is sepp blatter trying to ruin english football

Dues Bellator

with sepp blatter trying to bring in the rule were each team must have 6 english players in there team ,it seems obvious to me that him and platini will and probley can ruin english football as we know it, the top four clubs could probley survive such a ruling, but as for the rest i think will struggle as the top 24 english players will be head hunted by the so called big four as they have the crazy money that will turn these players heads no matter how loyal there seem. it just seem crazy and down right immoral that such a thing could even be suggested, spain italy holland even france would struggle with such a ruling ,i feel its a real case of jelousy "hey the english are getting too big for my liking mmmm lets make up a stupid rule and piss them off" i feel those actuall words were spoken, what you all think

leninbenjamin

Is almanu trying to ruin the English language?

seriously. that's hard to make sense of.

anonymous_joe

I think Blatter mentioned he was unhappy with so many English teams in the semis of the Champions League, but I can't be certain.

The concept of the multi-national big teams, be they Spanish, English or Italian is unpopular with FIFA. They've always wanted to do away with it. The EU won't let them though. Guys like Blatter want a more even playing field because they think that will increase competition, thus interest and of course then make their organisation richer.

Eirebear

The paranoia coming from english football at the moment is ludicrous.

EVERY country will have to deal with this, and every country will have to sort out their youth acadamies and scouting systems to suit.

Its not UEFA's fault that english money and english arrogance has led to them not bringing their systems up to the standards of other countries.

estebancambias

I hate the way an Irish poster cares that much about English football.

mike65

Non story - EU law won't allow this (OhNoYouDidn't will be along any second now to tell us otherwise).

Mike

Savman

He's trying to ruin all football, not just English although there's defo a gripe held towards the Brits in FIFA HQ.
Feckin Blatter, hope he gets his ridiculous scheme crushed by the EU. Still won't stop the usless git from conjuring up more half baked "improvements" to the beautiful game.
Golden Goal, no wait Silver Goal, no wait Golden Goal, actually let's scrap both and stick with Extra Time :rolleyes:
He's all for these stoopid ideas but yet completely shies away from what the game really needs, goal line technology and instant replays for referees.

He's obviously not a fan of all things English, seems quite clear from the stance him and his aristocrat buddies take on pretty much everything.

No, I'm not his biggest fan.

DSB

estebancambias wrote: »

I hate the way an Irish poster cares that much about English football.

I was gonna say this myself.

Charlie

Eirebear wrote: »

The paranoia coming from english football at the moment is ludicrous.

EVERY country will have to deal with this, and every country will have to sort out their youth acadamies and scouting systems to suit.

Its not UEFA's fault that english money and english arrogance has led to them not bringing their systems up to the standards of other countries.

I would have to disagree with you there. I think the paranoia is justified. Whilst there are times the English blow such issues OTT (they seem to have a fear of their soveringty being yanked form them), in this instance, they are right to be worried.

No other league will be hit as hard as the EPL will be. I am not saying that they are not responsible themselves fro this predicament, but they are right to be bricking it. The vast majority of teams in Italy and Spain would coast through this ruling, as would German, French and Portuguese teams.

However, after spending a fair bit of time studying EU law as part of my degree and Masters, I cannot see Blatter getting his way. The ECJ will not compromise in any manner when it comes to the application of Art. 39.

iregk

The EU law doesn't actually cover this and can't stop it. FIFA have been very clever here. If this was a limit on foreign players then yes EU employment laws kick in and we have a court case. However this is not a limit on foreign players its a promotion of homegrown.

Now I know its effectively the same thing however by using the homegrown unberella the EU's hands are pretty tied on this one as its not discrimination is promotion of local resources.

I think this is a great rule as it will force big clubs to work the academy and again use the scouting network rather than thrown money at big players. The only problem I have with it is that the Emile Heskeys of the world will now become 10mill more expensive purely for being home grown.

Eirebear

charlie mchugh wrote: »

I would have to disagree with you there. I think the paranoia is justified. Whilst there are times the English blow such issues OTT (they seem to have a fear of their soveringty being yanked form them), in this instance, they are right to be worried.

No other league will be hit as hard as the EPL will be. I am not saying that they are not responsible themselves fro this predicament, but they are right to be bricking it. The vast majority of teams in Italy and Spain would coast through this ruling, as would German, French and Portuguese teams.

However, after spending a fair bit of time studying EU law as part of my degree and Masters, I cannot see Blatter getting his way. The ECJ will not compromise in any manner when it comes to the application of Art. 39.

