What is wrong with some people..19 hour rape..

Rb

That's f*cked up, wonder how long (if ever) it'll take for her to be rehabilitated.

Thank Christ it wasn't in Ireland though or the pr1ck would be out in 8-12 years maximum.

Hopefully he doesn't get the death penalty though, that would be far too easy, sticking him in a padded room with nothing to harm himself with for the rest of his days would be far better. Perhaps include a tap that drips continually, just to drive him completely off the rails.

Poor girl though, what a horrible thing to happen.

Lockstep

tech77 wrote: »

These actions are irreconcilable with any notion of humanity so why fcuking treat him like a human.

As it seperates us from them.

Yes treat him like a human, albeit one hell of a sick f*ck.

AckwelFoley

Yes. Humanity weeps again...

19 Hours...

i sentance that man to 19 hours of cell time with bubba. Lock door and ignore screams.

MagicMarker

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

First of all, this person's trial appears to have just started. The prosecution have made their opening speech, but no evidence has been heard. His defence may well be that it was someone else entirely or that they got the wrong guy; without hearing the evidence you can't possibly know what he is or is not guilty of. The rush to condemn him based on a newspaper report of a lawyer's speech is worrying.

Erm...

The victim and several witnesses in the six-story apartment building where the woman lived picked out Mr. Williams from lineups, Ms. Prunty said. She said that DNA evidence also linked him to the crime.

So, yeah...

I feel sorry for this poor girl, because no punishment is punishment enough for this guy. He'll either be executed and given the easy way out. Or he'll be in prision with all the luxuries associated with same.

tech77

kickoutthejams wrote: »

As it seperates us from them.

Yes treat him like a human, albeit one hell of a sick f*ck.

Yeah but we study/kill animals and that's reconcilable with our humanity isn't it? (vegetarianism/animal rights protesters aside).

And this guy is no more than an animal.
I'd have serious problems recognising him as a human tbh.

So would it be inconsistent with our humanity to treat him like an animal?

Lockstep

tech77 wrote: »

Yeah but we study/kill animals and that's reconcilable with our humanity isn't it? (vegetarianism/animal rights protesters aside).

I'm against animal testing. You're bringing in a whole other argument.

tech77 wrote: »

And this guy is no more than an animal.
I'd have serious problems recognising him as a human tbh.

I find it odd that people think there are predicates to being human. he did a terrible terrible thing and if it was him, he needs to be segregated from people for the rest of his life if only for their protection.

But then again, I think there is something wonderfully self righteous that differs me from him: I will still see him as a human. Regardless of how he treated that poor woman.

tech77 wrote: »

So would it be inconsistent with our humanity to treat him like an animal?

Why would it be?

Dudess

MagicMarker wrote: »

Or he'll be in prision with all the luxuries associated with same.

A term at a maximum security jail along the lines of Oz... I could think of a number of terms to describe what accompanies such a sentence - however, "luxuries" is definitely not one of them.

tech77 wrote: »

Yeah but we study/kill animals and that's reconcilable with our humanity isn't it? (vegetarianism/animal rights protesters aside).

And this guy is no more than an animal.
I'd have serious problems recognising him as a human tbh.

So would it be inconsistent with our humanity to treat him like an animal?

Sadly, only a human is capable of what he did.

Lockstep

MagicMarker wrote: »

Or he'll be in prision with all the luxuries associated with same.

In America?

For such a heinous crime?

American prisons are awful, awful places. Especially for those convicted of sex crimes.

Earthhorse

tech77 wrote: »

I'd have serious problems recognising him as a human tbh.

So would it be inconsistent with our humanity to treat him like an animal?

It would be inconsistent with my humanity because he isn't actually an animal. Just like he isn't a football or a chair.

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth; it just doesn't work in the long run. Our justice system developed the way it has for good reason.

tech77

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I'm against animal testing. You're bringing in a whole other argument.


I find it odd that people think there are predicates to being human. he did a terrible terrible thing and if it was him, he needs to be segregated from people for the rest of his life if only for their protection.

But then again, I think there is something wonderfully self righteous that differs me from him: I will still see him as a human. Regardless of how he treated that poor woman.


Why would it be?

Fair enough.
It's just difficult (for me at least) to accept this as part of humanity that's all.

Edit: Just about the study thing:
I can't help but feel that a better understanding of the psychology of this $hit is being wasted by not subjecting him to some kinda study.

MagicMarker

kickoutthejams wrote: »

In America?

For such a heinous crime?

American prisons are awful, awful places. Especially for those convicted of sex crimes.

