Pot,Kettle,Black Mr Alex Ferguson

Mr Alan

Thought I'd put this here as mancs mightnt like this in the Superthread. All the points raised are spot on though.

Fergie's old tap-dancing routine makes me cringe
Brian Reade 31/05/2008

In moments of triumph blind eyes are often turned to cringeful behaviour by the victor (think John Prescott's jiving to Things Can Only Get Better on Election Night 1997).

But surely not even Stevie Wonder would turn his head away from Alex Ferguson's accusation that Real Madrid, like their old mate Franco, are lacking in morals.

Because as everyone with the tiniest of smattering of football knowledge can tell you, when it comes to transfer dealings, Fergie is in no position to lecture others.

As for United's threat to urge FIFA to investigate Real Madrid for tapping-up Cristiano Ronaldo, can I, on behalf of world football, say: "Please Sir, bring it on".

Put simply, if Madrid were to ask FIFA to turn the same spotlight on Fergie it would open up a can of worms big enough for Bob Nudd to empty every river in the land of its pike population. The only question to be asked about Ferguson and tapping-up is where do you begin?

Let's stick with the last decade and start with the most publicised example: Jaap Stam detailing in his autobiography the precise methods employed by Fergie in 1998 to tap him up when he was still at PSV Eindhoven.

Ferguson wasn't investigated but Stam was shipped out, according to the Dutchman, for spilling the beans.

Remember in 2003 when United tried to sign Ronaldinho from Paris St Germain? Here's what their president Francis Graille said: "Manchester have not played the game in line with FIFA regulations.

"They have negotiated directly with the player. Even if they have got agreement from the player, they haven't got agreement from his club."

In the January of that year Sunderland chairman Bob Murray described Fergie's approaches to David Bellion as "shabby, despicable, disrespectful, arrogant and unprofessional".

And the previous summer United were accused of tapping-up Rennes full-back Julien Escude, after the France Under-21 international player claimed Ferguson had spoken to him on his mobile phone.

Ask Leeds and Everton about the behind-the-scenes connivance with Rio Ferdinand's and Wayne Rooney's agents before they moved to Old Trafford. Ask Fulham's Mohammed Al Fayed why he raged about Fergie "constantly unsettling my players" as he pursued Luis Saha. Ask Bayern Munich chairman Karl-Heinz Rummenigge why he said in 2006: "We have told Manchester United that they should stop trying to tempt Owen Hargreaves. If they don't, then we will have to turn to FIFA."

But best of all, ask PSV Eindhoven's chairman Harry van Raaij about Fergie's behaviour in courting Ruud van Nistelrooy in 2000. Specifically his quote "he has crossed the line of decency".

Then ask him why, in 2004, when Arjen Robben was given the red-carpet treatment at United's training ground while still a PSV player, van Raaij flew into a rage and said: "It is Ferguson's way of doing business. A leopard never changes his spots."

I could go on but you get the picture. Before Ferguson conjures up images of the Madrid dictator Franco he should look hard into his mirror. For him to question the morals of another club when it comes exerting psychological pressure on a player he's set his sights on, is laughable.

To think a FIFA inquiry into deals which haven't gone strictly by the book would put another club in a worse light than his own, is dangerously deluded.

It must be down to the ease with which he has run rings around the petrified English authorities (as currently exemplified by the FA appealing against themselves for bizarrely letting Fergie and his assistant Carlos Queiroz off an improper conduct charge after attacking referee Martin Atkinson and his boss Keith Hackett).

Fergie knows better than anyone that one of the major reasons for his phenomenal success has been an ability to tie up deals with some of the world's best players.

Deals which, for every club in the world, often mean stretching the rule-book to the limits.

Hypocrisy, eh? Bloody hell.

corcaighcailin9

Oh if ever someone was trying to stir some sh!t... and I don't mean Sir Alex or the journalist...