Im not denying England will be hit hard.

But the feeling that Uefa are attempting to kill english football is nothing but arrogance.

Charlie

Eirebear wrote: »

But the feeling that Uefa are attempting to kill english football is nothing but arrogance.

In fairness though, I haven't seen anyone actually say that. That's hearsay if anything. But it is true that Blatter isn't big on the EPL or the FA for that matter. I mean, he seems to make it his job to prevent England from hosting a world cup, which given their history, stadium, and infrastructure, is a joke.

Savman

So, pray tell, will Irish players be considered as "foreign" in the Premiership? Or what the hell is the criteria that these geniuses have come up with?

IMHO "foreigners" are the best thing to happen to the PL, imagine not getting the chance to see Juninho, Zola or Bergkamp in action :eek:

The more I think about it, I wouldn't be surprised if the FA are pushing this intiative because as good as their top league is, they have forever blamed the national team's failures on the influx of foreigners, money, cake, anything they can think of.

Down with this sort of thing.

leninbenjamin

charlie mchugh wrote: »

No other league will be hit as hard as the EPL will be.

i'm not sure about this, i think the stats we are seeing are very distorted. a huge amount of players have dual nationality, especially on the continent. under the proposed rules, it seems they are going to have to pick one. a huge amount are going to pick club over country. I actually think international football is going to be hit hardest. smaller countries are really going to lose out.

SantryRed

Would absolutely love if this ruling came in, I know it's not but still, we can Dream.:D

Dues Bellator

estebancambias wrote: »

I hate the way an Irish poster cares that much about English football.

i care so much about english football as im a follower of the league since i was 5 .

Dues Bellator

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Is almanu trying to ruin the English language?

seriously. that's hard to make sense of.

everybody else could understand it, i guess you just felt like having a pop.

zing

Is 'homegrown' to apply to the country a given league/federation is based in or to the country a given team is based in ? And how would this then affect the likes of Derry City and Monaco ?

therecklessone

iregk wrote: »

The EU law doesn't actually cover this and can't stop it. FIFA have been very clever here. If this was a limit on foreign players then yes EU employment laws kick in and we have a court case. However this is not a limit on foreign players its a promotion of homegrown.

It will be challenged by the first player left sitting on the bench because he's a non-national and he will win. It is a restraint of a players right to work within the EU, plain and simple. Limit the number of foreign players on the pitch and you will limit the amount in a club's squad.

Charlie

therecklessone wrote: »

It will be challenged by the first player left sitting on the bench because he's a non-national and he will win. It is a restraint of a players right to work within the EU, plain and simple. Limit the number of foreign players on the pitch and you will limit the amount in a club's squad.

+1

The ECJ are no ones fools, they don't see things in black and white. They will look at the substantive effects of a law, not how it is cleverly worded. This has been demonstrated in countless decisions.

Gegerty

iregk wrote: »

The EU law doesn't actually cover this and can't stop it. FIFA have been very clever here. If this was a limit on foreign players then yes EU employment laws kick in and we have a court case. However this is not a limit on foreign players its a promotion of homegrown.

Now I know its effectively the same thing however by using the homegrown unberella the EU's hands are pretty tied on this one as its not discrimination is promotion of local resources.

I think this is a great rule as it will force big clubs to work the academy and again use the scouting network rather than thrown money at big players. The only problem I have with it is that the Emile Heskeys of the world will now become 10mill more expensive purely for being home grown.

It's a clear case of discrimination based on nationality. "Sorry you cannot play because you are not English". It will not survive a challenge, the EU have already examined it and warned FIFA about it. We will more than likely see a compromise, i.e you must have come through an English youth scheme.

DSB

almanu wrote: »

i care so much about english football as im a follower of the league since i was 5 .

You're still Irish.

Dues Bellator

DSB wrote: »

You're still Irish.

whats your point, i am irish it is 2008 am i not allowed in this day and age to support which ever team i want with out being called a west brit. i dont care what your views are on irish football ,im not saying i dont support it ,its just whats the point in supporting a team that sells its best players to england, thats why league of ireland is not such an atractive option.im sorry im just not in to it.

bohsman

On the whole law front, how come transfer windows and only 2 places of employment a year are ok?

DSB

almanu wrote: »

whats your point, i am irish it is 2008 am i not allowed in this day and age to support which ever team i want with out being called a west brit. i dont care what your views are on irish football ,im not saying i dont support it ,its just whats the point in supporting a team that sells its best players to england, thats why league of ireland is not such an atractive option.im sorry im just not in to it.

