Pot,Kettle,Black Mr Alex Ferguson

kippy

Dub13 wrote: »

I agree 100%,but what this article discusses is when very rarely tapping up goes against Sir Alex he crys foul play which is a bit ironic.

Ironic-of course it is.
Lets have a laugh at Sir Alex for being so stupid. End of discussion.
Just remembered. The only case of a club/player getting fined for this type of thing was Chelsea and the A Cole saga-so I guess it has been proven before.
The thing is, no matter what Sir Alex has done in the past NO club have actually reported them to FIFA for tapping any player up so I guess thats why, despite this being Ironic, United havent actually being proven to have tapped up any player in a court before. Hence all we are talking about her is alleged.

Kippy

Mr Alan

Kippy, you are aware that if you dont like a thread or topic, you dont have to discuss it...yes?

kippy

Mr Alan wrote: »

Kippy, you are aware that if you dont like a thread or topic, you dont have to discuss it...yes?

I am fully aware of this facet of a forum such as this.
However I have an opinion on this topic despite my concern as to why it was initially posted.
Kippy

Dub13

kippy wrote: »

I am fully aware of this facet of a forum such as this.
However I have an opinion on this topic despite my concern as to why it was initially posted.
Kippy

If you have a concern about anything like this report a post and let the mods deal with it.Please don't derail a thread,this goes for everybody.

Dave!

So the other clubs should have reported Man Utd to FIFA also...... Their own fault they didn't

Mr Alan

have Real ever been reported to FIFA?

Mitch Connor

i'd just like to remind Mr.Alan about liverool tapping up Heinze last summer

Dub13

Tauren wrote: »

i'd just like to remind Mr.Alan about liverool tapping up Heinze last summer

I think we could all agree it happens at most top clubs,maybe it cant be stopped now the players have the power but FIFA/UEFA should look into it before it gets major out of hand.

Mr Alan

would Heinze be classed as tapping up?

Utd said they were letting him leave, his agent went looking for clubs, along with a letter advising him that Utd were selling him in the summer.

Tapping up?

Hardly.

Mitch Connor

Mr Alan wrote: »

would Heinze be classed as tapping up?

Utd said they were letting him leave, his agent went looking for clubs, along with a letter advising him that Utd were selling him in the summer.

Tapping up?

Hardly.

United rejected an approach from liverpool. REJECTED. and Liverpool continued to speak to Heinze, and his agent, and in the press.

Mr Alan

As far as Liverpool were concerned they were well within their rights, hence the court case/hearing thing etc, think calling that tapping up, in the same way as the cases mentioned in the article and the way Real are going at Ronaldo is a bit silly. But i am under no false illusions we have never tapped up anyone.

still hurts he was willing to move to us doesnt it mate

Mitch Connor

liverpool may have felt they were within their rights, but they weren't, once their approach had been rejected they should have cut contact, but they didn't, they continued which means they were tapping up.

Dub13

Tauren wrote: »

liverpool may have felt they were within their rights, but they weren't, once their approach had been rejected they should have cut contact, but they didn't, they continued which means they were tapping up.

You have a point but you have to remember if I recall correctly Liverpool met the valuation Utd had on him and they would not sell just because it was Liverpool.By all accounts this was not a normal transfer situation.

Little-Devil

Mr Alan wrote: »

still hurts he was willing to move to us doesnt it mate

Liverpool are tapping up Barry the last few weeks, Villa rejected a bid but Benitez came out and made it public because he was told NO from the start. Liverpool made a bit for Heinze and it was rejected, liverpool and Benitez came out to argue that Manutd did not want sell to them even though the player wanted to move.

SAF is not saint, tapping up is done by every club everywhere, its goes through the papers or agents. Manutd have tapped up numerours players over the last few seasons, Hargraves, Carrick, Nani but so what, it does not warrant a thread but i think some is trying to bait manutd fans and guess what is Mr. Alan, before i even opened this i knew you'd prob be behind this.

I think the Ronaldo story is quite similar to Barry except its to small english clubs fighting.

Mr Alan

ya didnt answer my question Tauren, still hurts doesnt it

oh we had some fabulous rows about that last year

~Rebel~

That alleged letter allowing Heinze to leave caused an awful lot of hassle as when Utd rebuffed the offer from pool, the agent still maintained pool had a legel right to buy him once the price was met. But i dont think it was tapping up, just a mess. Just wasted so much of everyone's time and left us short at the back in the end.

Mitch Connor

But, the fact is the hearing agreed with United, therefor what Liverpool did was incorrect, regardless of their belief.

Anyway, I would reckon all clubs tap up to an extent, so it is only ever arguing about degrees.

I just take exception to the very public nature Real Madrid have acted, especially their coach speaking as if Ronaldo had already signed.

