Unauthorised Overdraft

Samba

Hi There,

I need a little advice on an issue I have with my bank (PTSB).

I play poker for a living and my income would not be considered stable, I receieved a laser card approx. 6 months ago with them.

When i made my application I clearly stated on the applicatio form that i wished to have a €0 overdraft facility.

Once i receieved and activated the card again I asked the question to the representative over the phone, will this card have an overdraft facility, to which i was replied no....perfect i thought.

I have a savings account with the same bank and two other accounts with seperate banks in Ireland. I generally transfer funds from my savings to current account and vice versa.


Im currently living in France for the year and all my financial activity is still carried out in Ireland (i wouldn't dare put a penny into a French bank).

Now last month was not a good month for poker, i had considerable losses after a particularly bad week to the point that my transactions were being declined i logged on to online banking to transfer funds to top up my current account, much to my horror and without my own knowledge i saw that my current account was in the red in excess of €1,500 and that i had been hit for numerous referall fees etc.


At this point naturally I was quite peeved as I had never requested or authorised any overdraft facility on my account.

So i contacted online banking via phone and I was provided with the name of a person who i could contact to discuss this further, I was never able to contact them, my emails were ignored.

Finally i received a call "on behalf" of that person and I questioned as to why my account had an overdraft facility.

I was informed they they took the liberty of providing one for me based on the amount of money available in all my accounts.

Now i wouldn't mind so much, but before applying for my laser card I was refused on a credit card application as I had no full time job, understandably.

What is the legality of my bank proiding me with an overdraft facility without my consent or my knowledge?

My bank statements still clearly show Overdraft Facility €0

Ideally i would like to pursure refunds on the referall fees on my account (It's a small sum and the money is not important just the principle of their underhanded business practices I wish to address)

Thankfully im in a position to clear the account but what if I was not!

Thanks,

Samba

stepbar

This behaviour annoys me. As a banker it's something I get most days. It's your responcibility to know what you have in your bank account before you make a purchase and your responcibility to know what laser transactions you have out there before you make a withdrawal from an ATM machine. The bank has not provided you with an overdraft. You've forced credit simple as. If there is anything underhand it's your use of the laser card.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Another banker here. Laser debits take a few days to come through, ie when the merchant debits your account, so your bank doesn't know you've spent the funds & therefore allows you to use the funds they think you have left. The bank must pay the merchant as they have an agreement to allow all payments that have been authorised, so all transactions will be automatically debited.

If you have a good bit of cash in savings make an angry complaint & they might refund the charges.

To be honest you'd have to have a lot for me not to send you a letter threatening to cancel your laser facility if I saw you going over by E1500 with gambling transactions.

Samba

stepbar wrote: »

This behaviour annoys me. As a banker it's something I get most days. It's your responcibility to know what you have in your bank account before you make a purchase and your responcibility to know what laser transactions you have out there before you make a withdrawal from an ATM machine. The bank has not provided you with an overdraft. You've forced credit simple as. If there is anything underhand it's your use of the laser card.

Thanks for your helpful post

I'm afraid that's not the case at all, the bank have confirmed an overdraft facility on my account of 1,500 Eur of which i had no knowledge of or gave any consent.

That's very much underhanded.

Another banker here. Laser debits take a few days to come through, ie when the merchant debits your account, so your bank doesn't know you've spent the funds & therefore allows you to use the funds they think you have left. The bank must pay the merchant as they have an agreement to allow all payments that have been authorised, so all transactions will be automatically debited.

If you have a good bit of cash in savings make an angry complaint & they might refund the charges.

To be honest you'd have to have a lot for me not to send you a letter threatening to cancel your laser facility if I saw you going over by E1500 with gambling transactions.

I'm aware of this and i checked my records the account had no outstanding transactions and a relatively small balance at the time.

I apreciate your reponses and input but unfortunately you have not managed to answer my question.

What is the legality of a bank providing me with an overdraft which i never signed for?

Banks also have responsbilities not just customers, I do see your points it was irresponsible on my behalf however this is debt i was able to clear instantly.

This was not a case of delayed transactions not appearing on my account, this was a clear cut overdraft facility put in place without my consent.

There is a very good reason why i wish for there to be no overdraft facility on my account, i have no desire to play with the banks funds.

Gordon

Is it a planned or unplanned overdraft of 1500?

I don't understand why people don't have overdrafts when in your position, it's not like you pay anything when you don't use it. I have an overdraft just in case I mismanage my money and go over what I have, then I won't be hit with massive bank charges. If I was overdrawn (without a planned overdraft) by 1500 then my charges would be £20 per day. It looks like the bank was doing you a favour by providing you with it.

However, if you don't want the overdraft you should complain and get them to remove it. Then you will need to pay daily charges though won't you?

Or maybe I misunderstood - did they provide you with an overdraft simply because of your use of the account or did they provide you with an overdraft because you were overdrawn by 1500?

unclebill98

The bank simple gave you the overdraft rather than refusing your transactions.

I would seek refunds for the charges are pay up the o/d and get it cancelled.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Samba wrote: »

Thanks for your helpful post

I'm afraid that's not the case at all, the bank have confirmed an overdraft facility on my account of 1,500 Eur of which i had no knowledge of or gave any consent.

That's very much underhanded.



I'm aware of this and i checked my records the account had no outstanding transactions and a relatively small balance at the time.

I apreciate your reponses and input but unfortunately you have not managed to answer my question.

What is the legality of a bank providing me with an overdraft which i never signed for?

Banks also have responsbilities not just customers, I do see your points it was irresponsible on my behalf however this is debt i was able to clear instantly.

This was not a case of delayed transactions not appearing on my account, this was a clear cut overdraft facility put in place without my consent.

There is a very good reason why i wish for there to be no overdraft facility on my account, i have no desire to play with the banks funds.

If it was an official overdraft then why were you getting referral fees? thatś a complete contradiction & I think you should double check you still have the overdraft.

Anyway I dont have a complete response to the legality but I will tell you this.

I used to work in personal banking & if a customer went over their limit but still had a good turnover I would occasionally ring them up & offer an increased facility which I could mark up on the spot.

However, they had to have had some level of overdraft already in place for me to do this. If they had a non-advanced/no overdraft account Id have to refer them to their branch or our online banking customer service.

This suggests to me they wouldnt be allowed to give you an ongoing overdraft unless they had a credit agreement with you.

Now Im not a QFA or work for PTSB so Id suggest you get confirmation elsewhere. Best contact the financial regulator.

From what youve said about referral fees it doesnt seem like its a permanent overdraft facility to me.

Apologies for the punctuation, on a Spanish keyboard

unclebill98

I would also pull up the bank for the lack of getting back to you and for them not following the correct complaints procedure. You need to have gone through the banks complaints procedure before contacting the regulator.