Roundabouts, education needed

Stealdo

Zube wrote: »

Read it yourself, you are just wrong:

"when taking the first exit, going straight ahead or taking later exits"
"Signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want."
"Leaving by a later exit"

etc.

Zube - only the first of these relates to what I said so ignoring the other two and putting your quote into context with the rest of the sentence - it says "Unless road signs or road markings indicate otherwise, follow the steps below, when taking the first exit, going straight ahead or taking later exits off a roundabout."

The "steps below" then go on to describe the instructions for
"Making a left turn"
"Going straight ahead"
and
"Taking any later exits"

If your point is that they are confusing then yeah - switching between the two types of language can be confusing for some people. My point was simply that there are instructions provided for the three scenarios above - not for taking the first, second and third exits as was being suggested by most people posting.

Zube

Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »

Thanks Stealdo, it doesn't state anything about clock rules,

It makes the distinction between "left", "straight ahead" and "any later exit", which is effectively the same as the 12 o'clock rule.

neither does it state that you cannot use the right lane to go straight on at a dual-carriageway entry/exit system.

It shows that route in red on a diagram, and says:

You may follow the course shown in the illustration by the broken red line in situations where:

• the left-hand lane is only for turning left or is blocked or closed, or
• when directed by a Garda.

Zube

Stealdo wrote: »

My point was simply that there are instructions provided for the three scenarios above - not for taking the first, second and third exits as was being suggested by most people posting.

True, but how many roundabouts are simple crossroads shapes as described in the ROR? What if there are two, three, five or six exits instead of four? Often the second exit is a left turn (i.e, it's before the straight - ahead), but it should be treated as a second exit, not a left-turn.

My point is only that the real-world application of the rules is not simple. Slig originally said:

Its very clearly defined in the rules of the road booklet but everybody seems to have their own take on it and get very p1ssy if you try to tell them otherwise, in particular taking the second exit from a roundabout.

I don't agree, since the ROR booklet covers only the simplest of roundabouts, it's been updated at least twice since I learnt the rules to say different things, and even experienced drivers who read the booklet can disagree about what it means in practice.

I mean, ffs, what does this mean: When there are more than three lanes at the entrance to a roundabout, use the most appropriate lane on approach and through it.

That's suposed to be a rule?

Marcus.Aurelius

Zube wrote: »

It shows that route in red on a diagram, and says:

You may follow the course shown in the illustration by the broken red line in situations where:

• the left-hand lane is only for turning left or is blocked or closed, or
• when directed by a Garda.

So all the roundabouts marked otherwise are wrong??

ROTR is an interpretation of law and does not reflect any type of sound driving style. Go to an advanced driving course and you have to forget most of what you were taught previously. It's utter rubbish

Zube

Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »

It's utter rubbish

This is precisely why Slig finds that people don't take kindly to being told they don't know how to use roundabouts.

chump

ignoring if roundabout is controlled with lights or provides particular guidance about what lane to be in...


I think the confusion boils down to the 12 o'clock 'guidance'
But the rules of the road refer to "Going straight ahead" when referring to the 2nd exit.
Therefore what should you do if the 2nd exit is after 12oclock?
Does that depend on how many 'other' exits there are?

I usually stay left lane if taking 1st or second exit, even if the second exit is after 12 o'clock.

I'm probably wrong! :pac:

Slig

chump wrote: »

ignoring if roundabout is controlled with lights or provides particular guidance about what lane to be in...


I think the confusion boils down to the 12 o'clock 'guidance'
But the rules of the road refer to "Going straight ahead" when referring to the 2nd exit.
Therefore what should you do if the 2nd exit is after 12oclock?
Does that depend on how many 'other' exits there are?

I usually stay left lane if taking 1st or second exit, even if the second exit is after 12 o'clock.

I'm probably wrong! :pac:

I'm with Chump:D

Stealdo

Zube wrote: »

My point is only that the real-world application of the rules is not simple.

I mean, ffs, what does this mean: When there are more than three lanes at the entrance to a roundabout, use the most appropriate lane on approach and through it.

