Barry Transfer Saga, will he go to Liverpool

DarenO

Hi Mr Alan

i was looking at it from the perspective of an established top 4 PL side against a PL side that is only starting to knock on the door and asking to join the CL party. i would agree with your comments on Alonso looking at Villa as not currently meeting his football requirements but how does he view Rafa's approach to him being surplus to requirements and how many teams in this seasons CL need that midfield position filled.

Needless to say however the transfer is financed Barry will be joining your team and we'll be left with a hole to fill and as Rafa has shown his intentions in signing Barry i wouldn't be averse in Martin getting the opportunity to persuade Alonso of the bright future Villa has (in typical Villa fan fingers crossed mode now)

D

mike65

With Gerrard out for Liege part 1 and Lucas/Masch on Olympic duty Alonso will be needed until at least the first game of the Prem, so does Alonso get CL tied if he plays in 3rd round qualifier? If he does he is less sellable, that could end Barrys chances unless the pair remain on the books until January and Liverpool sell Xabi for a 'cut-price'.

Mike

Mr Alan

DarenO wrote: »

Needless to say however the transfer is financed Barry will be joining your team and we'll be left with a hole to fill and as Rafa has shown his intentions in signing Barry i wouldn't be averse in Martin getting the opportunity to persuade Alonso of the bright future Villa has (in typical Villa fan fingers crossed mode now)

I cant really see MON persuading Alonso that the future is bright at VP if he was unable to convince Barry of it.

And Rafa and the Echo have both said that the sale of Alonso is not needed to finance the Barry deal. Pennant for example is due to be sold any day now you's can have him if ye want

Karmafaerie

The only way I can possibly see Alonso going to Villa, is if they put a release clause in the contract.
Something along the lines of, if Villa don't qualify for the CL next season, he can leave for a cut down price.

Just can't see it happening though.

Boggles

Will be a good indication if Alonso plays in that qualifier wether he is going or not.

The problem is no one is banging down Liverpools door for him, the whole deal is gone stagnent because Liverpool can't shift a player that doesn't seem to want to be there and they can't buy a player that no one else wants.

A swap although very unlikey is probaly the best solution.

Melion

Boggles wrote: »

Will be a good indication if Alonso plays in that qualifier wether he is going or not.

The problem is no one is banging down Liverpools door for him, the whole deal is gone stagnent because Liverpool can't shift a player that doesn't seem to want to be there and they can't buy a player that no one else wants.

A swap although very unlikey is probaly the best solution.

Who are you talking about?

mike65

Boggles Alonso WANTS to stay

Mike.

DeadSkin

Melion wrote: »

Who are you talking about?

I think he got all confuddled writin' his post!!!

There is no way a swap deal would be done with Barry & Alonso.

Boggles

mike65 wrote: »

Boggles Alonso WANTS to stay

Mike.

I think he does Mike, but if Barry comes he is on record as saying he will have to see what happens.

Also when Rafa publicaly said he needed to up his game after the West Ham defeat last season and he dropped Alonso, I think the friendship between manager and player severely hit the rocks, something that isn't completely fixed. Bringing in another midfielder undermines Alonsos position more.

DarenO

Never suggested Alonso would finance the Barry deal but the outcome of the transfer will mean we are short a midfielder and Liverpool are looking to sell on Alonso, makes sense to me to swap and that leaves funds available for another player or players to join Liverpool given that they don't have funds readily available to meet the Barry transfer albeit with Villa's ever changing settlement requirements

mike65

Rafa does not do freindships.

Mike.

5starpool

From the guardians rumours page:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/aug/07/rumourmill.liverpoolhamburg

Liverpool striker Dirk Kuyt is the subject of a £10m offer from Hamburg. Rafa Benítez wants £16m for Kuyt, so he can put an end to the second-most mundane transfer saga of the season and sign Gareth "God, Make It Stop" Barry for £16m.

Not sure if financing the Barry deal this way is the best idea in the world, but there you go. Also, this is the second time in a couple of days that I thought I was in the general Liverpool thread, but I guess this is sort of Barry related too so I'll leave it.

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

I think he does Mike, but if Barry comes he is on record as saying he will have to see what happens.

Also when Rafa publicaly said he needed to up his game after the West Ham defeat last season and he dropped Alonso, I think the friendship between manager and player severely hit the rocks, something that isn't completely fixed. Bringing in another midfielder undermines Alonsos position more.

And I suppose Rafa coming out and saying that he wants both Xabi and Gareth was nothing.
Or him saying repeatedly that Alonso is a Liverpool player.

