A proper prison.

leninbenjamin

if you were already caught stealing chocolate twice, and knew the third time would land you in jail, and still you steal chocolate, then frankly you should be exterminated for your stupidity. life sentence is weak.

'Ol Jack Chance

leninbenjamin wrote: »

if you were already caught stealing chocolate twice, and knew the third time would land you in jail, and still you steal chocolate, then frankly you should be exterminated for your stupidity. life sentence is weak.

Life sentence in this country doesn't even mean life! i mean come on at least dont call it a life sentence if your gonna get paroled (sp?) in your life

Irishcrx

I'm afraid I don't agree with this, i'm all for tougher sentences etc but this guy is a control freak , he's a cruel person and obviously enjoys watching suffering, making people walk around in pink boxer shorts is degrading he probably gets his kicks out of it, taking away TV, gym equipment , books, magazines , overworking in that kind of heat is inhumane criminal or not people do have rights as human beings. I think this can have as bad effect as a good one, with nothing to do on a 8 year sentence this kind of thing could warp your mind even worst build up alot of hate and when released someone might snap and say shoot up a school?...It would be fine to just lock them up, keep them active working no need for all this.

marti101

cornbb wrote: »

In the US over 50% of state prisoners are incarcerated for non-violent or victimless offenses. In California, people have been convicted for 25 years to life for crimes such as stealing chocolate chip cookies under the 3 Strikes law. Many nonviolent offenders are drug users who need rehabilitation, not imprisonment which will neither rehabilitate them nor protect society from them.

I don't think anyone ever considers prison to be a "night at the Ritz". If we are to set about stripping people of their human rights or dignity, or imposing cruel/unusual punishment, perhaps the punishment should be put into perspective alongside the crime that has actually been committed. Run along with your pitchforks now.

I agree if the crime is not having a tv licence then they shouldnt have such a hard punishment but we are talking bout rapists murders then i think the government should come down hard and think about the victims and not the crims.And about a night at the ritz some jails have better facilities than tax paying people can afford its just not on that they can sit in jail and play videogames

Dudess

Irishcrx wrote: »

I'm afraid I don't agree with this, i'm all for tougher sentences etc but this guy is a control freak , he's a cruel person and obviously enjoys watching suffering, making people walk around in pink boxer shorts is degrading he probably gets his kicks out of it, taking away TV, gym equipment , books, magazines , overworking in that kind of heat is inhumane criminal or not people do have rights as human beings. I think this can have as bad effect as a good one, with nothing to do on a 8 year sentence this kind of thing could warp your mind even worst build up alot of hate and when released someone might snap and say shoot up a school?...It would be fine to just lock them up, keep them active working no need for all this.

Yep, some dehumanised people aren't gonna give a sh1t about going back to prison. Paddy Hill of the Birmingham Six is completely fcked up and has said if the rage he's feeling ever drives him to killing someone (and he says he wouldn't be surprised if that happened) the prison sentence won't bother him - as long as he's guilty.

SimpleSam06

Irishcrx wrote: »

making people walk around in pink boxer shorts is degrading he probably gets his kicks out of it

Prisoners kept stealing the other boxers, so he changed the colour to pink.

I watched the show on this prison, it was very interesting. It didn't look particularly cruel to me, if I had to go to prison I'd rather be in an airy tent looking up at the blue sky than stuck in a concrete box. They did adopt a zero tolerance policy, with raids by a tac team at random intervals, keeping the prisoners in a permanent state of terror, but seriously, its prison.

Which brings us to another point - prisons aren't for rehabilitation, to make people better. They are for punishment, to make them suffer. There is no question about this. Thats not right or whats best for society, but thats the way it is.

If we really want a long term answer to criminality, we need to look for different solutions.

'Ol Jack Chance

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Which brings us to another point - prisons aren't for rehabilitation, to make people better. They are for punishment, to make them suffer. There is no question about this. Thats not right or whats best for society, but thats the way it is.

The idea behind prison is to rehabilite the prisoner not to punish them. To rehabilitate them and then reintegrate them to society. We all know this doesnt work in practice but thats ideology behind prison and parole. otherwise whats the point in building prisons and spending however much to feed and clothe them.

cornbb

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

prisons aren't for rehabilitation, to make people better. They are for punishment, to make them suffer. There is no question about this

Really? Thats your opinion? Don't you think prisons should have some sort of positive goal (rehabilitation of the prisoner, the protection of the rest of society, cutting down crime) rather than just the imposition of suffering?

