caught drink driving what to do now?

Marcus.Aurelius

seandugg wrote: »

so how can you create a law which takes into account the minority of good drivers and keeps the majority who are not at a safe speed?

You have to set the limits at the lower end of the skill zone, but that's not what the government are doing. With proper defensive driving training, most people could easily drive at 150 kph safely on a motorway and 120 kph on dual carriageways.

They just don't want to spend any money or put the effort in.

EDIT: Even better yet, abolish speed limits outside towns and watch the death toll fall like a stone a year or two in when drivers learn how to drive again.

javaboy

Dragan wrote: »

2 years ago my uncle was killed, as he walked down the street, by some cnut who jumped the kerb because he was going too fast.

In his defence "i always did it....never had an accident before". If he had been traveling within the speed limit i could forgive the prick, but he wasn't.

You're a much more forgiving person than I am. If someone was travelling below the limit and mounted the kerb and killed a relative of mine I don't think I could forgive them.

seandugg

seandugg wrote: »

Once again what people think their skill level is, and what it is in reality is the problem. Thats why as long a people still stay, "im experienced"
or "i can handle the speed, iv driven like this for years" there will be carnage.

Am I right or wrong?

It's not just speed, it's driving according to the enviroment (weather, vehicle, traffic night/day, experience of the driver & familiarity of the route(can be counterproductive as well) & condition of the road).

People appear now to be brainwashed into thinking that the limit on the sign is absolute and unquestionable.

seandugg

Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »

You have to set the limits at the lower end of the skill zone, but that's not what the government are doing. With proper defensive driving training, most people could easily drive at 150 kph safely on a motorway and 120 kph on dual carriageways.

They just don't want to spend any money or put the effort in.

If you set the limit at 150, people will still break the limit except then they will be pushing for 170/180 which as u said wud be outside the tolerance for the motorway. (where u get that info wud like to have a read nd it contradicts the stuff i was reading?)


"With proper defensive driving training"
We both know this is not gonna happen, for at least 20 years in ireland.

Dragan

javaboy wrote: »

You're a much more forgiving person than I am. If someone was travelling below the limit and mounted the kerb and killed a relative of mine I don't think I could forgive them.

Vehicles will sometimes go out of control. It happens and you can't do anything about it and no point in getting caught on that fact....i imagine the drivers in such instances feel worse than anyone.

Dudess

Dinter wrote: »

If they think that having crashed or ran someone over or being caught by the guards and adding a miniscule percentile to all our insurance premiums can be excused with a whine of "it's fine, I'm usually far more responsible" or "I blacked out and drove home", then all I can say is tough shit and I hope the judge rapes your license.

Nobody's excusing that.

seandugg wrote: »

The focus isnt on you at all kbannon, its on the dead 20 year olds that get pulled out of ditches every week

Eh, it clearly IS on kbannon. That 20-year-old comment seems like back-pedalling to me. Nobody is defending those stupid tools.

Dragan wrote: »

2 years ago my uncle was killed, as he walked down the street, by some cnut who jumped the kerb because he was going too fast.

Again, nobody is defending cnuts like him. Speeding a little bit (as opposed to "bombing" it) on a quiet dual carriageway is just incomparable to what caused your uncle's death. My condolences - that's horrific.

If your going over the speed limit you are putting lives at risk.....people are assuming cars will travel a certain distance at a certain speed

That's too much of a generalisation Dragan. If you go 5km over the speed limit on the dual carriageway when it's freeflowing, you are NOT putting lives at risk.

.....my uncle was killed on a perfectly straight road walking on the opposite side of the road on the foot path in the same direction the vehicle was traveling in.

That's highly dangerous driving, please don't compare someone like me to that moron.

Next time anyone decides to up the speed think about that one. If something goes wrong you will not be able to react in time and may kill yourself ( which i wouldn't worry about too much ) or some poor innocent bastard out for a ****ing stroll.

Again, doesn't apply to the dual carriageway. I would not be physically capable of speeding - even slightly - in a built-up area. I just wouldn't. A sense of danger would stop me from doing so.

