Yet another Network Speed Question!

pgodkin

Good Morning,

i was asked by a friend of mine to check out something on here so if anyone could help it would be great,

Problem: This guy has a business management programe that has like 16 users on it, and the programe is really really slow!

Question: does the number of users of this programme affect the speed or is it simply a case of upgrading the network in order to speed things up?

any information u need to help u out just ask!!


Thanks in Advance:o

Philip

allybhoy

hmm.... fairly amigious question, would need a bit more info for a proper answer, like specs of server etc, type of application being used, like is it a citrix application or RDP or DOS based , network specs etc, but just a few tips to maybe get you started.

1. Check for network utilisation on the server over a prolonged period.
2. Check speed of network, 10/100/1000 etc.
3. Ensure a proper switch is being used and not a hub.
4. Make sure all pc's have a dedicated node on the server.
5. Ensure DNS is running rather than WINS to decrease broadcasts etc.
6. Check system performance on server, could just be a case of needing more RAM etc.
7. Check with the support team for the application to see if there is anything they can do to speed it up, eg:- perform a degraf\archive or compress old data files.

seamus

allybhoy wrote: »

6. Check system performance on server, could just be a case of needing more RAM etc.
7. Check with the support team for the application to see if there is anything they can do to speed it up, eg:- perform a degraf\archive or compress old data files.

These would be my first two ports of call.

If it's just this application that's slow, but everything else seems reasonably OK, then it's likely that it's just a performance problem on the server.

The cause of this depends on lots of things - the specs of the server, what database (if any) the software is using, etc etc.

As allybhoy says, it's a very ambiguous question, on a par with, "My car isn't going as fast as it should, what's wrong with it?".

pgodkin

Thanks for the replys lads keep them coming,

i was taking to the guy to get more information on his system and what he can tell me is using is Linksys SR2024 24 port 10/100/1000 gigabit switch & under Network adaptors there is Compaq NC3163 Fast Ethernet NBC & Netgear GA3021 Gigabit Adapter

Does that help? i know the op is like asking how long is a piece of string but as im looking over it i can redefine the problem

Thanks lads

Philip

seamus

Assuming that the network cabling is up to scratch and the switch is configured correctly, then it's unlikely there's a network issue.

Does he open files from a network server, or otherwise copy files across the network? If so, does that seem to work at a fairly decent speed? If your answers are "yes", then rule out the network as a problem

What's the name of the programme that he's using? How old is the server that it's running on?

allybhoy

No not really tbh, if you want to find out the speed of the network, check at the network connection status at the server and the clients, or alternatively look at the switch as most switches will have different colours for different speeds, green for 100 yellow for 10 etc. But as Seamus says its very rare for a network to run at even half utilisation unless one of the pc's (or server) is infected with a virus. Also ask your friend if he has just noticed that the network has been getting gradually slower over the last few years or if its slowed up all of a sudden. If its a gradual decrease in performance than I would just concentrate on the server, get him to check how much RAM is available, page file size and available disk space. Also as Seamus suggested find out the name of the app that he's running and see if he has support for it. Get them to dial in remotely and diagnose the problem with their program, rather than you having to second guess what the issue is.

FusionNet

Firstly I'd get the cabling tested. Id put money on it that it is not certified. You could be getting cross talk issues or god knows what. If the networks not certified its not a computer network. This will cost approx 300-400 euro to get it tested but there is no point trying new hardware or upgrading servers if the cabling is ****e. After this if the network is perfect then that leaves you the server, the switch and the application to trouble shoot.

Secondly Ive had a weird issue with a gigabit network recently. New gigabit 10/100/1000 switches were installed and the network crawled. The server had a gig card and still crawled. I went in, trouble shotted the network, replaced the switch with a 10/100 and it sorted the problem. We are testing a certifying the cable next as I didnt install it so there is no cert for it.

rmacm

FusionNet wrote: »

If the networks not certified its not a computer network.

I haven't got any certification for my home network but by a number of definitions of a computer network that I've seen I've still got a network of computers albeit not certified, however I do recognise the need for cabling certification. Apologies for being pedantic but meh that's how I roll.

OP, as has been pointed out by others if your friend is getting decent performance out of the network in other cases you could probably rule it out as the bottle neck. Check how the server is performing when the application starts to slow down.

allybhoy

Yep agree 100% with rmacm, Ive worked on some huge ISP networks, and am currently working in for one of the major multinationals and getting our network "certified" would never even be mentioned. Like do you think IBM\Microsoft\Google\Symantec get certs every time they expand their network? No, does that mean by your definition that they dont have a network? No

At the end of the day what is a certification? You could get it certified one day and the next somebody could come along and put in a loop etc, what use is your "cert" then. Plus most modern networks are so complex and are forever being expanded that the cert would become outdated 3days later. Thats why they hire administrators\ network engineers.

FusionNet

Look guys if you call it a Catagory 5e or a catagory 6 network on paper you must back it up with a cert to say it has been tested to these standards. I dont really care what IBM etc do its what I and my company do that sets up apart from the rest. From my experience most large companies with large IT systems would have their own fluke, lantec or what ever brand of certification device. If you do not certify a network you can not guarantee the network performance. Sure its prob work fine but as an installer if I say its a catagory 5e computer network I must produce the cert to say all points have been passed to that standard. If I put in a network, and call it cat5e and do not provide the cert I cannot guarantee 100MB plus transmission. If then for example a company has spent 100,000 euro on a network and it doesnt perform do you really think when it comes to being sued I can use the excuse "networks are so complex and are forever being expanded that the cert would become outdated 3days later"

And to answer your question yes most companies certify every single point, it takes 40 seconds to certify, its not exactly rocket science, plug in the fluke cable aniliyser press the button, wait, beep, certified..

