Love of maths only increased by the girl in the examiner

Syferus

turgon wrote: »

I was reading the Examiner and the exam diarist said "Maths is tough cause you cant learn off stuff like other exams".

Delighted. I took a real hard look at her ginger infused face, and just thought "oh ya girl, you cant handle the pressure of having to know, of having to be knowledgeable. Your usual tactics of memorizing wont work here biatch."

The over extremest nature of my thoughts stem for two reasons. One a love of maths, only increased by the fact that memoro-girls like herself wont beat me based only on their ability to remember.

Secondly a hatred of the fact that a lot of people (like the leprechaun in the Examiner) that do really good in the Leaving Cert arent normally overly bright, they just go to these fancy collages and soak up study techniques, where learning how to memorize is more important than learning the information itself. Where the subject doesnt matter, only how many points can be harvested thereof. What a lovely word to finish on.

I'd argue Maths is the easiest subject of all for pure memory.

It's easy to rememeber the format of how to answer a certain question in Maths without any regard for what it means or what it's sigificance is.

It's alot harder to write an essay about The Nuremburg Rallies without context than it is to answer a Maths question without a grasp of the context.

boobookitty

Oh, history, you little bugger!

Too bad there is no A, B, & C to a History question. (except the document)

BJC

turgon wrote: »

Please excuse me for expressing an opinion. If you will please explain your thoughts on the world at large I will be sure to mirror them as best I can.

As regards being accused of being jealous and pompous. I could explain why I am not jealous, but that would only make me appear even more pompous in your eyes.

Pompous - meanwhile, I am on the side of the fence that doesn't learn off stuff, but gets by by using my brain a bit. I was just making a remark that I dislike the method of memorizing stuff as it defeats the purpose of education - ie learning new things. Instead it is just a game of remembering facts on the day regardless of what they mean, and forgetting them as soon as the examiner says "please finish".

Finally, calling me pompous on the basis of one post is at best sad, and if you read my posts on the politics board (where incidentally you would have received an infraction for personally insulting me) you will realize that I am very willing to take on other peoples opinions, which is lot more than could be said for some boards.ie members.

Sorry I took the jam out of your doughnut there buddy.

My remark was simply in reference to your attack on those who learn things off instead of "using their brains". If they do that and get ahead in life..then who are you to judge??

turgon wrote: »

A hatred of the fact that a lot of people (like the leprechaun in the Examiner) that do really good in the Leaving Cert arent normally overly bright.

A hatred eh? OK, not pompous, just bitter.

turgon wrote: »

go to these fancy collages and soak up study techniques

Oh, and I believe jealousy still stands.^

The core of my point can really be summed up in the apt quote of:

Decerto wrote: »

Dont hate the player hate the game

P.S. I'm very impressed by your rebuttle, so many big words!:pac:

Resi12

turgon wrote: »

I was reading the Examiner and the exam diarist said "Maths is tough cause you cant learn off stuff like other exams".

Delighted. I took a real hard look at her ginger infused face, and just thought "oh ya girl, you cant handle the pressure of having to know, of having to be knowledgeable. Your usual tactics of memorizing wont work here biatch."

The over extremest nature of my thoughts stem for two reasons. One a love of maths, only increased by the fact that memoro-girls like herself wont beat me based only on their ability to remember.

Secondly a hatred of the fact that a lot of people (like the leprechaun in the Examiner) that do really good in the Leaving Cert arent normally overly bright, they just go to these fancy collages and soak up study techniques, where learning how to memorize is more important than learning the information itself. Where the subject doesnt matter, only how many points can be harvested thereof. What a lovely word to finish on.

Oh god so much jealousy and hate. Calm down i know the Leavin can make you nasty but really i think wishin someone never gettin there course is a horrible thing i wish noone would ever think that of me!

hippety-pippety

i do HL maths & its easy to get a bit snobby about people doing OL, but I seriously considered dropping down just because of the huge amount of time you have to spend practising questions, just to make sure you grasp it. i know a lot of time is spent on every subject bt i dont think anyone will deny that HL maths takes the most practise.
memorising things really works sometimes, and often even if you do understand it, you have to learn it off.. so its a bit of both in most subjects.
its not black & white like the clever people dont have to do any work, the dumbos learn everything off. the snobbery towards OL is ridiculous, practically the best in my HL maths class dropped down after the mock because of the amount of work & time it was taking up.