Mr Alan

not stirring ****e, just using an article to point out his hypocricy.

corcaighcailin9

Maybe a touch hypocritical but it's getting a bit old now all the talk of Ronaldo and Madrid it must be p!ssing him off a bit by this stage. I'm not surprised he's doing everything in his power to try and get him to stay. It would be the equivilant of Benitez wanting to keep..... am..... let me think.... world class match winner at Anfield... I'll think about it and get back to ya

Mitch Connor

Yep - Fergie and United are certainly no angels.

However, no club in the world is as bad for it as Real Madrid, and it is the public courting of the player that has annoyed me, and seemingly United the most - as it has done much to both turn the players head and fans against him.

Nalz

meh

Mr Alan

corcaighcailin9 wrote: »

I'll think about it and get back to ya

dont think too hard, ya might hurt yourself

corcaighcailin9

Yeah sound still thinking and nothing doing i'm afraid

Mitch Connor

corcaighcailin9 wrote: »

Yeah sound still thinking and nothing doing i'm afraid

Torres.

have that out of the way now....

corcaighcailin9

As we say around here... meh

kippy

What's your point Mr Alan? More worried about what happens at Man U than over at Anfield again by the looks of it again.
Trolling again?
Kippy

corcaighcailin9

Hee hee i'll +1 that

Mr. Presentable

corcaighcailin9 wrote: »

As we say around here... meh, like

Fixed.

An Citeog

I got as far as Brian "bitter Scouser" Reade and stopped reading. It's not that Ronaldo has been tapped-up etc that's the problem, it's how it was done. Real have been so blatant and arrogant about it that you just can't ignore it. Using the media, getting his mother to hold a picture of him in a Madrid jersey etc. At least Fergie has always been fairly discreet about it!:p Real are a horrible club who've always had carte blanche to steal other teams players in Spain and basically do whatever the hell they like.

Dub13

corcaighcailin9 wrote: »

Oh if ever someone was trying to stir some sh!t... and I don't mean Sir Alex or the journalist...

I disagree,this merits a discussion.Ask any Everton fan about how they felt when Utd came in for Rooney.

corcaighcailin9

nipplenuts wrote: »

Fixed.

??????

SantryRed

In all fairness he's not trolling, he's just pointing out how hypocritical Ferguson is being in saying he'd report Madrid to FIFA.:rolleyes:

corcaighcailin9

I know that. I was just taking the opportunity to wind him up...

OPENROAD

Mr Alan wrote: »

dont think too hard, ya might hurt yourself

well she is from Cork, you might be waiting for a bit

Mr Alan

kippy wrote: »

What's your point Mr Alan? More worried about what happens at Man U than over at Anfield again by the looks of it again.
Trolling again?
Kippy

yea,trolling :rolleyes:

is ferguson beyond criticism or something?

corcaighcailin9

OPENROAD wrote: »

well she is from Cork, you might be waiting for a bit

He??????????? Cailin means girl pal. I'm a SHE not a HE!!

Mr Alan

An Citeog wrote: »

Real are a horrible club who've always had carte blanche to steal other teams players in Spain and basically do whatever the hell they like.

Could just as easily say the exact same thing about Utd in England over the last 20 years.

corcaighcailin9

No I don't think Fergie is beyond criticism I just think this has been the hot topic of debate since that day after the glorious day we won the CL. All the speculation has gotten to Ronaldo and Fergie is clearly just fed up.

OPENROAD

corcaighcailin9 wrote: »

he??????????? Cailin Means Girl Pal. I'm A She Not A He!!

changed

kippy

Mr Alan wrote: »

yea,trolling :rolleyes:

is ferguson beyond criticism or something?

Nope, in the same way that your hero Rafa isnt beyond criticism either.
However to create a new topic to point out the obvious is a bit beyond a joke-Fergie is a hypocrite. Yep, agree 100% and not just when it comes to this matter.
The same can be said of the comments and attitudes of all other PL managers.
Kippy

Dub13

Lets keep this about the article and not taken swipes against each other.

By the way were is the article taken from..?

Mr Alan

Brian Reade in the Mirror Dub13

kippy

Dub13 wrote: »

Lets keep this about the article and not taken swipes against each other.

By the way were is the article taken from..?

