Heard rumour

marlyman

man when is the bs politics going to stop on thid forum about this organistion and that organisation said this and that. im sick of logging onto the boards as a guy interested in shooting, guns and hunting and theres pages of the sh*t. Can we have another subforum for organisational chit chat where people can snipe at eachother and argue their point. that way everyone can blank it out who is not interested. and id say thats quite a few ........

meathstevie

I for one am not the least bit interested in seeing the verbatim records of the FCP meetings. To be quite honest I'm not interested of getting a to the letter record of negotiations, granted it could be quite nice to see positions shift and compromises being made. The only thing I'm interested in is results and and relevant updates being made public ( at least to the shooting community ) as important decisions are being made. So far this has been happening and personally I'm quite happy with the situation as is.

In the meantime I think we should be well aware that a fair few people are investing a good bit of their own time and resources into this proces and that so far the whole setup has been quite fruitfull.

Gunter Mauser

Meathstevie I totally agree, its the only way to keep things on track respecting the effort put into the sport by all concerned, in the end everyone benefits. Give it time.

Sparks

Clash wrote: »

Publishing stuff didn't help in that case.

Because it's not a quick fix. It's something you have to do continuously until people get used to going to the source for information.

Sparks

marlyman wrote: »

man when is the bs politics going to stop on thid forum about this organistion and that organisation said this and that. im sick of logging onto the boards as a guy interested in shooting, guns and hunting and theres pages of the sh*t. Can we have another subforum for organisational chit chat where people can snipe at eachother and argue their point. that way everyone can blank it out who is not interested. and id say thats quite a few ........

You missed the "Target Shooting" and the "Hunting" sub-forums and their "No Politics" rule, didn't ya?

bunny shooter

The representatives of the various shooting organisations involved in this panel are accountable to the members of their organisations.

I don't think this should be forgotten.

Who gave them the right to decide on things without consulation with the members of these organisations ?

This dictatorial attitude is not acceptable.

This thread and others of it's kind are drawing a lot of discussion and there are those attempting to quash the discussions with threats of the FCP collapsing.

I had doubts at the beginning of this venture whether this panel was nothing more than a PR exercise and the more I see the more I am convinced.

The secrecy of it stinks to high heavens.

I heard a rumour and I posted the content of it up here. I looked for feedback.

We got a document recently of all that's been agreed. Well believe me my local Super isn't working to that document ! :mad:

Not worth paper it's written on, cause legally the only way to reverse his decisions is through a ruling in Court. The legislation still says it's the Supers decision on my firearms licence/s refusal or renewal.

So bull****e doesn't baffle brains :mad:

bunny shooter

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So BS heard this rumour from a "reliable source" is this reliable source the same person who told him the story about the pistol list? If that is the case then BS has two strikes against his reliable source,and should be careful in beliving anything he says in the future.

For the record 2 x different sources

For the record there is no attempt to damage FCP or NARGC

All that I want is some confirmation or denial.

Personally if the NARGC are threatening to pull out as there is/are problems with Gardai and/or Justice then IMO fair dues to them ! The NARGC got us to the point where they DOJ even wanted to talk.

There is no point cowing down to them. Where has it got shooters in the past.

Court cases got us this far, not meetings !

bunny shooter

Clash wrote: »

I read some time ago, coincidentally enough a thread started by bunny shooter where he said something about a body on the FCP giving a list of pistols to the DoJ that could only be used here or something like that.

Everyone denied it strenuously and published information on this board to quash the rumour and yet it persisted.

Publishing stuff didn't help in that case.

Read it again there were admissions of a list/s of photos being given to DOJ

Clash

bunny shooter wrote: »

The representatives of the various shooting organisations involved in this panel are accountable to the members of their organisations.

I don't think this should be forgotten.

Who gave them the right to decide on things without consulation with the members of these organisations ?

You did by electing them to do a job.

This dictatorial attitude is not acceptable.

But your dictatorial attitude is?

This thread and others of it's kind are drawing a lot of discussion and there are those attempting to quash the discussions with threats of the FCP collapsing.

Rumour mongering is hardly conducive to good relations all round.

I had doubts at the beginning of this venture whether this panel was nothing more than a PR exercise and the more I see the more I am convinced.

The secrecy of it stinks to high heavens.

I heard a rumour and I posted the content of it up here. I looked for feedback.

When the first place you should have checked the rumour with is with the body central to that rumour. It's not as though Des Crofton hides his email address or doesn't answer his phone.

We got a document recently of all that's been agreed. Well believe me my local Super isn't working to that document ! :mad:

Not worth paper it's written on, cause legally the only way to reverse his decisions is through a ruling in Court. The legislation still says it's the Supers decision on my firearms licence/s refusal or renewal.

So bull****e doesn't baffle brains :mad:

I agree that there are Supers making it up as they go along, but their position in law is that they are only answerable to the courts. Yet the body that's done the most work in taking these cases to court on your behalf doesn't merit a quick email to ask them about the rumour or to alert them to it's existence?

Clash

bunny shooter wrote: »

Read it again there were admissions of a list/s of photos being given to DOJ

Not the list you were talking about or in the circumstances you described.

Quite like this thread really and every other one that you've started to denigrate the workings and membership of the FCP.

Clash

bunny shooter wrote: »

For the record 2 x different sources

For the record there is no attempt to damage FCP or NARGC

All that I want is some confirmation or denial.

Well then I suggest you get in touch with Des Crofton, which is where you should have started. While you're talking to him, you should tell him you're the person who started this rumour on boards and see what he says. Be sure and report back to us as to how you got on.

