Team Sub Forums - Please have a look and a vote.

Dub13

If you are not aware we are having as debate about the need for Team Sub forums Here on the Forums request forum.

I will post a poll on this thread so we can get a feel for how the general soccer fans feel about this.

Sherifu

Yes

Good idea to have a poll.

Dub13

Yes

I will not sticky this for a while as I think people read over them.

_blank_

Yes

The Sub Forum Treaty Debate

As long as there is a Shelbourne one, and a Reading one, then I'd vote yes.

Seeing as there is zero possibility, then I'm voting no.

If people can't behave like adults, then they have no place posting on internet forums.

Team sub-forums will stifle discussion, as far as I'm concerned.

Xavi6

Yes

^^^ What he said. No vote from me.

_blank_

Yes

Xavi6 wrote: »

^^^ What he said. No vote from me.

Why do you want a Reading sub forum?

Xavi6

Yes

DesF wrote: »

Why do you want a Reading sub forum?

Swap Reading with City/Barcelona/Wycombe and you have my exact thoughts.

Death or Glory

We all love Leeds
We all love Leeds
We all love Leeds
We all love Leeds

Mr Alan

Yes

I personally think team sub forums would put an end to the contributions of a lot of the regular posters on here.

The whole point of this place, imo, is a communal forum with football fans discussing things with eachother, general football stuff as well as more specific club related things.

The superthreads do this well, somewhere for fans to talk about the particular club they follow, but also to discuss wit other clubs fans the goings on at their clubs.

People who cant handle that and abuse other clubs fans should just be ****ed out in my opinion.

If i wanted a fan site i would go to RAOTL, IrishKop or some such site. This site, for me at least, is not a fan site for a particular club but for football fans to communicate with eachother.

Im_No_Superman

Yes

It would aversely affect the main soccer fourm imo. So no for me.

jesus_thats_gre

Yes

No...

SectionF

Yes

No.
It's a forum. People should be exposed to radical new ideas and have their preconceptions challenged.

Bounty Hunter

Yes

No.

inclusive not exclusive etc yadda yadda yadda

vote No on the Lesbian treaty

LuckyLloyd

Yes

No.

Spud83

Yes

No for me. It will hurt the soccer forum, the "community" feel to the place, and I like discussing things with opposing fans you get a more balanced view and you can learn more and appreciate soccer and other teams better. All these things would be effected if team sub-forums were created.



intreseting thing to see here is that this seemed to have a good bit of support in the feedback/forums forum so I am wondering how many of the people who were posting in the other thread supporting this are actually banned from the soccer forum and are looking for away around the ban.

Kold

Yes

Not that I'm complaining about it or anything but I never really got why we (Spurs supporters) had our own forum and noone else did.

Sherifu

Yes

Kold wrote: »

Not that I'm complaining about it or anything but I never really got why we (Spurs supporters) had our own forum and noone else did.

To organise trips.

Dub13

Yes

I am gong to leave this open but don't forget to comment on the main thread about this Here.

_blank_

Yes

Sub-forums are for Sub-Humans who can't handle criticism of their team, and who aren't able to control themselves enough to ignore obvious trolls.

Pepe LeFrits

Cock, voted Yes by accident. Stupid Parkinsons!

Anyway, no to this. Not a good idea.

kryogen

Yes

no way

its nice to have a cross section of fans and different views, if there was sub forums for each team the soccer forum would die

_blank_

Yes

I have some questions for the Soccer Mods/Sports CMod/Admin.

What is the actual point of this thread and poll?

Will the views of the majority be used - the raw poll results, one way or the other?

It would be nice to know the Soccer Mods/Sports CMod/Admin preconceived thinking on the issue also, I'm sure it has been discussed in the Soccer Mod forum already, what were the outcomes of that discussion, and how will this thread affect those ideas which are already there?

Is there a Soccer Mod consensus on the way forward from here?