So **** you speeding assholes. Each and every one of you. If you would like to think that is Personal Abuse then ****ing roll with it.

Get a grip Dragan. That's not fair on anyone who does a few km over on the dual carriageway.

Marcus.Aurelius

seandugg wrote: »

If you set the limit at 150, people will still break the limit except then they will be pushing for 170/180 which as u said wud be outside the tolerance for the motorway. (where u get that info wud like to have a read nd it contradicts the stuff i was reading?)


"With proper defensive driving training"
We both know this is not gonna happen, for at least 20 years in ireland.

Check out safespeed.org.uk, or alternatively, there was a community in the US that tested a no-limits approach to their roads, and their death toll fell dramatically.

They couldn't leave it running, as it contradicted some of their own local laws.

And I agree with your analysis of Ireland regarding training. It'll probably never happen, but it doesn't change the fact that it could be the right thing to do.

EDIT: Can you leave out the txtspk please? It burns

NullZer0

Cop on!

Marcus.Aurelius

iRock wrote: »

Cop on!

ShiverinEskimo

Deleted User wrote:

PS in western Australia there are NO speed limits on any roads, most drivers just cruise along at 80 - 100kmh

This is late, but I was late to this party and couldn’t let it slide – The above is total horse sh1t. ALL roads in WA have speed limits. That or I dreamt my three months work in Perth in the Infringement Management Office sending out speeding fines. How on Earth did you think there was none? The State limit is 110kph and which is the same as most other states apart from ACT (100kph) and Darwin (130kph). I was able to remind myself of all of the above in two seconds using Google. I suggest you do the same in future before posting crap like that.

Dudess wrote:

On dual carriageways/motorways? And even just an excessive speed of, say, 3km per hour extra? The only road accident I'm aware of on a dual carriageway involved a bunch of articulated trucks absolutely bombing it on the Cork-Dublin road...

If you include motorways in that only a month ago there was a massive pile up at the airport junction on the M1 that took a full 13 hours to clear. I remember because it took my girlfriend 4 hours to get to the airport and she missed her flight to the Ireland v Columbia match in Fulham.

What happened? A break down at 3am and a truck drifted off the road into the hard shoulder hit the broken down car. Another car stopped to assist and a speeding van rear-ended him. It was 3pm the following day when it was cleared.

Anyone who thinks motorways are safe or ideal places to speed are plain ignorant. The 120kph speed limit isn’t just designed to be suitable depending on traffic congestion etc. Its designed also with stopping distances and unknown variables in mind - anyone who says its safe to go 140 when the road is wide, straight or quiet enough has obviously never had a blow-out.

Tarzan_man

I agree, a little bit of cop on would go a long way.

seandugg

seandugg wrote: »

If you set the limit at 150, people will still break the limit except then they will be pushing for 170/180 which as u said wud be outside the tolerance for the motorway. (where u get that info wud like to have a read nd it contradicts the stuff i was reading?)

No they won't, the vast majority of drivers & vehicles would be unsafe at those speeds and the drivers know it.

Marcus.Aurelius

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Anyone who thinks motorways are safe or ideal places to speed are plain ignorant. The 120kph speed limit isn’t just designed to be suitable depending on traffic congestion etc. Its designed also with stopping distances and unknown variables in mind - anyone who says its safe to go 140 when the road is wide, straight or quiet enough has obviously never had a blow-out.

Why would you drive on a motorway with sub-par or damaged tyres? And compared to rural roads and single laners, the motorways are very safe indeed. The amount I've attended on the M50 considering the traffic volumes, is paltry compared to rural roads.

My cousin is a mule with NSW police, he reckons the speed limits should be abolished so he can spend his time better, i.e. picking off actual dangerous drivers rather than deriving income for the state.

seandugg

Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »

Check out safespeed.org.uk, or alternatively, there was a community in the US that tested a no-limits approach to their roads, and their death toll fell dramatically.

They couldn't leave it running, as it contradicted some of their own local laws.

