Ireland A v USA

davyjose

marco_polo wrote: »

Final score Ire 46 - USA 9

Wow, USA must be Shi-hiiiit!!!!

So much for that dodgy movie they're making.

marco_polo

davyjose wrote: »

Wow, USA must be Shi-hiiiit!!!!

So much for that dodgy movie they're making.

Ah they we a tough side to break down, very physical but they never really looked like scoring a try. Wasn't much in it after about an hour, but they tired dramatically near the end.

They may have to call in Sylvester Stalone to get them out of this mess. I remember he had great hands in Escape to Victory :cool:.

Crash

Generally what I've found watching USA teams, and some of the university teams that have come over and played trinity, is that they usually excel and certain set pieces, and are physically in top shape, however give em a ball in loose play and they generally just try and put the foot down, little concept of how to open up a defence, very one dimensional.

That close enough to what happened tonight?

Amazotheamazing

crash_000 wrote: »

Generally what I've found watching USA teams, and some of the university teams that have come over and played trinity, is that they usually excel and certain set pieces, and are physically in top shape, however give em a ball in loose play and they generally just try and put the foot down, little concept of how to open up a defence, very one dimensional.

That close enough to what happened tonight?

Yeah, but now they've Scott Johnson coaching them and he knows how to bring on a players skills levels.

Considering some were saying Sexton and O'Leary should be in the Ireland squad, this game was a rude awakening, both have some distance to go.

RuggieBear

by the sound of it i'm glad i didn't stay up for it.

d-gal

Very disappointing game, break down was terrible. here is how i rated it.

Healy - good in the scrum, came in and out of the game, 1 or 2 carries
Fogarty - average, nothing special at all, scrum good, lineout decent
Ross - did the basics well, need to see him a bit more
Casey - disappointing from the captain, poor game and never made the rucks
Caldwell - very mobile, good runs and good hits
Best - came into it in the 2nd half, usual aggression and big hits, 2 good tries
O'Connor - 1 or 2 turnovers and some big hits, too agressive tho starting a few scuffles so taken off after 50.
Wilson - form coming back, controlled scrum and some good breaks, came into the line and played a part in a lot of the tries
O'Leary - rude awakening for hm, worst display, too used to having perfect ball from the munster pack
Sexton - disappointing, o'leary didn't help but seemed he let the pressure get to him, very hot and cold
Tuohy - decent but did not get much ball, defended well
Earls - great performance, made the 1st try and defended brilliantly, fantastic prospect for ireland
Lewis - regaining form, scored 1st try and made some nice breaks
McCrea - very little ball to work with but did everything right
Hurley - solid in defence and made one magical break from his own 22, one who should have gone with the first team

Cronin - made a decent impact when he came on but faded afterwards, helped well in Best try
Ryan - decent impact, solid in defense and a couple of carries
Murphy - changed the game when he came on, upped the tempo and called the shots, neat lil try and a must start against the saxons
Pollock - good game, solid defense and nice hands to open some space, backrow looks good for ireland

Others were on too little to rate although keatley did land a sweet conversion at the end

There ye have it, bring on England

MikeHoncho

d-gal wrote: »

Hurley - solid in defence and made one magical break from his own 22, one who should have gone with the first team

Eh who would you drop for him.

Kearney - No
Murphy - No
Dempsey - No

Amazotheamazing

Hurley also messed up the one high ball he contested under pressure. I'll stick with Kearney for now.

dc69

MikeHoncho wrote: »

Eh who would you drop for him.

Kearney - No
Murphy - No
Dempsey - No

he really is screwed,look at the players in front of him that can play full back

all above you mentioned and fitzgerald but whenever I have seen hurley he has been muck,his hands are dreadfull for a full back and his jumps are awfully mistimed.He is 24 so as far as im concerned he aint gona get much better.

Keith Earls I have always looked out for,he was really good a few years ago and still is.Munster will be very foolish not to introduce him next year for most matches.


for example hurley is 24,kearney is 22.Kearney has alot more experience.