I wholeheartedly agree that wrongdoers should be punished, I just think the imposition of suffering in itself isn't going to make the world a better place - if we are going to lock people up we might as well try to make society a better place for it, rather than just making people suffer for the sake of suffering. Genuine rehabilitation might actually reform criminals and cut down on re-offenders. Cruel and unusual punishment just makes bitter, angry animals of them.

I also agree that its ridiculous that playstations, budgies, phones etc are allowed in Irish prisons. The conditions described in that article are the other extreme though, they are degrading and were abandoned in most civilised parts of the world many decades ago.

chopperbyrne

cornbb wrote: »

Really? Thats your opinion? Don't you think prisons should have some sort of positive goal (rehabilitation of the prisoner, the protection of the rest of society, cutting down crime) rather than just the imposition of suffering?

I wholeheartedly agree that wrongdoers should be punished, I just think the imposition of suffering in itself isn't going to make the world a better place - if we are going to lock people up we might as well try to make society a better place for it, rather than just making people suffer for the sake of suffering. Genuine rehabilitation might actually reform criminals and cut down on re-offenders. Cruel and unusual punishment just makes bitter, angry animals of them.

I also agree that its ridiculous that playstations, budgies, phones etc are allowed in Irish prisons. The conditions described in that article are the other extreme though, they are degrading and were abandoned in most civilised parts of the world many decades ago.

Did you even read his post? He said that's what they are now, but we need to change in order to cut crime and prevent reoffense.

cornbb

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Did you even read his post? He said that's what they are now, but we need to change in order to cut crime and prevent reoffense.

You're right, I re-read his post and I'm an idiot. D'oh, sorry >.<

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Prisoners kept stealing the other boxers, so he changed the colour to pink.

I watched the show on this prison, it was very interesting. It didn't look particularly cruel to me, if I had to go to prison I'd rather be in an airy tent looking up at the blue sky than stuck in a concrete box. They did adopt a zero tolerance policy, with raids by a tac team at random intervals, keeping the prisoners in a permanent state of terror, but seriously, its prison.

Which brings us to another point - prisons aren't for rehabilitation, to make people better. They are for punishment, to make them suffer. There is no question about this. Thats not right or whats best for society, but thats the way it is.

If we really want a long term answer to criminality, we need to look for different solutions.

1 -Woo hoo! Legalised terrorism!
2 - You are JOKING! How, in the name of all that is holy, do you expect the reoffending rate to go down? And DO NOT say fear, because that CLEARLY doesn;t work!

No question, my left testicle!

chopperbyrne

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

1 -Woo hoo! Legalised terrorism!
2 - You are JOKING! How, in the name of all that is holy, do you expect the reoffending rate to go down? And DO NOT say fear, because that CLEARLY doesn;t work!

No question, my left testicle!

See above :rolleyes:

Daftendirekt

Irishcrx wrote: »

I'm afraid I don't agree with this, i'm all for tougher sentences etc but this guy is a control freak , he's a cruel person and obviously enjoys watching suffering, making people walk around in pink boxer shorts is degrading he probably gets his kicks out of it, taking away TV, gym equipment , books, magazines , overworking in that kind of heat is inhumane criminal or not people do have rights as human beings. I think this can have as bad effect as a good one, with nothing to do on a 8 year sentence this kind of thing could warp your mind even worst build up alot of hate and when released someone might snap and say shoot up a school?...It would be fine to just lock them up, keep them active working no need for all this.

+1

Prison should be tough, but it shouldn't be run by sadists.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

chopperbyrne wrote: »

See above :rolleyes:

see below...? Make sense!

Dudess

Irishcrx wrote: »

I'm afraid I don't agree with this, i'm all for tougher sentences etc but this guy is a control freak , he's a cruel person and obviously enjoys watching suffering, making people walk around in pink boxer shorts is degrading he probably gets his kicks out of it, taking away TV, gym equipment , books, magazines , overworking in that kind of heat is inhumane criminal or not people do have rights as human beings. I think this can have as bad effect as a good one, with nothing to do on a 8 year sentence this kind of thing could warp your mind even worst build up alot of hate and when released someone might snap and say shoot up a school?...It would be fine to just lock them up, keep them active working no need for all this.