Rafa may have opened the door, but he sure as hell didn't shut Alonso out!!!

Boggles

Karmafaerie wrote: »

And I suppose Rafa coming out and saying that he wants both Xabi and Alonso ws nothing.
Or him saying repeatedly that Alonso ws a Liverpool player.

Rafa may have opened the door, but he sure as hell didn't shut Alonso out!!!

I never said he did, I think it is down to Alonso himself.

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

I never said he did, I think it is down to Alonso himself.

I'd say he'll stay if given the oppertunity.
If he feels pushed though, he'll go.
And I can't blame him really.

DeadSkin

Same aul' shite again, different day.

LIVERPOOL'S move for Gareth Barry was today in major doubt with Tom Hicks and George Gillett still to give the proposed deal the go-ahead.

Rafa Benitez had hoped Barry would already be a Liverpool player by now after Aston Villa gave the Reds the nod to bring the long running saga to an end last Saturday, when Martin O'Neill said he would no longer stand in the way of a deal.

But six days later the transfer is still to be done, leaving Barry in limbo and Benitez furious at the lack of progress.

LuckyLloyd

DSB wrote: »

Oh and what would be your insight onto which side has better fans?

Savman wrote: »

I assume Melion is alluding to some statistic he found somewhere about the demographic in Aston being considerably poorer than their Tottenham counterparts and therefore, in the eyes of high society, Spurs fans are just better.
It's actually fairly obvious, can't believe I only see it now.

Also I assume White Hart Lane is constructed out of stronger materials than Villa Park, hence why in the building and construction world the former is considered better.

Spurs take in much more revenue from their fans in terms of pure ticket sales than Villa do on a yearly basis. More money earned = better.

They sell out their home stadium more often than Villa do. More support = better.

So better methinks.

Villain

Mines bigger than yours .......

The league table is the only measure that counts and your only as good as your last season.

LuckyLloyd

Villain wrote: »

Mines bigger than yours .......

The league table is the only measure that counts and your only as good as your last season.

Is that a response to my above post? LOL.

The issue I was dealing with there was who has the "better" fans, Villa or Spurs. On two key measurables, they kick your ass. That has nothing to do with the relative size of our penises or where Liverpool, Villa or Spurs placed in the table last year or will this year.

The fact that Villa park is rarely sold out and is in a pretty unattractive place to live are surely contributing reasons as to why you guys never get top shelf talent on some level right?

Bounty Hunter

from the times

Gareth Barry unhappy at delay over Liverpool switch article by James Ducker


Gareth Barry would consider pulling the plug on his prospective move to Liverpool from Aston Villa if the transfer is not resolved come the start of the Barclays Premier League season in eight days' time.

Barry is eager to join Liverpool, but the England midfield player is becoming increasingly concerned about the amount of time the deal is taking, after Villa paved the way for the move last weekend, and he is not willing to wait much longer.

Rafael Benítez, the Liverpool manager, has been waiting patiently for Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr to produce the cash promised to him last week, but that has yet to materialise amid rumours that the club's American owners have run into more financial difficulties, claims that were strenuously denied yesterday.

LuckyLloyd

Villain wrote: »

Oh and Young is our best player

Oh and this is a very cute post too.

Ok then, fine. We'll say that you are about to lose your second best player.

And next season when you are losing Young to a bigger club you can claim that Carew, Laursen or Reo - Coker is your best player at that point.

Villain

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Is that a response to my above post? LOL.

The issue I was dealing with there was who has the "better" fans, Villa or Spurs. On two key measurables, they kick your ass. That has nothing to do with the relative size of our penises or where Liverpool, Villa or Spurs placed in the table last year or will this year.

The fact that Villa park is rarely sold out and is in a pretty unattractive place to live are surely contributing reasons as to why you guys never get top shelf talent on some level right?

Emm: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/attendance?league=eng.1&year=2007&&cc=5739

I think we beat you there two

LuckyLloyd

Villain wrote: »

Emm: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/attendance?league=eng.1&year=2007&&cc=5739

I think we beat you there two

They charge more per ticket than you do and make more revenue from ticket sales. They are also sold out much more often so they sell a higher percentage of available tickets than you do. Yes, we know your stadium is bigger.

Savman

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Spurs take in much more revenue from their fans in terms of pure ticket sales than Villa do on a yearly basis. More money earned = better.

They sell out their home stadium more often than Villa do. More support = better.

So better methinks.

A quick n dirty Google search says that Villa had a higher average attendance last season. Care to backup your statements there bud?

