A proper prison.

Degsy

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Might I ask for where you learned of this? I do the odd bit of personal research into criminal law and the american penal system and have a bit of an interest in it, this stuff is shocking, but something that I came across a fair few times.

I had a "colourfull" youth;)

Lockstep

Degsy wrote: »

I had a "colourfull" youth;)

Ah yeah, interesting stuff all the same.

Cheers.

Dudess

Stekelly wrote: »

clap clap. good arguement. when your against something, just chuck in a negative buzz word.

Actually no. My point was, your statement below is ridiculously black and white:

Stekelly wrote: »

I dont care what hardship prisoners have to put up with inside. It's a prison.

Just because it's a prison doesn't mean there can be no limit to what the inmates endure - as well as the staff. Can't be too good for their psychological well-being either when some bully systematically strips prisoners of their dignity and makes them suffer needlessly - and very much seems to enjoy it.

pirelli

Terry wrote: »

USA JAIL - SOME INTERESTING READING
TO THOSE OF YOU NOT FAMILIAR WITH JOE ARPAIO, HE IS THE MARICOPA COUNTY SHERIFF
(ARIZONA)
Sheriff Joe was just re-elected as Sheriff in Maricopa County , Arizona

I for one support this man and his ways.
See pdf for pics.

The Segment on Joe Arpaio starts at 6.30min/sec. He runs one of the few prisons that still use a controversial restraint chair which has resulted in several deaths. The prison he runs is will see someone arrested for J walking possibly being killed.

Degsy

Dudess wrote: »

Actually no. My point was, your statement below is ridiculously black and white:

Just because it's a prison doesn't mean there can be no limit to what the inmates endure - as well as the staff. Can't be too good for their psychological well-being either when some bully systematically strips prisoners of their dignity and makes them suffer needlessly - and very much seems to enjoy it.

Maximum security facilities in america are designed to rob the inmatesUTTERLY of any dignity they may have.This is done through constant searches,dehumanising rituals and denial of any level of humanity.Fine you say,they deserve it.BUT..it only serves to make the inmates more inhumane,it strips them of whatever humanity the once had and turns them robustly against the system,regardless of how minor the offence was originally.Check out the Bravo documentary Brits Behind Bars..

Adam

Methinks Bravo is being relied on too heavily. I mean come on. It's Bravo...

Lockstep

Only going on stuff I've read here, but Degsy has a point.

Can;t remember the names of most of the books I've read on it but ones such as Fish by TJ Parsell, Behind Bars by Jefrey Ian Ross and Stephen C Richards and Life in Prison by Stanley Williams seem to point out the same things.

javaboy

Why not use anaesthesia to induce a (ideally dreamless) sleep in inmates? Maybe put them to sleep for every 2 days out of three. On the waking day they can get a little exercise to stop muscular atrophy. They would be drip fed on the sleep days.

Ideally what I'd like to see is some kind of stasis/cryogenic process thing but one that allows you to age. Then a 7 year prison sentence would literally be taking 7 years of your life.

Adam

Oh I don't doubt Degsey's word. I do doubt Bravo though.

Honestly, I don't think there's any one catchall solution to the prison dilemma. If it were me, it would be a strict regime of early to rise, early to bed, and 90% of time outside their individual cells should be dedicated to something productive/constructive towards the community they are meant to be a part of, and will return to some day. No luxuries, consoles/cable/hookers etc. maybe some radio or tv news to keep them tied into activity in the outside world.

But not pleasant. Never pleasant.

Lockstep

Mirror wrote: »

Oh I don't doubt Degsey's word. I do doubt Bravo though.

Honestly, I don't think there's any one catchall solution to the prison dilemma. If it were me, it would be a strict regime of early to rise, early to bed, and 90% of time outside their individual cells should be dedicated to something productive/constructive towards the community they are meant to be a part of, and will return to some day. No luxuries, consoles/cable/hookers etc. maybe some radio or tv news to keep them tied into activity in the outside world.

But not pleasant. Never pleasant.