Meh, Still not punishment enough.

Lockstep

Understandable Tech77.

Make no mistake, this guy is a sick fecker of the highest order.

Lockstep

MagicMarker wrote: »

Meh, Still not punishment enough.

Can a punishment ever be enough to the victim?

tech77 wrote: »

Edit: Just about the study thing:
I can't help but feel that a better understanding of the psychology of this $hit is being wasted by not subjecting him to some kinda study.

A good idea. I assumed people meant Mengele style testing.

Trying to evaluate him and understand his psychology is a capital idea.

Kazobel

Jasus, that's vile in the worst form I can imagine, he deserves death for that at the very least :(:(

tech77

Earthhorse wrote: »

It would be inconsistent with my humanity because he isn't actually an animal. Just like he isn't a football or a chair.

It's a shame that humanity has to be defined in strict biological terms more than say in terms of things like psychology/behaviour etc.

In cases so heinous, if further understanding of this variant of "human" psychology could be aggressively gleaned and and eventually treated, we'd all be better off.

It's not so much about about the "eye for an eye" thing either tbh.
Although punishment is important.

Dave!

Horrible... send the c*nt to Thailand to serve his prison sentence...

Earthhorse

tech77 wrote: »

It's a shame that humanity has to be defined in strict biological terms more than say in terms of things like psychology/behaviour etc.

And it's a shame people feel the need to de-humanise someone so they can exact a satisfying punishment. That's basically how they teach soldiers and torturers to view the enemy - as animals. You really want to incorporate that into our justice system?

tech77 wrote: »

In cases so heinous, if further understanding of this variant of "human" psychology could be aggressively gleaned and and eventually treated, we'd all be better off.

Oh, I absolutely agree with studying the psychology and psychiatry of such people. Like kotj says it sounded like you were talking about injecting him with serum or something. We actually know a fair amount about this stuff already and it's unlikely we'll learn much more from studying one person but we should still do it.

johnnyskeleton

MagicMarker wrote: »

Erm...


So, yeah...

Just because she said there will be evidence, that does not mean there is evidence. Do you not understand the difference?

johnnyskeleton

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Can a punishment ever be enough to the victim?

Who knows what the victim wants, and I doubt very much that people who ask such questions really care about the victims. They want vengeance against a person they don't know because he symbolises their fear of crime. They get their message across by seeking to have him tortured in the victims name, because asking for him to be tortured for their own sake sounds a bit perverted.

And in all this, the actual victim is just a political football, to be kicked about in an effort to score a few goals.

I believe that the healthiest way for victims of violent/sexual crime to come to terms is to do so on their own terms. The mordern, evening herald type of baying for heavy sentences is a two fold curse for victims:

1) it gives them the false belief that the criminal justice system can restore them to the position they were in before the offence, but it can never do this, and more importantly

2) it makes victims feel inadequate where the offender is given a lower sentence than the media would expect - by conditioning victims to feel that they want a heavy sentence, we are setting them up for a fall when the sentence falls short of divine retribution (which it invariably does).

1huge1

The Scientist wrote: »

Death is too easy a punishment for him.

Hung, drawn & quartered.

I agree, he doesnt deserve the death penalty, he deserves so much worse.

Life in prison, solitary confinment for the rest of his life.

That was a tough read.

ejmaztec

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I understood that only one previous conviction was mentioned, but even still, what do you think should have been done? It's easy in retrospect to say he should have been kept in prison, but then again those girls shouldn't have taken the Navan bus that day, so hindsight is of little use.

If you read the article, you will see that he's been in the system for years, both inside and outside prison, and not for minor offences (although there could have been these in addition). The experts had enough access to him to find out what makes him tick. They could have nipped whatever problems he had in the bud. The system failed.

In the Navan case, that was another failure of a system.

In neither of these cases is hindsight of any relevance.

xOxSinéadxOx

uggh, oh my god the eye thing, i feel sick!

johnnyskeleton

ejmaztec wrote: »

If you read the article, you will see that he's been in the system for years, both inside and outside prison, and not for minor offences (although there could have been these in addition). The experts had enough access to him to find out what makes him tick. They could have nipped whatever problems he had in the bud. The system failed.

I didn't see that in the article, perhaps you will quote it. What I saw was:

Mr. Williams, who was homeless at the time of his arrest about a week later at the scene of a burglary in Queens, has a lengthy police record dating to his childhood, the authorities have said.

He was charged in a murder as a juvenile, though the outcome of that case is sealed, a law enforcement official said, and he spent eight years in prison for an attempted-murder conviction in 1996.

