your pockets and all your buttons closed, we'll get along fine

iceage

"And breath innnn............" :P

arybvtcw0eolkf

Great reading Larry, I can hardly wait for the next installment

Seriously, really good and saying it how it is. I felt like I was sitting in the 'canner listening to the lads!.

jake59

Hard Larry wrote: »

I've tryed my best not to sound condesending in my posts (although some people do ask for it) and hoped I conveyed a decent enough answer to those RDF personnel who always wondered why they recieve a condesending attitude for Army personnel.

As for those personnel who want to feel grateful in my presence...please bring your gratitude elsewhere, as long as you have a beret on your head, hands out of your pockets and all your buttons closed, we'll get along fine

Excellent post Larry. Hopefully potential recruits will have a more rounded view of the army before they join up as it is a pity to see good talent leave early because it's not all they thought it would be. There are great experiences to be had and lifelong friends to be made which stands you in good stead for the rest of your life whether you decide to make a career of it or move onto bigger and better things elsewhere.

iceage

Agreed, major reality check there Hard larry. Well said.

Manic Moran

I can only imagine what lads from other nations are going through in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Fatalistic acceptance that echelons above reality will give out dictats that somehow make sense in their own minds*, and that those of us on the pointy end simply create a 'backs against the wall, us vs them' attitude. What's the worst that they could do to us? Send us to Iraq? Plenty of griping, of course, but generally with no small amount of black humour. If course, if you're in a tank, you don't let small things like the gate barriers slow you down.

NTM

*I went to a war, and a garrison broke out.

greenarrow

I know a few guys who are ex-PDF and are in the RDF. There are a few good heads in there and they are an asset to the organisation in terms of the experience that they are bringing to it.
Unfortunately, they are few and far between.

However, I do agree with the quote about there being a difference with a guy who has three years and retired twenty years ago compared with a guy with twenty retired three years. Most definitely is a bigger difference.

I wouldn't go all the way out and say that all ex-PDF serving in the RDF are the business. I met one guy who was ex-PDF and he is with the RDF HQ in Cathal Brugha. Who I would say is definitely an example of someone I never want to bump into again. And that is because he was a guy who should never have been in the army, let alone the RDF. He is just a tool and I am not sure what he was smoking, but loads of the stories he was telling me about being overseas where for Kosovo/Lebanon yet the dates didn't add up. I don't even think he was in the PDF to be honest, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

So sometimes having ex-PDF in the organisation is not necessarily a good thing. I was wondering if anyone else has the same opinion, and I will also say that he is the only ex-PDF guy I ever met in the reserves that brings it down.
Overall though, all the ex-PDF members I have encountered who are in the reserves say that it is a good organisation to be in and that when they ended up on the other side of the fence, they came to see that 90% of the tales they heard about it have no substance to them whatsoever. And now they speak highly of the organisation, but they do say it is lagging behind the PDF but that is only because of decisions made on a higher level with admin, equopment and so on.

But they do reckon that the potential is there for reservists going overseas to actually be a success.

Manic Moran

So sometimes having ex-PDF in the organisation is not necessarily a good thing. I was wondering if anyone else has the same opinion, and I will also say that he is the only ex-PDF guy I ever met in the reserves that brings it down.

From the National Guard perspective, it's a very good thing. A large portion of us are prior-service, and it means that the knowledge base in a Guard unit is often higher than that of an Active Duty unit given that most guys in AD have just their AD time, whilst a large bunch of Guardsmen have both AD time and NG time. It's very hard to find a more capable mechanic or recovery vehicle operator than that grizzled old Master Sergeant or Warrant Officer who thinks he's too old to continue to play Active Duty games and politics, but wants to keep his hand in. Similarly we also get a bunch of mid-level NCOs (Particularly former Marines) who have decided to have a 'normal' life, but still have the mindset of discipline and authority fresh in their minds.

As regards your ex PDF guy, he needs to be slapped down by your NCOs and made to understand that his extra time and knowledge is a resource to be shared with the rest of the unit, not a crutch for him to slag people off or to rest on and do nothing. I understand that disciplining is a far more difficult thing to do in the RDF than the Guard, but that's the only viable answer. If you have any other ex PDF guys in the unit, maybe you can get them to help you sort him out.

I think that's part of the vicious circle. There weren't many ex PDF around during my FCA days. My guess is because the same standards cannot (not won't, cannot) be enforced. They may view the organisation as something beneath them, a second-tier event, and not join. This reduces the amount of mindset and knowledge filtering into the RDF from the PDF, feeding in on itself.

NTM

greenarrow

Exactly. Although what I was referring to was the guy in question harping on about his experiences in the PDF. But I think he was spinning a few tall tales in my opinion. And I would say that he should just let the army go because he was one of those people that embarrass the uniform.
And I think he was like that in the PDF too. I heard tales about him from people that know him. Less said the better.

I am in the Western Brigade, but I happened to bump into this guy over in Cathal Brugha. But hopefully it will be the last time I do. So I don't think its my place to discipline this guy. (Even though he should be discharged).

But overall, ex-PDF personnel are an asset to the organisation that is the RDF. And even they say that the potential is there for the overseas missions with reservists to work. And their opinion has to count as much as that of someone in the PDF.

jooin

Can the rdf be deployed over the same as pdf

Negative_G

jooin wrote: »

Can the rdf be deployed over the same as pdf

In short, no.

With any luck it will remain that way. At present there are more than enough PDF personnel to fill vacancies overseas.