I agree, except for the no hookers bit.

Although some form of solitary would be needed to stop violators of the system who can't be let outside. Although Javaboys method is an excellent one, although ethical questions come into play.

Adam

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I agree, except for the no hookers bit.

Although some form of solitary would be needed to stop violators of the system who can't be let outside. Although Javaboys method is an excellent one, although ethical questions come into play.

All this talk of hookers... I think you're planning to get locked up some day!

Lockstep

No, I just think it'd lead to calmer prisoners. Methinks sex is something to encourage there, especially conjugals.

I'd also be in favor of marijauna in prisons.


I think it was Charles Bronson (the prisoner, not the movie star) who said that the screws preferred cons on pot as it meant they were calm and better than hyper cons bouncing off walls.

bleg

Dudess wrote: »

Exactly. I read all this talk of "Oh de 'Joy is like a hotel" etc... Eh, it isn't. It's a scary as **** place to be.

good

javaboy

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Although Javaboys method is an excellent one, although ethical questions come into play.

Out of interest, if it was theoretically possible to stick a prisoner in stasis for the duration of their sentence and they would still get older, what would the ethical questions be?

One I can think of is not being able to appeal or better yourself in any way while in prison.

Any other major ones?

javaboy

kickoutthejams wrote: »

No, I just think it'd lead to calmer prisoners. Methinks sex is something to encourage there, especially conjugals.

I'd also be in favor of marijauna in prisons.


I think it was Charles Bronson (the prisoner, not the movie star) who said that the screws preferred cons on pot as it meant they were calm and better than hyper cons bouncing off walls.

Neither of them were born Charles Bronson fwiw.

Lockstep

Ethical questions: it's basically the prison service achknowledging that they are unable to rehabilitate the prisoners. Also means they are lying around for 2 days outta three, when they come out they'll be good for little.

Side note: would lead to a cut in guards, less are needed so could really those American towns that rely on the prison for employment.

Lockstep

javaboy wrote: »

Neither of them were born Charles Bronson fwiw.

Ok, Charlie Bronson, or Michael Gordon Peterson.
I would imagine people would know him better as Charlie Bronson seeing as that's the name printed as the author.

Degsy

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Ok, Charlie Bronson, or Michael Gordon Peterson.
I would imagine people would know him better as Charlie Bronson seeing as that's the name printed as the author.

He's a fool.He wasnt out of prison ten minutes and he started kidnapping people.He turned a two year robbery sentence into a life senetnce and he blames the prison service.I blame the stupid bastards who read his books,decide they can live vicariuosly through this "upstanding criminal" and petiion thehome office for his release.Meanwhile he's selling books n stuff based on his moniker as being "the hardest con in britain".If he shut his gob and people who know nothing stopped bigging him up,he'd been out years ago.The home office are never going to release somebody because he's totally mad but "at least he isnt a paedophile"

Lockstep

Degsy wrote: »

He's a fool.He wasnt out of prison ten minutes and he started kidnapping people.He turned a two year robbery sentence into a life senetnce and he blames the prison service.I blame the stupid bastards who read his books,decide they can live vicariuosly through this "upstanding criminal" and petiion thehome office for his release.Meanwhile he's selling books n stuff based on his moniker as being "the hardest con in britain".If he shut his gob and people who know nothing stopped bigging him up,he'd been out years ago.The home office are never going to release somebody because he's totally mad but "at least he isnt a paedophile"

Woah, wasn't bigging him up at all. I've only read one of his books (as it described various British prisons) and didn;t bother reading the backround to his cases.

Was just referring to his quote on weed in prisons.

Degsy

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Woah, wasn't bigging him up at all. I've only read one of his books (as it described various British prisons) and didn;t bother reading the backround to his cases.

Was just referring to his quote on weed in prisons.