The only previous conviction mentioned is the attempted murder. Often times, a "length police record" can mean a few minor public order, road traffic, drug possession or petty theft offences and these are hardly predictors of future savage rapine.

In the Navan case, that was another failure of a system.

In neither of these cases is hindsight of any relevance.

That hindsight is not of any relevance is exactly my point. It's easy to look at this person and (provided he is proved guilty that is) say what should have been done in hindsight, but we can't assume that someone could have predicted that this would happen.

steo123

its easy to jump on the bandwagon and say kill the animal!!!

there are no winners here only victims!!!u can lock up the perpetrator for life but the suffering the female victim will go through will aslways be greater

Kazobel

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Can a punishment ever be enough to the victim?

Well yeah, an event like is going to traumatise her for life, if all he gets is a few years in a mental institute or 25 years in prison she'll always fear him coming back, imagine living with what he did and then added to that the fear that at some point he may have the opportunity to come back to finish the job. That's 25 years of always waiting for that day, he's in prison but his (like ever other) rape victim also becomes a prisoner. Death to them is the only way to free their victims IMO and fcuk his human rights, humans don't do what he did, hell I wouldn't even agree with PETA defending him because even animals wouldn't do that, he's not human, he's not animal he's a sub-species and there's no group for them so let the fcukers die, society is well rid IMO.

Latchy

And you will hear some people on this forum in legalities or some such thread say ' but prison doesnt reform or sovle anything ' and fight for the rights of pricks like this to appeal any sentence handed down .

Lockstep

Kazobel wrote: »

Well yeah, an event like is going to traumatise her for life, if all he gets is a few years in a mental institute or 25 years in prison she'll always fear him coming back, imagine living with what he did and then added to that the fear that at some point he may have the opportunity to come back to finish the job. That's 25 years of always waiting for that day, he's in prison but his (like ever other) rape victim also becomes a prisoner.

Point is, no matter what happens to the perp, chances are no punishment will ever be enough for a victim to feel validated. How often do you hear the victim/family say they are satisfied with the sentence? Usually it's complaints on how it's not long enough.

Cases are often not about keeping the perp sequesterd. Surely life imprisonment would do this. Usually I hear the victim demanding vengeance.

Kazobel wrote: »

Death to them is the only way to free their victims IMO

Free them? There is always a chance that the accused was innocent (especially given the notorious state of US courts) and what happens if it's discovered he is innocent? Exonerated in death?

Kazobel wrote: »

and fcuk his human rights, humans don't do what he did, hell I wouldn't even agree with PETA defending him because even animals wouldn't do that, he's not human, he's not animal he's a sub-species and there's no group for them so let the fcukers die, society is well rid IMO.

Animals are incapable of doing such an act. Only humans are. A persons actions do not make them a sub species.

Intothesea

Hung, drawn and quartered sounds about right
to me. I think a violent narcissist (a psychopath
would probably never risk leaving the victim alive)
can only be reliably dealt with with lock and key,
or maybe extensive lobotomy, if an experimental
approach is allowed

Carolmon, I think your points are interesting,
and I think you could have a standalone debate
on the nature of rape-jokes etc. and what they
might indicate.

Petty antagonism tends to rear its ugly head all
over this site and particularly in After Hours when
something unusual is offered (hello Earthorse!).

gogglebok

Dudess wrote: »

Solitary confinement with limited stimulation and human contact I think would be the way to go. Although why waste a jail cell on someone who's beyond rehabilitation?

Because justice systems are fallible and they might have imprisoned the wrong guy.

Latchy

How could you rehabilitate sombody like this ? would it be worth it ? at what cost to tax payer and society in general ?

If found guilty and not to be executed then people such as this guy should be locked up until the day of their natural death

That's about as human as it gets and the least the victims can expect .

Earthhorse

Intothesea wrote: »

Petty antagonism tends to rear its ugly head all over this site and particularly in After Hours when something unusual is offered (hello Earthorse!).

Ya wha?

You think I've been pettily antagonistic? Explain how.

Intothesea

I think people can read your first foray
into this thread (after reading Carolman's
of course) and make their own minds up.

Earthhorse

Okay, are you sure you haven't confused me with someone else? I can't believe I'm quoting myself here. This is my first foray into the thread.

Earthhorse wrote: »

I really hope this woman has family and friends that will gather round her and help her through this because I imagine she'll be feeling the effects for years. I really, really, really hope that. And that she gets a psychiatrist who knows his shit. And surgeons the same for any of her injuries.

I really, really, really hope that.