Fitzgerald and Earls are exactly the same age,look at the experience diference.

Joke tbh.

irishbucsfan

MikeHoncho wrote: »

Eh who would you drop for him.

Kearney - No
Murphy - No
Dempsey - No

Two words...

Gavin Duffy

dc69

from what I have seen of both I wouldnt drop duffy for Hurley at all.What good is a fullback who cant jump and catch the ball,at least with duffy he might catch it.

Amazotheamazing

Harsh on Hurley dc69, if Fitz had made a break like his last night for the A's you'd be demanding he got called up to the senior squad.

Hurley has just played too little top level rugby to really judge him, he's very good going forward, just needs to tighten up his timing.

dc69

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Harsh on Hurley dc69, if Fitz had made a break like his last night for the A's you'd be demanding he got called up to the senior squad.

Hurley has just played too little top level rugby to really judge him, he's very good going forward, just needs to tighten up his timing.

Im harsh on him because I dont think he is good enough and too old that we will see a major improvement.Fitz is a very competent full back though i.e defending.The key to the position is defence and being good in the air,anything after that is a bonus,be it line breaks etc.

Earls looked top class and sexton and O'Leary,we know they are good,they just didnt do it last night.

There are a number of people who should be called up but I think they are better staying where they are.They wont play in the tests in Ireland realistically,so no point in bringing them in and not playing.

Stev_o

Murphy the future SH then if Reddan crashes and burns under too much work load from Wasps? Iv always rated him since he moved to Leicester sadly they didnt rate him dunno why he had all the skills and was a great player to have maybe they love Harry Ellis too much to have any other SH. Have to be impressed on his game management skills he really turned the game for us in upping the tempo and probably the best passer out of every SH there is available for Ireland.

irishbucsfan

dc69 wrote: »

Im harsh on him because I dont think he is good enough and too old that we will see a major improvement.Fitz is a very competent full back though i.e defending.The key to the position is defence and being good in the air,anything after that is a bonus,be it line breaks etc.

Earls looked top class and sexton and O'Leary,we know they are good,they just didnt do it last night.

There are a number of people who should be called up but I think they are better staying where they are.They wont play in the tests in Ireland realistically,so no point in bringing them in and not playing.

While I agree Fitzgerald is a better player than Hurley... he is injured right? And the team took the decision to bring Ferris down to New Zealand but left Hurley behind, when it would have been a good experience for him to train with the Irish backs.

And while the game time is good over at the Churchill Cup, I'd imagine the time spent in New Zealand training with the senior squad is probably more benficial to the players.

I agree that O'Leary was poor last night and Sexton didnt seem great but I think complaints about their performance are a little unfair. The Americans came out last night and played extremely hard, any ruck ball was contested violently and the ball coming back to O'Leary was tough to deal with. And from there, Sexton was getting pretty poor ball from O'Leary as well, I thought Sexton was extremely good running the back line and he got them moving very well. His kicking was a worry though

dc69

Did anyone else apart from me think the Americans were overly physical last night.I know its rugby but there is a difference between the all blacks or SA being physical because they know how to tackle(no tana jokes),where as the americans are just dangerous at it.

Yesterday sexton was absolutely hammered with a tackle.Its like they realise they have no chance of winning,so when the back line are set one american(usually a foward) will run and dump a player even when he knows the ball will be passed before he makes contact.they did this a number of times last night,hitting players without the ball.

I hope some of those americans get absolutely nailed at some stage cause they deserve it,the aim of rugby is not to hurt people and it seemed to me that,that was exactly what some of the yanks yesterday were out to do imo.

It seems they play the game in the spirit that they hammer a player and start giving high fives all around even when a try is conceeded in the proccess.The idea being " we wont win,so we will hurt them"

That was my opinion anyway.

Sangre

watched that in an american bar with an american football team. good fun, certainly more enjoyable than watching the nz match with a kiwi last week.

trout

dc69 wrote: »

Did anyone else apart from me think the Americans were overly physical last night ?

