Are we really getting all the new VRT savings???

Robertr

Was thinking about this yesterday. How can we know if we are getting all the savings on the new VRT system.

Obviuosly we can check the price between the "new" new price and the "old" new price and see if that equals the drop in the VRT %, but considering that the VRT is suppose to be based on the value of the car (OMSP) and these are also going to be impacted by the VRT drop then we should see the price dropping by more then the VRT % drop???

I comes back to that age old question, how do they determine what the VRT is one a new car since the OMSP price includes VRT??? So you are paying VRT on the value including VRT so how to they determine what the VRT is in the first instance? Its not mathmatically possible. You have to just grab a figure out of the air and then apply the VRT rate to it.


So they are taxing you on the tax. :eek::eek:

Its like VAT being added to the price of something based on the price already including the VAT.

Has to be illegal:mad::mad::mad:

peasant

Robertr wrote: »

Has to be illegal:mad::mad::mad:

So sue them

other than that ...not another VRT thread, we really have done this to death in several threads over the last few weeks

closed

EDIT: on second thought ...thread re-opened as my intended smartass remark "use the search function" was promptly fouled as the search won't recognise "VRT" ...too short apparently

colm_mcm

the distuibutors can charge whatever they see fit, they have to be able to sell a range of engines that they have in stock or on the way.

ramanujan

peasant wrote: »

EDIT: on second thought ...thread re-opened as my intended smartass remark "use the search function" was promptly fouled as the search won't recognise "VRT" ...too short apparently

HaHa, nice to see some thought going into your decisions must say.
New VRT laws will afect the companys costs, which will affect the minimum acceptable price, so your best bet is just to bargain dell boy trotter stylee and find out what that minimum is.

drunkmonkey

Robertr wrote: »

So they are taxing you on the tax. :eek::eek:

Has to be illegal:mad::mad::mad:

Hello.....it is illegal, we know it is, the government know it is and the eu know it is....

Nobody has taken the governemt the whole way to brussels on it yet....Once they do the tax will change as we are being ripped off by the people we intrusted with our care.....

Esel

Vote NO to VRT!

port

I know i'm not getting all the savings because I have a trade in but I'm collecting a 520d 1st July for €6000.00 less than I would have paid in January.This is fact.New car has been stored in dealers since Jan.Thank you Mr Gormley,I wasnt happy waiting but €6k is not to be sneezed at.Of course if the VRT alterations had been introduced in Jan the saving would have been c.€8k

Robertr

peasant - Thanks for leaving open. As the original author of the VRT Definitive Guide thread I know a fair bit about it already but have never seen any discussions on how they determine the value of a new car so that they can apply the VRT rate. It’s a circular reference.

colm_mcm – no sure what you are talking about there.

Drunkmonkey – I’m not talking about VRT as a whole being illegal. That’s a whole other subject. Just the way its being applied. I think its illegal to apply a tax rate to a value that already includes the tax.

colm_mcm

Robertr wrote: »

colm_mcm – no sure what you are talking about there.

Sorry Robert, what I mean is that the likes of Kia Ireland or whoever, may not pass on the VRT savings in full, and if they do - there's very little we can do about it, apart from not buy their car. It's good to see most manufacturers being fair about it. Some manufacturers may maintain a price gap between petrol and diesel models by raising diesel car prices or lowering petrol car prices to make the petrol models saleable.

peasant

I've always wondered about the mechanics myself.

Motorhomes are another prime example for weird and wonderful prices.
If they are over three tonnes they only attract 50 Euro VRT, lighter than three tons it's 13.5%.

So you'd think that a small motorhome should be somwhere around 13.5% dearer than the equivalent on the continent (as the bigger ones cost almost the same as on the continent)...yet most of them end up doubling in price. Somebody, somewhere seems to pull prices just out of thin air.

And ...as you say ...how do you determine the OMSP when it is already supposed to contain VRT before you put the actual VRT on it ??

colm_mcm

I would imagine that large motorhomes are less popular in Ireland due to their size?

E92

these threads have been done to the ends of the earth, almost as predictable as rainfall at this stage really....

To answer the question about us getting the VRT savings, practically everyone has done so thus far, and some are going well beyond what we could have even dreamed of hoping for too.

peasant

colm_mcm wrote: »

I would imagine that large motorhomes are less popular in Ireland due to their size?

Be that as it may ...but if a small motorhome costs 37 k in Germany (sans VRT), how come the same model can cost 57 k here?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055058337&highlight=overpriced (links in that thread are dead now)

So ...beacuse small is popular someone decided to make the OSMP significantly higher ?

I don't want to make this into a motorhomes thread (we have our own little cosy forum) ...but they are a very good example for the fishiness that goes on in the background when determining prices (OMSP) is concerned.

There's little to compare them to and limited competition, so dealers can just conjour up prices out of thin air and the Revenue is happy because they get their share in (increased) VRT as well.


and to complete the swing back to topic:

If that overpriced example was now reduced from 57 k to 55 K for (alleged) VRT savings, it would still be 10 k more expensive than its continental counterpart + VRT.

The figures relating to cars obviously aren't as high, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was a few hundred euro per car dissapearing into the pockets of dealers and the revenue ...and nobody can really check it because of the way VRT is "calculated" in the first place.

JHMEG

peasant wrote: »

EDIT: on second thought ...thread re-opened as my intended smartass remark "use the search function" was promptly fouled as the search won't recognise "VRT" ...too short apparently

It's only mods that can't search for TLAs.

There are 287 threads with the "vrt" in them.

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

these threads have been done to the ends of the earth,

One thing that is not in any sticky is information about the VRT rebates on hybrids.

peasant

JHMEG wrote: »

It's only mods that can't search for TLAs.

There are 287 threads with the "vrt" in them.

Thanks for rubbing it in

JHMEG

peasant wrote: »

Thanks for rubbing it in

You really should get it seen to. Unkel was complaining in the past that he couldn't search for BMW.

E92

peasant wrote: »

Be that as it may ...but if a small motorhome costs 37 k in Germany (sans VRT), how come the same model can cost 57 k here?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055058337&highlight=overpriced (links in that thread are dead now)

So ...because small is popular someone decided to make the OSMP significantly higher ?

I don't want to make this into a motorhomes thread (we have our own little cosy forum) ...but they are a very good example for the fishiness that goes on in the background when determining prices (OMSP) is concerned.

There's little to compare them to and limited competition, so dealers can just conjure up prices out of thin air and the Revenue is happy because they get their share in (increased) VRT as well.


and to complete the swing back to topic:

If that overpriced example was now reduced from 57 k to 55 K for (alleged) VRT savings, it would still be 10 k more expensive than its continental counterpart + VRT.

The figures relating to cars obviously aren't as high, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was a few hundred euro per car disappearing into the pockets of dealers and the revenue ...and nobody can really check it because of the way VRT is "calculated" in the first place.

The difference there is that one can easily go to Germany and save the 20k, for cars we're constrained by VRT and thus we can't avail of lower prices elsewhere.

There is almost no evidence to show that we are being ripped off by the manufacturers for cars, if anything as recent developments show we may often be paying less for the same car than anyone else in Europe BEFORE VRT is applied.

If VRT was illegal then the EU would have gotten rid of it 15 years ago when Bertie Ahern introduced it as Finance Minister wouldn't they?

OMSP is around 92% of the RRP usually, so it's 92% * RRP * VRT at x% = Amount of VRT you are paying on a car.

colm_mcm

re: the motorhomes, I presume one would be able to negotiate a sizeable wedge off the Irish dealers asking prices? I don't think the culture for discounts is the same in all European countries