Barry Transfer Saga, will he go to Liverpool

Mr Alan

have you read the entire article lenin? there is no way they could assemble quotes and bring them together to be as explosive as his words are in the article, unless they took individual words, like "tranfer" "leave" etc etc which i really dont think theyd do.

leninbenjamin

Mr Alan wrote: »

have you read the entire article lenin? there is no way they could assemble quotes and bring them together to be as explosive as his words are in the article, unless they took individual words, like "tranfer" "leave" etc etc which i really dont think theyd do.

yeah i read it, and i'd remain skeptical about it. it sounds too good to be true. either he's an absolute moron and is willing to weaken his bargaining position with both clubs, or personal terms have already been agreed which sounds just as far fetched imo. remember tabloids have in the past been done for making sh*t up.

invincibleirish

This is obviously orchestrated to force the move on Barrys part, not surprising he gives a prominent mention to Alex Black, Talk about burning bridges!

Savman

Ah no I'd defo believe the story is authentic, sounds very like the truth tbh. I'm sure some quotes have been sensationalized tho...

JPA

This story is bizarre. So he's wanted to leave for weeks so what does he want the club to do?
Does he want a new contract offer or does he just want to feel loved?

~Rebel~

JPA wrote: »

This story is bizarre. So he's wanted to leave for weeks so what does he want the club to do?
Does he want a new contract offer or does he just want to feel loved?

I suppose his point is that MON has been saying for weeks he wants to keep him, and will only sell him at silly money, when in actual fact he's done nought to keep him. Saying this makes MON's position clearer, it puts it in the public record that theres next to no chance of Barry staying, that efforts aren't being made to change this, and this weakens MON's bargaining position. In saying that, i dont think it'll make much difference to the price, still be around the 15mark i'd imagine. might just speed things up a bit though.

JPA

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I suppose his point is that MON has been saying for weeks he wants to keep him, and will only sell him at silly money, when in actual fact he's done nought to keep him. Saying this makes MON's position clearer, it puts it in the public record that theres next to no chance of Barry staying, that efforts aren't being made to change this, and this weakens MON's bargaining position. In saying that, i dont think it'll make much difference to the price, still be around the 15mark i'd imagine. might just speed things up a bit though.

I understand that but it seems to me like Barry is simply saying he wants to leave but he would have liked Villa to make a bit of an effort even though he would leave no matter what.
Why try to change his mind when his mind is clearly made up?
He told O'Neill he wants to join Liverpool, is he saying that he was open to persuasion? Does he feel a bit sad about the situation? Poor gareth.

wynters

(Oooops! Posted this on the Villa transfer rumours thread but I'll copy it here if this is where it's being talked about...)

I can understand a player wanting Champions League football. That's OK. And if it were Chelsea, Man Utd, or Arsenal who were after Barry (clubs we have NO realistic chance of catching) I'd doff my hat to Barry and say thanks very much for 10 years - 'Best of luck...! But of all the top 4 sides, Liverpool are the club most likely to drop out of that top 4. (There's problems at boardroom level, Benitez' signings tend to sink or swim in equal measure, his rotation policy in the league probably costs them 10+ points a season, and they're struggling for cash with the dollar being weak and a new stadium to develop). So, if Villa are one of the clubs most likely to break into the top 4, and Liverpool are the club most likely to fall out of it, then why should Villa strenghthen their closest rival and weaken themselves in one-fell-swoop by selling their best player for a knock-down price? Liverpool and their fans need to realize that if the market values Carrick, Hargreaves, Mascherano, Bent, SWP etc. upwards of £18m, then Barry is worth that too. And with that 4th CL place in mind, that's certainly what he's worth to Villa.

Liverpools have been no better than Madrid with Ronaldo chasing Barry, using every slimey low-down trick in the book - Going public in the first place, unsettling Barry with 2 games still to play for a UEFA Cup place (which ended-up being a home loss to Wigan and a draw to West Ham) / using Gerrard's 'friendship' as a lever in the press, now getting Barry to spin the problem back onto O'Neill by citing O'Neill's supposed shortcomings in NOT doing enough to try keep him??????? A public swipe from a previously model-pro at Liverpools instruction no doubt... just to discredit O'Neill to Villa fans.

The whole thing has become more than unprofessionally public. This is getting nasty now. Barry was a squeaky clean model-pro until today, but after a public attack like that, on a man like Martin O'Neill (whom I think we all know enough of at this stage to call 'a decent bloke'), Villa fans should back O'Neill 110%.

If Barry held a meeting with O'Neill 7 weeks ago and told him he'd made his mind up to leave back at that stage, then what more does he want the club to speak to him about?????? That's not inviting more dialogue, it's stating you don't want any! The only thing left to talk about is a satisfactory transfer value for Villa, and negotiations of that type don't involve the player, so Barry is talkin complete BS. It's pure spin now to suggest the reason Barry wants to leave is because O'Neill didn't do enough to try keep him. The problem here is Liverpool thinking they have an automatic entitlement to a player on the cheap because they hold the trump card of CL football, and a player who had his head turned (long ago).