Fair enough - the more I read here the more I'm thinking that the earlier interpretation quoted above of "use common sense" might be the best description. It seems that the variations of roundabouts are so many that there is no way to give instuctions that will apply to all.

In that vein I always thought that the ROTR book was a guide to traffic law for the non legally minded, rather than having any basis in law themselves. i.e. I was not (am not) of the opinion that just because something is in the ROTR book that it is a law. Maybe one of the Traffic Core posters can tell us?

Hal1

chump wrote: »

ignoring if roundabout is controlled with lights or provides particular guidance about what lane to be in...


I think the confusion boils down to the 12 o'clock 'guidance'
But the rules of the road refer to "Going straight ahead" when referring to the 2nd exit.
Therefore what should you do if the 2nd exit is after 12oclock?
Does that depend on how many 'other' exits there are?

I usually stay left lane if taking 1st or second exit, even if the second exit is after 12 o'clock.

I'm probably wrong! :pac:

This was my understanding of it, but in the test I got a grade 2 fault for being in the 1st lane (left) with intention of travelling straight ahead. Imo I was in the right and I will continue to approach roundabouts this way as I think its far safer.

bman

I didn't know about the rule that if it's past 12 o'clock take the 2nd lane. Will do that from now on.

The one thing that annoys me is people taking the right lane when they are going straight through. Yesterday evening I had a lad in a van go alongside me straight through the roundabout in the right lane while I was in the left lane. He then decided to exit in the left lane! And then decided to beep me out of it!! The bloody cheek!

fitzgese

"When there are more than three lanes at the entrance to a roundabout, use the most appropriate lane on approach and through it."

So how is this supposed to work in Walkinstown exactly?

Actually maybe they aren't 3 lanes at any of the entrances to the Walkinstown roundabout, I've only been there once, but how is it supposed to work?

DanThe

What really annoys me and is dangerous....

People in the lefthand lane who proceed to go and take the third or fourth exit. All the way around in the left lane!

Very inconvenent when you are "tippin on" in the right hand lane going straight through.

jimmycrackcorm

fitzgese wrote: »

"When there are more than three lanes at the entrance to a roundabout, use the most appropriate lane on approach and through it."

So how is this supposed to work in Walkinstown exactly?

Actually maybe they aren't 3 lanes at any of the entrances to the Walkinstown roundabout, I've only been there once, but how is it supposed to work?

I was thinking of this when I started reading the thread. It's abysmal that the rotr doesn't give the common examples of two entry lanes and single exits and vice versa.

cyclopath2001

Stealdo wrote: »

In that vein I always thought that the ROTR book was a guide to traffic law for the non legally minded, rather than having any basis in law themselves. i.e. I was not (am not) of the opinion that just because something is in the ROTR book that it is a law. Maybe one of the Traffic Core posters can tell us?

You're correct on this point. It's not law in itself. It's not a legal document. It's well-intentioned and is mostly accurate, so should not be ignored unless you're quite confident you know better.

One matter to thing in mind about roundabouts is that the rules on overtaking are very relevant. That is, don't overtake on the inside except in slow moving traffic or if the vehicle to your right is stopped and turning right and, in general, don't overtake at all if to do so would cause inconvenience or endanger the safety of anyone else.

Many of the incidents I see on roundabouts are caused by bad overtaking.

Mitch Connor

fletch wrote: »

And you will get PLOWED out of it at this roundabout.
The 1st and 2nd lane are for the first exit ONLY and the 3rd lane is for all other exits.

Had a discussion on this very roundabout last night - a guy in a jeep at the front of the queue in the left lane, moved across to the middle at the last moment. (I was over on the right to go straight through to the M50 south bound) I said to my GF in the car that the guy in the jeep was clearly in the wrong lane, as there would be no reason for him to change from the left to the middle unless he thought he could go straight. She said I was wrong and that the middle lane could go left or straight. I said nope - road markings dicate left and middle lanes ONLY go left and only the right hand lane can go straight or back around. A nice little discussion followed that..... but I was right damn it!

Also, I hate that little round-about going into Dundrum, the two lane entry but one lane exit one that isn't actually big enough for two cars to use at the same time, ever.