And I agree with your analysis of Ireland regarding training. It'll probably never happen, but it doesn't change the fact that it could be the right thing to do.

EDIT: Can you leave out the txtspk please? It burns

How do english motorways compare to irish design wise?

Not sure how aboloshing the limit would work here. Big difference between the 3 lane interstates and the M8. Also there is a serious difference in the power of the average car in the states compared with those on irish motorways. imagine a 17 years old i been told....go off there and drive as fast as u want.

Anyway im finished work, off to drive home observing every speed limit.....

ShiverinEskimo

Marcus.Aurelius wrote:

Why would you drive on a motorway with sub-par or damaged tyres? And compared to rural roads and single laners, the motorways are very safe indeed. The amount I've attended on the M50 considering the traffic volumes, is paltry compared to rural roads.

I knew, I just KNEW that someone would say something idiotic about sub standard tyres.

A blowout can happen on your way home from quikfit after a new tyre fit - if you hit a piece of debris big enough at a speed high enough your tyre will explode regardless of condition.

Dragan

Dudess wrote: »

Get a grip Dragan. That's not fair on anyone who does a few km over on the dual carriageway.

And what does WHERE you are speeding have to do with it? Speeding is speeding....plain and simple. I am finding it hard to see the distinction between when it is okay to break the law and when it is not in these circumstances.

I'm going to make on more post here, from the point of view of someone who has lost both a famaily member and a very close childhood friend in these circumstances.

My uncle was killed by a speeder, my friend was not.

In my friends case, even though i was only a kid, i was sad but i wasn't angry. It was an accident, everyone had been acting within the law.

In the case of a speeder you WILL feel angry. It's just the way it is. It's of **** all help to the family of the person killed that you are a good driver, might be a great person, might be a nun, might only have been 5km over the limit....you were driving too fast and inside their head all they will see as that being the cause.

Suddenly your family member wasn't killed by an accident, they were killed by a person and that makes it 10 times worse. You desperately look for reasons as to WHY the person died and it will almost always fall back inside you to blame the driver when you know they were traveling too fast.

It's just the way it is. There is no difference between 5km and 50km over the speed limit when you lose someone.....it's just over the limit.

And Dudess, not everyone has your sense of danger, not everyone even gives a ****. I have a 20 min walk from my house to work.....about once a week i will see an incident that could very easily get someone killed occur because there are plenty of people out there who are NOT like you.

ShiverinEskimo

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

This is late, but I was late to this party and couldn’t let it slide – The above is total horse sh1t. ALL roads in WA have speed limits. That or I dreamt my three months work in Perth in the Infringement Management Office sending out speeding fines. How on Earth did you think there was none? The State limit is 110kph and which is the same as most other states apart from ACT (100kph) and Darwin (130kph). I was able to remind myself of all of the above in two seconds using Google. I suggest you do the same in future before posting crap like that.

.

Sorry it was the Northern Territories that have no limits not WA.

Marcus.Aurelius

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

I knew, I just KNEW that someone would say something idiotioc about sub standard tyres.

A blowout can happen on your way home from quikfit after a new tyre fit - if you hit a piece of debris big enough at a speed high enough your tyre will explode regardless of condition.

Ah yes, of course, Sure that always happens on them autobahns.

Ah no wait, it doesn't. If they look after the road, debris like that shouldn't be an issue.

Steve

Dragan wrote: »

2 years ago my uncle was killed, as he walked down the street, by some cnut who jumped the kerb because he was going too fast.

Sorry to hear about that Dragan and I can see why you have a problem with 'speeding'

The point is 'unsafe speed' is not nessecarily the same thing as 'speeding'. Your uncles accident might easily have happened in a 100kph zone with the same tragic outcome, it would not have been due to 'speeding' though - it would have been due to travelling at an unsafe speed to the point that the driver was no longer in adequate control of the car.

seandugg wrote: »

Once again what people think their skill level is, and what it is in reality is the problem. Thats why as long a people still stay, "im experienced" or "i can handle the speed, iv driven like this for years" there will be carnage.

Am I right or wrong?