I actually think that if this had been done in the right way, via the correct channels and behind closed doors, there's a chance Barry might already be a Liverpool player!!! But Liverpool's conduct from the off has been - quite frankly, disgusting. So much for the old-skool, 'bootroom' ethos. Liverpool are even worse than United and Chelsea at this stage...

If anything, this should and no doubt WILL harden O'Neills attitude further. And rightly so...

Kildarered

Barry will defo be at Liverpool next season

wynters

Kildarered wrote: »

Barry will defo be at Liverpool next season

Don't think anyone really doubts that at this stage... but it will be on Villa's terms. There's no point poisoning Liverpools rep as a club, getting Barry to compromise his own reputation by doing dirty work in the press, or subjecting Martin O'Neill to personal attacks to save £4m.

Liverpool are foolishly turning this into a point of principle for Villa, and the more Liverpool play dirty, the more Villa are gonna dig their heels in over it.

raven136

tbh if it drags on any more than two weeks i can see rafa just saying bite me and getting someone else(Javi martinez/de la red)or keeping alonso.
But Barry does have a point,if Villa want him and the poor diddums didnt like Rafa upsetting him then why did MON head off to euro 2008 and does the chief exec not have his mobile number to ask him about staying.
They are trying to make Pool look bad in this when possibly they just want the twenty mill and getting in a cheaper replacement(sidwell).

JPA

raven136 wrote: »

tbh if it drags on any more than two weeks i can see rafa just saying bite me and getting someone else(Javi martinez/de la red)or keeping alonso.
But Barry does have a point,if Villa want him and the poor diddums didnt like Rafa upsetting him then why did MON head off to euro 2008 and does the chief exec not have his mobile number to ask him about staying.
They are trying to make Pool look bad in this when possibly they just want the twenty mill and getting in a cheaper replacement(sidwell).

Does Barry want to leave or not? This interview is sending mixed messages.
Why does he care what Villa have done? If he wants out hand in a transfer request or is he just looking a for a fat new contract?

Mr Alan

Wynters, there is sooooo much wrong with your post that i actually cant even be arsed writing out a full reply.

needless to say it was a stupid stupid post.

wynters

Mr Alan wrote: »

Wynters, there is sooooo much wrong with your post that i actually cant even be arsed writing out a full reply.

needless to say it was a stupid stupid post.

:rolleyes:

Mr Alan

thats some good eye rolling

JPA

I thought it was a pretty good post.

raven136

aston villa going to catch pool.no offence but i cant see it,
Villas big striker signing..Carew then pool sign Torres.
A midfield of gerrard,alonso/barry,mascherano.
Two of the best young centre halfs in england in agger and skertel.
Where do you see Villa as better than us?
Your point about rotation is wrong and taken from a biased media rep of Benitez.
But maybe villa will catch liverpool because MON is a decent fella:rolleyes:

Also if ye want to catch anyone would it not be arsenal who seem to be selling all their best players.Also spurs signings have put pressure on Villa as they seem to be heading in the right direction..modric,gomes

Mr Alan

you would being a Villa fan.

but most of the points in it were ridiculous eg: benitez signings, dropping 10 points cause of all the rotation, barry being worth the same as Mascherano, despite Mascherano costing about 12m,comparing Liverpools actions to Reals?,i'd also put us more secure, or at least equally secure than Arsenal-we are not losing any of top players,have won more since Rafa arrived, and finished ahead of em in the league 2 of the last 3 years, O'Neill being some sort of ****ing angel?, being unprofessionally public-emmm cheers for that MON etc etc etc etc etc

just a really stupid post.

and just so you know, O'Neill admitted on the BBC over the Euros that players hold all the power these days.

seem to remember me saying that and being mocked and laughed at by the Villa fans during this debacle?! well your "great" MON agrees with me.

zing

JPA wrote: »

Why try to change his mind when his mind is clearly made up? He told O'Neill he wants to join Liverpool, is he saying that he was open to persuasion? Does he feel a bit sad about the situation? Poor gareth.

There's always a chance of changing a players mind again - if they're feeling unloved make them see that you do indeed love them or whatever. e.g. Gerrard may have changed his own mind about leaving but behind the scenes the club were (finally) trying to do everything they could to persuade him to stay. And he'd gone a step further at the time than Barry has now. There's always that chance..

Mr Alan

as Helix has said, from wat barry has said i get the impression that if Villa had have acted a bit better in this situation he may have been open to staying.

