Religious freedom

DinoBot

Hi,

Its been in the papers recently about the school that wanted advice from the government on allowing girls to wear hijab in school. A poll should that over 50% would be in favor of it. Many reporters took this to be saying people are in favor of religious freedom in schools. But on listening to people being interviewed I think thats wrong.

I think people only allow religious freedom when that freedom does not go against what they think is moral or correct. If it does than its not allowed.

Most people said hijab should be allowed but when asked if a full covering only showing the child's eyes should be allowed ALL said no. This to me shows its not a question of defending someones religious freedom but rather the act does not offend.

Do people here feel religious freedom should be allowed in schools ? And if so, how far should that go ?
Im not sure if a non-muslim would be allowed to be uncovered or wear a shorter dress than the other kids in an Islamic school.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

I would imagine girls get told they hasve to wear their skirts at a certain length in most catholic schools as well, this is a human problem more so than an islamic problem.

DinoBot

Mordances with the proletariat wrote: »

I would imagine girls get told they hasve to wear their skirts at a certain length in most catholic schools as well, this is a human problem more so than an islamic problem.

Well thats not really the same because in the case of hijab the girls are asking to wear something which is not part of the uniform while in your case they are being asked to conform to the uniform standard.

human problem rather than religious ? I disagree, its only a religious issue as I see it.

donaghs

Mordances with the proletariat wrote: »

I would imagine girls get told they hasve to wear their skirts at a certain length in most catholic schools as well, this is a human problem more so than an islamic problem.

That's called a school uniform. You could suggest this be ammended to include the option of a hijab. But the point of a school uniform is to have a uniform standard - exceptions can be a tricky area.

irishconvert

donaghs wrote: »

That's called a school uniform. You could suggest this be ammended to include the option of a hijab. But the point of a school uniform is to have a uniform standard - exceptions can be a tricky area.

I don't see any problem with making an exception for somebody if it is a religious obligation that they wear a certain piece of clothing as long as it could not be considerd offensive.

DinoBot

irishconvert wrote: »

I don't see any problem with making an exception for somebody if it is a religious obligation that they wear a certain piece of clothing as long as it could not be considerd offensive.

I suppose thats what I was asking, is it religious freedom or simply the request is non-offensive.
Because what is non offensive to one culture can be offensive to another. Im sure denying god could be deemed offensive.

If you read some of the responses of the muslims womens on this board to wearing hijab it always comes down to how the women who don't cover up are somehow less moral. I believe a request to be uncovered in an Islamic school would be deemed offensive and therefore NOT allowed.

If you allow it out of religious freedom then even if its offensive to you it should be allowed.

merrionsq

irishconvert wrote: »

I don't see any problem with making an exception for somebody if it is a religious obligation that they wear a certain piece of clothing as long as it could not be considerd offensive.

It's not a uniform if every existing (and yet to be created) religion and sect and belief system are allowed to ammend it as they see fit.

BuffyBot

merrionsq wrote: »

It's not a uniform if every existing (and yet to be created) religion and sect and belief system are allowed to ammend it as they see fit.

However, it is, if the school choose so.

The UK has faced this and most schools came up with a simple solution - a uniform scarf that is part of the range of items within the schools uniform, in the colour of the school.

In the same way that a female student can choose to wear a skirt or trousers in some schools, they can choose to wear the uniform headscarf is the wish, irrespective of religion in this case.

DinoBot

BuffyBot wrote: »

However, it is, if the school choose so.

The UK has faced this and most schools came up with a simple solution - a uniform scarf that is part of the range of items within the schools uniform, in the colour of the school.

In the same way that a female student can choose to wear a skirt or trousers in some schools, they can choose to wear the uniform headscarf is the wish, irrespective of religion in this case.

So, would you think all schools should adopt similar approach to have the option for hijab and Burkas ?

merrionsq

Yeh, it's ridiculous. It stops becoming a uniform if you can use religion to justify wearing anything.

Trying to please everyone may work if there are only a few changes, but its basically then a carte blanche for any changes. Sikh ceremonial swords or Wicca athame anyone?

wes

The Hijab 'controversy' that isn't

RTE's Education and Science Correspondent Emma O Kelly finds that the recent 'controversy' over the Hajib in schools is a media creation

In the midst of all the articles, opinion pieces and polls in newspapers and elsewhere about the wearing of the Hijab by pupils in schools here, one crucial point appears to be being lost: within the schools themselves, it is currently not an issue of any real concern.

In one way that's probably not so surprising. After all, for generations the Veil has played a central role in education here. Countless generations of Irish children have been educated in Irish schools by Irish women wearing veils. Some still are. The only difference now is that its pupils, not teachers, who are covering their heads, and they're not Catholic, they're Muslim.

In the schools where this is happening, it's no big deal. Where I have discussed the matter with schools, they tell me no permission was given to a particular pupil to wear the veil, but only because permission was never sought. These schools see it as a private matter, to do with tolerance and the right to religious expression.

I've discussed this matter with very few schools and that's because it's a non-issue. I have been to lots of schools, often specifically covering integration-related issues. I've attended numerous education conferences including those dealing with the challenges of integration.

In all these settings, one hears the long list of concerns schools have about catering for their increasingly diverse student cohort. It's a very long list and it usually begins with the shortage of English Language teachers. But so far, the Hijab has never, to my knowledge, featured on that list.

Click here for the rest of the article

Seems to be a non-issue this for the most part. The vast majority of schools don't seem to have any issue with this at all and the controversy seems to be more hype than anything.

Also, I should point out the number of children wearing the Hijab would be pretty small considering the number of Muslims in the country, which is very small. Now, this doesn't mean the matter should not be discussed, but the way some people are going on about it, you would think it was huge issue, with schools falling apart, because of it. A bit of perspective is in order imho.

BuffyBot

DinoBot wrote: »

So, would you think all schools should adopt similar approach to have the option for hijab and Burkas ?

If they feel it's needed, I see no particular problem with it. It's their uniform, and their school and they have to make choices appropriate to the make up of their student population.

DinoBot

BuffyBot wrote: »

If they feel it's needed, I see no particular problem with it. It's their uniform, and their school and they have to make choices appropriate to the make up of their student population.

What do you mean by "their" school ? Last time I checked schools belonged to the public. How far would you go for freedom of religious expression ? At what point should the line be drawn.

Should people be allowed to have full freedom under the banner of religious expression.

WES: Yeah, I know its not a big issue, I was approaching it more of a point of a discussion on religious expression and its place in our schools.

Nevyn

DinoBot wrote: »

What do you mean by "their" school ? Last time I checked schools belonged to the public.

They don't they are privately own but publically funded, you need to check the education acts.

DinoBot

Thaedydal wrote: »

They don't they are privately own but publically funded, you need to check the education acts.

I dont get your point here, seems a little pedantic. I think its misleading to say privately owned, I understand the whole idea of needing a patron under the Irish system but I wouldnt call that a private school then.

But Im okay amending my post to say the schools are "publically funded" rather than "belonged to the public"