Mitch Connor

Mr Alan wrote: »

ya didnt answer my question Tauren, still hurts doesnt it

oh we had some fabulous rows about that last year

ok, i'll answer. It never hurt, but it did annoy that a player who seemed to 'get' the club, thought he could sign for Liverpool without the fans or the club getting annoyed by it - he just didn't get it.

Mr Alan

Little-Devil wrote: »

Liverpool are tapping up Barry the last few weeks, Villa rejected a bid but Benitez came out and made it public because he was told NO from the start. Liverpool made a bit for Heinze and it was rejected, liverpool and Benitez came out to argue that Manutd did not want sell to them even though the player wanted to move.
I think the Ronaldo story is quite similar to Barry except its to small english clubs fighting.

Surely?!

We are not tapping up Barry. Not at all.

Gerrards interview may have been a little stupid, but not tapping up or breaking any rules. All he said was he likes playing with class players. And that he thought Barry was a class player.

Barry wants to go, Villa are willing to do business at the right price, thats where its at at the minute.

in wat world do you live in where Liverpool and Aston Villa are small clubs?!

Little-Devil

Mr Alan wrote: »

Surely?!

We are not tapping up Barry. Not at all.

Gerrards interview may have been a little stupid, but not tapping up or breaking any rules.

Barry wants to go, Villa are willing to do business at the right amount, thats where its at at the minute.

Villa rejected liverpools bid straight away, but it was some how leaked to the papers, which barry probably heard and we all know Gerrard & Barry are good friends outside football so i would defo say liverpool are tapping up and using Gerrard as well to have a quite word.

Mr Alan wrote: »

in wat world do you live in where Liverpool and Aston Villa are small clubs?!

I am just compairing them to Real Madrid & Manutd, please to stick the topic Mr. Alan

Mr Alan

Liverpool are Europes top ranking team in the last 5 years.

They have won more trophies than any club in England EVER.

In comparrison to any club, we are still about as big as club as you can get.

Small club, pfffft.

so its gone from Liverpool are tapping up Barry, to "I would say Liverpool are tapping up Barry"

Lets just deal with things we actually know for sure please....your conspiracy theories are silly. They have a seperate forum for that kind of thing afaik.

redcrew

while tapping up happens everywhere at clubs like Barca and Real it is worse because every few years you have a presidency race, and if not people trying to hold onto a presidency so that they promise to get the best players so that they get/keep their job... i pay no attention to who is president at Real at the moment but i'm sure he'd be ousted if the next challenger said he was going to get Ronaldo and he didn't

i don't agree with tapping up and it should be stamped out...whether it's a smaller club having their stars tapped up or big clubs fighting...i think all players should be made aware of bids for them and if they want to leave the club have the right to demand money for the player but there's no point in a player playing for a club if he wants to leave... it'll affect his form and reduce him as a player

Mitch Connor

Mr Alan wrote: »

Liverpool are Europes top ranking team in the last 5 years.

They have won more trophies than any club in England EVER.

In comparrison to any club, we are still about as big as club as you can get.

Small club, pfffft.

so its gone from Liverpool are tapping up Barry, to "I would say Liverpool are tapping up Barry"

Lets just deal with things we actually know for sure please....your conspiracy theories are silly. They have a seperate forum for that kind of thing afaik.

Have they, i think FA Cup and League cup wins puts United top. I THINK. someone said it to me the other day but i never checked it out.

Mr Alan

afraid not Tauren

http://www.thesoccerblog.org/europe/man-united-won-the-champions-league-but-liverpool-remain-the-top-dogs-in-europe/

Utd are in 7th

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/05/28/reds-top-european-rankings-chart-100252-20985976/

grahamo

I'm having a good laugh reading about the holier than thou liverpool fans views on tapping up players. Every team does it, Its just that they do it discreetly by bending the rules instead of breaking them. Real on the other hand like to BLATANTLY tap up their players through the media showing no respect for the other club involved.

An example of how players are "persuaded" would be the Benayoun transfer which went as follows:

Yossi Beanyoun announced that he was going to sign a new 5 year deal with West Ham, Liverpool phoned Yossi's agent and told him not to sign as they were going to make a bid for him

Liverpool phoned West Ham and were told no he wasn't for sale as he was about to sign a new 5 year contract

Rafa offers 1 Million for him, West Ham tell him where to shove it

Liverpool phone Yossi's agent telling him that West Ham will not negotiate and tell him not to sign the contract as they will sign him

Liverpool slightly increase their bid but do not disclose the fee, West Ham reject it.

Liverpool phone Yossi an tell him that they are not interested in him anymore as West Ham are not willing to negotiate a fee, they recommend that if he wants to join he speak to the manager and takes action.

Yossi digs his heels in, refuses to sign a new contract, says he doesn't want to play for West Ham and is happy to play badly and pick up his wages

West Ham sell him on the cheap

The funny thing is is that West Ham only wanted 5 million for him but Rafa would not pay that and instead decided to use the above method to sign him.