Chardee MacDennis

wynters wrote: »

Benitez' signings tend to sink or swim in equal measure, his rotation policy in the league probably costs them 10+ points a season

and i stopped reading when i realized you dont know waht you are talking about....

wynters wrote: »

Liverpool are foolishly turning this into a point of principle for Villa, and the more Liverpool play dirty, the more Villa are gonna dig their heels in over it.

and then you follow it up with this, my god you REALLy don't know what you are talking about!

wynters

Mr Alan wrote: »

you would being a Villa fan.

but most of the points in it were ridiculous eg: benitez signings, dropping 10 points cause of all the rotation, barry being worth the same as Mascherano, despite Mascherano costing about 12m,comparing Liverpools actions to Reals?,i'd also put us more secure, or at least equally secure than Arsenal-we are not losing any of top players,have won more since Rafa arrived, and finished ahead of em in the league 2 of the last 3 years, O'Neill being some sort of ****ing angel?, being unprofessionally public-emmm cheers for that MON etc etc etc etc etc

just a really stupid post.

I harbour no great desire to unecessarily enter into debate with Liverpool fans regarding the merits, or lack thereof, of Liverpool Football Club. However, the points made were to support a point of view that Liverpool were 'the most catchable' of the top 4 clubs, and that they were unprofessional for chasing a player via the media whom they were told is not for sale. So in a bid to defend those 'stupid' points, which are seemingly agreeable to everyone but Liverpool fans;

Re: Benitez Signings
Antonio Nunez, Zenden, Josemi, Jan Kromkamp, Aurelio, Voronin, Gonzalez, Morientes, Bellamy, Sissoko, Barragan, Palletta, Pennant, Kuyt???? To name but a few... need I continue?

Re: Dropped Points/Squad rotation.
If you're not fielding your best 11 available players, you're rotating the squad. Simple as. Liverpool finished 37 points off top spot in Benitez' first season, 21 points the seaosn before last. If Gerrard, Carragher etc. had played every minute of every game they were available for in those seasons, do you not think a consistently full strength Liverpool team would have finished a little less far behind the eventual winners?

Re: Mascherano
Far be it from me to advise Liverpool fans about their own players, but he cost a fee 'in the region of' £18.6m. Google it.

Re: Liverpool / Real unprofessional comparison
If a club is told that a player is not for sale, the 'professional' thing to do would be to respect that he's not for sale and look elsewhere. By that rationale, to continue pursuing the player (especially via unofficial channels i.e in the media) is UNprofessional. Although there's no specific law against going public about making a bid for a player, to do so - in Barrys case, when he still had two important games left to play for Villa - is inconsiderate to boot, to put it mildly. There is no difference whatsoever between the way Liverpool have chased Barry and Madrid have chased Ronaldo. In fact, at least Madrid waited until the end of the season before making their interest known... instead of going public about making a bid for Barry when he still had 2 vital games to play.

sweetie

em, was it not MON who broke the news with his 'nameless players' jibe?

invincibleirish

Dont mind the deluded Pool fans Wynters, in their eyes Rafa & Liverpool have done and can do no wrong, its the Liverpool way remember:p

Its only coincidence that Barry gets stroppy after Liverpool & Stevie G go to the press and open their big mouths.

You lot are even more blind if you think Barry has planned all this out on his little ownsome, no doubt 'encouragement' came from somewhere to force the move through, Its Christian Ziege all over again.

I await what MON has to say on the matter, hopefully he wont be draped over the backpage of a trashy red top in trying to make his point. Classy.

Thanx 4 The Fish

The fact that MON has not even spoken to Barry since he went off to work for the BBC, disregarding his actual job says all that needs to be said as far as I am concerned.

invincibleirish

What is this gib about MON not having spoken to Barry? on the BBC MON said he had spoken to Barry who confirmed he wanted to go. He then said Villa had a valuation that Liverpool would have to meet before selling Barry, looks like LFC and their nefarious influence have opted for plan B now that they cant afford Villas valuation.

Ultimately this changes nothing bar extending the saga, it can be all over tomorrow if Liverpool meet Villas valuation(no doubt Barrys T&Cs wont take long to discuss;)), something they are obviously not prepared to do, what a coincidence its now that Barry speaks out in the red tops.

MON is on the beeb tonight, hopefully he'll say something.

If Barry wants a new improved contract then its up to him and his agent to ask the club for one, he only got a new contract less then a year ago FFS!, the club shouldnt have to go rushing in offering a new contract everytime another club comes sniffing around for one of their players.

Barry is a disgrace in his actions, he'll fit right in at Liverpool.

~Rebel~

invincibleirish wrote: »

What is this gib about MON not having spoken to Barry? on the BBC MON said he had spoken to Barry who confirmed he wanted to go. He then said Villa had a valuation that Liverpool would have to meet before selling Barry, looks like LFC and their nefarious influence have opted for plan B now that they cant afford Villas valuation.

Ultimately this changes nothing bar extending the saga, it can be all over tomorrow if Liverpool meet Villas valuation(no doubt Barrys T&Cs wont take long to discuss;)), something they are obviously not prepared to do, what a coincidence its now Barry speaks out in the red tops.

MON is on the beeb tonight, hopefully he'll say something.