Yep. He just seems like a horrible bully who wants to get paid for pushing people around, so he gravitated towards law enforcement. No doubt that's not unusual, but he's particularly extreme.

Adam

All this "rehabilitation" bullcrap grates me the wrong way.

If I ever committed a serious crime, say I landed myself with 10 years in the slammer, I know in myself I would hate it, whether it was an Irish prison system or our good sheriffs idealogy there. I would hate it so much I would do anything in my power to not end up back inside.

But that's me. Merely serving the time would be rehabilitating enough. The potential sentences should be a deterrent. So if I knew I was going to spend ten years in hell for a crime, I wouldn't commit the crime.

Some people can't be rehabilitated, they just don't care enough. So thinking you can send a mass murderer away and cross your fingers and hope that he is rehabilitated when he comes out again is pointless. And whatever hope there may be of that happening, I would wager he is less likely to reoffend having the sentence in the sheriffs prison looming over his head than if he had the sentence in our prison system looming over his head.

In short, the sentence is the rehabilitation for regular folk like you or I. For the extremists, not so much. So a seriously tough jailbird lifestyle should act as a deterent. With tough sentences, the folk that can be rehabilitated would probably be less likely to offend ever, and the extremists that do end up inside deserve the hell they've earned, knowing full well what they would be in for before committing the crime.

kowloon

With SimpleSam on this; prison is all about punishment, keeping the victims, or the victims family, happy that something has been done. It doesn't rehabilitate anyone.

I question the worth of any system that results in the prisoners being released back into the population with years of built up resentment only exacerbated by the harshness of the regime.

If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. - Niccolo Mahiavelli.

Dyr

I saw a thing on this fella, he came across as a right pr**k, repeatedly jailing people with drink problems until they got sick of it and moved out of the county.


Anyway we should be modelling ourselves on the japanese prison system, no messing there i tells ya!

Voodu Child

terry wrote: »

When Asked Why The Weather Channel, He Replied: "so These Morons Will Know How Hot It's Gonna Be While They Are Working On My Chain Gangs."

Lol

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Aould simplesam, mirror, chopperbyrne (if I did misunderstand you and youweren't condoning terrorism and reoffending, I wasn;t sure) or some other fvckwit-conservative guntoter who juts wants a bit of comuppance PLEASE answer my previous post about how you put an end to reoffending...?

"Oooh, they should be so scared that they don;t want to go back in jail...?" Yes. They're going to be terrified. Hmm... don't wanna go back there, must get a job and go straihgt? Are you for real?

Yes, make it tough, yes make it horrible, but if you don't want to rehabiliatate, get a fvcking revolving door put in! And DON'T WHINGE when the rapist who served 20 years of hell but didn;t get rehabilitated comes out and rapes your daughter/sister/girlfriend on the way home from the pub.

Agamemnon

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

prisons aren't for rehabilitation, to make people better. They are for punishment, to make them suffer. There is no question about this. Thats not right or whats best for society, but thats the way it is.

'Ol wrote:

The idea behind prison is to rehabilite the prisoner not to punish them. To rehabilitate them and then reintegrate them to society.

Prisons should do both - punish criminals by depriving them of their liberty and luxuries but they should reform prisoners as well. Prisons should be strict but they shouldn't be medieval. For instance, prisoners should not be allowed their own tvs and games consoles. Instead the only private entertainment they get should be books. Teach the illiterate ones to read and make education compulsory. Once they stopped throwing tantrums about it, most of them would benefit from a few years reading, rather than **** to Baywatch re-runs.

As well as punishment and rehabilitation, the third, often overlooked, function of prisons is to protect society from convicted criminals. This gives their victims a chance to recover and get on with their lives. Those who want prisons for rehabilitation only often overlook this. Victims of rape and attempted murder should not have suffer seeing their attackers back on the streets after a brief stay in prison, however rehabilitated they claim to be.

SimpleSam06

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

2 - You are JOKING! How, in the name of all that is holy, do you expect the reoffending rate to go down? And DO NOT say fear, because that CLEARLY doesn;t work!