Court cases got us this far, not meetings !

The court cases haven't gone away you know. O'Leary v Maher was decided in April, and there's still some 70 odd cases according to Prime Time.

Vegeta

bunny shooter wrote: »

Court cases got us this far, not meetings !

The problem is bunny the DoJ set the rules and they could change them so they always win.

Sparks

bunny shooter wrote: »

This thread and others of it's kind are drawing a lot of discussion and there are those attempting to quash the discussions with threats of the FCP collapsing.

Those saying that do not have the authority to close the thread, nor are they threatening to; they are putting forward their point of view. Personally I don't agree with it, but then I don't agree with yours either - however the important thing is that noone - not them, and not you - has been censored.

I had doubts at the beginning of this venture whether this panel was nothing more than a PR exercise and the more I see the more I am convinced.

Actually, the more I see of it, the more I'm convinced it's the best thing to ever happen to shooting in Ireland.

I heard a rumour and I posted the content of it up here. I looked for feedback.

And you got it - you just didn't believe it. But there's not much that can be done about that

We got a document recently of all that's been agreed. Well believe me my local Super isn't working to that document ! :mad:

That would be normally thought of as "slow progress", not "no progress". Now if the Gardai weren't talking to people and admitting they had problem Superintendents out there, I'd probably be leaning towards your interpretation; but I've seen them do both with my own eyes. The gardai are civil servants. And like all civil service branches, they take time to change how they do things.

All that I want is some confirmation or denial.

But you've had the latter already, and since there's noone in here who can speak on behalf of the NARGC, you're going to have to go to them directly if what you've heard in here isn't good enough : nargc@iol.ie

Court cases got us this far, not meetings !

I keep hearing this, and I understand why, but it's wrong. Yes, court cases have been a necessary evil in the past, but I'm sick to death of us having to go through them, I'm certain that everyone bar the barristers are as well, and the FCP offers a far better path to a far more long-lasting solution. I've said it before and I'll say it again: You cannot use the judiciary as a stick to beat the legislative branch with. It just doesn't work (has everyone forgotten the original bin tax protests in Cork so fast?).

bunny shooter wrote: »

Read it again there were admissions of a list/s of photos being given to DOJ

As Clash said, not the same lists that you were on about and not under the same circumstances; and if you don't believe me, ask the head of the IPSA.

thehair

bunny shooter wrote: »

The representatives of the various shooting organisations involved in this panel are accountable to the members of their organisations.

I don't think this should be forgotten.

Who gave them the right to decide on things without consulation with the members of these organisations ?

This dictatorial attitude is not acceptable.

This thread and others of it's kind are drawing a lot of discussion and there are those attempting to quash the discussions with threats of the FCP collapsing.

I had doubts at the beginning of this venture whether this panel was nothing more than a PR exercise and the more I see the more I am convinced.

The secrecy of it stinks to high heavens.

I heard a rumour and I posted the content of it up here. I looked for feedback.

We got a document recently of all that's been agreed. Well believe me my local Super isn't working to that document ! :mad:

Not worth paper it's written on, cause legally the only way to reverse his decisions is through a ruling in Court. The legislation still says it's the Supers decision on my firearms licence/s refusal or renewal.

So bull****e doesn't baffle brains :mad:

well it feels like you are pissing against the wind steve:(

bunny shooter

"Well then I suggest you get in touch with Des Crofton, which is where you should have started."

Above is a quote from this thread post # 62 by Clash.

"This is a discussion forum, and I had asked the question because I could find no information on the website."

Above is a quote on a thread entitled "Identities of NRPAI Committee" posted on 21/10/04 by Clash.

Now people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones ! :pac:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=195295

post #11

Sparks

I was wondering how long it'd take someone to dig that one up

patbundy

well sparks you and i know if its printed on a pc it never goes away:D;)

bunny shooter

I am getting e-mails and voicemail messages from people over this from people who know my real identity on this forum !

Therefore, I am going to refrain from posting anything futher on this forum relating to the FCP !

Hope this makes those involved feel better :rolleyes:

Sparks

I don't particularly care what side of what argument you're on, but for the record and the attention of those responsible, pulling that kind of sh*t is unacceptable. Harassing people who post in here is why we had to make this forum anonymous in the first place, which is something that has its disadvantages. Trying to shut people up in this way is a step about thirty years in the wrong direction :mad:

bunny shooter

My absolute final word on the matter is .........................

For the record............................ !

My source on this matter is an NARGC member, who has no affiliation or involvement to/in any other shooting club/s or any other shooting organisation/s. He said it to me in a conversation and he didn't ask me to post it here. Nor did he know I was going to post it here.

bunny shooter

Mods would you consider closing this thread ?

tonysopprano

Before this thread is closed, can I point out the following.

In another recent thread regarding FCP, it was suggested that for instance that meetings held in January, the outcomes/updates/decisions be released as updates after the Feburary meeting.

Reading in March/April about decisions taken in October/November in ISD is not really the best way to keep members informed of what is potentially very important information for their sport

My 2cents

rrpc

That's what it might look like Tony, but in actual fact all the stuff released in March/April had only just been concluded.

It takes that much time it seems

Clash

bunny shooter wrote: »

"This is a discussion forum, and I had asked the question because I could find no information on the website."

Above is a quote on a thread entitled "Identities of NRPAI Committee" posted on 21/10/04 by Clash.

Now people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones ! :pac:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=195295

post #11

Ah the rashness of youth

Halcyon days indeed.