If Barry wants a new improved contract then its up to him and his agent to ask the club for one, he only got a new contract less then a year ago FFS!, the club shouldnt have to go rushing in offering a new contract everytime another club comes sniffing around for one of their players.

? The guy said "MON has not even spoken to Barry since he went off to work for the BBC". He's right. Barry said it, and MON has said nothing to contradict it. What your saying about what he said on the BBC is slightly wrong, I was watching it live at the time. It was in the first round of games and he said "I spoke to Barry last week and he said he wanted to join liverpool". ergo, this conversation took place before the euro's.


And on the point of Barry talking about not being offered anything or talked to about staying, i think a lot of people are massively missing the point. MON has said repeatedly he doesn't want to sell the player and wants to keep him. Barry simply pointed out that MON has not tried to disuede him or convince him to stay. Therefore, MON was not telling the truth about being mad to keep him. This means everyone and their dog now knows that Villa have no intentions of keeping him, want to sell, and Barry wants to leave. It effectively means a deal for reasonable money is far more likely now. Sure, villa can keep him and stick him in the reserves to rot, but this doesn't benefit them in any way and frankly its stupid to keep a player who doesn't want to be there if someone is willing to pay 15mill for them.

And Wynters, pool didn't come out and publicaly state an interest, they possibly leaked an interest to the papers, massive difference. one is a statement of fact, the other is yet another bit of paper talk. (As has been pointed out on the villa forum, villa have been linked to over a hundred players, this would have been little different to any of them until talks got serious). MON himself was the first to state that a bid had been made, he was the first to make it a big public spat and he was the only person who made sure that story would have been looked at with much more creedence. Had he ignored yet another random paper story, as he does every day, everything would have been as it always is with transfers. The way some people are talking its like they think liverpool are running a daily commentary of the player on the official website. MON brought it into the public forum to garner leverage and maintain power over proceedings. This imo is fine, its business and MON is a clever man who used the media to his advantage. Thinking he's a poor naive manager, stabbed in the back by big bad liverpool is just childish. He's a wiley chap, you guys should know better. Same for people thinking Barry is only going because his bestest bestest friend Stevie was whispering in his ear. He's an grown adult, making a decision on the future of his career, same as any of us have to do. Do you make a job change simply cause your buddy is working in another firm or do you make it based on a hundred important decisions that will shape how your life moves on from here?

There is no right and wrong here, there is only Business.

invincibleirish

~Rebel~ wrote: »

? The guy said "MON hasn't talked to Barry since the euro's started. He's right. Barry said it, and MON has said nothign to contradict it. What your saying about what he said on the BBC is slightly wrong, I was watching it live at the time. It was in the first round of games and he said "I spoke to Barry last week and he said he wanted to join liverpool". ergo, this conversation took place before the euro's.

Whats the point you are trying to make? MON spoke to GB before the Euros and GB said he wanted to go, thats fine, MON set a valuation, Liverpool wont match it and now Barry goes running to the red tops, how about Barry telling Alex Black to tell Liverpool to just meet the valuation and stop wasting Villas time?

~Rebel~ wrote: »

? And on the point of Barry talking about not being offered anything or talked to about staying, i think a lot of people are massively missing the point. MON has said repeatedly he doesn't want to sell the player and wants to keep him. Barry simply pointed out that MON has not tried to disuede him or convince him to stay. Therefore, MON was not telling the truth about being mad to keep him. This means everyone and their dog now knows that Villa have no intentions of keeping him, want to sell, and Barry wants to leave. It effectively means a deal for reasonable money is far more likely now. Sure, villa can keep him and stick him in the reserves to rot, but this doesn't benefit them in any way and frankly its stupid to keep a player who doesn't want to be there if someone is willing to pay 15mill for them.

What did Villa have to do to try to convince him stay? He is already club captain and amongst the best paid players, as i said he negotiated a new contract less then 12 months ago, if he wanted a new one why didnt he ask?

~Rebel~ wrote: »

? And Wynters, pool didn't come out and publicaly state an interest, they possibly leaked an interest to the papers, massive difference. one is a statement of fact, the other is yet another bit of paper talk. (As has been pointed out on the villa forum, villa have been linked to over a hundred players, this would have been little different to any of them until talks got serious). MON himself was the first to state that a bid had been made, he was the first to make it a big public spat and he was the only person who made sure that story would have been looked at with much more creedence. Had he ignored yet another random paper story, as he does every day, everything would have been as it always is with transfers. The way some people are talking its like they think liverpool are running a daily commentary of the player on the official website. MON brought it into the public forum to garner leverage and maintain power over proceedings. This imo is fine, its business and MON is a clever man who used the media to his advantage. Thinking he's a poor naive manager, stabbed in the back by big bad liverpool is just childish. He's a wiley chap, you guys should know better. Same for people thinking Barry is only going because his bestest bestest friend Stevie was whispering in his ear. He's an grown adult, making a decision on the future of his career, same as any of us have to do. Do you make a job change simply cause your buddy is working in another firm or do you make it based on a hundred important decisions that will shape how your life moves on from here?