I don't expect recidivism to go down, and it doesn't. That was the point of my post, as chopper pointed out to you.

'Ol wrote:

The idea behind prison is to rehabilite the prisoner not to punish them. To rehabilitate them and then reintegrate them to society. We all know this doesnt work in practice but thats ideology behind prison and parole.

You can dress it up fancy and take it out to dinner, but it will still be a pig. Whatever pleasantries are mouthed by social reformers, you are in prison because you were convicted of breaking the laws of the land, and you will pay for that transgression with suffering and isolation until those laws are satisfied. Its not pretty but thats the system we have right now.

We do need a better way going forward, I believe. What that might be is open for debate.

cornbb

Agamemnon wrote: »

Prisons should do both - punish criminals by depriving them of their liberty and luxuries but they should reform prisoners as well. Prisons should be strict but they shouldn't be medieval. For instance, prisoners should not be allowed their own tvs and games consoles. Instead the only private entertainment they get should be books. Teach the illiterate ones to read and make education compulsory. Once they stopped throwing tantrums about it, most of them would benefit from a few years reading, rather than **** to Baywatch re-runs.

As well as punishment and rehabilitation, the third, often overlooked, function of prisons is to protect society from convicted criminals. This gives their victims a chance to recover and get on with their lives. Those who want prisons for rehabilitation only often overlook this. Victims of rape and attempted murder should not have suffer seeing their attackers back on the streets after a brief stay in prison, however rehabilitated they claim to be.

^ Excellent post right there.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

I don't expect recidivism to go down, and it doesn't.

So....

Yours truly wrote:

DON'T WHINGE when the rapist who served 20 years of hell but didn;t get rehabilitated comes out and rapes your daughter/sister/girlfriend on the way home from the pub.

Trojan911

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

I watched the show on this prison, it was very interesting.

I saw the show as well. Right & Proper too, fair play to the prison Guv'nor. I like his attitude....

Adam

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Aould simplesam, mirror, chopperbyrne (if I did misunderstand you and youweren't condoning terrorism and reoffending, I wasn;t sure) or some other fvckwit-conservative guntoter who juts wants a bit of comuppance PLEASE answer my previous post about how you put an end to reoffending...?

"Oooh, they should be so scared that they don;t want to go back in jail...?" Yes. They're going to be terrified. Hmm... don't wanna go back there, must get a job and go straihgt? Are you for real?

Yes, make it tough, yes make it horrible, but if you don't want to rehabiliatate, get a fvcking revolving door put in! And DON'T WHINGE when the rapist who served 20 years of hell but didn;t get rehabilitated comes out and rapes your daughter/sister/girlfriend on the way home from the pub.

Define rehabilitated?

Bottom line for me is not rehabilitation, but the likeliness to reoffend. That's as far as rehabilitation is going to get in any prison system I'd say. And as I outlined in my previous post, someone like me wouldn't knowingly commit a crime that would land me in prison for ten years. So I wouldn't need to be rehabilitated. I sure as sh1t wouldn't reoffend. So what do you expect we can do with people who knowingly commit serious crimes? Do you think we can rehabilitate them?

leninbenjamin

'Ol wrote:

Life sentence in this country doesn't even mean life! i mean come on at least dont call it a life sentence if your gonna get paroled (sp?) in your life

? since when was this a discussion about this country? I was responding to posts about the 3 strike rule in California. and you took the post waaaay to seriously. kinda scary...

marti101

Dudess wrote: »

I'd be afraid of them going in bad enough and coming out utter psychos after spending time in those conditions.

But dont you see they were psychos before they went toprison.Now im not saying its alright to beat the crap out of a blind person but were do we draw the line,people are getting murdered over the stupidist things because the criminals dont have any fear.They know they will get very little time in prison,time off for good behaviour,so we have to do something drastic to make them realise you have to pay for your crimes.Because the prisons we have now are no deterrent ,they have better facilities than even i can afford

sunnyjim

As Martin Cahill, a.k.a. The General once said;

"I think I need a spell in the 'joy, to recharge these batteries of mine"

BJTI
- Bring Joe To Ireland! -

knird evol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9xQccIG4oE