Dats cool.A lot of people read books by halfwits(like CB),believe everything they read and then start demanding his release.The worst thing they could do..the home office in the UK doesnt want to make folk heroes out of lowlifes so they'll keep them in longer.

lostexpectation

Steve_o wrote: »

Fair play to Sheriff Joe... If only they did that here (rain instead of mad heat), that'd learn them scumbags!

this sys tem doens't sound too bad but

when will people realise the removing somebody's liberty is the point of prison and punishment enough.

Mahatma coat

I'd be in favour of gassing the repeat offenders/unrepentent element.

quick and easy solution, like the 3 strikes rule, get sent to prison 3 times and the third Will be your LAST,

life will mean life and it will also mean about 3 weeks

Terry

I put this to the nay sayers: Were a violent person to attack you, how would you like to see them serve their time?

SimpleSam06

Terry wrote: »

I put this to the nay sayers: Were a violent person to attack you, how would you like to see them serve their time?

Hogotied with a pineapple up their arse while singing the national anthem from dawn to dusk of course. Ah no just kidding Terry.

I think the blanket term "crime" is like the blanket term "cancer". You can't apply the same cure to every single person and expect it to work. For some, standard prison might prevent recidivism. For others, a full course of brainwashing and reprogramming in the finest traditions of cults in the US would do the trick. For others, a stiff fine, and others counselling and education to give them a fresh start. Maybe something like the foreign legion would straighten others out.

Violent attacks on a person aren't a simple crime, you need to look at the motivation. Something like a bollix happy slapping people might be solved with a public caning and a few days in the stocks. Someone strung out on heroin should be weaned off the stuff and the work off the damage they have caused. A drunken assault based on imagined insults, a stint in the slammer and a fine to remind them not to do it again, or possibly higher car insurance premiums.

Edit: I think the crucial weakness in the prison system is it was designed by normal people to scare normal people into behaving well. However when it runs into abnormal people, for whatever reason, be it drink or drugs or a crappy childhood, it serves neither to deter nor to rehabilitate, because it wasn't designed for them.

Wertz

Terry wrote: »

I put this to the nay sayers: Were a violent person to attack you, how would you like to see them serve their time?

For me that's not a hypothetical question...myself and a mate and his g/f were violently attacked at random by a gang some years back....some of the scumabgs were caught, some weren't. Of those caught and charged, only half of them did actual jail time...about 9 months of an 18 month sentence, the rest either got off with suspended (after a jury found them guilty) or were never charged.
We still live with the physical and emotional scars of a violent assault...the guys who did jail were walking the streets a year later, and some went on to do the same to other people, as they'd done to us.
It doesn't matter how they did their time....it was an Irish prison so it was the same as any other convict....my biggest qualm is that they weren't sentenced to or lept long enough, and that in the proces it cost the country a hundred grand or thereabouts to keep them off the street.

How would I like to have seen them serve their time? Longer sentences, less privilieges, enforced hard labour; make these guys pay for their keep for christ sake....but no matter how hurt I or my friends were, I wouldn't really have wanted to see them tortured a lá this sadist warden. It's not up to the State to carry out retribution on my behalf...its up to the state to protect me and other citizens from violent criminals of this type.

Mossy Monk

Chain gangs and hard physical labour ftw.

Dudess

Terry wrote: »

I put this to the nay sayers: Were a violent person to attack you, how would you like to see them serve their time?

It's very easy to throw that one out. People's emotions shouldn't cloud policy-making decisions. A prison can be harsh without what that thug resorts to. He's only fulfilling a need he has to bully. If he wasn't a sheriff, he'd find some other outlet to do so.

The Fritzl case really, really enraged and upset me - probably more so than anything else. I was thinking "that bastard should be tortured" and then I came back to reality. Prison guards, agents of the state, torturing someone systematically - no matter what they did - is a most unsettling thought.

lostexpectation

Terry wrote: »

I put this to the nay sayers: Were a violent person to attack you, how would you like to see them serve their time?

i like them to be locked up for decent stretch, imaging not able to go anyone where do what ever you want for a year!!!! i atually can't imagine and obviously you can't either.

anyone here been in jail for a fari while can they tell us what it like to locked up for months or years on end.