There is no right and wrong here, there is only Business.

Yes its just business, football business which is pretty murky at the best of times without clubs using troublesome agents and media surrogates to force a transfer, look we all know Liverpool have tapped up GB unofficially, these kind of practices undermine and drag footballs name through the mud, Liverpool have acted in a dishonest manner through their manipulation of the media & Barry, Villa & MON have only reacted to and not engineereed this situation.

Just meet the valuation Liverpool and be done with it, put up or shut up.

Mr Alan

InvincibleIrish;

i may have missed it, but were you livid over an Aston Villa player discussing the possible signing of Bentley in the press last week??? is that tapping up?

I dont think so, but by your definition it is.

Or let me guess, when the Villa lad does it, its ok, but when Liverpool do it, its a dispicable act?

edit: why would we meet your insane valuation when its very clear that Barry wont be playing for Villa again-you no longer hold all the cards I'm afraid. I'd be shocked if we payed anymore than 15m.

invincibleirish

General Krulak on the Gareth Barry situation wrote: »

1. Barry: Obviously I am not going to get into a debate with Gareth Barry on a Fan Web Site...it would not be professional and it is not the way I operate. At the same time, I would expect the Fans to take a step back and think about this issue. Barry is the Captain of our Squad. Barry has played for us over the years. Barry has been successful for Aston Villa Football Club and, recently, been successful for the English Side. Does any Fan actually believe that we have just waved goodby? Does any Fan actually believe that we haven't spoken to Gareth or his Agent? Does any Fan actually believe that no one has told Gareth that he is valued? These are simple questions but ones that I hope you would ask yourself. Our Fans are pretty savvy folks...and I have confidence that they will come up with the right answers. Our Fans certainly do not need me to engage in a debate...they can think for themselves.

.

Mr Alan

Shock horror! the general doesnt put any blame at his, MONs or Randy Lerners feet!!!! without actually saying anything, just compliments all the Villa fans about how savvy they are and they should be able to realise the truth.

who wouldve thought it? :rolleyes:

invincibleirish

Mr Alan wrote: »

InvincibleIrish;

i may have missed it, but were you livid over an Aston Villa player discussing the possible signing of Bentley in the press last week??? is that tapping up?

I dont think so, but by your definition it is.

Or let me guess, when the Villa lad does it, its ok, but when Liverpool do it, its a dispicable act?

:rolleyes:, look im sure you are a clever person, so you'll already know the differences between Craig Gardner talking about wanting to play with DB and Liverpool forcing a transfer through media, their captain & Barrys Agent, stop attempting to compare the situations and being a Liverpool apologist, check out the Villa fan forums there are plenty of Liverpool fans who openly admit their clubs behaviour has been outrageous, no one likes a sycophant;).

Thanx 4 The Fish

Originally Posted by General Krulak on the Gareth Barry situation
1. Barry: Obviously I am not going to get into a debate with Gareth Barry on a Fan Web Site...it would not be professional and it is not the way I operate. At the same time, I would expect the Fans to take a step back and think about this issue. Barry is the Captain of our Squad. Barry has played for us over the years. Barry has been successful for Aston Villa Football Club and, recently, been successful for the English Side. Does any Fan actually believe that we have just waved goodby? Does any Fan actually believe that we haven't spoken to Gareth or his Agent? Does any Fan actually believe that no one has told Gareth that he is valued? These are simple questions but ones that I hope you would ask yourself. Our Fans are pretty savvy folks...and I have confidence that they will come up with the right answers. Our Fans certainly do not need me to engage in a debate...they can think for themselves.

Reminds me of that south park episode.

Chinpokomon Executive: You have such a large penis.

Sharon Marsh: What??

Chinpokomon Executive: Your penis, wow!

(Mr. Hosik slaps his executive and pushes him aside)

Mr. Hosik: What he means is all MEN in this town have very large penis.

Sharon Marsh: Can't you see what's happening? They're just using their talk to distract you! He doesn't really have a small penis!

(Mr. Hosik pulls down his pants, everybody looks shocked)

Sharon Marsh: Oh.

Mr Alan

there is no difference between Gardner discussing the possiblity of Bentley going to Villa and Gerrard discussing the possibility of Barry going to Liverpool.

did liverpool leak the bid through the media?perhaps, but its something all clubs do, MON who was the one who made this public, that is a fact.

After that, i fail to see how Liverpool have done a single thing wrong in this instance. The Echo story and Gerrards interview are the only real gripes, Villa fans can have. One of them gripes is speculation and the other Villa themselves have done in the last week.

So as much as no one likes a sycophant, everyone hates a hypocrite, so stop being one.

I was on Villatalk in the early hours this morning and saw the welcome one Liverpool fan got in the GB thread. Makes the Villa thread here look like a friendly place, Villatalks own mod had to slate the Villa fans and lock the thread until he could clean it up.