One idea I have is that mods who support any of the main contentious tems don't mod the users of their rivals. IE T4TF doesn't mod United users, PHB doesn't mod Liverpool, Kdjac doesn't mod Shels (:p). This would go some way to alleviating the perception of bias. If that means appointing more mods then so be it (this is not me angling for modship by the way, I couldn't care less who the mods are). I do feel this forum needs more mods. I can't remember the last time the Soccer Mod Quota was increased. Talla was inactive for ages before PHB came in, now he's gone for the last month.

It's all very well saying we have X Number of mods, but if they aren't around to act immediately on flashpoints, then there isn't really much point, the flaming starts goes on and on, until there are all this fallout.

Are Temp Mods an option, I know nothing about vBulletin.

I believe the "Off topic thread" has gone some way to creating a more "community feel" to the forum as a whole, I'd like to see the mods be more active in there, get to know their users as it were, because most of the time, in the superthreads, the posters will take a stance, and not back down. That is the nature of internet forums, and it can lead to a distorted view of individuals, ie, "ah yer man, he's only a Man Utd/Liverpool/eL/Rangers/Celtic muppet anyway, I don't like them, I don't like him".

For the mods, especially the mods of the Big 4, to say this doesn't affect them on some level, is laughable, imo. Liverpool fans have an inherent dislike of everything Man Uts-tinted. It's nature. And Vice Versa etc.

Now I address the users of the Superthreads.

Some people really need to cop on. Lads, just because somebody has a different view to you, be they fans of your team, or not, that DOES NOT MAKE THEM A MUPPET/SHÍT STIRRER/TROLL. Seriously. Not everyone agrees with you, to think they should makes you a muppet, imo.

Why do fans of United want a seperate forum? Are they too wrapped in cotton woll that they can't take criticism? What are the main bullet point reasons for the seperate United forum? To get away from Muppets? Ignore them, don't rise to the people you perceive as trolls. Put them on ignore. Part of the reason the Soccer forum is the second most used forum on Boards, after After Hours, is because, believe it or not, human beings like to have discussions about football. It appeals to our tribal nature. Of course you feel agrieved if someone says something against your tribe. Deal with it, in a rational manner, and reply accordingly. Argue your point in a mature fashion. Don't act the same way as those who have seemingly hurt you. Discussions can get heated, but throwing the troll accusation around does nobody any faours.

What you are looking for is a sterile forum, where the views of fans of other teams are not welcome. It tells me that you don't want to listen to criticism of your team. Why so insecure?

All of that can be said to Liverpool/Arsenal/Chelsea/eL/SPL fans too by the way, so come back down of your horses there ManU fans, I was simply using you as an example.

Now, fans of the "smaller" teams.

I enjoy the superthreads. Some very knowledgeable people in there. I would hate, hate for that volume of posters to be moved to another part of this forum. I wouldn't read it. There would be too much flicking between tabs from Sub forum to Sub forum.

Also, and this is most important in my eyes. Certain fans of other teams would be "unwelcome" in the specific team sub forums. This would kill the soccer forum and any sub forums of this nature.

Think about lads.

You really love the arguments, that's why you post here. If you want fan-only forums, go to Red Cafe, RAWK, or whatever other place is there specifically for your team. I don't think Boards is run on that ethos. It's a community, it always has been, and always should be.

To start fracturing the soccer forum is wrong.

Holy long post batman, but the Swiss-Turks match is on.

Sherifu

Yes

DesF wrote: »

Holy long post batman, but the Swiss-Turks match is on.

Goal!!!

_blank_

Yes

This thred was stickied too early, imo.

Dub13

Yes

I will address a few points made by Des as he asked for some mod input.

The point of this poll is it was felt that a lot of the regular soccer posters would not see the thread on the forums request forum.So we decided to put a poll on the soccer forum to get people who se the forums views.we like your guys input look on this as the first soccer 'focus group'.

As for will the views of the majority be used to be honest its not up to the soccer mods,this is a Admin decision the mods have a opinion and I am sure the Admins will take this on board when they are making up there minds.But this is were we get the 'on the ground' view.As for my own personal opinion I am against it and have around 20 posts on the request thread so I will not go into them again here.The Soccer Mod consensus would also be against this again a view made on the request thread.