This is really pathetic.

Savman

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

They charge more per ticket than you do and make more revenue from ticket sales

Which means what exactly? The team in 11th are more expensive than a team in 6th? What does that prove, pray tell?

DSB

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Spurs take in much more revenue from their fans in terms of pure ticket sales than Villa do on a yearly basis. More money earned = better.

They sell out their home stadium more often than Villa do. More support = better.

So better methinks.

You definitely have no idea what its like to be a real fan. Quantity means nothing. By your logic Man United have the best fans in the world.

LuckyLloyd

Savman wrote: »

Which means what exactly? The team in 11th are more expensive than a team in 6th? What does that prove, pray tell?

DSB wrote: »

You definitely have no idea what its like to be a real fan. Quantity means nothing. By your logic Man United have the best fans in the world.

All real fans of all the premiership clubs may feel they give great support blah, blah.

Football is now money. And Spurs fans pump more money into their club than Villa fans do. And Utd "fans" over the world are a huge asset for their club even if they are bandwagon hoppers. Because their sheer volume ensures that Utd will always have the base to win more trophies than Villa (or Spurs). Which breeds more fans willing to spend...etc, etc. The status quo remains in place and perpetuates.

As such, given that Spurs have greater financial potential - they have greater onfield potential than Villa. Enjoy the spin in this year's UEFA though lads.

Villain

So why can't they reach that potential?

Savman

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

All real fans of all the premiership clubs may feel they give great support blah, blah.

Football is now money. And Spurs fans pump more money into their club than Villa fans do. And Utd "fans" over the world are a huge asset for their club even if they are bandwagon hoppers. Because their sheer volume ensures that Utd will always have the base to win more trophies than Villa (or Spurs). Which breeds more fans willing to spend...etc, etc. The status quo remains in place and perpetuates.

As such, given that Spurs have greater financial potential - they have greater onfield potential than Villa. Enjoy the spin in this year's UEFA though lads.

Dude, suffice to your posts are utter garbage. It has already been shown that your statement of

Spurs take in much more revenue from their fans in terms of pure ticket sales than Villa do on a yearly basis. More money earned = better.

They sell out their home stadium more often than Villa do. More support = better.

is absolute horse shit. You haven't backed anything up and yet you keep harping on about how great your midtable club are. Do yourself and your fellow fans a favour and pipe down before you embarrass yourself any further.

DSB

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

All real fans of all the premiership clubs may feel they give great support blah, blah.

Football is now money. And Spurs fans pump more money into their club than Villa fans do. And Utd "fans" over the world are a huge asset for their club even if they are bandwagon hoppers. Because their sheer volume ensures that Utd will always have the base to win more trophies than Villa (or Spurs). Which breeds more fans willing to spend...etc, etc. The status quo remains in place and perpetuates.

As such, given that Spurs have greater financial potential - they have greater onfield potential than Villa. Enjoy the spin in this year's UEFA though lads.

You should seriously get a job working for Sky. That sort of spin is pathetic, in football money may talk, but it certainly isn't the only variable which determines success. Far from it.

LuckyLloyd

Villain wrote: »

So why can't they reach that potential?

Because they keep making bad choices in the transfer market (at least they try to make big signings though!;))? Both in terms of managers and players they have gone down some questionable routes over the past decade. Though I guess Spurs fans would be able to proffer a more detailed analysis. At the end of the day, they were unlucky not to qualify for the champions league a couple of seasons ago when the squad came down with food poisoning the night before the final game of the season. And if they got in to the top four, I would imagine they would become much more difficult to dislodge.

Villain

You make your own luck, if they have won a few more games they could have afforded to get sick before the last game, soccer isn't about if but's or maybe's its about results and trying to splash cash on big players doesn't gurantee success and trying to get instant success nearly always ends up being instant failure, I mean I and a lot of others though Spurs had a squad to challenge for the top 4 last year but they never played well, Villa on the other hand had a very small squad and made now major money signings yet MON was able to get them to 6th, I think Martin Jol is a good manager but whoever is buying and selling is making mistakes.

So you can up teh ticket price and have the fans throw money at the club but doesn't mean you will be any better unless the team on the field performs, How many times in the past 5 years have Spurs finished in the top 7?

Bounty Hunter

pfft its impossible to determine better fans, more money doesent = better fans.

isnt this thread about Gareth Barry... does he play for Spurs... are they trying to sign Barry..NO

LuckyLloyd

DSB wrote: »

You should seriously get a job working for Sky. That sort of spin is pathetic, in football money may talk, but it certainly isn't the only variable which determines success. Far from it.