~Rebel~

invincibleirish wrote: »

Whats the point you are trying to make? MON spoke to GB before the Euros and GB said he wanted to go, thats fine, MON set a valuation, Liverpool wont match it and now Barry goes running to the red tops, how about Barry telling Alex Black to tell Liverpool to just meet the valuation and stop wasting Villas time?

There was no point, just clarification. Someone said "MON hasn't talked to Barry since he started working for the BBC", you said "What is this gib about MON not having spoken to Barry?" and I explained what the 'gib' was and clarified that it wasn't a case of 'ever' but since the Euro's started. Just trying to keep the debates clear so we're all talking about the same thing.

What did Villa have to do to try to convince him stay? He is already club captain and amongst the best paid players, as i said he negotiated a new contract less then 12 months ago, if he wanted a new one why didnt he ask?

Look, i know what you're saying and under the same circumstances for pool, if i was pissed off id also be saying 'what more does the bastard want', but if you look at it objectively, the obvious thing for a boss to do If He Really Wants To Keep The Employee (as he repeatedly said he did), is to call him. Have a chat. See if this is really absolutely what he wanted to do. Its not about offering him new cars or contracts, its about seeing if this is definately the course of action everyone should be looking at. Its what a manager would do if he really was intent on keeping the player, as he said he was. The way things have actually unfolded its more like he took the same tack as you, going straight for an angry FU, we'll take the money, rather then opening communication. See, it cant be both. You can't maintain you want to keep the guy, and then not talk to the guy about keeping him.

Yes its just business, football business which is pretty murky at the best of times without clubs using troublesome agents and media surrogates to force a transfer, look we all know Liverpool have tapped up GB unofficially, these kind of practices undermine and drag footballs name through the mud, Liverpool have acted in a dishonest manner through their manipulation of the media & Barry, Villa & MON have only reacted to and not engineereed this situation.

Just meet the valuation Liverpool and be done with it, put up or shut up.

MON most certainly engineered the situation. Consider this; what was the first thing to sensationalise this whole thing? Was it yet another story in the echo? or was it Martin O Neil's stinging interview where he was in a rage about a story which had no comments from anyone directly related to liverpool? MON was the catalyst for everything that followed. It meant everything switched from paper talk to actual comments from both sides, creating a totally different ball game. Why you guys don't embrace that this happened i dont know, he's a wiley old fox (pun intended), and if i were yee id give him credit for it, it swung everything in villa's favour.

And on your final point, this is where Barry's recent statement comes in. We all now know Villa WILL sell. Theres been no interest in keeping Barry so obviously their minds are already made up. Afetr this statement there is no way he'll be captain and even playing will probably lead to bad blood. If he stays it'll be to rot which benefits noone. Barry is forcing the move. I do think it'll still be 14 or 15, but this completely now rules out a silly money 18mill move which had possibly been on the cards for a while

invincibleirish

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Look, i know what you're saying and under the same circumstances for pool, if i was pissed off id also be saying 'what more does the bastard want', but if you look at it objectively, the obvious thing for a boss to do If He Really Wants To Keep The Employee (as he repeatedly said he did), is to call him. Have a chat. See if this is really absolutely what he wanted to do. Its not about offering him new cars or contracts, its about seeing if this is definately the course of action everyone should be looking at. Its what a manager would do if he really was intent on keeping the player, as he said he was. The way things have actually unfolded its more like he took the same tack as you, going straight for an angry FU, we'll take the money, rather then opening communication. See, it cant be both. You can't maintain you want to keep the guy, and then not talk to the guy about keeping him.

Whos maintaining Villa were going to keep him? Ever since MON on the Beeb made clear that he wanted to go then the game has been set, we already know Villa were ready to sell, we already know GB wanted to go, its now a matter of LFC meeting Villas valuation, which they refuse to do. MON knows the players head has been turned, why should he try and convince a player who doesnt want to be at VP to stay? MON set a price and went off on his Euro 2008 holidays waiting for Pool to meet that valuation.

~Rebel~ wrote: »

MON most certainly engineered the situation. Consider this; what was the first thing to sensationalise this whole thing? Was it yet another story in the echo? or was it Martin O Neil's stinging interview where he was in a rage about a story which had no comments from anyone directly related to liverpool? MON was the catalyst for everything that followed. It meant everything switched from paper talk to actual comments from both sides, creating a totally different ball game. Why you guys don't embrace that this happened i dont know, he's a wiley old fox (pun intended), and if i were yee id give him credit for it, it swung everything in villa's favour.