I have to say Des I am not a fan of your idea of mods from one team not dealing with main contentious fans.I know in the past there have been clams of a bias but this is not true IMO.I deal with people the same no matter who they support,a tool/spammer/troll/drunk poster is the same in my eyes no matter who they support.I am sure most people are aware I am the Admin of Irishkop,I have to deal with loads of said Liverpool tool/spammer/troll/drunk posters on Irishkop so its nothing strange for me to ban Liverpool posters.

With regard the number of soccer mods,I was the most recently added mod maybe 6 weeks ago.I don't think there is an issue with numbers,I am not aware of anything that was left on the forum for a while because of a lack of mods.All the mods here are very active and all are very senior with I think 3 CatMods working on the one forum which I think is unprecedented on boards.

I am off now to watch the rest of the water Polo game that is the Swiss & Turks match,I will came back to this later.

Dave!

Yes

No need at all..... I voted no

Zaph

Yes

No from me. Individual sub-forums will detract massively from the main forum. People will tend to spend most of their time in their club's forum and more general threads in the main forum will get neglected as there'll be no-one around to debate issue or have a bit of craic.

_blank_

Yes

Dub13 wrote: »

I will address a few points made by Des as he asked for some mod input.

Thanks a lot.

Dub13 wrote: »

The point of this poll is it was felt that a lot of the regular soccer posters would not see the thread on the forums request forum.So we decided to put a poll on the soccer forum to get people who se the forums views.we like your guys input look on this as the first soccer 'focus group'.

Does this imply there will be more?

Dub13 wrote: »

As for will the views of the majority be used to be honest its not up to the soccer mods,this is a Admin decision the mods have a opinion and I am sure the Admins will take this on board when they are making up there minds. But this is were we get the 'on the ground' view.

But, this thread serves no real purpose then, in my opinion.

IF the "on the ground" consensus goes against the mod consensus, will the mods go to the admins with their own agenda, or with the views of the users?

Dub13 wrote: »

As for my own personal opinion I am against it and have around 20 posts on the request thread so I will not go into them again here.

With all due respect, and I use no malice or anything here, but I find that extremely disingenuous and dismissive. Fair play to you for taking the time to reply, but that request thread has a LOT of posts in it.

Dub13 wrote: »

The Soccer Mod consensus would also be against this again a view made on the request thread.

Fair enough, and judging by the votes so far in the poll, that holds up.

I ask again. If a majority of users go against this, what then?

Dub13 wrote: »

I have to say Des I am not a fan of your idea of mods from one team not dealing with main contentious fans.I know in the past there have been clams of a bias but this is not true IMO.I deal with people the same no matter who they support,a tool/spammer/troll/drunk poster is the same in my eyes no matter who they support.I am sure most people are aware I am the Admin of Irishkop,I have to deal with loads of said Liverpool tool/spammer/troll/drunk posters on Irishkop so its nothing strange for me to ban Liverpool posters.

Taken on board, and to be honest it was just something that I threw out there more so than a set in stone opinion of mine.

Dub13 wrote: »

With regard the number of soccer mods,I was the most recently added mod maybe 6 weeks ago.I don't think there is an issue with numbers,I am not aware of anything that was left on the forum for a while because of a lack of mods.All the mods here are very active and all are very senior with I think 3 CatMods working on the one forum which I think is unprecedented on boards.

Cat Mods are only Cat Mods in their own Cat, no?

*************

Some other thoughts.

If there is a "sizable majority", which there certainly seems to be, will the mods recommend some sort of accomodation scenario. I don't even know what that could be.

When a decision is made, will the issue be put to bed?

Is this thread for discussing all issues raised in that request thread, or just the particular issue of the sub forums? I explicitly refer to the current perma-ban situation of some posters. If this topic is not-allowed to be discussed, fair enough, I won't mention it again.

edit:/ thanks for unstickification, hmm, reported posts DO work in Soccer

Necronomicon

Yes

I haven't posted much on the issue, but I've thinking a lot about it and I'm finding myself siding more with the 'No' side.