Mr Alan

emmmm,

all the above is made up.

and we paid 5 million for Benayoun.

seriously, you cant just make **** up mate.

grahamo

Mr Alan wrote: »

afraid not Tauren

http://www.thesoccerblog.org/europe/man-united-won-the-champions-league-but-liverpool-remain-the-top-dogs-in-europe/

Utd are in 7th

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/05/28/reds-top-european-rankings-chart-100252-20985976/

Mr Alan wrote: »

emmmm,

all the above is made up.

and we paid 5 million for Benayoun.

seriously, you cant just make **** up mate.

I can assure you its not made up.
Liverpool tapped him up, everybody knows that. He was totally in love with West Ham after they offered him a great five year contract, saying he never wanted to leave. Then came Liverpool and he obviously changed his tune.

Mr Alan

wat are you quoting the other post for?

Its made up Graham. And we paid 5 million for Benayoun.

grahamo

Mr Alan wrote: »

wat are you quoting the other post for?

Its made up Graham. And we paid 5 million for Benayoun.

West Ham had a fans meeting , headed by Scott Duxbury, the clubs legal director.
Duxbury confirmed that Benayoun was tapped up by Liverpool and refused to play for West Ham again until he got his move.

Why west Ham didn't take it any further I don't know, they were probably happy to get rid of Benayoun in the end,no point in having a player who won't play. But over in West Ham land its common knowledge what happened.

Mr Alan

as soon as Liverpool made an offer for Yossi, he wanted to leave.THAT is common knowledge.

Again, that is not tapping up.

You already rubbished your whole post by saying we got Yossi on the cheap and refused to meet WestHams £5m price instead getting him for just over a million, when in actual fact we paid £5m.

so i'll say again, please dont just make up cases to make your point.

grahamo

Mr Alan wrote: »

as soon as Liverpool made an offer for Yossi, he wanted to leave.THAT is common knowledge.

Again, that is not tapping up.

You already rubbished your whole post by saying we got Yossi on the cheap and refused to meet WestHams £5m price instead getting him for just over a million, when in actual fact we paid £5m.

so i'll say again, please dont just make up cases to make your point.

Take off the blinkers son.
A couple of weeks before Liverpool made an offer Benayoun was telling Hammers fans he wanted to stay forever. liverpools offer was rejected by West Ham. That should have been the end of it. The player was clearly influenced by Liverpool through his agent. You can find the minutes of the meeting where it was confirmed by a West Ham Official that Benayoun was tapped up. Its all over the internet.

Mr Alan

link to that west ham official statement please?

Mr Alan

grahamo wrote: »

Its all over the internet.

http://uk.acer.yahoo.com/

there is a lot of the **** on the internet.

check out the video of the alien i posted above.

motto? dont believe everything you read on the internet.

grahamo

Mr Alan wrote: »

link to that west ham official statement please?

http://westham.wordpress.com/2008/04/18/report-from-the-fans-forum-2/

Mr Alan

grahamo wrote: »

http://westham.wordpress.com/2008/04/18/report-from-the-fans-forum-2/

LOL wat a pack of ****e, sorry mate, thats a fan site, its not a proper link. i have no doubt a lot of west ham fans think he was tapped up, but you cant really just say that without providing any proof, especially when your first post was so factually incorrect.

grahamo

Sorry Al, but I think those fans that attended the meeting with club officials would know a bit more about what went on than you.
My whole point is that "tapping up" or bending the rules to get the player you want goes on with most clubs. Madrid go over the top.

Mr Alan

those 20 odd fans could have been fed any aul ****e by the club officials in order to appease them. if the club "knew" that Yossi was tapped up, i have no doubt it would have been news. the officials were hardly gonna say, we werent able to do our job properly and convince Yossi to stay, so we flogged one of our best players.

Liverpool wouldnt need to tap up Yossi, make offer, offer rejected, player wants move. make improved offer, player moves.

we paid their asking price after all Grahamo. not the 1 million you originally said.

grahamo

Mr Alan wrote: »

those 20 odd fans could have been fed any aul ****e by the club officials in order to appease them. if the club "knew" that Yossi was tapped up, i have no doubt it would have been news. the officials were hardly gonna say, we werent able to do our job properly and convince Yossi to stay, so we flogged one of our best players.

Liverpool wouldnt need to tap up Yossi, make offer, offer rejected, player wants move. make improved offer, player moves.

we paid their asking price after all Grahamo. not the 1 million you originally said.