Haha I didn't mention Irish clubs once. Nor was I implying anything to do with that. But since you've come out and said that the top 4 clubs won't be affected much(well no more than the other big clubs in Europe), and judging from your screenname you're part of the Man Unirah bandwagon, why does the decline of the English league actually bother you?

DSB

almanu wrote: »

it is 2008 am i not allowed in this day and age to support which ever team i want with out being called a west brit.=

This part also gave me a particular chuckle. What does the year we're in have to do with anything?

Dues Bellator

DSB wrote: »

Haha I didn't mention Irish clubs once. Nor was I implying anything to do with that. But since you've come out and said that the top 4 clubs won't be affected much(well no more than the other big clubs in Europe), and judging from your screenname you're part of the Man Unirah bandwagon, why does the decline of the English league actually bother you?

why does the decline of the English league actually bother you?
because the gulf between the top four and the rest will get even bigger , i feel that will bring another spl like league in to play.boring boring boring i was at the opening game between celtic and kilmarnock i was trying not to fall asleep. went to celtic v rangers a few months later different game ,the point im making is celtic didnt even try against killmarnock because they felt they didnt have to .unfortunatly it bit them on the ass as it was a draw.so whats going to happen if this is the case with the epl liverpool put out there reserves to play blackburn because there playing man u next week, yeah great football.

SantryRed

almanu wrote: »

its just whats the point in supporting a team that sells its best players to england, thats why league of ireland is not such an atractive option.im sorry im just not in to it.

Well if this rule was to come in it wouldn't happen any more:D

Many more would be coming back home as well.

DSB

almanu wrote: »

why does the decline of the English league actually bother you?
because the gulf between the top four and the rest will get even bigger , i feel that will bring another spl like league in to play.boring boring boring i was at the opening game between celtic and kilmarnock i was trying not to fall asleep. went to celtic v rangers a few months later different game ,the point im making is celtic didnt even try against killmarnock because they felt they didnt have to .unfortunatly it bit them on the ass as it was a draw.so whats going to happen if this is the case with the epl liverpool put out there reserves to play blackburn because there playing man u next week, yeah great football.

I can't see how this is actually the case. This will cause the price of English players to increase. So if the likes of Middlesbrough end up having to sell Downing to Man United because they need a new English midfielder to meet the foreigner quotas, they'll sell him at a higher price, because there is a greater need for better quality English players. Simple supply and demand economics.

DSB

almanu wrote: »

its just whats the point in supporting a team that sells its best players to england

Not being a gloryhunter, and supporting a club you actually have a connection with would be a reason by the way. Thats not me trying to convert you either, I couldn't care less what you do. Just pointing out the condescending nature of your post. The smaller Premiership clubs have to sell their best players to the top Premiership clubs too. Should people not support them either and just support the top 4?

I think somthing should be done as football is getting out of hand at the moment. Player's seems to have too much control now. I think every player needs to spend at least 3 years at a team. Also there should be a wage cap.

English players are already overhyped and over priced . This will only add to the problem .

DSB

Deleted User wrote: »

I think every player needs to spend at least 3 years at a team. Also there should be a wage cap.

Could you imagine the outrage of telling an individual they have to spend 3 years in their job, and telling them the max they're legally allowed earn? Proposterous.

Edit - I realise a contract can tell someone they have to spend 3 years in a job, but thats a voluntary thing.

Dues Bellator

DSB wrote: »

Not being a gloryhunter, and supporting a club you actually have a connection with would be a reason by the way. Thats not me trying to convert you either, I couldn't care less what you do. Just pointing out the condescending nature of your post. The smaller Premiership clubs have to sell their best players to the top Premiership clubs too. Should people not support them either and just support the top 4?

i support man u because my dad lived in manchester from the age of 12 to 20 he was a united fan as am i. im really sorry you tought i was being condesending thats not the way i was trying to be , i was just stating what i feel would happen im not stating fact here. i seen my first united game at old trafford when i was 9 and it was an experiance that will stay with me for the rest of my life, as for being a glory hunter we finished 7th that year.i can understand were your coming from you see im a united fan and you think im a supporter from the 90s .it gets my goat when you have a conversation with a man unirah fan that cant remember players like bailey , jordan ,strachen and wilkins you mention these players and they look at you as if you got two heads.when these were just a few that turned the club around not to mention robson. so im not a bandwagon fan and the point i was trying to make is if this rule is brought in ,the top four will snap up all the top english players this is just how it is.then the league will be even more harder to compete in for the clubs that struggle to come up with transfer fees dus making the epl even more one sided or four sided if you know what i mean.lol