KnifeWRENCH

fivetwenty wrote: »

I'm going to get slated for this because I'm sure most of you did - but I dislike people who take grinds,

Why do you assume most people have had grinds? I never had grinds because I didn't need them but if I did, I would have had no hesitation in getting them. Not gettting grinds because you're too proud is extremely stupid.
No shame whatsoever in getting grinds.

fivetwenty wrote:

I mean I worked myself, I didn't even need schooling anymore so took the final few months off.

Well aren't you just fantastic, I'm sure everyone here wishes that they were you :rolleyes:

fivetwenty wrote:

Someone with grinds may have been drilled to a tee without doing the work for themselves....

Bollox. People get grinds because they are having difficulty with a subject and want to get better at it. This involves a lot of work.
You seem to think that Grinds work like a magic pill that you just swallow and automatically know everything without doing any work. An extremely ignorant viewpoint.

fivetwenty wrote:

....whereas I'll take an extra sense of pride come August.

Cue rapturous applause from everyone. :rolleyes:

fivetwenty wrote:

I'm talking about these Saturday school people, you make me sick, a very depressing bunch that only increases the LC's "scary" reputation - these last few days have been so calm I'm now indifferent to it.

Personally I don't think Saturday Schools and private education are necessary. They don't guarantee a better Leaving Cert and there are plenty of good Public schools out there with some very dedicated teachers (my school was rough but the teachers were fantastic to us for Leaving Cert)

With that said, a student in a private school/Saturday school still won't get a good Leaving Cert if they don't work at it. Daddy can pay for education but he can't pay for 500+ points - that achievement is of the student alone. Is a student in a private school any less deserving of their points than a student in a public/non fee paying school? Absolutely not.

And you say these people "make you sick"? Lol @ the jealousy and ignorance you have displayed through that entire post.

BMH

turgon wrote: »

Pompous - meanwhile, I am on the side of the fence that doesn't learn off stuff, but gets by by using my brain a bit. I was just making a remark that I dislike the method of memorizing stuff as it defeats the purpose of education - ie learning new things. Instead it is just a game of remembering facts on the day regardless of what they mean, and forgetting them as soon as the examiner says "please finish".

Finally, calling me pompous on the basis of one post is at best sad, and if you read my posts on the politics board (where incidentally you would have received an infraction for personally insulting me) you will realize that I am very willing to take on other peoples opinions, which is lot more than could be said for some boards.ie members.

Pompous? Me? Hmm, perhaps should should say that to my face...on the politics boards...

JC 2K3

The difference between people who are good at maths and those who are good at other areas is that those who are good at maths are usually as good at the other areas too.

BJC wrote: »

My remark was simply in reference to your attack on those who learn things off instead of "using their brains". If they do that and get ahead in life..then who are you to judge??

Someone with brains. And specifically directed at you, someone who didn't cheat in their LC and has a sense of pride and nobility, which is more valuable than any sum of money or advancement in life.

turgon

BMH wrote: »

Pompous? Me? Hmm, perhaps should should say that to my face...on the politics boards...

I never called anyone pompous, let alone you. Read the post again, I wasn't even addressing you. Plus your politics joke is true. I have received infractions for calling people hypocritical, the relative lack of modding on education board is surprising.

Now I do realize what I said at the start was over the top, I was in a bitchy mood, and I will take back most of it, especially about mocking her for having "red hair" and calling her a leprechaun. Totally out of line. I have nothing against people with red hair, and saying that was wrong. Sorry.



However I still think that rote learning is bad. People are saying that the effort that goes into rote learning makes the person deserving of a good result. However rote learning is sometimes unrelated to the subject, with people just learning for the sake of regurgitating in the exam, and I don't think it deserves excessive praise. I could go out and run a marathon, sure it would be tough, but I wouldn't demand a good leaving cert as a reward. I know the systems wrong. Its just a pity it is abused so thoroughly.

Now this idea that i'm jealous is still being tossed around. Let me reassure all of you that I am not jealous of other people in general, and especially when it comes to exams.

KnifeWRENCH

turgon wrote: »

the relative lack of modding on education board is surprising.

Mods probably make exceptions because of all the stress and teenage hormones.

turgon wrote:

Now I do realize what I said at the start was over the top, I was in a bitchy mood, and I will take back most of it, especially about mocking her for having "red hair" and calling her a leprechaun. Totally out of line. I have nothing against people with red hair, and saying that was wrong. Sorry.

Well fair play for admitting that!

turgon wrote:

However I still think that rote learning is bad. People are saying that the effort that goes into rote learning makes the person deserving of a good result. However rote learning is sometimes unrelated to the subject, with people just learning for the sake of regurgitating in the exam, and I don't think it deserves excessive praise. I could go out and run a marathon, sure it would be tough, but I wouldn't demand a good leaving cert as a reward. I know the systems wrong. Its just a pity it is abused so thoroughly.