Fergie, Hypocrite - yes. Decent article.
Down with this sort of "tapping up" from all clubs.
Kippy

corcaighcailin9

Dunphy is on a rant now on RTE2. Sigh!

Mitch Connor

Dub13 wrote: »

I disagree,this merits a discussion.Ask any Everton fan about how they felt when Utd came in for Rooney.

don't remember any tapping up issue with rooney - it all went public once we put a bid in, but i don't rember tapping up crap before hand

yabadabado

all teams tap up players to a certain degree and united are no angels but real do it thru the media mostly with the paper marca.they dont try to be discreet at all

BTW mr.alan you should edit the thread name- its Sir Alex Ferguson

Malice

An Citeog wrote: »

Using the media, getting his mother to hold a picture of him in a Madrid jersey etc. At least Fergie has always been fairly discreet about it!:p

Didn't Paul Ince appear in a Man Utd shirt before actually leaving West Ham back in 1989 or 1990 or whenever it was?

corcaighcailin9

yabadabado wrote: »

BTW mr.alan you should edit the thread name- its Sir Alex Ferguson

Ouch, bet your sorry now you started this bloody thread

cHaTbOx

There's some good points there but i think the threat of reportin real madrid to fifa is to do with power. Manchester united want the power to see madrids offers to them and not to ronaldo.If they go to the player first they have the power as they can see if they can tempt him and then if they see he want to come they will not have to pay over the odds as the club will know that a player is useless if he doesnt want to play for the club.In all those cases they tried to tempt the player and once they knew they wanted to come to the club they didnt have to pay over the odds for them as the club knew that the player didnt want to play with them any more.thats my two cents.It's about power in negotiations

Dub13

Tauren wrote: »

don't remember any tapping up issue with rooney - it all went public once we put a bid in, but i don't rember tapping up crap before hand

Moyesy and Blue Bill put up a united front over the Wayne Rooney saga, at last night's EGM. They both insisted that it was Rooney's decision to want away from Goodison, and the pair of them tried everything in their power to keep the boyhood Blue.

Moyesy says: "The player wanted to go and that is the truth. As long as I am the manager here at Everton Football Club I will always tell you truth. And I can tell you that we did everything possible to persuade Wayne to stay.


Blue Bill says: "I did the very best deal in heartbreaking circumstances but I did the best deal I could for Everton. We absolutely did not instruct Paul Stretford to sell Wayne Rooney three or four months ago. For the last nine months, the manager and myself have been working tirelessly to keep Wayne Rooney at Everton.

It is true that we discovered he wanted to leave three Sundays ago. David and I had been meeting Paul Stretford and Wayne Rooney for nine months. We were convinced that until two-and-a-half weeks ago that Wayne would sign the new contract that had been on the desk since July 6. Then a few Sundays a ago David got a call from Paul Stretford saying he wanted to to meet him the next day. We thought it was in connection with the problems he was having in the Sunday newspapers but it was that he wanted to leave the club." (10/09/04)

Link

mike65

malice_ wrote: »

Didn't Paul Ince appear in a Man Utd shirt before actually leaving West Ham back in 1989 or 1990 or whenever it was?

Yep, no matter who he was playing for Incy got no end of stick at Upton Park on a visit.
http://www.manutdzone.com/atoz/i.html

Mike

Mitch Connor

Dub13 wrote: »

Link

ok - where does it say United tapped him up. According to everything I read at the time United wanted to sign him the following year, and it was the Newcastle bid that prompted United into action at the time. so... it is as likely that Newcastle were the team to tap him up. There is no mention there that united tapped him up. Can a player not decide to leave without having been tapped up?

super_furry

Sure wasn't Jaap Stam sold for revealing how he was tapped up in his biography?

corcaighcailin9

I think we're more used to players leaving us for smaller clubs tbh. For Ronaldo to really want to go to a club as big as us is kinda new

Dub13

Tauren wrote: »

ok - where does it say United tapped him up. According to everything I read at the time United wanted to sign him the following year, and it was the Newcastle bid that prompted United into action at the time. so... it is as likely that Newcastle were the team to tap him up. There is no mention there that united tapped him up. Can a player not decide to leave without having been tapped up?