No more than Neil Best was ... he dropped his shoulder into several tackles, notably on Clever, and was part of more than one blood sub, if memory serves.

I've played against college and social teams in the US, they were similar ... lacking somewhat in skill and nous, but very aggressive and physical. In fairness, they played each other the same way ... hard & fair. I didn't see any great complaints from the Eagles players when they came out the worst in contact.

I wonder if the Gridiron game has an influence on US Rugby, as there is bound to be some cross-over of players/coaches/attitude.

Certainly, in the loose and with ball in hand, the Eagles looked less than impressive ... but in the tight, they were well up for the confrontations ... and like it or not, that's a big part of the modern game. It also seems to be part of the mindset for nations where the game is still developing, like Georgia and Romania ... remember the RWC ?

I personally didn't think the Americans were dirty, just aggressive ... but I can see where you're coming from.

I'd like to see the Eagles versus Italy ... there would be great support for that from the Italian-American community, and the Italians would be more than comfortable with the in-yer-face gristle and grind. Might even be a good game!

Rattlehead_ie

From what Ive seen from playing with Hurley at a junior level and watching him dev over the last couple of years. All he needs is encouragement and the opertuinity to play at a senior level. Since been given that (at a provincial level) by kidney over the last yr he has grown and developed much faster and much better than the likes of Duffy, maybe not as much as Fitz but certainly give him the chance and dont hang him before he gets 2 or 3 games under his belt at "A"s.

dc69

Every year in the nfl,their are players that dont make it,that are very talented and can run the 100m in 10 seconds.

I dont understand why the eagles dont get these guys.Wide recievers would make great wingers and running backs would make brilliant fullbacks in rugby.

Just seems stupid to me as these players would be alot better than what they currently have.

They basically have every position in rugby covered by nfl rejects,who would probably be better than most rugby players.

Rattlehead_ie

but man its a different sport. The guy who kicks a ball in NFL what else does he do...................nothing, guy who runs 100 miles and hour............ runs 100 miles an hour, their roles are v limited in comparison to what a modern day rugby player has to do or play. American footie is also a v stagnent (sp?) game it stop starts every cpl of mins, I know these guys are fit, but I dont think they are 80 mins fit??(maybe they are, thats a question)

dc69

Imo nfl backs would be more than fit enough and good enough to play rugby

Your telling me,this guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2tY0c7d0Ek&feature=related

and more like him,would be able to play in the backline.He makes any rugby player on the planet look slow.

They make rugby fullbacks look like jokes.

The guy who kicks the ball couldnt play.

You would have no out half,scrum half,hooker.

Locks,doubtfull

The rest could all be adapted.

Crash

Thats the reason a lot of American footballers switch over actually. Talking to a few guys who were forwards in an American team a while back, they switched a while back because as a blocker in NFL they would never see the ball, which began to not appeal to them. In rugby they get a strong chance to be a part of every game, as well as the set pieces.

edit: though dc69, while i'd say that guy is an AMAZING runner, it also shows the difference in defense between American football and rugby - those players are built and taught how to tackle head on and at great speed, the moment any serious lateral movement comes in they crumble terrible.

Amazotheamazing

US rugby already announced plans to target NFL players who didn't make the grade, around the same time they hired Melville. Huge number of players leave college every year and never play serious football again, if the US can convert even a small percentage they'll have some serious talent to work with.

Of course, there's two obvious problems, one is the different set of skills. funnily enough I don't think this insurmountable, NFL guys are talented athletes already, it's akin to seeing top level GAA footballers try make in Aussie Rules.

The second, more pressing one, is the lack of a serious pro league in America. They need crowds coming weekly and of course, players playing at a higher level.

dc69

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

US rugby already announced plans to target NFL players who didn't make the grade, around the same time they hired Melville. Huge number of players leave college every year and never play serious football again, if the US can convert even a small percentage they'll have some serious talent to work with.