DSB

almanu wrote: »

i support man u because my dad lived in manchester from the age of 12 to 20 he was a united fan as am i. im really sorry you tought i was being condesending thats not the way i was trying to be , i was just stating what i feel would happen im not stating fact here. i seen my first united game at old trafford when i was 9 and it was an experiance that will stay with me for the rest of my life, as for being a glory hunter we finished 7th that year.i can understand were your coming from you see im a united fan and you think im a supporter from the 90s .it gets my goat when you have a conversation with a man unirah fan that cant remember players like bailey , jordan ,strachen and wilkins you mention these players and they look at you as if you got two heads.when these were just a few that turned the club around not to mention robson. so im not a bandwagon fan and the point i was trying to make is if this rule is brought in ,the top four will snap up all the top english players this is just how it is.then the league will be even more harder to compete in for the clubs that struggle to come up with transfer fees dus making the epl even more one sided or four sided if you know what i mean.lol

But buying all the top English players would lead to a big income source for the clubs with the top youth systems, and money is of course what makes the Premiership tick, so unless English sides kept performing exceptionally in the Champions League with their fully English side, wouldn't that possibly see a redistribution of the wealth? Which may of course lead to a more open league.

gosplan

Not trying to ruin English football, just trying to create a level playing field.

This way no single cash rich league could simply buy the worlds best players and dominate international tournaments.

The only question I have is what about uncapped players who can gain residency?

DSB

gosplan wrote: »

Not trying to ruin English football, just trying to create a level playing field.

This way no single cash rich league could simply buy the worlds best players and dominate international tournaments.

The only question I have is what about uncapped players who can gain residency?

Would that not involve 5 years of possibly sitting on the bench?

gosplan

almanu wrote: »

i support man u because my dad lived in manchester from the age of 12 to 20 he was a united fan as am i. im really sorry you tought i was being condesending thats not the way i was trying to be , i was just stating what i feel would happen im not stating fact here. i seen my first united game at old trafford when i was 9 and it was an experiance that will stay with me for the rest of my life, as for being a glory hunter we finished 7th that year.i can understand were your coming from you see im a united fan and you think im a supporter from the 90s .it gets my goat when you have a conversation with a man unirah fan that cant remember players like bailey , jordan ,strachen and wilkins you mention these players and they look at you as if you got two heads.when these were just a few that turned the club around not to mention robson. so im not a bandwagon fan and the point i was trying to make is if this rule is brought in ,the top four will snap up all the top english players this is just how it is.then the league will be even more harder to compete in for the clubs that struggle to come up with transfer fees dus making the epl even more one sided or four sided if you know what i mean.lol

My god that's hard to read!!

Brown, Ferdinand, Rooney, Scholes, Carrick, Hargreaves + 5? Wasn't that the CL final team?

What's the problem?

gosplan

DSB wrote: »

Would that not involve 5 years of possibly sitting on the bench?

No, just being counted as a foreign player for so long and then joining the others.

DSB

gosplan wrote: »

No, just being counted as a foreign player for so long and then joining the others.

That takes 5 years though right?

Dues Bellator

gosplan wrote: »

My god that's hard to read!!

Brown, Ferdinand, Rooney, Scholes, Carrick, Hargreaves + 5? Wasn't that the CL final team?

What's the problem?

as i said in my earlier post the top 4 clubs wont be affected.

Pepe LeFrits

DSB wrote: »

But buying all the top English players would lead to a big income source for the clubs with the top youth systems, and money is of course what makes the Premiership tick, so unless English sides kept performing exceptionally in the Champions League with their fully English side, wouldn't that possibly see a redistribution of the wealth? Which may of course lead to a more open league.

Increased transfer fees for English players would be offset by increased 'big club' domination caused by the greater gulf in class of the English players at the bigger sides.

Right now clubs have the entire global market to choose from, so if someone like Man United poaches one of say, Fulham's best players, they can find a replacement from another country who may not be quite as good, but is still close enough. The 6+5 would massively shrink the market and the difference in the quality of players would increase. Man United, Chelsea etc would still have the Rooney and Terrys of this world but Blackburn, Middlesbrough etc would have the Stubbs and Todds (Derby) while the teams at the lower end of the league would have Championship standard players.