Here are a few of my reasons, most of which have been said by others already:

• I think the diversity of views is what makes the forum so attractive and, while there is the odd bit of sniping (no harm in that either, football is a passionate sport) there are some excellent posters who are able to put on their neutral hat when talking about other teams.
  
• I've definitely gotten a wider variety of general knowledge from lurking in superthreads. I tend to go in to them when there aren't any new posts. We've got die hard fans of Scottish football, Spanish football, Italian football and Irish football. When I joined Boards I didn't know anything about EL football, but because of the enthusiasm here I got into it and started tagging along to City matches with friends from college.
  
• The community feel of the forum has increased since the introduction of the Off Topic thread, as Des touched on. The forum is better for it. Giving fans of teams their own forum would lead to more cliques within each fan-base and detract from the overall community atmosphere of the Soccer forum.

Possible alternatives? Well, maybe regulation of the Superthreads but I'm not sure how. I don't really agree with PHB's idea of having 4 different categories of threads because you'd end up with 4 superthreads and unless it was moderated constantly, wires would be crossed all the time. I look at the Arsenal and Villa threads as good examples of how a Superthread should be, but the simple fact is there are more United/Liverpool fans which inevitably leads to more chat.

It's a tough one, because when the Liverpool thread was out of commission and there were separate thread for everything the place was a bit too packed. So while they may be flawed, they are very necessary. The only concrete suggestion I have is that running commentary should not be allowed in the thread on a match day.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Yes

It was not unstuck as a result of a reported post. It was on the back of what you said in the previous post. And you are welcome.

All this is is to get an idea of what the soccer forum users think. We will not recommend or block anything on the back of it but I am sure it will be important to the Admins to see what the people who use the forum but do not go outside of this forum think.

_blank_

Yes

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

It was not unstuck as a result of a reported post. It was on the back of what you said in the previous post. And you are welcome.

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

All this is is to get an idea of what the soccer forum users think. We will not recommend or block anything on the back of it but I am sure it will be important to the Admins to see what the people who use the forum but do not go outside of this forum think.

I wonder how many people are like that.

I know I never look at the Forums forum anyway.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Yes

Neither do I and if it was not for this post I would not have gone and had a look, I do peer around other forums but that is not one that I frequent.

leninbenjamin

I voted yes an hour ago. The Soccer forum is becoming very unwieldy, the super-threads are becoming more and more hard to follow and the converstaion seems to change direction after about 5 or 6 posts on average, and in general many discussions die an early death as they drop off the main page.

However, I've changed my mind, at least on the fan forums bit. what makes this forum successful is the fan interaction between various sides, and team sub forums could compromise on this.

however i think there is a serious need to bring a more order to the forum, and to split the main forum into a couple of forums doesn't seem a bad idea; we get more traffic in the general forum than some categories it seems and I actually think this could be expanded upon given the correct infrastructure.

perhaps we should have forums for the major competitions? like the premier league, europe, international football perhaps? or perhaps discussion type categories, one sub for transfer discussion only, one forum for match threads? either way i think a solution to divide up the forum and make it a more conducive of discussion and better functioning, while at the same time maintaining the general cross-club appeal, can be found. sure we've so many users here one of us is bound to come up with a decent idea if we choose this direction.

~Rebel~

Yes

Out and out NO from me. I've tried going on a lot of football forum's and this one is consistently the best. More interaction between fans of different teams, more 'devils advocate' styled posts in team threads and because of everyone being heaped together a lot of the vitriol between teams is lessened (not all the time obviously, but theres a lot less of it relative to any other forum i've seen).

I know what people are saying about it being too cluttered, but thats what i love about it - its a one stop shop. On other sites where i have to go between team, general, international, spanish, italian etc etc sub forums its just tedious, i prefer all being up here together. Whatever is interesting keeps attention. As a rule i prefer posting when i know someone is gonna post again on the topic pretty soon, makes it more conversation like. with subforums i could see a lot mroe topics being generated and a lower and less constant rate of replies.

Don't break us up, keep us as one big happy family!