So Im sorry I have to completley diisagree with you on that point. As an Installer a cert proves Ive done my job right and that the network will perform to the standards set out by ANSI/TIA-568-B. If you have hardware and computers on a network giving fault and you spent hours and even days trouble shooting the hardware and found it was bad cabling you'd be furious.

There are a lot of really really bad network engineers and cheap chinese network materials out there, dont presume because it looks ok or cause the guy had a krone tool that it was done right.

As for a network ask for the cert. After all that is why your paying him 50plus an hour....

rmacm

Tomorrow when I'm not drunk I'll reply.....curse women and curse Wednesday nights.

liamo

pgodkin wrote: »

the programe is really really slow!

Was there a point when the application used to perform better? All the network optimising in the world can only go so far if you've got a badly written application to begin with.

pgodkin wrote: »

Question: does the number of users of this programme affect the speed or is it simply a case of upgrading the network in order to speed things up?

I think your friend holds the answer to the first part of your question.
Does the number of users affect the speed? That is, how does the application perform with only one user? With 2 users? With 5, 10, etc?

Regards,

Liam

rmacm

FusionNet wrote: »

Look guys if you call it a Catagory 5e or a catagory 6 network on paper you must back it up with a cert to say it has been tested to these standards. I dont really care what IBM etc do its what I and my company do that sets up apart from the rest. From my experience most large companies with large IT systems would have their own fluke, lantec or what ever brand of certification device. If you do not certify a network you can not guarantee the network performance. Sure its prob work fine but as an installer if I say its a catagory 5e computer network I must produce the cert to say all points have been passed to that standard. If I put in a network, and call it cat5e and do not provide the cert I cannot guarantee 100MB plus transmission. If then for example a company has spent 100,000 euro on a network and it doesnt perform do you really think when it comes to being sued I can use the excuse "networks are so complex and are forever being expanded that the cert would become outdated 3days later"

And to answer your question yes most companies certify every single point, it takes 40 seconds to certify, its not exactly rocket science, plug in the fluke cable aniliyser press the button, wait, beep, certified..

So Im sorry I have to completley diisagree with you on that point. As an Installer a cert proves Ive done my job right and that the network will perform to the standards set out by ANSI/TIA-568-B. If you have hardware and computers on a network giving fault and you spent hours and even days trouble shooting the hardware and found it was bad cabling you'd be furious.

There are a lot of really really bad network engineers and cheap chinese network materials out there, dont presume because it looks ok or cause the guy had a krone tool that it was done right.

As for a network ask for the cert. After all that is why your paying him 50plus an hour....

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. I agree with what you've said above but that wasn't what I was getting at in my post. And now we're dragging the thread off topic....oh well.

FusionNet

rmacm wrote: »

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. I agree with what you've said above but that wasn't what I was getting at in my post. And now we're dragging the thread off topic....oh well.

Isn't that what forums are for? I think the original poster has enough info or his friend to last him for weeks.. So do tell how have I missed the point Im curious? I thought I got ur points right?

rmacm

FusionNet wrote: »

If the networks not certified its not a computer network.

This was the point I wanted to pick up on.

FusionNet wrote: »

Isn't that what forums are for? I think the original poster has enough info or his friend to last him for weeks.. So do tell how have I missed the point Im curious? I thought I got ur points right?

Of course discussion is more than welcome. My point was that despite not having certification of my home network, it's still a computer network by most of the definitions of a computer network that I've seen. Fair enough if you're in the business of installing networks and you need to guarantee that the network is capable of running at certain speeds then go ahead and certify it.

Anyway I'm going to stop now because I'm drunk again......this is getting to be a cliche at this stage thankfully I've managed to keep my drunk posting to the UL forum and saved Nets & Comms from it so far.

FusionNet

Boards is a bas place to be after a few beers, the spelling goes to pot!!!

I do get what you mean if two computers are conncted via cable yes indeed it is a computer network but it cant be called a catagory 5e computer network! Anyways I think we're on the same page now.

You have to understand too RMACM that every day I walk into business in Ireland where you'd swear a monkey wired up. There is really really poor work being done and people dont give a..... Im just sick of it.

Anyways thats my battle to fights.. be careful out there..

seamus

FusionNet wrote: »

You have to understand too RMACM that every day I walk into business in Ireland where you'd swear a monkey wired up. There is really really poor work being done and people dont give a..... Im just sick of it.

Hey, if there were less monkeys, you'd be earning less cash

allybhoy

I know what you are trying to say Fusion, but what I am saying is nearly all large\complex networks are constantly growing\changing. For example, the initial cabling in our data centres would have been done by Mercury, now they would have certified and tested every Fibre and Ethernet point in our network (over 4000) when it was installed. However at the end of the day if we have an issue with a port or section of cabling, we dont go back through the paperwork to see the ratings for that individual port, we simply replace the cable, test it again, if it doesnt work we repair it, Simple as. Also all CAT5 cables we purchase have been pre approved to industry standards, and we dont manufacture any CAT5 cables on site.

FusionNet

Also all CAT5 cables we purchase have been pre approved to industry standards, and we dont manufacture any CAT5 cables on site.[/QUOTE]

Good call on that, I dont understand why people make there own cables, it takes ages and is a right pain. Patch cables are only a couple of euro!!

And ya I get you about the large networks but Id imagine anyone with over 4000 points would prob own their own fluke. Its much cheaper in the long run and as you say if you have a problem on a point your tester will tell you if its damaged or your getting noise or whatever.

And as for the previous comment, yes bad wiring does make me a few quid alright but I just hate to see bad workmanship, it brings us all down.