You are correct, this is exactly the reason so many young drivers die each year - they think they are 'experienced' when they are not.

seandugg wrote: »

With all due respect again, if we are talking about motorways...

The motorway speed is 120 for a reason. The roads are simply not designed to take more speed than this(too many exit/entry ramps). I take the point that higher speeds are safe on the german autobahns etc nbut those roads were designed to take those speeds, the irish motorways were not.

I read this a few days ago so ill try dig out the link for ye

I saw a documentary on this. The autobahns are designed differently so there will be less maintenance needed. They also have larger radius curves and are designed to sustain safe driving up to 250kmh (not sure of the exact figure).
The surface / grip levels on a dry straight stretch of Irish motorway are no different.
Our motorways are based on the UK design which, in the beginning, were unrestricted. Jaguar acually used to road test their cars at 150MPH on the motorways back then.

ShiverinEskimo

Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »

Ah yes, of course, Sure that always happens on them autobahns.

Ah no wait, it doesn't. If they look after the road, debris like that shouldn't be an issue.

EXACTLY - IF they look after the road blah blah - well here's the truth - they don't look after the roads here so blow outs are a possibility...

ShiverinEskimo

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

EXACTLY - IF they look after the road blah blah - well here's the truth - they don't look after the roads here so blow outs are a possibility...

Since I started working in Tallaght commuting from Athlone, I would say that about 60% of the road has been completely rebuilt (another 20% opening up in two weeks). the old sections are in places very poor, but I go slower along those sections (well below the limit)!

pvt.joker

Dudess wrote: »

Get a grip Dragan. That's not fair on anyone who does a few km over on the dual carriageway.

A few km?? Hardly...

Here we have

a) kbannon (mod of motors forum) - 150kmph+ regularly

b) peasant (mod of motors forum) 130 - 180kmph+ regularly.


Anyone spot a pattern?

Dudess

Dragan, you're not going to hit a pedestrian on a dual carriageway. The type of situation does make a difference.
stevec is spot-on - it is possible to go over the limit safely.

humanji

In fairness, Peasant stated he did that in Germany.

humanji

Dudess wrote:

Dragan, you're not going to hit a pedestrian on a dual carriageway. The type of situation does make a difference.

Correction, you're not going to expect to hit a pedestrian on a dual carriage way. So if one did run out in front of you, the faster you're going, the harder it will be to avoid them. Speed limits aren't targets. The world isn't going to end if you get home a few minutes later. People should just learn to relax and maybe there'll be a few less accidents and deaths in the world.

Kur4mA

pvt.joker wrote: »

A few km?? Hardly...

Here we have

a) kbannon (mod of motors forum) - 150kmph+ regularly

b) peasant (mod of motors forum) 130 - 180kmph+ regularly.


Anyone spot a pattern?

Yep, it seems you can't read.

Steve

pvt.joker wrote: »

Anyone spot a pattern?

Yes, you're trolling here as well as in the feedback thread.

Dinter

Dudess wrote: »

Dragan, you're not going to hit a pedestrian on a dual carriageway. The type of situation does make a difference.
stevec is spot-on - it is possible to go over the limit safely.

Really, why not?

Ever driven through Stillorgan?

ShiverinEskimo

Deleted User wrote: »

Since I started working in Tallaght commuting from Athlone, I would say that about 60% of the road has been completely rebuilt (another 20% opening up in two weeks). the old sections are in places very poor, but I go slower along those sections (well below the limit)!

And fair play - but people seem to be of the opinion that the speed limit is a target and say that "this road I know is minefield and has an 80km limit". The rules are you drive to the conditions or you don't go over the limit.

People seem to be taking advantage of the whole drive to the conditions thing and applying it to better conditions thinking that gives them the ok to speed. It doesn't. The speed limit is that a limit, not a recommendation, not a "please go this speed" its a legal limit and going over it is never justified no matter what the conditions.

Dudess

Dinter wrote: »

Really, why not?

Ever driven through Stillorgan?

No, I haven't driven through Stillorgan. Do people hang out on the Stillorgan Dual Carriageway?