Ok it does not say Utd tapped him up as if this was the case I am sure Everton would have had them up in front of a tribunal if it could be proving.At the time the dogs in the street knew Utd were interested in him,by its very nature tapping up a player is very hard to prove.

If there are any Everton fans on reading this I am sure they would have a better recall on this than me.

Mitch Connor

and everyone know some of the spannish clubs, and chelsea, and Arsenal were interested. Does that mean they all tapped him up?

Xavi6

corcaighcailin9 wrote: »

I think we're more used to players leaving us for smaller clubs tbh. For Ronaldo to really want to go to a club as big as us is kinda new

Beckham and Van Nistelrooy made that same move years ago so it's not really that new.

There was also that time when Terry Cooke left to join a bigger club....

Dub13

Tauren wrote: »

and everyone know some of the spannish clubs, and chelsea, and Arsenal were interested. Does that mean they all tapped him up?

We will have to agree to disagree on this as I (and I am sure others) feel there was more than just 'interest' from Utd.You on the other hand don't,as I said before it is very hard to prove.

kippy

If we are talking about something that is very hard to prove, why are we talking about it?

Dub13

kippy wrote: »

If we are talking about something that is very hard to prove, why are we talking about it?

IMO because there have been a few to make it more than a concordance some we may have got wrong maybe even the rooney one but surly it has happened.

corcaighcailin9

Xavi6 wrote: »

Beckham and Van Nistelrooy made that same move years ago so it's not really that new.

There was also that time when Terry Cooke left to join a bigger club....

But Beckham and VN weren't as young as Ronaldo is now. That was more a case of Fergie trying to cash in while he could

Dub13

corcaighcailin9 wrote: »

But Beckham and VN weren't as young as Ronaldo is now. That was more a case of Fergie trying to cash in while he could

I would tend to agree,Beckham and VN were ether at there peak or on the way down.This on the other hand is a player who should not be at his peak yet.

Xavi6

corcaighcailin9 wrote: »

But Beckham and VN weren't as young as Ronaldo is now. That was more a case of Fergie trying to cash in while he could

Fair enough. Terry Cooke on the other hand was of similar age......

kippy

Theres no doubt United have tapped up players before. However I could easily say that every club in the English professional leagues have done the same.
I believe that the apparent lack of any sanctions for doing this in the past is the fact that, as you say, it's so difficult to prove.
Nowadays most transfers are discussed in the media long before they actually happen. Who actually leaks the stories to the media, the players, the agents or the clubs or whether they are totally factitious are the cause of many issues.
In a lot of cases the players agents, I believe are in a cosy relationship with many journalists. It is in their interests for the players under their guard are moving between clubs. These people are as responsible for the amount of "tapping up going on as the clubs or the players in my opinions. Newspapers on the other hand are out to sell papers. It is comical every day the amount of players that are linked with various clubs with about 2% of all stories I would reckon actually turning out to be correct. You only have to look on Man U's site for a list of all the players linked with them in a single day in the media.
Then the papers have the cheek to say "we told you so" when one of the many hundreds of links they've made actually appears to be correct.

I dont believe anyone will be reported to FIFA in this instance. If FIFA believed they could do anything about this type of behaviour they would have done so long ago. United are just flexing their muscle so to speak.
Fergie is of course a hypocrite however it would be nice to see this type of thing stamped out but so long as there are agents and so many others in the game who have so much money to gain from these transfers there'll always be some form of tapping up. nowadays we even see it in the "transfer" of managers between clubs.
Kippy

corcaighcailin9

Dub13 wrote: »

I would tend to agree,Beckham and VN were ether at there peak or on the way down.This on the other hand is a player who should not be at his peak yet.

Agreed.

Dub13

kippy wrote: »

Theres no doubt United have tapped up players before. However I could easily say that every club in the English professional leagues have done the same.

I agree 100%,but what this article discusses is when very rarely tapping up goes against Sir Alex he crys foul play which is a bit ironic.