I've no doubt the fans could have been fed a load of crap by the officials to appease them but why would a club official come out and say that at a meeting, knowing what he said would spread like wildfire. Surely if there is no truth in it liverpool would be suing his arse off.
The thing is though, there's obviously an acceptable level of "tapping up"
between clubs that goes on. Clubs won't complain too much as they know that when it suits them they will do it themselves. No point in complaining to FIFA or UEFA either as they seem to do nothing about it.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

CHD

Why cant united fans discuss this instead of saying ''oh well they did it aswell so its actually ok''

kippy

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Completely Agree.

I'd also like to refresh the point that the only club in the PL who have actually tapped up a player according to the letter of the law is Chelsea. United have never been proven to tap up a player, neither have the Pool. Everything else we discuss here despite links to articles is absolute hearsay.

Kippy

kippy

chdpoker wrote: »

Why cant united fans discuss this instead of saying ''oh well they did it aswell so its actually ok''

What are you looking for here?
Discuss what? The fact that United tap up players also so its ironic for SAF to report Madrid to FIFA?
I dont think theres much to discuss to be honest. Its a fair comment.

kippy

Mr Alan wrote: »

http://uk.acer.yahoo.com/

there is a lot of the **** on the internet.

check out the video of the alien i posted above.

motto? dont believe everything you read on the internet.

Yet the main thrust of this whole topic is based on an article you found on said internet and any amount of proof you require so far on the various topics here have been in general on the internet.
Amusing.
Kippy

mcgarnicle

I think part of the reason Man Utd and its fans have become so upset about this is that for the past 10 years or so the impression has been that Man U are the biggest club in the world. It seems pretty clear that for most English/Irish/Scottish players this is the case... Man U probably have the biggest pulling power in the Premier League. I can't think of any previous examples where a player Man U genuinely wanted to keep left the club, maybe someone else can remind me?

The fact that Ronaldo has stated that it's his dream to play for Real has obviously come as a bit of a shock to both club and fans. For me though it makes perfect sense.
When Ronaldo was a boy in Portugal do you think he was idolising the likes of Andrei Kanchelskis, Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs and the other top midfield players that United had while Ronaldo was in his formative years... or is it more likely he was looking at his compatriots Figo and Rui Costa at the big Italian and Spanish sides?

I think people over here sometimes assume that just because Man U are viewed as the major force here that the whole world feels the same. It seems obvious to me that a Portuguese kid watching football would be attuned to the goings on in the nearby major league (Spain) as an Irish kid would be tuned into what was going on in the Premier League.

There are a lot of doubts surrounding Ronaldo's motives... is he just moving for money? I'd say he genuinly wants to play for what was probably his boyhood club.

_blank_

Is it ironic that Alex Ferguson complains about Real madrid tapping up a player, when his own club seemingly do it too?

Yes, it is.

Is it ironic that Mr Alan starts a thread about ManU's manager complaining about Real madrid tapping up a player, when his own club seemingly do it too, when his own club seemingly do it too?

Yes, it is.

Meh, all clubs do it, get over it ffs.

In fairness, it's well documented that Ronaldo has said he'd like to play for Madrid one day. Show me a player from the Iberian Peninsula who wouldn't tbh.

Is he tapping himself up?

evad_lhorg

whatever. reports madrid to fifa anyway

citytillidie

And United are not using the media to unsettle Aaron Ramsey?

Letting Sky Sports News break news that they had signed him when in fact Cardiff just accepted a bid from United aswell as Arsenal and Everton.

fish fingers

^^ That is a load of shi te if i ever heard it

Y2J_MUFC

Brian "Anti-United" Reade. Of course credible sources were provided for all mis-quotes, uh, excuse me, "quotes".

Anyway, its the usual rubbish. Anybody who thinks what Madrid are doing is fine, obviously needs their head examined. As usual, instead of actually saying one word against Real Madrid (heaven-forbid, someone write an article that isn't anti-United - shock, shock, horror) over their pathetic and blatant attempts to sign Ronnie (thats something WORTH writing an article about), because its United, we get the usual load of bitter, bitter, anti-United rubbish.

All clubs do it. However, Real Madrid have taken it to an absolutely ridiculous level. We're having daily Ronaldo/Calderon and Schuster updates, ffs. Daily press releases from Real's newspaper, Marca, and that Brazilian website which also has links to....wait, you've guessed it, Real Madrid.

I'm sure Mr. Reade was delighted to see United lift the European Cup in Moscow. I'm sure he was happy seeing United win our 10th Premiership title. Bitter some? I think so.:p:p:p:p:p:p

Y2J_MUFC

citytillidie wrote: »

And United are not using the media to unsettle Aaron Ramsey?

Letting Sky Sports News break news that they had signed him when in fact Cardiff just accepted a bid from United aswell as Arsenal and Everton.

OH GOOD GOD....Absolute total 100% horse manure. What a load of rubbish. I actually couldn't stop laughing that someone ACTUALLY said that.

United control third party indepedant media now, do they? Of course, United should be docked points for failing in their duties to regulate Sky Sports News.