Dub13

Yes

DesF wrote: »

Thanks a lot.Does this imply there will be more?

It was just a off the cuff remark no plans for more but I think it shows we will listen to peoples views.

DesF wrote: »

But, this thread serves no real purpose then, in my opinion.

IF the "on the ground" consensus goes against the mod consensus, will the mods go to the admins with their own agenda, or with the views of the users?

The thing is the Mods have made our views known about this issue to the Admins,at the end of the day its an Admin decision and whatever they come up with we will all have to live with mods and users.

DesF wrote: »

With all due respect, and I use no malice or anything here, but I find that extremely disingenuous and dismissive. Fair play to you for taking the time to reply, but that request thread has a LOT of posts in it.

I am sorry if it came across as disingenuous and dismissive it was not ment to be,two things made me not post my views on this thread.1)I was watching the water polo game and 2)I did not want to boar people with them again if they are already after reading them on the other thread.

For the record.I think its a bad idea,as said it will dilute the soccer forum.

DesF wrote: »

Fair enough, and judging by the votes so far in the poll, that holds up..

I ask again. If a majority of users go against this, what then?

Again this is not up to us this is an Admin call ether way.

DesF wrote: »

Taken on board, and to be honest it was just something that I threw out there more so than a set in stone opinion of mine.

Your feedback was appreciated.

DesF wrote: »

Cat Mods are only Cat Mods in their own Cat, no?.

Yes of course,what I meant by that comment was,Its my view that CatMods tend to be on line alto simple due to the fact they have so many forums to look after.I know I would not have taken on the role of a CMod if I could not dedicate a good chunk of time to been on line.This was in response to the suggestion that we may need more mods,my point been we have plenty of mods 3 been Cmods who would tend IMO to be on line alot.


*************

Some other thoughts.

DesF wrote: »

If there is a "sizable majority", which there certainly seems to be, will the mods recommend some sort of accomodation scenario. I don't even know what that could be.?.

I am sure we would,a good idea is a good idea.

DesF wrote: »

When a decision is made, will the issue be put to bed?

I would like to think whatever happens this time it will put an end to this as it seems every few months this pops up.

DesF wrote: »

Is this thread for discussing all issues raised in that request thread, or just the particular issue of the sub forums? I explicitly refer to the current perma-ban situation of some posters. If this topic is not-allowed to be discussed, fair enough, I won't mention it again.

I would say its best to just use this thread for team sub forums as its such a big 'issue' and gets a lot of posts.But feel free to discuss the rules on other threads as I welcome feedback good and bad.

ShoulderChip

Yes

People wont even post in the chelsea thread as it is.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055305123

Eirebear

Yes

Would there be a Rangers Subforum? For me and .........me?:eek:

_blank_

Yes

Eirebear wrote: »

Would there be a Rangers Subforum? For me and .........me?:eek:

I'd join you.

pvt.joker

Xavi6 wrote: »

Swap Reading with City/Barcelona/Wycombe and you have my exact thoughts.

Whats the point in creating sub forums if they'll get no traffic.

If there would be traffic in City/Barcelona/Wycombe forums, then Im all for them

delija_sever029

Yes,some bigger fan groups would be easier organised and let rest of forum out of threads about their team everyday more calm.On the other hand maybe it wouldnt be fair coz everyone can ask to get subforum for his own team.Maybe it would be fair to have some pool and vote what subforums we want and clubs with most fans should get a subforum

Keano

Yes

I would like to see a championship thread and league 1 thread thats enough for me.

pvt.joker

It a big YES for me. The soccer forum is way too restricted at the minute, everything gets lobbed into the superthreads and it can be impossible to find any cohesive discusssion on seperate topics when they're all jammed into the one thread.

_blank_

Yes

pvt.joker wrote: »

Whats the point in creating sub forums if they'll get no traffic.

If there would be traffic in City/Barcelona/Wycombe forums, then Im all for them

Answer my points as to why the sub forums are needed.

Because at the moment popular opinion, the opinion of the mods, and I'd suggest, ultimately, the opinion of the Admins will be swayed by them.