Yes it was MON who engineered this situation, of course it was:rolleyes:

~Rebel~ wrote: »

And on your final point, this is where Barry's recent statement comes in. We all now know Villa WILL sell. Theres been no interest in keeping Barry so obviously their minds are already made up. Afetr this statement there is no way he'll be captain and even playing will probably lead to bad blood. If he stays it'll be to rot which benefits noone. Barry is forcing the move. I do think it'll still be 14 or 15, but this completely now rules out a silly money 18mill move which had possibly been on the cards for a while

We've known since MON said so that GB was leaving, and we know that he would sell if the price was right, this article isnt news, just evidence of how long this saga has gone on for because Pool wont meet the asking price.

~Rebel~

Up till now, MON has said Barry could leave but only on MON's terms. Now its clear that Barry is going to leave regardless. Means Villa can't really hold out for something liverpool consider silly money. The situation at Villa is unworkable for them. Barry can't stay, he'd be boo'ed by the fans every game, he'd have to have the captaincy stripped, and would most likely just turn into a quickly depreciating asset in the reserves. Where up to now it looked like he 'could' stay and just be annoyed, but still do his best (And there are loads of comments on both this and the villa thread of villa fans saying this, saying what a pro he is and that he could even stay captain), whereas now its simply not even an option anymore. He's come out against his manager, said his mananger hasn't been trying to change his mind, said he is definately adamant about being off.

Theres only 1 bidder, and the seller cant use the product anymore. Needless to say, the price pretty much has to be a reasonable one, it makes no sense for a buyer to pay more then their valuation, its simple economics.

If an offer below Villa's valuation came in, say 14mill, i couldn't see it not being accepted. There's just no alternative, besides making an example of Barry which really isn't worth the cost to them - they'd lose a potential 14mill as well as his wages over the rest of his contract.

Villain

Liverpool have a better squad than Villa, Liverpool have a better history and Liverpool are in the Champions league.

Villa's captain says he wants to leave for Liverpool and MON has said he can only leave when Liverpool meet their valuation which I'm guessing is around the same as Carrick or Hargreaves. Liverpool don't want to pay that money because imo they know Barry won't really improve their squad that much and they could spend the same money and get a better player from Europe but Benitz is under pressure to get Barry as Gerrard wants him and he's well used to the Premier League and could help them get nearer Chelsea and UTD.

The European championship only start a few weeks ago and before that MON spoke with Barry he said he wanted to leave and MON said ok we're asking Liverpool for x amount, once they meet that you can leave.

Barry thought Liverpool would have met the offer or came close enough for Villa to accept a deal but that hasn't happened and now he expects Villa to offer him a big improved contract to try and keep him incase Liverpool look elsewhere.

To summise its modern football imo:
:Liverpool try to unsettle the player so he demands a transfer
:Villa dig in and look for a inflated fee
:Liverpool won't pay the big fee and start to look elsewhere
:Player realises this and comes out looking for a transfer or improved contract

Next imo is either Liverpool pay near the asking price and Barry goes, if Liverpool don't come near the inflated price Villa offer Barry a club record contract and he stays. Modern football is all it is.

~Rebel~

Villain wrote: »

Next imo is either Liverpool pay near the asking price and Barry goes, if Liverpool don't come near the inflated price Villa offer Barry a club record contract and he stays. Modern football is all it is.

how would you guys as fans take this actually? Do you think he'd be taken back in by the fans? Would he be boo'd regularly? Could he keep the captaincy?

Villain

I think if he came out and said he was happy to stay and played as well as did last season the fans would get behind him.

Villain

Update from Official Villa site:

Martin O'Neill has expressed his and chairman Randy Lerner's 'surprise' at comments attributed to Gareth Barry in a national newspaper today.

The Villa boss insists Barry was offered 'a variety of options' to keep him at Villa Park - all of which failed to halt the skipper's desire to join Liverpool.

But O'Neill insists the Anfield club will have to match Villa's valuation of Barry to secure a transfer.

MON told [url]www.avfc.co.uk:[/url] "My chairman and I were surprised with the comments attributed to Gareth Barry in his exclusive interview with a national newspaper today.

"Contrary to what was reported, we desperately wanted to keep Gareth at Villa Park and he knows that.

"We asked both Gareth and his agent to consider what had been discussed at our meeting which included a variety of options to incentivise the player.

"But Gareth came back from England international duty in June and reiterated his intention to join Liverpool and he told me so.

"But Liverpool's valuation of Gareth has been consistently well short of our own and at the moment remains so.

"We have made our position clear in respect of Liverpool's interest in the captain of our club but if Liverpool meet our valuation then Gareth Barry will get his express wish to leave Villa Park."

~Rebel~

Villain wrote: »

Update from Official Villa site:

if it wasn't so damn drawn out it would be a pretty interesting transfer saga. Now we've got the 2 parties within Villa accusing each other of lies. Only one can be telling the absolute truth. Barry claims he's never been talked to, MON says thats not true. The truth in these things is usually found somewhere in the middle, but it cant end well for Villa to have a public spat between Barry and Villa. I dont think MON is the type of guy to forgive and forget..