DSB

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Increased transfer fees for English players would be offset by increased 'big club' domination caused by the greater gulf in class of the English players at the bigger sides.

Debatable. Its just gonna result in English clubs bringing through more youngsters and giving them a chance. The sides are allowed have 5 foreigners still so its hardly like they're gonna have to completely weaken their side. I'd wager that most Premiership clubs would have no problem fielding a side close enough to their first choice side with 6 English players in it.

leninbenjamin

DSB wrote: »

Debatable. Its just gonna result in English clubs bringing through more youngsters and giving them a chance.

that's optimistic. it's still far easier to bring an English player through than scout a foreigner, pay to relocate his family, teach him a new language etc. English clubs have only expanded their scouting circles because quite simply that talent isn't there. plenty of youngsters are given chances but fail to take them because they aren't good enough. this wont be solved by a rule change. England's problems are at the grassroots level, which will not be solved by a simple rule change for the big leagues.

Pepe LeFrits

DSB wrote: »

Debatable. Its just gonna result in English clubs bringing through more youngsters and giving them a chance. The sides are allowed have 5 foreigners still so its hardly like they're gonna have to completely weaken their side. I'd wager that most Premiership clubs would have no problem fielding a side close enough to their first choice side with 6 English players in it.

There are currently about 170 English players in the league, this rule would increase that figure to 300 or more.

That's 130+ players who ordinarily would be playing in the championship. They might get slightly better by playing in the top league, but then everyone else will get worse from having a weaker opponent.

Anyway, the smaller teams will feel it the most, because they'll be the ones getting the dregs. If we thought Derby County were bad this season... well, this would set new standards for awfulness.

DSB

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

There are currently about 170 English players in the league, this rule would increase that figure to 300 or more.

That's 130+ players who ordinarily would be playing in the championship. They might get slightly better by playing in the top league, but then everyone else will get worse from having a weaker opponent.

Anyway, the smaller teams will feel it the most, because they'll be the ones getting the dregs. If we thought Derby County were bad this season... well, this would set new standards for awfulness.

To be fair 300 players would fill the first team quotas, for 50 clubs. I suspect that the 170 players quoted are only those who play regularly enough for their sides also, which would balance out the obvious need for English substitutes too.

mormank

charlie mchugh wrote: »

I would have to disagree with you there. I think the paranoia is justified. Whilst there are times the English blow such issues OTT (they seem to have a fear of their soveringty being yanked form them), in this instance, they are right to be worried.

No other league will be hit as hard as the EPL will be. I am not saying that they are not responsible themselves fro this predicament, but they are right to be bricking it. The vast majority of teams in Italy and Spain would coast through this ruling, as would German, French and Portuguese teams.

However, after spending a fair bit of time studying EU law as part of my degree and Masters, I cannot see Blatter getting his way. The ECJ will not compromise in any manner when it comes to the application of Art. 39.

how would most teams in other countries coast through this??? real madrid only have 3 spanish players in their startin 11. barca have 4. Man utd have 5 and can easily stretch that figure to 6. i think italy would be the least effected.

bohsman

Someone posted a report on the amount of foreign players in the big leagues recently, think England had an average of just under 5 English players to starting line up last season, in Italy the highest figure it was just over 7/11 were Italian.

DSB

bohsman wrote: »

Someone posted a report on the amount of foreign players in the big leagues recently, think England had an average of just under 5 English players to starting line up last season

Yeah that won't make it too bad of a jump to 6 I don't think.

bohsman

Especially with Arsenal driving the average down.

iregk

leninbenjamin wrote:

English clubs have only expanded their scouting circles because quite simply that talent isn't there. plenty of youngsters are given chances but fail to take them because they aren't good enough.

Very true. You only have to look at the two football icon programs. Nationwide invitation to any youngster to win a contract with Chelsea. The first winner Sam Hurrel was released last summer and is now without a club. The current winner Carl Magnay is still with the club and hopefully will make it but 1 out of an entire nationwide search is pretty poor going.

DSB

iregk wrote: »

Very true. You only have to look at the two football icon programs. Nationwide invitation to any youngster to win a contract with Chelsea. The first winner Sam Hurrel was released last summer and is now without a club. The current winner Carl Magnay is still with the club and hopefully will make it but 1 out of an entire nationwide search is pretty poor going.

To be fair, the best youngsters would have already had clubs. who wouldn't have appreciated their players taking part.