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Sins of the Father

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  • 11-06-2008 7:45pm
    #1
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭


    From the Christians only "Sins of the father" thread....
    BrianCalgary wrote: »
    Exodus 20
    5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.

    What I love about this is a punishment lasts only 4 generations whereas the blessing for 1,000.

    I look at it more as the effects of sin stretch to the 4th generation. If my Dad sins I will suffer the effects of that sin as will my son and my grandson. If I come to trust in teh Lord, the effects get minimized and then blessed to the 1,000th generation.

    I know we aren't allowed to post on the thread in Christianity, but Brian's quote really disturbs me so I thought I would post here.

    What he loves about this is that only 4 generations of innocent people get punished for something they did not do, and then they wonder why we have issues with their religion? I think the 1000 generations of reward is irrelevant when innocents are being punished.

    I have to say I have a problem with people being punished fro crimes or sins they did not commit. It is not something I think a state should do, let alone an all powerful magical creature.

    MrP


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    #2
    Thomas_S_Hunterson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,151 ✭✭✭Thomas_S_Hunterson


    Silly christians eh?;)

    What can ya do


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    #3
    fatmammycat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    Why would it disturb you? It's just a load of claptrap. That's like being disturbed by stories of trolls who live under the bridge. Honestly, I never understand why atheists and agnostics get so upset by something a christian believe in, unless it greatly affects your life in some way. I'm not tying to be sarcastic either. It's nonsense, so let them believe in it all they like. If Brian gets the yippies because-in his mind- a punishment of innocents only last four generation then Brian's got plenty to occupy himself with, but it shouldn't disturb you.


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    #4
    growler
    Registered Users Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭growler


    MrPudding wrote: »
    From the Christians only "Sins of the father" thread....



    I know we aren't allowed to post on the thread in Christianity, but Brian's quote really disturbs me so I thought I would post here.

    What he loves about this is that only 4 generations of innocent people get punished for something they did not do, and then they wonder why we have issues with their religion? I think the 1000 generations of reward is irrelevant when innocents are being punished.



    MrP


    i can see a lot of problems with god actually implementing this tbh, it might have sounded good at the time but the practicalities of implementing it fully are fairly scary, he's going to need some decent CRM systems to keep proper track of a 1000 generations, data hell, if you pardon the pun.


    On the other hand it is pretty good marketing (big carrot v's relatively small and ill-defined stick approach) for those truly worried about the potential ramifications of very very very future generations of their offspring, not many of us take that kind of big picture view of the world and i think god should be appluaded for his foresight , and his encouragement of others to think of the future.

    To be fair, 1000 generations is a tad excessive, fair enough 4 or 5 so that every time you get a puncture / mugged / root canal, you can refer to the genes reunited site and assuredly lay the blame at the feet of great great great grandad's whoring during the 1730's in west kerry but just a few hundred years down the line you'll be there looking at your burnt down space-house shaking your fist at the sky and shouting "why me?" at the heavens, blissfully unaware of the repercussions of the fateful dalliance in dingle.

    sucks really.


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    #5
    bus77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,313 ✭✭✭bus77


    Look at it more abstractly. It says if you ''follow the commandments'' at the very end. Following that path, those rules, is a good thing to Christians. Think of it as being a good citizen these days, dont do drugs, dont commit crime. If you do, what happens to the generations that come after you?


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    #6
    iUseVi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭iUseVi


    Disturbed me too. But what ya going to do about it? :eek:


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    #7
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    fatmammycat wrote: »
    Why would it disturb you? It's just a load of claptrap. That's like being disturbed by stories of trolls who live under the bridge. Honestly, I never understand why atheists and agnostics get so upset by something a christian believe in, unless it greatly affects your life in some way.
    Newsflash. These people live amongst us. It disturbs me because, whilst the god punishing people might be clap trap the people that believe it are as real as you and I and they really really believe this stuff.

    I am not scared by the fact that he believes the bible or some mythical god creature. I am scared that he is happy for himself, his kids, his grandkids and great grandkids to be punished for something his father did.

    If that is how he feels about his own family imagine how little regard he must have fro other.

    MrP


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    #8
    Thomas_S_Hunterson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,151 ✭✭✭Thomas_S_Hunterson


    It's probably best that we can't respond.

    Things would get nasty.


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    #9
    fatmammycat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    I know, but there's nothing you can do with people like him. It's like chalk and cheese.


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    #10
    BrianCalgary
    Registered Users Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭BrianCalgary


    MrPudding wrote: »
    From the Christians only "Sins of the father" thread....



    I know we aren't allowed to post on the thread in Christianity, but Brian's quote really disturbs me so I thought I would post here.

    What he loves about this is that only 4 generations of innocent people get punished for something they did not do, and then they wonder why we have issues with their religion? I think the 1000 generations of reward is irrelevant when innocents are being punished.

    I have to say I have a problem with people being punished fro crimes or sins they did not commit. It is not something I think a state should do, let alone an all powerful magical creature.

    MrP

    And Mr P what disturbs me is that you didn't read the whole post and instead focused on one line.

    To reiterate and expand
    If you are a drunk and beat your wife, you need to understand that your actions are going to affect down to the fourth generation. God is not meting out the punishment, you are because of your actions.

    If you on the other hand accept Christ and live your life according to His ways your descendants to the 1,000th generation will be blessed.

    As I have learned though is that there are many people out there who think that they have no blame in their life and that anything bad that happens has to be somone elses fault and that there is nothing you can do about your actions.

    So if you wish to set up blessings for your offspring and theirs you now are aware of how that is done.


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    #11
    BrianCalgary
    Registered Users Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭BrianCalgary


    MrPudding wrote: »
    Newsflash. These people live amongst us. It disturbs me because, whilst the god punishing people might be clap trap the people that believe it are as real as you and I and they really really believe this stuff.

    I am not scared by the fact that he believes the bible or some mythical god creature. I am scared that he is happy for himself, his kids, his grandkids and great grandkids to be punished for something his father did.

    If that is how he feels about his own family imagine how little regard he must have fro other.

    MrP


    And Mr P this certainly follows slander against both myself and my Dad.:mad:


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    #12
    growler
    Registered Users Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭growler


    BrianCalgary wrote: »
    As I have learned though is that there are many people out there who think that they have no blame in their life and that anything bad that happens has to be somone elses fault and that there is nothing you can do about your actions.
    .

    and from you're point of view, they'd be right or potentially right , as the bad things to happen to them may be a result of your vindictive god's punishment for the sins of their forebears...

    :confused:


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    #13
    BrianCalgary
    Registered Users Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭BrianCalgary


    growler wrote: »
    and from you're point of view, they'd be right or potentially right , as the bad things to happen to them may be a result of your vindictive god's punishment for the sins of their forebears...

    :confused:

    At any point in time a person could easily come to God and accept the gift He offers and be free from the consequnces of their fathers action.

    I see this happen many times. Where a person is dogged by their upbringing and are suffering. They then come to God and their life turns around as God blesses them.


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    #14
    fatmammycat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    Brian, I'n not going to be rude to you, but I don't believe in your version of the world, I doubt anyone here in this particular forum does. So you can surely see how people might view your ideas with something less than respect. I don't think Mr P slandered you at all, he just find it very hard to understand your beliefs, like me. Even assuming a god existed, if he was was all loving and all knowing he wouldn't hold the innocents of the world responsible for a past generation's actions. he wouldn't make them suffer until they 'turned to him' and if he did, that's not the sort of god most people would find tolerable. A bullying vindictive petulant deity? No thanks.


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    #15
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Way to go lads.

    You know you shouldn't post in those threads on the Christianity forum that are designated Christian only, so you cut and paste from them into this forum to see if you can suck any of the Christians in, even though the subject has nothing to do with Atheism or Agnosticism.

    Well done, it worked.


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    #16
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    PDN wrote: »
    Way to go lads.

    You know you shouldn't post in those threads on the Christianity forum that are designated Christian only, so you cut and paste from them into this forum to see if you can suck any of the Christians in, even though the subject has nothing to do with Atheism or Agnosticism.

    Well done, it worked.
    In my defence, I find this attitude of innocents being punished so abhorrent I really wanted to discuss it. What would you suggest I do? I suppose I suppose I could have labelled it "atheists only" but I don't like to do that.

    MrP


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    #17
    Mena
    Registered Users Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭Mena


    PDN wrote: »
    Way to go lads.

    You know you shouldn't post in those threads on the Christianity forum that are designated Christian only, so you cut and paste from them into this forum to see if you can suck any of the Christians in, even though the subject has nothing to do with Atheism or Agnosticism.

    Well done, it worked.

    Nobody asked you lot to come in here. The OP's wishes with respect to Christians only was respected.


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    #18
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    BrianCalgary wrote: »
    And Mr P what disturbs me is that you didn't read the whole post and instead focused on one line.
    I did read the whole post. I still found it distasteful.
    BrianCalgary wrote: »
    To reiterate and expand
    If you are a drunk and beat your wife, you need to understand that your actions are going to affect down to the fourth generation. God is not meting out the punishment, you are because of your actions.
    Why down to the forth generation? Why not the 2 or the 10 or maybe the 15th. What if my wife left me and married a good man but I continued to sin? How then are my descendents punished?
    BrianCalgary wrote: »
    If you on the other hand accept Christ and live your life according to His ways your descendants to the 1,000th generation will be blessed.
    I do not accept god or christ, but I live a good life. My kids appear to be doing just fine thank you very much.
    BrianCalgary wrote: »
    As I have learned though is that there are many people out there who think that they have no blame in their life and that anything bad that happens has to be somone elses fault and that there is nothing you can do about your actions.
    Well, if you preach that people are punished for the sins of their father is it any wonder than some might think there problems are the result someone else's actions.
    BrianCalgary wrote: »
    And Mr P this certainly follows slander against both myself and my Dad.:mad:
    Wow, it seems that you are almost as easy to annoy as your petty vindictive god.
    BrianCalgary wrote: »
    At any point in time a person could easily come to God and accept the gift He offers and be free from the consequnces of their fathers action.'
    But why should there be any consequences from his fathers actions?

    BrianCalgary wrote: »
    I see this happen many times. Where a person is dogged by their upbringing and are suffering. They then come to God and their life turns around as God blesses them.
    I have seen many cases where the person did not come to god and their life turned around, my own for example. So what is your point?


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    #19
    Thomas_S_Hunterson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,151 ✭✭✭Thomas_S_Hunterson


    PDN wrote: »
    Way to go lads.

    You know you shouldn't post in those threads on the Christianity forum that are designated Christian only, so you cut and paste from them into this forum to see if you can suck any of the Christians in, even though the subject has nothing to do with Atheism or Agnosticism.

    Well done, it worked.

    We lure them in and rip the **** out of them because they're different!:p


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    #20
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Only getting to this...

    Closed - for more than one reason, but the main one being this is not a forum to gripe about quotes from Christians in the other forum.


This discussion has been closed.
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