Huh? It's 13 years since Blackburn won the premiership.

Yes, in the international arena there has been non traditional impact through hard work and good coaching. Yes Porto won the CL. But such instances remain the exception rather than the rule - that the richest clubs have the most success.

And the instances of upsets usually rely on a miraculous on pitch synergy allied to exceptional coaching which is always going to be a combination that is difficult to find.

In the premiership (which is the most important point for Aston Villa) the four most powerful clubs off the pitch are the four most powerful on the pitch - and it has been this way now for six years. The longer it goes that way the more unbridgeable the gap will become. I'm not saying for one second that this is a good thing - the premiership is essentially over - hyped bollocks tbh, but it is the way it is.

Unless a Spurs or a Villa somehow get a Gus Hiddink or a Mourinho to coach them they will remain seated away from the head table. And Spurs will always have a better chance of attracting top talent in terms of coaching or players because of their more attractive location.

Karmafaerie

Exactly, can we get back on topic, no matter how ridiculous a topic it may be!;)

LuckyLloyd

Savman wrote: »

Dude, suffice to your posts are utter garbage. It has already been shown that your statement of

is absolute horse shit. You haven't backed anything up and yet you keep harping on about how great your midtable club are. Do yourself and your fellow fans a favour and pipe down before you embarrass yourself any further.

You didn't disprove my statement. You showed me that Villa had a higher average attendance. Not that they generate more revenue from ticket sales or sell out their stadium more often than Villa do.

DSB

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You didn't disprove my statement. You showed me that Villa had a higher average attendance. Not that they generate more revenue from ticket sales or sell out their stadium more often than Villa do.

Villa choose not to rip their fans off. Big deal.

LuckyLloyd

Villain wrote: »

You make your own luck...Villa on the other hand had a very small squad and made no major money signings yet MON was able to get them to 6th

This is a key point. You guys ran way above expectation last year and were lucky with injuries and suspensions in that they did not take a big simultaneous bite out of you at any one time. And to build on that you have upgraded at goalkeeper; lost depth and quality at center back; are soon to trade down quality at midfield; and have done nothing to address overall squad size. Resting on your laurels? Lack of ambition? I don't know. But you guys are in for a bumpy ride with more games to deal with this year.

And hence my point. Then likes of yourself and Ipswich or others can have a season where it clicks and give off the impression that you can get in the upper echelon. But the ultimate ability to build a squad and constantly improve isn't there - meaning a swift return to the status quo.

LuckyLloyd

DSB wrote: »

Villa choose not to rip their fans off. Big deal.

Or one club can rip off their fans more than the other because of a relatively more favourable elasticity of supply and demand.

DSB

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Or one club can rip off their fans more than the other because of a relatively more favourable elasticity of supply and demand.

Villa could raise prices if they chose to.

LuckyLloyd

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Exactly, can we get back on topic, no matter how ridiculous a topic it may be!;)

This stuff is all on topic as a key dynamic in the whole saga is the fact that the most influential (or second best!!:pac:) player at a club apparently going in the right direction indicated that he wanted to move to a bigger club at the peak of his career so that he could have a shot at real success before he retires. As such, a discussion of the relative current stature and potential abillity of premiership clubs is very relevant because it dictates how available good players at smaller clubs are to bigger clubs.

LuckyLloyd

DSB wrote: »

Villa could raise prices if they chose to.

Ok. Well if revenue maximization is not a priority for Villa, surely they should lower ticket prices until they sellout Villa Park for all premiership games?

ditpoker

Spurs get touted as the "5th club" the most likely to break into the top 4. This is not because of our AMAZING 11th place finish last year. It is because we are UBER-RICH. Highest season ticket prices, consistently sold out, it is harder to get a ticket to a meaningless home game between spurs and bolton than a ticket to a chelsea game or villa game. Honestly, try and get a ticket for a spurs game a day or 2 before the game, member or not, and it is TOUGH! money floods in, so we can spend alot. people say spurs spend spend spend, but we sell for profit quite often, most recently robbie keane.

even though villa have randy lerner's money there they have yet, in my opinion, to assemle a squad that can get near the top 4. For example, how many fans of big 4 teams would want any of your players bar maybe barry, and even then, its liverpool who are no where near top 2. A very very good measure of a squad is how many of your players would united or chelsea want. spurs have the most players in that bracket (maybe 2!!!). and yes obviously i am a spurs fan, but i know we're rubbish compared to the top 4, spurs villa everton and one or 2 others will battle about between 5th and 8th this season, and no one will get near the top 4.