The "Yes" people need to start trying to convince others I think.

Keano A Legend wrote: »

I would like to see a championship thread and league 1 thread thats enough for me.

erm...start them then.

Mr Alan

Yes

I agree virtually 100% with PHBs posts in the other thread.

The way to do it i reckon is for daily/****e topics....... ie Rafas goatee/linked with blah blah/me fancying Torres/Tusky being the ultimate pessimist/what striker Utd fans would want/is dong there only to sell jerseys etc etc to go into the superthreads....then for the larger stories.....Ronaldo to Real Madrid/Barry to Liverpool etc to have their own thread. It is quite obvious the topics that merit their own thread.

This would make the superthreads much easier to follow as its the controversial ones like the later ones i mentioned that drive the heated discussion and quickley build up pages and pages of discussion.

Again, the sub forums idea is ridiculous, it was ridiculous when Liverpool fans wanted it, and its ridiculous now.

Eirebear

Yes

DesF wrote: »

I'd join you.

Shhhh! You'll wake ONYD up.......:p

As for the Sub-Forums a big and loud NO from me.

I use this forum BECAUSE of the cross section of fans.

Where else will you get Eircom League Fans, SPL fans, Premiership fans and whatever else there is out there all in one place?
Boards.ie should be embracing that rather than talking about splitting it up.

I'm sure everyone has their own forums dedicated to the team they support if thats the kind of thing they want, but this one is a breath of fresh air when it comes to guaging other supporters opinions and ideas.

Yes, arguments happen but thats life, i moderate a fairly large Rangers forum, and some of the arguments on there are a lot more serious than the ones you see on here.

Xavi6

Yes

Eirebear wrote: »

Shhhh! You'll wake ONYD up.......:p

As for the Sub-Forums a big and loud NO from me.

I use this forum BECAUSE of the cross section of fans.

Where else will you get Eircom League Fans, SPL fans, Premiership fans and whatever else there is out there all in one place?
Boards.ie should be embracing that rather than talking about splitting it up.

I'm sure everyone has their own forums dedicated to the team they support if thats the kind of thing they want, but this one is a breath of fresh air when it comes to guaging other supporters opinions and ideas.

Yes, arguments happen but thats life, i moderate a fairly large Rangers forum, and some of the arguments on there are a lot more serious than the ones you see on here.

*Goes off to find said forum and register as OhNoYouDidnt*

bohsman

I dont think theres much difference between throwing everything into a sticky and throwing everything into a subforum. Its going to be two less threads on the 1st page of the soccer foum.

pvt.joker

bohsman wrote: »

I dont think theres much difference between throwing everything into a sticky and throwing everything into a subforum. Its going to be two less threads on the 1st page of the soccer foum.

exactly.

_blank_

Yes

DesF wrote: »

Answer my points as to why the sub forums are needed.

Because at the moment popular opinion, the opinion of the mods, and I'd suggest, ultimately, the opinion of the Admins will be swayed by them.

The "Yes" people need to start trying to convince others I think.

pvt.joker wrote: »

exactly.

Come on, that all you got?

leninbenjamin

DesF wrote: »

Come on, that all you got?

well in fairness I did make this post, which nobody engaged with. from the other threads joker and I share the same (or at least a similar) opinion on this...

pvt.joker

DesF wrote: »

Come on, that all you got?

There's a massive thread over on sys->forums that has all of the arguments outlined in it.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055281186


I think that the soccer forum has grown beyond it's capability.
The number of posts on it and judging by the amount of people looking for access to soccer also, it's only going to get worse.
It was fine and has been excellent up until a few months ago but it's way too cluttered, in particular the superthreads. I have read what PHB proposed to do with the superthreads...i.e create more superthreads per team (matches/transfers/etc) and that will only make the forum more cluttered.

In my opinion, a case should be made for each sub forum on its own merits. The united fans have made a case for one in sys->forums. If Liverpool fans want one, they can make a case too, as can City/Leeds/Reading/Rangers/Wycombe/Shels fans. The admins will then decide if each sub-forum will have sufficient traffic to merit its own sub forum.