Just the way the system works. If I hadn't relied on rote learning for Irish and used my natural linguistic skills (or lack of!), I probably would have gotten a much lower result, so it would have been extremely stupid of me to do that.
Learning by rote does take an awful lot of time and effort, and I would say that it's a normal part of studying.
If you put in the effort you should get the points. In my opinion it's as simple as that.

Pyr0

Well if someone is just unable to grasp maths in the same way you can, how else are they going to pass the exam without learning off the stuff question by question ? I see nothing wrong with learning off whole essays in order to pass an exam, some people just have a natural ability in one or more subjects than others, while some people learn off essays and formulas in order to pass a subject. If they earn their 450 points to get into a college by sitting down and learning off the work then fair play to them.

BMH

turgon wrote: »

I never called anyone pompous, let alone you. Read the post again, I wasn't even addressing you.

I was doing one of my hilarious impersonations...

turgon

Oh right. I am sure it was funny when you were typing it.

The Apology

I realize that the original post is over extreme, and I apologize to anyone who is or has been insulted by my comments. Please understand that they were not meant as malicious but were just my form of thinking on a particularly moody day. Sorry.

I still think that rote learning is a joke though.

carlowboy

Posting as someone who doesn't learn things off by rote and doing a maths based college course...there's a lot of pompous twats on this thread who look down their noses at people who work hard and deserve their grades.

i hate boards

the leaving cert is a test of knowledge, not intelligence. how "bright" (lol btw) people are is irrelevant. all that matters is how well people know the contents of the syllabus.

if memorising notes is the easiest way for someone to do this, then that's beautiful. :cool:

Timans

turgon wrote: »

Oh right. I am sure it was funny when you were typing it.

The Apology

I realize that the original post is over extreme, and I apologize to anyone who is or has been insulted by my comments. Please understand that they were not meant as malicious but were just my form of thinking on a particularly moody day. Sorry.

I still think that rote learning is a joke though.

You seem to have ''rote learned'' your spelling from Americans..

Sorry, couldn't resit.

eoin2nc

Just because you cant handle HL Maths dont get angry with the OP


Hate the game, not the player!

JC 2K3

Fúck that. I'll hate as many players as I like, thank you very much.

carlowboy

eoin2nc wrote: »

Just because you cant handle HL Maths dont get angry with the OP


Hate the game, not the player!

Wow...if I could be arsed I'd report you. Get off your pedestal. I did HL maths yet I'm clearly "hating the player".

eoin2nc

Woops some peoples sarcasim radars are a bit off. It was a joke




Actually I like being on my pedestal

KnifeWRENCH

eoin2nc wrote: »

Ye i agree with you. There is a couple of people in my school who are farily slow, but they just learn everything off by heart and then get a good LC. This doesnt prove that they are intelligent, just that they dont have a social life

Wow, you're attitude is even worse than the OP's.
If these people are "fairly slow" (not a nice of putting it btw) do you think they should just sit back and fail the Leaving Cert because you disagree with their study methods? :rolleyes:
I'd rather see a hard working, less intelligent student succeed than a student who's intelligent but lazy.

eoin2nc wrote:

They also do OL maths

So they are less intelligent and less worthy of a college education than you?What an ignorant, snobby comment. I'd love to see you thrown off your high horse.
A lot of very intelligent people do find maths extremely difficult, no matter how hard they work at it. It's better for them to drop down and get a good result at pass than to keep going, scrape a D3 and have their other subjects suffer in the process.

eoin2nc wrote:

Just because you cant handle HL Maths dont get angry with the OP

Who was that directed that?

EDIT: just read that post above. You fail at sarcasm.

eoin2nc

square_igloo wrote: »

Wow, you're attitude is even worse than the OP's.
If these people are "fairly slow" (not a nice of putting it btw) do you think they should just sit back and fail the Leaving Cert because you disagree with their study methods? :rolleyes:
I'd rather see a hard working, less intelligent student succeed than a student who's intelligent but lazy.


So they are less intelligent and less worthy of a college education than you?What an ignorant, snobby comment. I'd love to see you thrown off your high horse.
A lot of very intelligent people do find maths extremely difficult, no matter how hard they work at it. It's better for them to drop down and get a good result at pass than to keep going, scrape a D3 and have their other subjects suffer in the process.



Who was that directed that?

EDIT: just read that post above. You fail at sarcasm.

Yes but I dont fail at maths:D Get it?


OK what I was trying to say came out wrong, some people need to realx, the PC brigade is out in force


I didnt mean that people who work hard dont deserve to do well, they do and they will do well.


I should probably stop digging myself into a hole, but Im sure there are people here who get what Im trying to say

Cokehead Mother

Timans wrote: »

You seem to have ''rote learned'' your spelling from Americans..

Sorry, couldn't resit.

"realize", "apologize" etc. aren't americanisms...

Now someone point out something wrong with my post!

turgon

Timans wrote: »

You seem to have ''rote learned'' your spelling from Americans..

I have a spell checker on Mozilla Firefox that uses an American dictionary. I think as long as you can easily understand me, the dialect of my spelling don't matter.

I have no problem with people spending loads of time studying to up the grades - I had to do a good bit on English myself. I'm just saying that learning by memory, and not by content, is not actually being good at your subject, its just being good at memorizing. And there are very few subjects which reward good engagement with the subject including Maths and half the time Tech Graph.

As regards "leaving cert is a test of knowledge, not intelligence". How is going into an exam and regurgitating a million facts and definitions from memory knowledge???

irishbucsfan

eoin2nc wrote: »

Yes but I dont fail at maths:D Get it?

turgon

eoin2nc wrote: »

I should probably stop digging myself into a hole, but Im sure there are people here who get what Im trying to say

Yes I do, but everyone else is just writing us off as elitists and pompous.

KnifeWRENCH

eoin2nc wrote: »

Yes but I dont fail at maths:D Get it?

:rolleyes: Well good for you.

eoin2nc wrote:

OK what I was trying to say came out wrong, some people need to realx, the PC brigade is out in force

WTF does PC have anything to do with it? I don't like people treating others who learn by rote (or do OL subjects) like retards, and that's what you seem to be doing.

eoin2nc wrote:

I didnt mean that people who work hard dont deserve to do well, they do and they will do well.

I should probably stop digging myself into a hole, but Im sure there are people here who get what Im trying to say

Again, you don't seem to think that rote learning is hard work. Trust me, it is.
Is it an ideal way of doing things? No. But that's how the system works.

Every student has to study in whatever way they feel will benefit them most. And if that happens to involve rote learning, then I fail to see what the problem is.

BMH

turgon wrote: »

As regards "leaving cert is a test of knowledge, not intelligence". How is going into an exam and regurgitating a million facts and definitions from memory knowledge???

Taking from wikipedia: "Knowledge is defined (Oxford English Dictionary) variously as (i) expertise, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject, (ii) what is known in a particular field or in total; facts and information or (iii) awareness or familiarity gained by experience of a fact or situation."

(ii) and (iii) seems to fit the bill perfectly.
You really should have stopped after the apology.

irishbucsfan

square_igloo wrote: »

:rolleyes: Well good for you.



WTF does PC have anything to do with it? I don't like people treating others who learn by rote (or do OL subjects) like retards, and that's what you seem to be doing.

Again, you don't seem to think that rote learning is hard work. Trust me, it is.
Is it an ideal way of doing things? No. But that's how the system works.

Every student has to study in whatever way they feel will benefit them most. And if that happens to involve rote learning, then I fail to see what the problem is.

Two people are told to build a wall, and are given all the tools and materials. Neither have any experience in construction.

The first is one of the "rote learners." He doesn't possess any amazing natural logic or abilities, so he goes home for the night and looks everything up, and learns the techniques off by heart. He comes back the next day and builds the wall.

The second is Eoin up there, he's a bright lad and has a natural affinity for problem solving and the like. He spends an hour looking at the materials and equipment and works out the correct way to build the wall on his own. His abilities help him to build the wall to a perfectly similar way to the first builder.

Both of them built the wall (granted the first guy was a day late, but we'll ignore that). So in the end it all comes out in the wash. I think what Eoin is really trying to say is that the people who both possess the natural abilities and the work ethic deserve to be regarded in a higher light than those who just possess the work ethic. And thats fair enough.

turgon

BMH wrote: »

Taking from wikipedia: "Knowledge is defined (Oxford English Dictionary) variously as (i) expertise, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject, (ii) what is known in a particular field or in total; facts and information or (iii) awareness or familiarity gained by experience of a fact or situation."

(ii) and (iii) seems to fit the bill perfectly.
You really should have stopped after the apology.

No, you should have stopped when called upon to actually understand English.

"awareness or familiarity gained by experience of a fact or situation"
Oh yes, because the people who rote learn actually remember the stuff after the exam. Oh wait no they dont. Knowing the stuff does not imply familiarity.

"what is known in a particular field or in total; facts and information"
Once again, I say that their "knowledge" is temporary - they will forget it afterwards. Whereas if you learn through understanding it sticks.