<Dudess's quote about the death penalty>

It's because we can't guarantee convictions are 100% accurate. Eventually an innocent person would be put to death. Can't fix that.

How is that pettily antagonistic?

Lockstep

Intothesea wrote: »

I think people can read your first foray
into this thread (after reading Carolman's
of course) and make their own minds up.

I read it. I'd view Earthorse as being a level headed person.

Intothesea

Sorry Earthorse, my point still stands,
rough-hew it how you will

I really really really hope that you don't
come out looking too bad from this,
really :pac:

/Exeunt

Earthhorse

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I read it. I'd view Earthorse as being a level headed person.

Thank you.

Intothesea wrote: »

Sorry Earthorse, my point still stands,
rough-hew it how you will

If I could understand your point I'd be happy enough. You're just being passive-aggressive. Accusing me of something and then punctuating it with a smiley. carolmon made an excellent post about people joking about things like rape, something I've never done to the best of my knowledge.

Intothesea wrote: »

I really really really hope that you don't
come out looking too bad from this, really :pac:

Do you think I'm being insincere or patronising, is that it? I'm not. I think there's too much focus on retribution in cases like this and not enough focus on rehabilitation for the victim.

Lockstep

Intothesea wrote: »

Sorry Earthorse, my point still stands,

Does it?

Intothesea wrote: »

I really really really hope that you don't
come out looking too bad from this,
really :pac:

/Exeunt

Not much danger of that to be honest.

davyjose

Intothesea wrote: »

I think people can read your first foray
into this thread (after reading Carolman's
of course) and make their own minds up.

That's bizarre.

You're the one who has spun this thread into something else. Some kind of vendetta against some seemingly earnest comments.

As for the original post, sick fùck, lock him away, but don't get too shocked. Mankind is littered with this sort of thing.

Latchy

Specially during war time, mankind shows it's most beastly side

ejmaztec

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I didn't see that in the article, perhaps you will quote it. What I saw was:

The only previous conviction mentioned is the attempted murder. Often times, a "length police record" can mean a few minor public order, road traffic, drug possession or petty theft offences and these are hardly predictors of future savage rapine.

That hindsight is not of any relevance is exactly my point. It's easy to look at this person and (provided he is proved guilty that is) say what should have been done in hindsight, but we can't assume that someone could have predicted that this would happen.

Charged with murder as a juvenile? Locked up for attempted murder? Long history in the system? One would be extremely naive to think that a person with this kind of background had no psychiatric evaluation.

You said that hindsight was of little use. I said that hindsight wasn't relevant.

johnnyskeleton

ejmaztec wrote: »

Charged with murder as a juvenile? Locked up for attempted murder? Long history in the system? One would be extremely naive to think that a person with this kind of background had no psychiatric evaluation.

Why is that? Do they perform automatic evaluations on all persons in prison? It's a pretty big assumption on your part that he has had one, and even if he did have someone look at him, it's unlikely that he had anything more than a cursory check-up to make sure that he isn't trying to kill himself.

ejmaztec wrote: »

You said that hindsight was of little use. I said that hindsight wasn't relevant.

Whatever way you spin it, there is no point in saying what should have happened, it's too late for that. Focus more on what should be done to prevent similar offences in the future.

Notorious

That is disgusting. And what I think is worse is that he'll probably end up getting a few years jail time, and not what he deserves. He needs his manhood removed for starters, maybe his hands too...

kaki

God almighty.

SV

Here's the scumbags mugshot

johnnyskeleton

Notorious wrote: »

He needs his manhood removed for starters, maybe his hands too...

How about a fair trial for starters? If he is convicted you can then set about discussing punishment.

Lockstep

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

how About A Fair Trial For Starters? If He Is Convicted You Can Then Set About Discussing Punishment.

+1

KnifeWRENCH

If he's found guilty, then he should be locked away for life in solitary confinement with NO luxuries and the most basic food/sanitary facilities.

Creeps who commit these kinds of offences should not receive the death penalty - it lets them off way too lightly. They should be locked up, but not rehabilitated. They should suffer complete isolation until their last breath.

That's the only decent enough punishment I can think of.

Latchy

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

How about a fair trial for starters? If he is convicted you can then set about discussing punishment.

The do gooders will make sure his human rights come first whatever .

Creature

That is pretty ****ing sick alright. If he's guilty I hope he gets a long prison term and lots of unlubricated prison sodomy.

davyjose

latchyco wrote: »

The do gooders will make sure his human rights come first whatever .

Them bloody do-gooders with their damn justice and equality. Really boils my blood.....