Villa's best players are Barry, Laursen, Young in my opinion, maybe one or two others, would any of them command a position in a top 3 side? i would think not. and my guess is villa fans will say "yes of course chelsea/united would want barry, young etc", i'd be shocked if any united or chelsea fan on this forum would get marginally excited at signing either. Would they be delighted to get berbatov??

top 4 will be top 4. spurs are pretenders to the 4th place throne but some way off, and the likes of villa/spurs/everton/pompey are just playing for 5th.

also, lloyd said "And to build on that you have upgraded at goalkeeper; lost depth and quality at center back; are soon to trade down quality at midfield; and have done nothing to address overall squad size." this is spot on.

edit: lloyd also said "indicated that he wanted to move to a bigger club at the peak of his career so that he could have a shot at real success before he retires." so why would barry go to liverpool!?!?! larf!!!!

edit 2: as a measure of where villa compare to the upper tier that they will not break into. villa bought steve sidwell, who is excellent, and will probably start 30+ games this year for villa. he could not get near the chelsea team.

Bounty Hunter

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

This stuff is all on topic as a key dynamic in the whole saga is the fact that the most influential (or second best!!:pac:) player at a club apparently going in the right direction indicated that he wanted to move to a bigger club at the peak of his career so that he could have a shot at real success before he retires. As such, a discussion of the relative current stature and potential abillity of premiership clubs is very relevant because it dictates how available good players at smaller clubs are to bigger clubs.

wow thats a stretch, Barry wants to play champions league football, he has openly admitted he wishes to Join Liverpool... spurs who didnt even finish in the same half of the table as Villa dont come into the equation with regards barry, maybe a year ago, not now.

this isnt a Villa vs Spurs who's better thread... hell its not even a Villa vs Liverpool slagging match thread as much as it seemed it at times. its about Gareth Barry and his move which wont involve Spurs. Congrats on making more money than Villa despite having a smaller ground... can we leave it at that cos its just pointless argueing who has better fans etc especially when it has no relevance at all to Barry

Savman

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You didn't disprove my statement. You showed me that Villa had a higher average attendance. Not that they generate more revenue from ticket sales or sell out their stadium more often than Villa do.

Right so it means nothing that Villa get more bums on seats but it means everything that Spurs get lower gates so long as they charge the lucky few extra for the privilege? Bollocks to you and your misguided views.

Back on topic, Barry, boo.

Savman

ditpoker wrote: »

edit 2: as a measure of where villa compare to the upper tier that they will not break into. villa bought steve sidwell, who is excellent, and will probably start 30+ games this year for villa. he could not get near the chelsea team.

Villa fans aren't delusional, we know Top 4 is still beyond us but that's our aim. We can accept Man U, Chelsea etc are a level above where we're at. What we can't accept is the jibes from clubs in or around the same level, that's just bananas.

LuckyLloyd

Savman wrote: »

Right so it means nothing that Villa get more bums on seats but it means everything that Spurs get lower gates so long as they charge the lucky few extra for the privilege? Bollocks to you and your misguided views.

Back on topic, Barry, boo.

Yes, it does mean everything because the modern premiership is no place for romance and is all about the cold maths of making money off the field to ensure success on it.

Bounty Hunter

i like what was just posted in another thread here

prendy wrote: »

i remember an aricle in the indo(i think) a few years back where they looked at the clubs in a business sense and Villa were the best run big club.

again congrats on making money over at WHL no need to come in here and start going on about how spurs is better than Villa in the big list of ways you did, Barry isnt going to Spurs you know

ditpoker

Savman wrote: »

Villa fans aren't delusional, we know Top 4 is still beyond us but that's our aim..

villa fans who believe they will achieve top 4 are delusional. villa fans who believe they are even close to liverpool are delusional.

substitute the word villa for spurs, or pompey or leyton orient or whoever, they above statement is true.

i'm not saying spurs are better/worse than villa. its reasonably irrelevent anyway. i'm still not sure why spurs are mentioned here, but they were so here i am!

from what i can tell lloyds point is that on the pitch potential is very closely linked to off the pitch moneys. he IS right. chelsea havent been successful just cos of mourinho ya know. spurs didnt finish 5th two years in a row cos martin jol was inspired. surely you can see that randy lerner's arrival has helped villa to an extent? how many financially insecure teams routinely do well in europe? villa are going the right direction, not cos of MON, not cos of barry, or young, or laursen, but because of randy lerner.

quarryman

so, Barry eh?