Villain

I actually think both are telling the truth, MON spoke with Barry after he came back from England duty and offered him something to stay, Barry said he wanted to leave and MON said ok when Liverpool offer us what we want you can go, that hasn't happened in the last few weeks and Barry thinks MON should have come back with a better offer.

Bounty Hunter

well its the NOTW we have claiming that Barry claims he hasnt spoken to MON that might be were the discreptancy lies IMO. not exactley two parties within Villa accusing each other of lies. MON even repeatidly refers to the words attributed to Barry not what Gareth said tbh.

~Rebel~

invincibleirish wrote: »

Yes it was MON who engineered this situation, of course it was:rolleyes:

........I offered an opinion and backed it up with facts. If you disagree you follow it up with your own opinion and back it up with facts. mon WAS the first to add creedence to the paper talk. Im sure i dont need to, but if you want, i can post the story from the echo, complete with not a single comment from anyone affiliated with LFC. Then i can post up the interview where MON confirmed the rumour (and thats all it was until that point) and made it fact. THAT is what started all of this.

rolleyes just shows you dont have a reply.





Thats true Bounty Hunter, but we can only deal with quotes as if they are actually attributed to the person, otherwise we'd have to second guess every single debate here.
What i thought was interesting in Barry's comments was that the club officials had kept saying MON was going to call him but that he never did. Thats what makes me think there's something to this, rather then just the difference between a few weeks of contact being the discrepency.

invincibleirish

~Rebel~ wrote: »

........I offered an opinion and backed it up with facts. If you disagree you follow it up with your own opinion and back it up with facts. mon WAS the first to add creedence to the paper talk. Im sure i dont need to, but if you want, i can post the story from the echo, complete with not a single comment from anyone affiliated with LFC. Then i can post up the interview where MON confirmed the rumour (and thats all it was until that point) and made it fact. THAT is what started all of this.

rolleyes just shows you dont have a reply.
.

Look ive refrained from arguing again with you and Mr.Alan over the same points that have cropped up again & again on this thread, you think Liverpool are innocent and have done nothing wrong, of course you are going to say that MON started it all when its clear Liverpool have used all means available to them to force this transfer,that includes manipulating the media, using their captain as a go between and generally doing everything but meet the asking price, its that simple, just pay it already and save us all the drama:rolleyes:.

Jesus Wept

Get your cheque book Mr Alan.

~Rebel~

invincibleirish wrote: »

Look ive refrained from arguing again with you and Mr.Alan over the same points that have cropped up again & again on this thread, you think Liverpool are innocent and have done nothing wrong, of course you are going to say that MON started it all when its clear Liverpool have used all means available to them to force this transfer,that includes manipulating the media, using their captain as a go between and generally doing everything but meet the asking price, its that simple, just pay it already and save us all the drama:rolleyes:.

You keep saying things like this as though someone here is affiliated with the club........

Its just a bit pointless going onto a discussion forum, discussing a specific point and not actually bothering to give your reasoning behind your opinion. Bear in mind the point Was Not who was right and wrong, but simply who manufactured the situation. I put it to you that Martin O Neil did and gave full reasons as to exactly why i think this. That he was the first person from either club to even mention the situation and he was the only reason this even became a story rather then just being like one of the (over a hundred) players Villa have been linked with in the papers. If you disagree with this point, then you give your reason. Its a discussion forum, thats how debate works. Simply giving a rolleyes does nothing but infuriate, and show that you dont actually have a reply.

By the way im not actually sure you've read anything i wrote, i've never said Liverpool have done nothing wrong. I've repeatedly said both sides have done what they can to sway the situation in their favour. Its business. Its not a pantomime of Good guys and Bad guys, its just businessmen, doing business. I've pointed out above i have no problem with what MON did, i just cant see why you cant admit that his outburst is what inflamed the situation. Fair fcks to him i say, he's doing what he thinks is best for the club. I think its an insult to him to simply treat him like a naive 'good guy'.

Helix

~Rebel~ wrote: »

how would you guys as fans take this actually? Do you think he'd be taken back in by the fans? Would he be boo'd regularly? Could he keep the captaincy?

any villa fan who boos gareth barry, whether he stays or goes, is an idiot

zing

Villain wrote: »

but Benitz is under pressure to get Barry as Gerrard wants him

Do you honestly think Benitez gives a sh!t about what Gerrard thinks here ? He certainly didn't when he repeatedly played him out of his preferred position or say when he subbed him during a recent derby.

There's no way Rafa would try and sign a player because Gerrard or anyone else (outside his scouting network) wanted him to.

imo Gerrard's public comments are little more than him being a muppet. If he wanted to turn one of his mates heads he hardly needs to use international media does he ?

Villain wrote: »

I think if he came out and said he was happy to stay and played as well as did last season the fans would get behind him.

I agree with you there. At the moment I see little reason why he couldn't continue as captain. Others (most notably Gerrard) have done so. Yes a certain % of fans will never look at him the same way again but a huge percentage will forgive & forget very easily.