Bad time to think this??

TinyExplosions

But based on the soreness of my back tomorrow, I feel I may be stretched too much on the bike. Looking at it, the handlebar stem is angled slightly down, would flipping this around so that it's angled up, raising the bars maybe 1/4 to 1/2 an inch be beneficial, or does my back hurt cos 200k on a bike will hurt everyones back

sy

Hi Tiny. I would say it was just the distance and the effort. You can flip the stem around and it will give you a little less reach. Or maybe you might have had a couple of pints too many last night!!:D By the way well done on your first W200.

kenmc

as sy said. bear in mind you've only had that bike around 5 or 6 weeks, and this is the first time you've done over 130 km or so - you're lucky if you got more than 500km in total before the day. My back is sore too today, and I have probably got around 1500-2000km on my bike prior to yday.

Chips Lovell

Like the other guys said, you haven't had the bike long and haven't clocked up that much mileage yet. It depends on how sore you are, but if it isn't that bad, I'd adopt the wait and see approach. If it keeps coming back, then I'd have it looked at. For what it's worth, when I first started on a road bike my neck would kill me on long rides, but I slowly got used to it.

blorg

Difficult to say. It could certainly help, yes. Do you know what your drop from saddle to bars is at the moment? (Easiest way to measure is to line the bike up against a wall and make a mark with a pencil then turn it around and do the same for the bars- measure the distance between the marks.) Those Focuses are reasonably "agressive" in their geometry.

It's a common topic of discussion that extreme aero drops came in around the 1980s and that pro riders used to ride bikes with far less drop from saddle to the bars.

I had severe lower back pain when I got my first road bike, to the extent that I chucked it in for a couple of years and went back to a hybrid. That fit and I merged back into drops at first by converting the hybrid. All was OK since, so it could be fit.

You will not necessarily have back aches after such a spin. My legs are tired from yesterday certainly but my back could have been lying on the beach for all it knows. Apart from fit it could also just be a matter of getting used to the position over long distances, developing flexibility that you haven't needed before. Were you in the drops much yesterday?

Another thing to note- a shorter drop and you will probably use the drops more, with consequent overall aero benefit. I know I certainly find them a lot more comfortable and use them more on my tourer (part of this is the shape of the bars but there is also around 2cm less of a drop on the tourer.) I'm looking to change the bars on my road bike at the moment but will likely flip the stem while I'm at it myself.

tunney

TinyExplosions wrote: »

But based on the soreness of my back tomorrow, I feel I may be stretched too much on the bike. Looking at it, the handlebar stem is angled slightly down, would flipping this around so that it's angled up, raising the bars maybe 1/4 to 1/2 an inch be beneficial, or does my back hurt cos 200k on a bike will hurt everyones back

Emmm 200k won't hurt everyones back at all at all.

It could be a result of poor core strength or poor overal fitness or bad bike fit.

TinyExplosions

tunney wrote: »

Emmm 200k won't hurt everyones back at all at all.

It could be a result of poor core strength or poor overal fitness or bad bike fit.

That's sorta what I thought!

Cheers for all the replies, and I'm measured the distance from the top of my saddle to the bars is a hair over 4" (measured by putting a pencil on my saddle and marking the wall (don't tell the missus!), and doing the same on the bars... that seems a lot, but then I'm no expert!

I did spend the majority of time in the drops, it's where I tend to be most comfortable.

As for the pain, it made the last 50 or so pretty miserable, and I'd class it as bloody sore, but on the flip side it didn't stop me from finishing...

blorg

4" is over 10cm which is a pretty severe drop, especially if you are relatively new to cycling/drops. My road bike is 8cm (which I am considering reducing!) and my tourer (which is very comfortable) 6cm.

kincsem

My handlebars are 1" to 1 1/4" lower than the saddle. No back problem today, although my bike is a custom fit titanium.

TinyExplosions

Maybe time to raise 'em a lil so

Vélo

Are these measurements from the bottom of the handlebars?

cantalach

tunney wrote: »

Emmm 200k won't hurt everyones back at all at all.

It could be a result of poor core strength or poor overal fitness or bad bike fit.

I'm not sure I'd agree. I've done a lot of Pilates over the last 8-9 months and my core is now immeasurably stronger. I've also had a professional bike fit done within the last few months. Both have made a huge difference to me. I can now do our hilly weekday training spins (up to 70-80 km) without any discomfort at all. And within the last month I've done numerous weekend spins in the 100-160 km range over rolling terrain with very little back soreness on the bike and none shortly afterwards. W200 is a different beast however and 24 hours later, my back is still quite sore. An event like that takes most of us well out of our riding comfort zones, making at least some back pain almost inevitable.

TinyExplosions

Aquinas73 wrote: »

Are these measurements from the bottom of the handlebars?

No, the measurement was made taking a pencil and resting it on top of the saddle, and then resting the pencil on the top of the handlebars.

I flipped it over, and it's raised it by 1/4", which seems a lil pointless... guess I'll just live with the back pain

blorg

Aquinas73- I'm basing my own 8 and 6cm on the standard way to measure which is top of the saddle to top of the bars.

cantalach- I think tunney is just making the point that back pain is not a given, for everyone, even on long cycles. Some people will not get it. I have experienced it before but don't get it any more. I didn't get it yesterday, on the bike or after. Comfort was absolutely fine. Didn't even feel like I had to stretch much and was only out of the saddle once or twice (thank you triple, thank you Brooks.)