Of course, there's two obvious problems, one is the different set of skills. funnily enough I don't think this insurmountable, NFL guys are talented athletes already, it's akin to seeing top level GAA footballers try make in Aussie Rules.

The second, more pressing one, is the lack of a serious pro league in America. They need crowds coming weekly and of course, players playing at a higher level.

If you are a poor club,and are in need of some backs all you have to do is target them at the ages of up to 21,they would learn the skills I think.

Its actually a scary thought because if they seriously,seriously played rugby they would be near unbeatable.

Doubt that will ever happen but if they get some of these backs they will be formidable.

Amazotheamazing

The US Eagles have been given a massive boost ahead of the USA Sevens with the news that flying wing Takudzwa 'Zee' Ngwenya will join the squad for the San Diego tournament.

Ngwenya scored two tries in last year's Rugby World Cup in France and is best remembered for rounding international Player of the Year Bryan Habana to score under posts against the Springboks, a try that was later rubber-stamped as international Try of the Year.

Since the World Cup, Ngwenya has won a professional contract with Biarritz, who play in France's Top 14 and the Heineken Cup. USA Sevens coach Al Caravelli met with Biarritz boss, former French wing Patrice Lagisquet, who granted Ngwenya permission to play in San Diego.

"I wanted to be here because it's our home event and we're trying to show the American public that rugby's a good sport and we want to do that here at home," said Ngwenya.
"We have a good shot, a good team so our goal is to beat South Africa, beat England [in the pools on day one], get some points, reach the Cup quarter finals and see what happens from there."
The USA started the 2007/08 Sevens season slowly in Dubai in December but, with Ngwenya added to their ranks, reached the Cup quarter finals for the first time in George a week later. He scored three tries in the tournament, including one against Samoa, whom the USA beat for the first time to reach the Plate final.
Ngwenya is one of five Rugby World Cup players included in the USA Sevens squad, joining Todd Clever, Chris Wyles, Thretton Palamo and Valanese Malifa. All four played in the New Zealand International Sevens in Wellington last weekend, where the Eagles beat Kenya to claim the Shield title ahead of their home event.

"This is the largest rugby event that's held in our country," said USA Sevens coach Al Caravelli, "and it's in the middle of a dual season and we know lots of people are coming to watch us at the weekend.
Having plucked Ngwenya from sporting obscurity and launched him on his way, Caravelli is confident that the country holds the potential to produce many more rugby players like him.
"When we train at the Olympic training centre they have a big database where an athlete can type in 'I run the 100 metres in 10.2 seconds but I didn't qualify for the Olympics, I weigh this much. What other sports can I play?'" said Caravelli.
"I've found over a thousand athletes that can run 10.2 seconds at one hundred metres and weigh over 200 pounds. I don't know if they can catch and pass yet but if they can see the atmosphere at a Wellington, a Dubai or a Hong Kong Sevens, and we can attract those types of athletes then we can continue to promote the sport in the United States."

dc69

that is insane.

Amazotheamazing

Yep, a few hundred Lomu's just waiting for a chance to hit the 7's circuit.

Same as Vardell really, he's started off as a sprinter with Leicester, now he's a really fast rugby player. Skills can be worked on, provided they aren't absolutely useless.

irishbucsfan

Devin Hester is an interesting example. Coming out of college he was obviously an excellent return man but there were questions about what he could actually contribute to an NFL team, because he played in a lot of different positions in college and never really hammered one down, he played both corner back and wide reciever, he still hasnt really featured at either of those positions in the NFL. I'd doubt if he could make it playing rugby.

Just on the point of what position would work where, the Americans would be covered from 12-15 and from 4-8. In the center you'd be taking the running backs and the Safeties, on the wings and at fullback you'd be taking the corner backs and wide recievers and at 4-8 you'd be taking the Tight Ends (probably would work best as locks) and Linebackers (6-8). Id say that theyd have no problem supplying front row players either.

There was a guy speaking before, either on the radio or in the paper, who claimed that one day rugby will go professional in America, and 5 years later they'll be an unstoppable force in world rugby. He's probably right.

dc69

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Devin Hester is an interesting example. Coming out of college he was obviously an excellent return man but there were questions about what he could actually contribute to an NFL team, because he played in a lot of different positions in college and never really hammered one down, he played both corner back and wide reciever, he still hasnt really featured at either of those positions in the NFL. I'd doubt if he could make it playing rugby.

He can catch the ball and run,if he sorted kicking,which wouldnt be very hard then he is a fullback.

They wouldnt have defence,so they would have to outscore the opponents,but with their team of lomu's they wont have much trouble:D

Ulstermell0

I agree that there is some major untapped talent there, but would it really be good for rugby in the US to be known as the graveyard for NFL failures?

eoin2nc

For Americans to play rugby:

1. They would have to learn to play 'on-the-fly' they couldnt stop every three seconds to call plays

2. They would have to learn how to attck AND defend and not have two different teams to do it

3. They would have to fitten up, because they wouldnt be stopping every 3 seconds

4. TV wouldnt back it because they wouldnt be able to get ads in every few minutes

Stev_o

Funny enough all this talk remembered me this tribute video of Dan Lyle, used to play college NFL moved to Engerland took up rugby to keep fit and turned into the best No8 around the 1998/1999

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=35e1qmZVE7g

MAKE SURE TO WATCH THE VIDEO AT 1.14

Stev_o

dc69 wrote: »

Imo nfl backs would be more than fit enough and good enough to play rugby

Your telling me,this guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2tY0c7d0Ek&feature=related

and more like him,would be able to play in the backline.He makes any rugby player on the planet look slow.

They make rugby fullbacks look like jokes.

The guy who kicks the ball couldnt play.

You would have no out half,scrum half,hooker.

Locks,doubtfull

The rest could all be adapted.

Fu*k sake thats just insane he'd be the one of the greatest Sevens players if he ever made the switch.

Problems though for people like him would be the fact that the space they use is gained by other players (there blockers) thats not going to happen in rugby a gap will be there for a split second and it would be gone.
Also there willingness to run would cause most managers to have a heart attack now tbh i wouldnt care id love to see this lad counter attack anytime he got the ball but theres going to be situations where he have to kick rather then force a run and cost your team points.

Interesting to note that the US is actually best rugby team in the world in Olympic terms. When rugby was a Olympic sport they won in each time now granted most countries but in club sides blah blah but you can see they were willing enough to put a highly trained professional team to win it.

If the game goes professional in the US and if its succesfull it wouldnt take them long to become one of the Big 8 family since their player base would be the largest in the world.

dc69

Stev_o wrote: »

Fu*k sake thats just insane he'd be the one of the greatest Sevens players if he ever made the switch.

Problems though for people like him would be the fact that the space they use is gained by other players (there blockers) thats not going to happen in rugby a gap will be there for a split second and it would be gone.
Also there willingness to run would cause most managers to have a heart attack now tbh i wouldnt care id love to see this lad counter attack anytime he got the ball but theres going to be situations where he have to kick rather then force a run and cost your team points.

Interesting to note that the US is actually best rugby team in the world in Olympic terms. When rugby was a Olympic sport they won in each time now granted most countries but in club sides blah blah but you can see they were willing enough to put a highly trained professional team to win it.

If the game goes professional in the US and if its succesfull it wouldnt take them long to become one of the Big 8 family since their player base would be the largest in the world.

You might like this guy aswell.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4IJ17ODo_s

He is only 18 or 19 and is gona play for michagan state college next year.He can run the 100m in around 10.5 and is probably the only white running back in years that could be exceptional,one of the greatest natural athelites I have ever seen.

Youll see in the vid,what i mean!:)

It would be unbelievable for rugby,if they got some of these guys.

The weights and stuff these guys do when they are young is ridiculous,at 18 he can bench 166kg's

Imagine this guy as a 13.