Legs were tired but I think _that's_ a given over 200km.

Back pain does point to possible fit issues and there are things you can do to attempt to reduce the incidence. But at the same time, if it is your first 200km cycle, then, sure, you might just need to do more long distance (there's the Sean Kelly in August if you are going to be away on 5 July!)

blorg

TinyExplosions wrote: »

I flipped it over, and it's raised it by 1/4", which seems a lil pointless... guess I'll just live with the back pain

You can get a stem with a steeper angle.

Question though- have you ever got this sort of back pain on previous cycles (you did 135km last weekend I think?) As if not, it could well point to just being the distance and getting used to. If you got it on the 135km I would think more likely it could be a fit issue.

uberwolf

all of the above, plus poor cycling technique can see you using your back in an up down fashion, especially as you tire

TinyExplosions

blorg wrote: »

You can get a stem with a steeper angle.

Question though- have you ever got this sort of back pain on previous cycles (you did 135km last weekend I think?) As if not, it could well point to just being the distance and getting used to. If you got it on the 135km I would think more likely it could be a fit issue.

I had the same pain on the 135 which, combined with yesterday makes me think it could be fit.

What's the steepest angled stem you can get, looking around online it seems to be 7degrees, but it's hard to find out really.

The other option I've seen is this, but I don't know how suitable it'd be?

blorg

TinyExplosions wrote: »

What's the steepest angled stem you can get, looking around online it seems to be 7degrees, but it's hard to find out really.

The other option I've seen is this, but I don't know how suitable it'd be?

Not sure that would be a great choice, although could be good to get the initial fit right. Something like this might be better. You could also consider a bike fitting before you choose. Might be worth it to get a better idea rather than spending money on components.

TinyExplosions

blorg wrote: »

Not sure that would be a great choice, although could be good to get the initial fit right. Something like this might be better. You could also consider a bike fitting before you choose. Might be worth it to get a better idea rather than spending money on components.

That looks even better!

I think I'll see if Rob in Wheelworx can do a proper fitting for me, or does anyone else have any recommendations for a place to get a good fit (not cycle superstore!)

cantalach

blorg wrote: »

cantalach- I think tunney is just making the point that back pain is not a given, for everyone, even on long cycles. Some people will not get it. I have experienced it before but don't get it any more. I didn't get it yesterday, on the bike or after. Comfort was absolutely fine. Didn't even feel like I had to stretch much and was only out of the saddle once or twice (thank you triple, thank you Brooks.)

Yes, you're absolutely right. Reading it again, I misread what tunney wrote. I read it as "you shouldn't have back pain at all at all" which is not what he said. I completely agree that not everyone will have back pain and I suppose the case in point is that I was the only one of the group I rode with to do so. The point I was making is that having a strong core, adequate fitness and correct bike set up will not guarantee back pain-free bike riding. Bradley McGee can attest to that!

cantalach

TinyExplosions wrote: »

What's the steepest angled stem you can get, looking around online it seems to be 7degrees, but it's hard to find out really.

The other option I've seen is this, but I don't know how suitable it'd be?

Closer to home, have a look at the stems section on cyclesuperstore.ie and you'll see lots of options. For what it's worth, my brother put a stubby little mtb stem on his road bike and that did the job for him. It was something along the lines of this one though a little longer and steeper. It does look a bit weird though and it makes the steering much twitchier. I use the shortest Easton stem I could get which was an 80mm EA50.

zorkmundsson

i was getting horrible back pain up slieve maan, but i think that was due to my hauling myself up with my arms, neck, spine, ankles and everything in between to make it to the top of that stupid bloody mountain. calmed down all the way home, though.

cantalach

zorkmundsson wrote: »

i was getting horrible back pain up slieve maan, but i think that was due to my hauling myself up with my arms, neck, spine, ankles and everything in between to make it to the top of that stupid bloody mountain. calmed down all the way home, though.

That's funny because I was almost the complete opposite. I had no back pain at all going up Slieve Maan - I use a compact crankset and was seated the whole way up. It was on that annoying up and down section between Rathdrum and Roundwood that my back started to act up, and by the time we got to Stepaside it was completely crocked despite spending 5 minutes stopped and trying to mobilise it.

zorkmundsson

i guess the moral of the story is, then:
cycling. it's bonkers.

tunney

Cycling is fun, cycling is great.

Bike racing hurts.

Neither are bonkers.

zorkmundsson

tunney wrote: »

Cycling is fun, cycling is great.

Bike racing hurts.

Neither are bonkers.

"bonkers" is not necessarily derogative. in fact, it's prob a good thing, overall.

that said, i defy anyone to say that they did not have a, however brief, dark night of the soul somewhere up slieve maan yesterday.

TinyExplosions

zorkmundsson wrote: »

"bonkers" is not necessarily derogative. in fact, it's prob a good thing, overall.

that said, i defy anyone to say that they did not have a, however brief, dark night of the soul somewhere all the way up slieve maan yesterday.

Corrected for accuracy :cool: